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Posted: 7/10/2020 11:33:25 AM EDT
[Last Edit: rssc]
Guys looking for suggestions here. I took my boat with a 2000 merc 90 2 stroke out yesterday. After getting on plane I heard a continuous alarm tone sound. I was at about 3500 to 4000 rpm. I immediately dropped the boat to 2000 to 2500 rpm and thealarm went away after 30 seconds or so. The motor is pissing and is running fine. After doing some trial and error, I found that at anything below 3000 to 3200 rpm I could run without alarm. At 3200 to 3500 or above I would get an alarm. The alarm took longer to sound if the boat had previously been turned off. Based on what I've read this seems to be temp related. Should I be looking at the impeller and poppet valve?
Thanks for any input. |
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Originally Posted By rssc: Guys looking for suggestions here. I took my boat with a 2000 merc 90 2 stroke out yesterday. After getting on plane I heard a continuous alarm tone sound. I was at about 3500 to 4000 rpm. I immediately dropped the boat to 2000 to 2500 rpm and thealarm went away after 30 seconds or so. The motor is pissing and is running fine. After doing some trial and error, I found that at anything below 3000 to 3200 rpm I could run without alarm. At 3200 to 3500 or above I would get an alarm. The alarm took longer to sound if the boat had previously been turned off. Based on what I've read this seems to be temp related. Should I be looking at the impeller and poppet valve? Thanks for any input. View Quote Might want to pull the temp switch and check it in water to make sure it closing at the right temp. |
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"Be safe!" says the guy running two strokes on alcohol & lighter fluid... :-) backbencher
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Could be the thermostat not opening all the way or obstructed by
debris. Poppet valve could be stuck open or partially open dumping cooling water into the midsection. It could also be that there is nothing really wrong with it per-say but there is a buildup of calcium around the area where the temp sender is located trapping heat. I experienced this on our old rental fleet. The cure is to remove the t-stat cover and poppet. Pour a little muriatic acid into the hole where the thermostat was. the acid will run down into the area where the temp sensor lives and clear the calcium from that area. This will allow the cooling water to draw the heat away from the sensor like intended. If you use the acid trick, be sure to rinse it well with fresh water before putting it back together. The above was written with the assumption the water pump is working properly. Another possibility is the water pump is ingesting exhaust gasses through the top of the impeller housing around the driveshaft or sucking air underneath the housing (bad gasket). When was the impeller changed last? |
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...behind every blade of grass...
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Originally Posted By KB7DX: Could be the thermostat not opening all the way or obstructed by debris. Poppet valve could be stuck open or partially open dumping cooling water into the midsection. It could also be that there is nothing really wrong with it per-say but there is a buildup of calcium around the area where the temp sender is located trapping heat. I experienced this on our old rental fleet. The cure is to remove the t-stat cover and poppet. Pour a little muriatic acid into the hole where the thermostat was. the acid will run down into the area where the temp sensor lives and clear the calcium from that area. This will allow the cooling water to draw the heat away from the sensor like intended. If you use the acid trick, be sure to rinse it well with fresh water before putting it back together. The above was written with the assumption the water pump is working properly. Another possibility is the water pump is ingesting exhaust gasses through the top of the impeller housing around the driveshaft or sucking air underneath the housing (bad gasket). When was the impeller changed last? View Quote Thank you for the response. The impeller was changed about 3 yrs ago. It is definitely due for a new one. |
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Originally Posted By PARover: Poppet valve is probably stuck closed so not getting the cooling at higher water pressure from the pump at higher RPMs. Or some blockage in the cooling system. Might want to pull the temp switch and check it in water to make sure it closing at the right temp. View Quote Thank you for the ijnfo! |
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Three year old impeller? Change it. Make sure the housing is in good
shape and not grooved up. KB's archived impeller thread |
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Originally Posted By KB7DX: Three year old impeller? Change it. Make sure the housing is in good shape and not grooved up. KB's archived impeller thread View Quote Thank ou KB7DX. I got the impeller kit and am going to give switching it out a shot. While I'm at it, I'm also going to change the gear oil in the lower unit. |
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I changed out the impeller but screwed something up. The boat is pissing. It's pissing with about as much velocity as it was before (but still seems like it might be a little weaker than it was 6 + months ago. Though that could just be my imagination.). Although the existing impeller was older (3 yrs) I didn't notice any kind of damage or rot. So as to what I screwed up, hopefully I didn't do any damage. The prop spins (not fast) when I start the boat in neutral on the mufs. So apparently the gearbox thinks I am in forward when the control thinks I am in neutral. I had a hell of a time getting the lower unit back on and think something may have shifted when trying. In helping my girlfriend also moved the throttle (it was in forward) while the lower unit was off the boat. I don't know if this misaligned something.
