So because of the ammo shortage and everything but 12 ga seems hard to find without having to pay $40 for a box of 50 FMJ 9mm. I can still find 12 ga local stores and big box stores.

So thought I have been wanting to get another shotgun mostly due to I have a lot of ammo for it but also it can be found in my area. So I have based it down to two types of weapons.

First is a semi-auto magazine feed 12 ga. Why because I have always wanted one and since getting to shoot the AA12 when I was in the military I fell in love with the idea of being able to throw so much lead downrange so fast.

Pro: A magazine I can change ammo and reload faster. Since I'm looking at more Ar style it's closer to what my rifle is. Can carry mags and extra ammo easier. Longer range.

Cons: large heavy can't carry this with another rifle and pistol. Long for CQB or heavy brush.

Next is the Mossberg Shockwave. Why Mossberg because that what I'm used to and the 590A1 was my first and only shotgun so far.

Con: limited capacity only 6 rounds. Slow to reload, ammo is harder to carry and again slower to load. It Will is not good for long-range.

Pro: Pump action more reliable, short better for tight places, easy to carry can carry a rifle and pistol without much problem.

Looking for more pros and cons of both! Looking for advice on people who have used one or both of these shotguns! Thanks.

It's pretty easy for a shotgun used for defense it's very hard to beat a pump. Mossberg or Remington.
Stay away from the shokwave and all the odd ball stuff.
For a semi auto Benelli.

Mee tooooooo. Can't decide.

590.........

870.........


Both..............

The 870 dropped in quailty in my opinion some years back. If you look at the trigger group on the newer ones , alot of plastic and cheap stamped parts.
So if I had to buy a brand new one it would be a Mossberg. But the older 870 guns are still tops.

beretta 1301 tactical or bust....

Try Standard Manufacturing's DP-12

I have two Benelli M2s - one for hunting/clays and the other a tactical set up with 20 barrel and extended mag tube they are both hard to beat in a semi-auto. Also have a Benelli Nova Tactical. Great lightweight pump gun. Did a defensive shotgun class with it at the end of last year.

Also have a used Beretta A301 with an 18 inch barrel that is stamped “Great Britain.”  Picked it up for $200 at a gun show a couple of years ago.  Must hav3 been a police surplus import?

Hard to beat any of them for home defense, etc.

I may not have enough 12ga shells for the 870s we have.
Agreed the new trigger groups aren’t up to old standards.
I do swap the out for older ones.
The Tac14 is interesting and has a limited value. Mine has become a money pit.
US Marshals barrel and a vent rib cut and choked.

This is the way.

My 3gun 1301 has over 5-6k rounds through it and has only been cleaned twice.
One time only because it got snowed and rained on all day.

Only part replaced is the mag spring annually, and it’s a Nordic extended.

I have a tac also, it only has a few hundred rounds through it, but it handles very well.

Oh, and the mag fed shotguns are poop.
They will jam, they all jam, anyone that says theirs runs flawlessly has a safe queen.

This, Mossberg 500, or since money does not seem to be a concern, 590.

I say that as a person that comes from a Remington family.

And work on shotgun reloading, keeping it fed.  I'm a true believer in an AR Carbine is the best fighting weapon a civilian can own.... but a well practiced shotgunner is not something to be taken lightly.

I disagree with this statement about benelli. The beretta 1301 has surpassed the benelli offerings in reliability by large margin. We run close to 20k rounds of buck/slug/and bird every year and the berettas just keep chugging. The m4 chokes on anything less than full power stuff.

As far as I'm concerned, for semi-autos, if shotgun is the question Benelli is the answer.

12, 20, I don't care.  Gimme my M2 and I'm happy.

Yeah, that was my thought. Your best bet is if you can find an older Winchester or Remington shotgun on consignment sale at your LGSs. I've got an old '80s-era 870 12ga Police Magnum that's been run hard but is still 100%.

The newer 'tactical' stuff that's been rushed out in the last 3-5yrs is either unreliable or not very durable if run hard.

The newer Remmy stuff borders on junk. I don't trust Mossberg's Q.C. after my experience with one of their .308 Scout rifles, but an older 12ga Model 500 might be okay.

My stock Vepr 12 runs great with game loads, its been through quite a few 3 gun matches.

