If you haven't watched his videos, you should. The dude is a masterful troll, probably a member here and is hilarious. He's a big GMRS guy. I don't think he hates amateur radio, but I think he despises the Karens in ham radio. Which we all know there are tons.

He's a hoot to watch. Good info as well.

Lots of good, no nonsense info.

He's got a huge grudge against licensed hams for some reason.

Most of what he says about using non-type accepted radios for GMRS is true.  No one will ever know.

I also agree that it's silly that hams freak out when someone asks how to unlock a radio or do a "mars/cap mod".

Having the capability to do something illegal isn't the same as committing a crime.  

If I ever buy a new radio from one of the places that offers the mod without requiring credentials, I'll get it.  Just because I like to know it's possible.  I barely key up as it is.  I sure as heck am not going to transmit out of band on purpose.

But I have long believed that if hams can be trusted to stay within their license privileges, they can be trusted to operate their equipment on "license by rule" bands like FRS and CB, by using the allocated frequencies, power and antenna limits.

I don't think it's so much a grudge against hams in general, but the annoying karen hams. We all know the type. You ask for the common color of the ocean and they respond to you about the fall of the Roman empire and it's affect on grain cultivations all the while screeching about random blurbs of nothing in a lengthy essay of saltiness. Like everything else, some of the people in this hobby bring the scorn on us. The legions of assholes, unsavory drunks and weirdo's who lack basic hygiene, not to mention basic social skills, also make it hard.

Why not DIY? It's usually not hard on most radios, though newer surface mount ones can be a bear (FT5DR was easy, FTM-400 was a bit more tricky).

Agreed 100%. I've been soured by the sad hams in a big way. I'm so frigging tired of them to the point that I've not keyed up at all locally in quite a while. And they wonder why the hobby has tanked.

His videos are great.  Thanks to him, I bought 6 Wuxuon radios as they were released.  Don’t really need them.  They’re like the Olight of the radio world.

Attached File




One of his points which I believe is correct is that most hams are involved in ham radio as a hobby. Most GMRS users just want a radio they can use to communicate with someone.

Yep waiting on the GX now. It will be my most expensive radio. LOL

Well 2m/440 is dead around here anyway. But yeah I do know what you mean. Luckily there's HF.
Absolutely and that's ok. Some amateurs feel it necessary to bring people into the hobby. It isn't a cult and we don't win a toaster. If someone wants to get licensed we should help them. But coming across like a pushy salesman is just gonna annoy people. It would annoy me. He also talks about a superiority thing and that does exist. It's very real. With some amateurs anyway.

The FT-65R was super easy.  Things like the FT-817ND look a little harder to achieve.  When you start getting into disassembling the front control panel it's a little unnerving.

I've already voided the warranty on my FT-450D with an IF tap (well its old enough to be out of warranty anyway).

I saved all the mod instructions I could find for the radios in case I ever decided to do it.  But places like gigaparts will do it and you keep your warranty.

Wasn't difficult. Just needed a magnifying glass and a steady hand.

So, these 'sad hams' are mostly on 2M/440? I have never bothered with those bands, so haven't heard any of this. No idea if my area is that way. I like HF.

I think they're everywhere.

There are a few really sad hams on arfcom.

The ft-65r is super easy. It's just a process and Viola it's open.

Yes. Yes there are.

Was not familiar with that YT channel. Finally, someone who is clear, concise, to the point, and speaks the truth.

My fav's so far:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_Fq9p2jVbg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3blsD98-ho

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQc02jc_uPI

I did not embed on purpose.

These videos could answer 90% of the questions of nearly every GD leaker that comes on this sub-forum. We just need the video where he discusses "how far can I talk". He must have one, but three videos was enough for me.

I am sure that he is in arfcommer, given that he uses techmats as his background while reviewing and given many subtle references that seem to originate around here- I.e.  “basement dweller” and “mom’s basement” and Cheetos references.

I've related my own experience with local hams.  I wouldn't call them sad hams so much as "repeater turf warriors".

If you know anything about repeaters and frequency coordination, you'll understand where this stems from.  The general idea is that there are more hams who want to set up repeaters than there are pairs of frequencies available.  This may or may not actually be true for several reasons.