Did I royally screw something up? I can hear a small tick noise when I manually spin the prop. The prop will only spin clockwise with the boat off and shifter in neutral. It will not spin backwards. |
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Am I correct in that all I need to do is set the helm throttle to forward, neutral, or reverse and then set the lower unit (via the shift shaft gear) to the same thing? I believe the lower unit is already in forward. I do have the mercury manual but can't find where it states how to set the lower unit to forward, neutral, or reverse.
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That should have an ez shift gear case in it, so it is spring loaded into neutral.
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"Be safe!" says the guy running two strokes on alcohol & lighter fluid... :-) backbencher
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Originally Posted By PARover: That should have an ez shift gear case in it, so it is spring loaded into neutral. View Quote The lower unit is currently off the outboard. When I turn the prop clockwise it moves with a ticking noise. It will not turn counter clockwise. I don't think the gear case automatically resets to neutral, at least not from what I see (and my very limited knowledge). There is a shift shaft in the forward portion of the lower unit. I think that shaft can get manually turned to change the lower into neutral. I haven't done it yet, as I am hoping to verify this before proceeding (don't want to mess it up further). |
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when you turn the prop is the drive shaft turning?
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"Be safe!" says the guy running two strokes on alcohol & lighter fluid... :-) backbencher
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If you mean clockwise from the rear, that should be forward.
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"Be safe!" says the guy running two strokes on alcohol & lighter fluid... :-) backbencher
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oil infected? low/out of oil or bad sensor if so
eta: I see you changed the impeller, change the T-stat also when you change the impeller. |
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"What do I take in my coffee? Caffeine and hate... and sometimes whiskey."
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You can put the shifter handle in neutral, then rotate the splined shift shaft rod
on the lower in the "middle" detent and install the lower that way. It is harder to do because the driveshaft splines rarely line up with the crankshaft splines so you need a way to turn the driveshaft or turn the flywheel to align these splines. Most lower units should be removed in forward gear to facilitate rotating the driveshaft for alignment by turning the prop backwards. Turning the prop backwards will rotate the driveshaft and keep the lower unit locked in forward gear. If you turn the prop "forwards" there's a good chance it will "pop" out of gear which leads to shift shaft mis-alignment and shifting problems. Determining which way is forward on a typical Merc lower unit, turn the driveshaft clockwise looking from the top. If the prop rotates clockwise (right hand rotation) it's in forward. If it rotates counter-clockwise (left hand rotation) it's in reverse. If it doesn't rotate at all, it's in neutral. Some propellers will rotate slightly when the engine is running in neutral gear. This is due to the gear lube being stirred up by the pinion gear, kind of a fluid drive. Of course it won't propel the boat like that but don't stick your foot into it to try and stop it. |
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...behind every blade of grass...
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Originally Posted By KB7DX: You can put the shifter handle in neutral, then rotate the splined shift shaft rod on the lower in the "middle" detent and install the lower that way. It is harder to do because the driveshaft splines rarely line up with the crankshaft splines so you need a way to turn the driveshaft or turn the flywheel to align these splines. Most lower units should be removed in forward gear to facilitate rotating the driveshaft for alignment by turning the prop backwards. Turning the prop backwards will rotate the driveshaft and keep the lower unit locked in forward gear. If you turn the prop "forwards" there's a good chance it will "pop" out of gear which leads to shift shaft mis-alignment and shifting problems. Determining which way is forward on a typical Merc lower unit, turn the driveshaft clockwise looking from the top. If the prop rotates clockwise (right hand rotation) it's in forward. If it rotates counter-clockwise (left hand rotation) it's in reverse. If it doesn't rotate at all, it's in neutral. Some propellers will rotate slightly when the engine is running in neutral gear. This is due to the gear lube being stirred up by the pinion gear, kind of a fluid drive. Of course it won't propel the boat like that but don't stick your foot into it to try and stop it. View Quote Thanks or the detailed explanation. I took a pair of pliers and carefully tuned the shift shaft on the lower to the next detent. The prop now spins back and forth freely. Am I correct in assuming that to reinstall the lower unit, I now need to put the control at the helm in neutral, reattach the lower unit and gently spin the flywheel if there is a misalignment? Will the portion of the shifter shaft in the mid section of the outboard be in alignment due to the lower unit and shifter both being in neutral or is that not necessarily the case? Also based on how much flow of water I am seeing out of the pisser and the condition of the existing impeller, I don't think the new impeller fixed the issue. It is pissing but the stream doesnt seem as strong as what i remember it being even a month ago. Seems like I should also replace the thermostat and popet valve. Shold I remove the thermostat and put a little muratic acid in there while the lower unit is off the motor? |