I would stay away from the AR style shotguns though.

Excellent choice!

Semi auto is only magazine feed don't want one that's not magazine.

I have also talked to several people who gun three gun with semi auto shotguns and they said they love them and have had no problems.

The shokwave I'm looking at because it's small can be carried easy along with a pistol and rifle.

I have been shooting and ROing 3gun since 2006.
I have seen literally thousands of shotguns being used hard and shot from awkward positions.
The only shotgun that is LESS reliable than a mag fed is the 930 JMpro. I would not trust either one of them for ANYTHING.

If I am understanding you correctly, the only semi-auto shotgun that you will consider is a detachable magazine version?   I am not sure why you would limit yourself in that regard.   When the USMC chose its last shotgun it chose the Benelli M4.   It is semi-auto and does not have a detachable box magazine.   Have you considered why that would be?  

I saw a video years ago that really got my attention.   It was taken at a defensive shotgun class and it involved a two person drill.    Basically one person was engaging targets with a shotgun while the second person was reloading.   When the person engaging targets ran out of ammo then the team members reversed roles.   The second person began engaging targets while the first person reloaded.   The detail that really caught my attention was the semi-auto shooters were not working nearly as hard as the pump action shooters.    The pump guys were working their a$$e$ off but the semi guys just stood there and put the targets down.   To me that also means that the semi guys had more capacity to engage more targets faster.   I have tried a couple of times to find that video in the last couple of years but I haven't been able to find it.  

I know a couple of guys that train with shotguns.   They don't wait for the shotgun to go empty before they add more rounds to the tube.   They seem to be able to top off their tube magazines much faster and more efficiently than most people can top off a box magazine.   And unless you have a lot of box magazines for your shotgun, I doubt that you would be willing to abandon a half empty magazine during a fight like you could do with a carbine.

I'm really Old School.
A Benelli 121M and a 70's vintage Remington 870 are my 2 most used shotguns.

I've used both. Prefer the 500 or 590. The safety is much easier to work.
I have a shotgun with a.magazine. rimmed shit shells and mags don't play nice. Stick with a tube.
H&R pardner is basically a 870...beefy as hell. It's a solid shottie. Maverick 88 is a mossberg 500...I have 2. Solid guns.

If your budget allows, this is the answer.  I own and have owned quite a few defensive shotguns, and the 1301 is best of class.

What is your intended use?  Mission drives the gear.

Not sure exactly why there is so much fanfare on detachable-mag fed shotguns (based on reliability issues).  For "social" use, you cover 99.xx% with 8+1 of buckshot.  Aside from that, getting over 10rds in a 12ga mag gets pretty unwieldy.  
For competition?  Sure, more ammo is better.   Even then, the reliability and expense of many of those shotguns don't necessarily make the most sense. The Beretta, Benelli, or a 940JM makes more sense to me.

For the SBS wanna-be...it looks cool, but if you want to be effective, pay your stamp and put a stock on it.  Those birds-head grips and/or pistol grip only models are slower and less accurate to use.
Now, if you are going to SBS it, those 12ga  non-NFA Firearms make the work easy.

Shockwave and most stuff is so far up in price I can't say I want one anymore.  They get back to pre-covid prices and yeah I kinda want one.

Tube fed semi-autos like the benelli have proven reliable to me, but I am cheap and do not own one.

Detachable mag fed shotguns seem to suffer from shell deformation if you leave the magazines loaded.  If this is still an issue I won't touch em.  3 gun or whatever where you can load it that day or right then at that stage is one thing.  I want to leave mags loaded and ready to go.

There was one shell made for detachable magazine shotguns but it is always out of stock and if in stock I believe its price would make current shotgun ammo prices blush.

Recent remington 870 stuff has rust and quality control issues.  I would go mossberg.

Whatever you get, look at spare parts.  Look hard.  Right now glock spare parts are a pain to get in some cases because of all the 80% stuff but you can buy about every glock part out there and more importantly to me I can swap parts without a ton of knowledge/training/ and tools.

Mossberg seems to fit that bill as well but I have not looked that hard at em.

This!

No sense reinventing the wheel.  You have a Mossberg already (muscle memory); I say buy a Shockwave, drop a F1 and be done with it.  Short, handy, familiar and reliable.