But it is important to know that the FCC rules do not specify any limits, nor do they specify any particular allocation for repeater frequencies, offset, shift direction, etc.  And the FCC doesn't coordinate them either.

Among amateurs, there is a gentleman's agreement that you will use the regional frequency coordinator, and if there are no available repeater pairs, too bad, so sad.  If you didn't get there first, you are expected to simply use the existing repeaters and refrain from setting up your own.

It is in this environment that I mentioned wanting to set up an APRS iGate at a local club meeting.  I was immediately pounced on by one of the younger members, claiming the are has enough repeater coverage and we don't need any more.

This guy was in such a hurry to make sure I knew there was no way I could possibly set up my own repeater, that he heard "digipeater" when I actually said "iGate".  If you know the difference, you'll know that an iGate does not even transmit.  All it does is report received packets to the internet.  In my part of the region, you won't get into aprs.fi unless you are running a 25W mobile radio.  One of the little half watt APRS trackers often won't be heard by any of the digipearers in the area.  It's the perfect use case for an iGate.

Anyhow, that was the last club meeting I went to.  I never did set up the iGate, deciding instead that I will just put in a straight up digipeater or UHF repeater one day because my license is as good as his, and I do what I want.

Yes, there already is FM repeater coverage here.  But through the use of tone or digital squelch and selecting the right pair, it's easy to avoid interference because the local club's system of linked repeaters is silent for multiple hours at a time every day.

So that's my experience with repeater turf warriors.  Yes, I get that if every ham who wanted to be a repeater admin put one up, it would be chaos.  But at least there would be people actually talking on VHF/UHF instead of the current situation in my area where we have near total saturation of repeater coverage and nobody is using them.

On the flip side of that, there are folks who "just want to use radios" without gettinging into it as a hobby.  It is tiresome seeing the same questions over and over again because people want a baofeng.  If you ask what they can be used for, I'll tell you the truth that there are no frequencies you can legally use a baofeng on that don't require a license, and that they aren't type accepted for GMRS/FRS use.  Nevertheless, I have baofengs and have those frequencies programmed into mine.  I think it's more the irritation of "I bought a baofeng, what now" than anything else.

I have a friend who I have been helping to set up a GMRS repeater.  He is actually interested in radio as a hobby, but not interested enough to take the test.  I think he will eventually run into a local ham who is a stickler for the rules (like the guy that almost panicked when I said "iGate"), but he will have to learn that the hard way.

I do like to let people know what to expect so they aren't surprised in the event they do get some bored, retired ham with no life come DF them and report them.  These are like the official observers who send cards in the mail.  They live for the "gotcha", and pointing that out is useful to anyone wanting to play with radios.

Why would a ham want to put up a repeater?  That has always been my question for over 50 years and I have never heard a good answer.

The more repeaters you have in an area the LESS VHF/UHF activity you will have. This is due to the Balkanization principle. When you spread out on dozens of repeater then no one ever has to speak with anyone else. Each repeater king has his own repeater and never has to rub elbows with the peasants nor get to know them. He can sit proudly on his repeater frequency and bump the squelch once in a while just to hear the squelch tail and be happy knowing that it is "HIS" repeater. Tell me I am wrong and show examples.

He is what 50+ years of being a sad old fart ham has taught me about the numbers of repeaters and activity levels in my area.

Back when I was a "young-un" there was exactly two repeaters you had any chance of hitting:  The 146.94 in Springfield Mo. and the 146.94 in Pittsburg Kansas .  yeah, both on the same frequency and both open squelch.  Both just as active as he77 almost 24/7 365. If you got in 2 overs during your drive home you were lucky. It was that busy. Roundtables were the norm, and if you gave a call at 3am. in the morning some one would answer you.

I lived near the middle and about 30 miles from Springfield, but about 50+ miles from Pittsburg Kansas.  But the one in Kansas was over 700 foot tall. Finally the Springfield group got tired of me hitting the SGF machine when talking to Pittsburg even with a beam I still opened its squelch. Remember they were on the same frequency and PL while it was invented, was unheard in our ham circles. No rigs had it.  So Springfield went to 146.91 . That solved some problems.  But now you had to choose which one to listen to. But still all good. Those were the heydays of 2 meter FM in the early 70's. Travelers were always greeted by hordes of friendly folks that all knew each other and were welcome to greet a stranger. We never went anywhere without a 2 meter rig. Ever.