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Originally Posted By rssc: Thanks or the detailed explanation. I took a pair of pliers and carefully tuned the shift shaft on the lower to the next detent. The prop now spins back and forth freely. Am I correct in assuming that to reinstall the lower unit, I now need to put the control at the helm in neutral, reattach the lower unit and gently spin the flywheel if there is a misalignment? Will the portion of the shifter shaft in the mid section of the outboard be in alignment due to the lower unit and shifter both being in neutral or is that not necessarily the case? Also based on how much flow of water I am seeing out of the pisser and the condition of the existing impeller, I don't think the new impeller fixed the issue. It is pissing but the stream doesnt seem as strong as what i remember it being even a month ago. Seems like I should also replace the thermostat and popet valve. Shold I remove the thermostat and put a little muratic acid in there while the lower unit is off the motor? View Quote With both in neutral the shift shaft should line up. The driveshaft splines may not though, I usually use a remote starter to bump the motor over while installing the lower unit if it doesn't line right up. Definitely pull the t-stat and poppet valve as I mentioned earlier. If there is a lot of corrosion yes muriatic acid is your friend. |
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"Be safe!" says the guy running two strokes on alcohol & lighter fluid... :-) backbencher
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With both being in neutral the lower can be installed. You will probably have to turn the flywheel
to align the driveshaft splines and you may have to fuss with the shift shaft a little to get those splines to align but it can be done. Have you made sure the pisser tube is clear? They like to become obstructed with spider webs, bugs and calcium. I use compressed air to blow back up the pee tube to clear them out. |
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...behind every blade of grass...
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I want to thank everyone for their help/input. It took a little finagling but I think the lower unit is on properly. With the boat in neutral, the prop spins with no resistance either way. With the boat in forward the prop moves CW with a ratchet sound. it does not move CCW. When in reverse the prop will move either way but with heavy resistance. The mercury manual states that this is normal (I figured reverse would be the opposite of forward but no).
The next thing I plan on doing is change the spark plugs, fuel filter, fuel/water separator, lower unit oil, replace the thermostat, poppet valve, and pour some muratic acid down where the hole where the thermostat goes. So about how much muratic acid should I pour down the hole? Do I immediately direct the water from a hose down the same hole? Should I give it a few minutes to work before using the hose? Also I got the Mercury service manual for my motor. The odd thing is, my SN is 0T0-18296 (2000 90ELPTO) however all the US serial numbers listed (at least in the fuel systems section) have start with 0G. I am not seeing any SN's that start with 0T. Am I just not seeing it? The manual isn't the easiest to read. I am trying to find out what parts I need to order for the fuel filter and thermostat/poppet replacement. Thanks again for all your help (everyone that has chimed in). I definitely could not do this with your help! |
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This impeller looks OK to me in my uneducated opinion. How does everyone else feel? It is the one I pulled out, about 3 years old.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1QuwXFXi4j5qz3OVfuGfMnuWcpntna-pP/view?usp=sharing |
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That impeller looks pretty good. Looks like it has had almost no run time
since last time it was replaced as the mold lines are still present on the leading edges of the impeller blades. It does have a slight "set" (curvature) to the blades but not real bad. Let the acid sit in the block for 30 seconds or so. Then rinse with lots of water. Repeat a few times. Trim the engine all the way in so the block is vertical so the acid runs down the inside of the water cover where the temp sensor lives. The poppet and thermostat don't need replacing unless there is damage to the poppet or the thermostat won't open or is stuck open or closed. You can test the thermostat by heating up a cup of water and suspending the t-stat in it and see if it opens. Heat water to about 160F and the t-stat should open easily. |
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...behind every blade of grass...
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I just pulled the poppet and thermostat. The thermostat looks really rough. The poppet looks good but there is a hole on the lower end of the socket where the poppet fits into. You can see it in the picture. It looks like the hole/opening is supposed to be there but I figured it makes sense to check that.
Thermostat socket Thermostat and poppet |
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Yes the thermostat looks pretty bad. Replace it. As long as the poppet's diaphragm
is intact with no holes or tears, and is plyable, it's OK. Make sure the poppet spring is OK and re-install. The hole (passageway) in the poppet socket is supposed to be there. This is where I pour acid into and you can see it will run down inside the block over the area where the temp sensor lives. Oh, remove that pebble/calcium chunk in the socket. |
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...behind every blade of grass...