Just my $.02

My personal favorite  - because I have one  - is the Stevens 311R. Got mine back in the '80s. Factory-made 12ga 'riot gun,' which is what the 'R' stands for. It runs 18.5" dbl tubes.

Old School 'in-your-face' intimidating, but with just the right flare of panache. They made a small run of 311Rs in 20ga, but those seem to be quite rare.  The 12ga models actually pop-up for sale occasionally on GunJoker or GI. (Some are ex-L.E.). Condition varies, but they were built like tanks.

anecdote... I started seriously shooting 3 gun around 1995 with the North Carolina tactical matches at Fayetteville and Oxford... my 26" 1100 was replaced with a 21" tube after I quickly figured that Kyle was always going to be shooting from cars and buses... after 5 years of the Chevy truck STC here in Florida it started showing its age (75 birds a week), suffering multiple broken parts, and by the time Ft Benning 3gun matches started, switched to a 21" Benelli M1S90 in 2006, which ran flawlessly until I quit 3 gun due to an arthritic knee after Area 6 in 2015... with a 28" barrel it still shoots skeet and clays... when a couple of  minor protests were staged in town, the 21" barrel and Briley mag tube went back on the Benelli even though there is an 18 1/2" early 870 hanging over my bed


while my Mossbers shock wave was originally purchased as a car gun proof of concept option, its short length has merit as does it's legality... if you actually point it and don't think you can shoot from the hip without a lot of practice... a nylon hand loop really helps to control recoil and 5 shot side saddle does not impede the pump grip

This.

If you want mag fed, go with a VEPR-12.
I use Russian mags but I wouldn't say that's a necessity.

The Turkish AR shotguns have inferior gas systems.

For conventional tube feed, I'd get a Beretta 1301 Tactical, no question.

Benelli's M4 was king but they've had some QC issues lately and Beretta really knocked it out of the park with their newer design. If you do get an M4, buy a used older one, or be sure it's inspected thoroughly.

Older 870s or any 590A1 is a good choice too, but I prefer auto to pump.
For about the same price as those pumps, you can find an LE trade-in Benelli M1 or M2 SBS (14" Entry model) if you look hard enough.

People cause pump actions to malfunction too (under stress) because they don't train with them enough.

Oh and don't get a SPAS-12 or a USAS-12 lol. I have both, but wouldn't recommend either for defensive use.
My VEPR-12 has been extremely reliable however.

Benelli's M4 not spending $1,500 to $5,000 for a shotgun unless it's the AA12! Also, I could buy 3 to 10 pump-action shotguns for the price of one Benelli M4. So that's 3 or 10 people vs 1!

Again if tube feed was so much better than magazine feed them why does the military use the M16/ M4 type and not a tube feed?

On that topic, if Benelli was as great as they say and worth all the money then why have they not made a magazine feed shotgun? Just saying!

I want something more of a niche shotgun! Can take the place of my AR as they will not replace my STG-58! Or want something of a three-gun style that I can carry on me a long gun, pistol, and shotgun.

I was in CQB ( Sorry might offend some people here talking about what I did in combat that you have never seen! ( No disrespect to my brother and sisters war vets!) Warning!!!)

During my time we did house se search and fighting the M16-A4 and later M4 is not the best. Benelli's M4 also not the best all because of long barrels! Why did Benelli not make their M4 a 12 inch?

Been better off with a pump-action 12 ga sawed off to 12 inches or less even a double barrel at 6 inches. Why how long the barrel is!

Shotgun has that awesome advantage during CQB don't need to aim can keep it close to your core ( Main strength of your body.) Also it even with common 7.5 it will kill! If not they are not going to be happy or come after you! Anyone wishing to try it out? I'll see how many people are willing!

I'm not saying Benelli's M4 is not a great shotgun but price, price, and the price is its downfall! I can saw a barrel but not a price!

I'm not going to say up in the next days having a weapon that I can carry on me and take up roles that are needed!

This. Personally all of my shotguns are Remingtons And Benelli.

Yeah, but the Q.C. on the newer Remmy shotguns makes them borderline, unreliable junk.