Then later on some people wanted their own repeaters. and the splintering began. We were not all one happy family any more. Long story short, dozens of small repeaters sprang up. Instead of having two large regional repeaters which served wide areas, now you had dozens of "little sticks" that served very small areas. And the people fragmented. Soon in a few years you could Id even on one of the big regional repeaters and never get an answer. Only a few people monitored any one repeater if you were lucky. You could talk to the trustee or his wife. But not much else. The coverage areas sucked. The money pouring in to maintain the large regional repeaters failed, The tower sites were lost, the maintenance and the people to do it failed. Everything went to hell. And it remains that way all across the USA today. You can travel hundreds of mile and key up repeaters and identify, and no one will answer you. Your not in the Clique. You don't belong, who gives a rat's about you.

As near as I can tell from the bitching and moaning over on E-ham, about traveling thousands of road miles bumping up hundreds of repeaters this is a problem in most regions.  Some areas may be better, but many complain.

So why do some of us old sad hams not want to see a new repeater of any kind go up?  Because it means more Balkanizations. More and more splintering of a once big happy heathy family to the sad state we are in now. A two meter rig once a necessity in your automobile or belt is now darn near worthless. No one to talk to. No group to join. Repeater clubs used to have hundreds of members, now might have 3 or 4. I rarely ever turn on my 2 meter rigs anymore. I run HF at home and in my truck. At least there is always someone to talk to there.

So take this advice or not. Call it a rant or solid advice. But for God's sake, please don't put up another repeater. We should be taking them down daily not putting them up.  Why do people still ask about how to go about putting up a repeater?  I don't know. I just shake my head is disgust. I just don't understand why anyone would want "his" own repeater, and never did.

@K0UA

That's a very interesting, and seems logical, theory. It makes perfect sense. Around here, they blame cell phones as killing VHF/UHF. But I dunno. As said in this thread we are in this as a hobby. Meaning, I'll talk on the radio instead of calling just to talk on the radio. So it doesn't hold water for me that cell phones killed 2m/440. In our area, three counties and 275k people, there are easily 15-20 repeaters I bet. I'd have to look. We are very close to Louisiana so you can count those too most days as Sulphur and Lake Charles/Westlake is only about 35 miles away.

I think you missed the point I was making.

For many hams, and probably especially for technician licenses, setting up and managing a repeater is a sort of goal to aspire to.  Not because they are wanting to siphon off users from existing repeaters, but because they want the pride and satisfaction of building something cool that works.  

If I built my own repeater, it would get zero use, because I don't have any ham friends to talk to locally anyway.  Nevertheless, as a hobbyist I want to try tuning my own cavity filters and setting up a repeater controller and testing its function, just for the sheer fun of it.  Just to prove to myself I  can do it.   Which is most of the fun of any radio project I dig into.

This is a project that many of the older hams did get to participate in, and I think newer hams are resistant to the idea that they should just abandon the idea of ever doing it.  If repeater questions are going to be on the exams, then you are going to have to expect hams to want to set them up themselves, particularly given that the FCC doesn't prohibit it.

Another significant reason for dead repeaters are the admins that run off new users.  If you own an open repeater but you only answer calls from your buddies, no one new will stick around.   Also there are the repeater guys who bemoan the expense of renting tower space and maintaining the repeaters.  Well if there are other guys who'd happily fund the entire project out of pocket just for the privilege of owning a repeater, maybe the complainers should step aside and give up their repeater pairs.  But they won't do it.  

That's because they do enjoy being a repeater admin, and they'd probably pay out of pocket themselves if club dues didn't cover it.

Anyhow the point I'm making is if any new ham says they want to set up a repeater, we should offer to help, not try to discourage them.  Better that they actually work with a frequency coordinator and do it right than fumble onto the scene with a poorly-configured automatic QRM machine.

It goes back to the elitist bit that people mentioned earlier in the thread.  Even other hams aren't immune to it, let alone unlicensed people.

This right here. The trustee I dealt with is a well known first class prick, who lord's it over people.  I'm not dealing with him. Oh well.

I think Randy is supposed to join our Friday Happy Hour livestream tonight (6/17/22).

Link left cold on purpose.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nME1vfo1G9A


mm

Wait... Ham Radio 2.0 that you?