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I have the same motor on my toon. 2001. My motor has a low oil alarm. It will go off intermittently when the oil is low while in motion .
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"What do I take in my coffee? Caffeine and hate... and sometimes whiskey."
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Originally Posted By Bubbagnoosh: I have the same motor on my toon. 2001. My motor has a low oil alarm. It will go off intermittently when the oil is low while in motion . View Quote I'm pretty sure mine is specifically related to temperature as I have done some testing and am positive that the alarm comes on when I hit an rpm for a given amount if time on the tachometer. Also my oil was about 3/4 or more full when it first happened. |
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Originally Posted By KB7DX: Yes the thermostat looks pretty bad. Replace it. As long as the poppet's diaphragm is intact with no holes or tears, and is plyable, it's OK. Make sure the poppet spring is OK and re-install. The hole (passageway) in the poppet socket is supposed to be there. This is where I pour acid into and you can see it will run down inside the block over the area where the temp sensor lives. Oh, remove that pebble/calcium chunk in the socket. View Quote Thank you for the info. Very very helpful. That little pebble was a very small sea shell, and is not out of the engine. |
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A 2-Smoke? Have you checked the oil in the reservoir tank?
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I'm not really an expert.... but I play one on the Internet.
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Low oil alarm on that engine will be a constant tone when the key is on.
It's not RPM dependent. |
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...behind every blade of grass...
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I have a new thermostat coming but it's late. In the meantime I figured it might be interesting to test the one I have. I first cleaned it off then threw it in a pot of water The linked picture shows the thermostat at at 119.1 degrees. is the amount of closure shown indicative of a bad thermostat? This is more just for my curiosity as I still intend on putting the new one in when I get it. The spring on the thermostat didn't fully compress till about 145 degrees.
thermostat in pot of water |
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Requested access via Gurgle for that link.
Without seeing the pic, if it's wide open at 140F and closes completely at ambient temps, it's OK. I would still replace it. It's cheap insurance and gives you a baseline on what has ben done and when. The temp sensor doesn't sound until it sees about 200F. |
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Sorry about Google. I thought the permissions were set to be wide open for that file. Is the thermostat open when the spring is fully compressed? If so sounds like the thermostat is working however I did need to clean it as it was filthy. I am still going to put in the new one.
I found a video of a guy on Youtube where he found the cause of his overheating issue to be the plastic ring that site into the socket where the poppet valve sits. The plastic ring in mine looks fine and I don't see any breaks or cracks. The poppet also looks good. I plan on leaving the poppet as-is. Should I be looking at anything with regards to the poppet? I have cleaned some corrosion/salt out of the hole where the poppet and thermostat sits. |
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Originally Posted By rssc: I changed out the impeller but screwed something up. The boat is pissing. It's pissing with about as much velocity as it was before (but still seems like it might be a little weaker than it was 6 + months ago. Though that could just be my imagination.). Although the existing impeller was older (3 yrs) I didn't notice any kind of damage or rot. So as to what I screwed up, hopefully I didn't do any damage. The prop spins (not fast) when I start the boat in neutral on the mufs. So apparently the gearbox thinks I am in forward when the control thinks I am in neutral. I had a hell of a time getting the lower unit back on and think something may have shifted when trying. In helping my girlfriend also moved the throttle (it was in forward) while the lower unit was off the boat. I don't know if this misaligned something. Did I royally screw something up? I can hear a small tick noise when I manually spin the prop. The prop will only spin clockwise with the boat off and shifter in neutral. It will not spin backwards. View Quote Drop the lower unit. The controls and lower unit should be in forward gear when you put it back together. Make sure you grease all of the splines and that you have the water tube stabbed correctly. |
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Originally Posted By rssc: I'm pretty sure mine is specifically related to temperature as I have done some testing and am positive that the alarm comes on when I hit an rpm for a given amount if time on the tachometer. Also my oil was about 3/4 or more full when it first happened. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By rssc: Originally Posted By Bubbagnoosh: I have the same motor on my toon. 2001. My motor has a low oil alarm. It will go off intermittently when the oil is low while in motion . I'm pretty sure mine is specifically related to temperature as I have done some testing and am positive that the alarm comes on when I hit an rpm for a given amount if time on the tachometer. Also my oil was about 3/4 or more full when it first happened. Oil is an intermittent tone, heat is a solid tone. Same warning horn, different sensors on each system. |
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I have some good news and some bad news. The good is that I did as suggested (by KB7DX ) and am optimistic that the overheat issue is fixed. I have not run the boat in the water but the telltale is noticeably stronger while on the hose (like it used to be) and the water is cooler. I put a new thermostat and poppet in the boat. The bad news is I can see a barely noticeable hairline crack on the thermostat cover. (I think this happened when I put it on the engine) I do not see any water coming out of the cover on the side or where the crack is. I am only able to feel the crack when running my nail over it. It is around the top bolt. I'm assuming I need to replace the cover. Is this correct? The number on the part is 42885-c2. Is this part obtainable. I did a quick search but didn't see anything.
The results of using the muratic acid was eye opening. I used a small coke bottle filled with acid. Dumped 1/4 of the bottle in at a time and let it sit for 20 to 30 seconds. After that I thoroughly rinsed it out with the hose. https://drive.google.com/file/d/1UozR6th-1e7eHRfZSAk1A-_6jkGCy9b_/view?usp=drivesdk |
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Originally Posted By RickH11: Oil is an intermittent tone, heat is a solid tone. Same warning horn, different sensors on each system. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By RickH11: Originally Posted By rssc: Originally Posted By Bubbagnoosh: I have the same motor on my toon. 2001. My motor has a low oil alarm. It will go off intermittently when the oil is low while in motion . I'm pretty sure mine is specifically related to temperature as I have done some testing and am positive that the alarm comes on when I hit an rpm for a given amount if time on the tachometer. Also my oil was about 3/4 or more full when it first happened. Oil is an intermittent tone, heat is a solid tone. Same warning horn, different sensors on each system. This is correct. I was wrong above. Assuming it has the low oil sensor module (which it probably does) then you will get beeping in intervals. Solid tone for overheat. What is the serial number OP? This will help in the future because there are many variations of that same engine. ETA -- The cracked housing should be replaced as soon as practical. It's not going to hurt anything to run it till you get a new one. I would however, if you haven't already, pull the bolt near the crack and coat it marine grease (we use Mercury Perfect Seal gasket sealer) to keep it from corroding if the cracked housing is weeping water into that area. |
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...behind every blade of grass...
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In case it was not already mentioned. Sometimes the oil float in the tank starts to sink and causes a low oil alarm.
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Originally Posted By KB7DX: This is correct. I was wrong above. Assuming it has the low oil sensor module (which it probably does) then you will get beeping in intervals. Solid tone for overheat. What is the serial number OP? This will help in the future because there are many variations of that same engine. ETA -- The cracked housing should be replaced as soon as practical. It's not going to hurt anything to run it till you get a new one. I would however, if you haven't already, pull the bolt near the crack and coat it marine grease (we use Mercury Perfect Seal gasket sealer) to keep it from corroding if the cracked housing is weeping water into that area. View Quote What I am experiencing is definitely a solid tone. It does not beep or sound in intervals. The engine serial number is 0T0-18296 (2000 90ELPTO) I cleaned all the bolts of old nasty gunk and coated them with Mercury 2-4-C marine grease. Hopefully this is OK? As long as I can find a new cover, I should be able to replace it in a couple weeks. Thanks again or the help! I really appreciate it. |
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Guys, another question (thanks so much for the time).
I pulled the spark plugs out of my motor. They are about 4 years old. Should I reuse the existing plugs or buy new? If I should reuse, how do I clean then? A while back I ran across a few youtube videos where people would wipe down the plug then heat the business end with a propane torch to burn off any sediment. I've also seen people use carb cleaner and sand paper. What is the best way to clean the plugs on this boat...? As a side note, this engine seems to run pretty well at high RPM (before the cooling issue popped up) but has idle'd a little rough and is a little jerky when first started and at lower RPM. This is at least for the past couple years (ever since I really started paying attention to how the outboard runs). I've read that this motor being unbalanced 3 cylinder is always going to run like this and its baked in the cake. My thought was that changing the plugs (or cleaning them) might improve how the outboard runs. I also have a can of Mercury Power Tune that I had thought about using, definitely with the old plugs. The manual recommends Power Tune as a regular maintenance item. Does anyone have any input on the plugs and also is using Power Tune a good move? Picture of the spark plugs. Bottom plug is on your left. Top is on your right. Bottom looks to be a little wetter than the others. |
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Guys, I want to thank everyone for their input on this (especially KB7DX). I took the boat out yesterday and was able to run it for about 30 minutes (with a 10 minute break in the middle) without any alarms. I think it is fixed! What I did may not seem like much but I learned a ton doing this. It has been a great experience.
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...behind every blade of grass...
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