The other thing about the territoriality is that okay, so we have wall to wall full quieting repeater coverage in an area covering hundreds of square miles.  But you can listen to this big linked repeater system all day, and except for the 2 weekly nets and the occasional out of town travelers, they are silent for 23 out of 24 hours, and probably a third of that is kerchunking.

In areas where there simply isn't anyone using the existing repeaters in a meaningful way for the vast majority of the day, the chances of a small footprint repeater causing any kind of interference are extremely low, and if it ever did, it would only be because people were actually *gasp* using it!

I suspect there are some repeater owners who are secretly excited when someone kerchunks their rigidly curated machines, because QRM is more fun and interesting than nothing at all.

That was my thought too ..

There are a lot of HAM's that are assholes.

I honestly can say I have never met any IRL or on the radio, except for maybe one on the radio. I would not really call him a karen, he just like to transmit for a very long time on an AM net and he basically has a 15 minute conversation with himself. People end up talking over him because it’s a net, not a monologue.

I don’t think it is. We are not that far away. I listen to 2M a lot, mostly in my truck, but at home too. I don’t do many 2 meter nets, just once in a while but down south of you, Hans on 2 meters are a friendly bunch. There are 2 clubs in the area and they are very friendly and the bridge between the 2 clubs is ARES, mostly held together by the regional director who is a great guy. I emailed him showing an interest, next thing a I knew we were talking ARES over coffee at Dunkin. He is somewhat sad since he lost his fiancé in one of the towers on 9/11 and has cancer but he is not a sad ham, he does a great job with ARES and is a genuinely nice guy.

There are several repeaters that are linked by RF in the area and your area, talk on one and you talk on all of them. Get on one of the smaller repeaters in the morning, through out your call at the right time when they are all arranging where they are going for breakfast, and you get invited to join them for breakfast and get a list of all the local 2 meter nets and to please join them.

I was encouraged to become a VE when I took the Extra test, and when I show up sporadically, I am always welcomed with a cup of coffee and they make sure I participate so I can log the VE session even when there are 8 VEs and 1 test.

There are a lot of local 2 meter nets by me, every day has at least one. Like I said, not really my thing unless I am mobile,  it they are all a welcoming bunch of guys even to those that don’t participate that much, like me. I almost never go to club meetings, but do show up online for ARES training once in a while and even though the training crams 10 minutes worth of info into 1 hour, they are all great people.

This. One of the bigger local clubs is comprised almost exclusively of assholes and old farts. I got a friend into amateur radio and his first experience on the air was those shitheads giving him snark. Another dicksqueezer from their club, on a different machine, jumped our asses for using MDC1200. This hobby is 60% shithead self-righteous know-it-alls, 20% weirdo neckbeards, 10% cool prepper gunbros, and 10% totally bodacious fully legit digital mode dorks.

The hobby hasn't tanked. There are more licensed hams than ever before with a annual rate of 30k net positive.

I called the FCC and calculated the figures a few months ago. The math is in a thread here somewhere.

That's a fairly accurate breakdown of percentages.

ETA: It's archived, but about half way down. https://www.ar15.com/forums/general/Why-are-many-Ham-Radio-operators-the-FUDDs-of-the-electromagnetic-spectrum-/5-2540231/&page=3

No.

Should I invite Jason to Arf?

mm

Why yes. I have a bone to pick with him.

Sum-bitch causes me to spend money. And I want to pick his brain on Flex Radios.

Sure. He's a nice guy the couple times I've met him and his videos are pretty good.

Sure. He is a gun and radio guy and would fit in well.
There are a few guys on the tube that would probably fit in here.

Keep thinking that. When I checked the list locally I was amazed at the numbers, the numbers of people with their license and NEVER use it.

I think a lot of people don't know what to do with it once they get it. Some folks just aren't rag chewers and don't see the point in talking to their buddy around the corner on a radio. Which I can understand. I think it's neat personally, but not everyone feels that way. That being said, it's hugely important for clubs and other hams to reach out and show them various aspects in this hobby so they can see if they find something that fits for them. They may not find anything at all. I'm into doing POTA, so I try to grab new hams here when I can and take them on an activation and see if it's something they like. We've got some hard core satellite guys locally who I wish would jump in and do the same.

I bet a lot are preppers who got their tech licenses to be legal and just stuck a radio in a bug out bag and forgot about it.

I think lots of amateur radio people get their license, realize it’s not really USEFUL for anything practical outside of far edge cases, and then just let it go.

If the US had an HF framework available for civ use that wasn’t limited to analog, and if digital was legal for GMRS, those folks would never have bothered with an amateur radio license.

I've noticed a bunch of HAMs are into guns.  While chatting with the ARFcommers yesterday some random old guy in NY jumped in and started talking guns with me.  I hear gun stuff mentioned regularly on the local 2m nets.

It does cross paths a lot. I think a lot of busy brain tinkerers get into both hobbies. Since you can do a lot of experimenting, building and generally keeping your brain focused and doing something. For me I grew up around guns and mostly cars/drag racing. I played with cars in my teens into my 20s, but it got too expensive so I just focused on guns. Then started actually making efforts to get into radio in the last few years. Probably would've done it a lot sooner had I known someone involved when I was younger.

I got my tech because my son had been a ham since high school and was bugging me to get my license. Then I went out to MT,  visited arfcomer that I had had drinks with before and he showed me his shack and antenna, even though I had no idea what I was looking at ( You know who you are )

So they talked me into it for emcom reasons to go along with all the other stuff I have set back. So I took the tech test.

Then another arfcomer told me about a particular vanity call sign that was available that was a really good fit for me, but it required Extra. So I went and took the General, then Extra, and applied for the vanity and got it.

Then while listening on VHF a couple months later I thought to myself

“self, you have HF authorization, you should get an HF radio, so I researched and picked up an IC-7300. When I saw the price of antennas, I decided to save money and bought a 20 meter dipole at HRO and made my first contact. On with a ham in Texas and talked to someone I didn’t know for an hour. Then I added a 40 meter wire, and saw how much of a pain in the butt that was without an antenna analyzer, so got an MFJ, then added an 80 meter wire and the rest is the monster those 3 guys created.

I never intended to actually do anything with the ham license and I never intended to do HF, I just wanted that vanity call, but I unwittingly fell into a hobby I have been passionate about and have a full blown case of BRD and HWD
( black radio disease and high wire disease )

So I understand why someone would get a tech and then end their ham radio hobby right there.

I got my tech license because I was building hobby drones and wanted to fly them FPV.  At the time in 2015, you had to have an amateur license to use the necessary frequencies and power levels.  You'd put your call sign on a landing skid or something in view of the camera for ID.

I got a baofeng because of the occasional thread here.  Then I realized there wasn't much repeater activity so I got my general and then bought an FT-450D and eventually an 857D and 817ND.

I still rarely use them because I have some kind of strange reluctance to go all out with an antenna, but my wife gave me the okay for a mast so I am probably going to put something up.  Might just do a flag pole with a wire antenna that doesn't need guying.

NotARubicon and HRCC went out together. They're interesting videos. Both went into it with an I'm not trying to change your opinion mentality.

Randy hits the points well when he talks about a lot of hams the radio is hobby versus for them it's just a tool for other hobbies. That's an important point that I think both sides miss. Of course, I've yet to see any animosity anywhere except on YouTube/internet.

I went to one club nearby initially. It was a larger club, and because of that, no one really engaged me. I even joined and was at a few more meetings after that but still, no one aside from a person or two sitting near me did engage me much.

I went another club. Much smaller, about 50 members all told but active at meetings was closer to a dozen. Instant engagement. I felt welcomed. When they asked about doing presentations for some digital modes, I volunteered to do a presentation on certain modes that I knew something about. They had zero issues with it and there was some tacit encouragement.

Wildly different outcomes and it makes a world of difference. Having a good support group makes it seem like a bother or an enjoyable pasttime.


That was something discussed the other day. Hard to do with remote VEs, but in-person VEs should have a radio, preferably a mobile, or radio room they can send the new licensee over to. Have them get on the air. Show them what the hobby's about. Many new people get a license and have no clue what to do with it. Hell, I'm still finding new things that are done with radios. While talking on the DMR net a few months ago I learned about SMSGTE as a good example.

There's so much to this hobby it's almost overwhelming. That's why I just suggest they do something and see if it sticks. If not, move on to something else.

I've brought unlicensed folks with me before too and they just use my call.