Pre-panic, you could still score older 870s of various barrel-lengths at your  LGSs or the regional Fun Show. Then you could chop the barrel as short as you liked, or F-1 it to build an SBS.

But right now, the older 870s seem pretty scarce.

I was going to put my 2 cents in until I read this from the OP ..................."Again if tube feed was so much better than magazine feed them why does the military use the M16/ M4 type and not a tube feed?"

First, "because I have always wanted one" is all we need to know. If that's what you want, buy it. You don't need us to convince you.

But . . . I think you're thinking wrong. I don't think the complication of a box magazine is going to give you the benefits you think it will. Shotguns are easy to top off. When you start running through ammo, pause and slip a couple more rounds in the mag. You can top off most shotguns continuously. You can't do that with a box magazine. Box mags on shotguns are dumb.

BTW, what do you mean by "longer range"? The range of a shotgun is determined by the ammo. A tight choke will give you greater shot density at a certain distance, but individual pellets are only going to travel so far, with so much energy.



The trigger mechanism of the 870 has ALWAYS used stamped metal parts. That was sort of the point of the 870 . . . lower manufacturing cost compared to the old Model 31. You have to go back to the Winchester 12, the Remington 31 or the Ithaca 37 to find a shotgun made with machined inner parts (the Ithaca remains the sole surviving example of Old World craftsmanship in a pump shotgun).

Beyond that, I suspect most of the "they don't make them like they used to" comments I see about the 870 stem from a confusion about the Wingmaster vs. the Express. Yes, the Express is a cheaper (cheaper made) gun. It sold at Walmart for less than $300. Until the last day Remington existed they continued to offer the Wingmaster. This was a $700 gun. Most people aren't familiar with them because they're broke ass cheapskates who don't buy $700 pump shotguns. The ONLY 870 a whole bunch of people know is the Express. The Express and the Wingmaster are not the same thing, although the design is identical. One of these is not like the other.

Remington did away with the hard, glossy bowling ball type finish in 1986, opting for a more modern (and probably cheaper) Satin finish, but the Wingmaster quality remained. They were still nicely blued, with quality wood instead of the generic "hardwood" or plastic of the Express. I've own a recent production 870 Wingmaster and it's every bit as good of a gun as the old ones.

All that said, the $300 Remington 870 Express was a hell of a gun for the money. I prefer them to the Mossberg, which always felt like a rattletrap to me, and just never handled as nicely (the bigger deal). There were two main legitimate complaints about the 870 Express. In the early years, they tended to have tight chambers, which caused sticky extraction. This was easily addressed by chucking up a wire bore brush in an electric drill, slathering it with oil and letting it rip in the chamber for a few seconds. The second, again legitimate, complaint was that they tended to rust. The consensus seems to be that Remington often didn't adequately rinse out the the chemicals used to produce the matte phosphorus finish on the guns. The solution was to tear the gun down and clean it like a muzzleloader, with hot water. Once the old chemicals were rinsed, the gun dried and oiled, they seemed to do fine. Also, it's worth noting that the 870 Express got BETTER over time. The later guns are quite good -- contrary to the "they've gone to shit" narrative.

I’m gonna throw the ksg into the mix. If you are worried about cqb at all it can be a great asset. As short as the shockwave but has a stock and hold 15 rds.

It is harder than you traditional pump to reload due to the location of the feeding but can be done easily through training.

It's hard to beat the Benelli M2 tactical, I have one and just love it.

How about the Emperor Arms Mogul 12 gauge?

There are several people trying to give you advice based on their experience and it sounds like you are arguing with them.   It reminds me of your solar powered fan thread.  You are expecting a lot for a very niche type situation.        



Not if they are broken.



Shotguns have a rimmed shell.   The 5.56 is not rimmed, is tapered, and is a cartridge.   I doubt that one feeding system can handle both types of ammunition equally well.  



Is that a serious question?    If it is then please explain a little more of your logic so that I can respond appropriately.  

But off the top of my head, any box magazine for a shotgun isn’t going to hold many rounds or if it does then it will be huge.   So topping off is going to be a necessity of this shotgun is your primary weapon.   That is much easier to do with a tube fed weapon.  



But do you want a reliable, durable shotgun?   If you do then box magazine fed shotguns as they are made today, may not be for you.  



That is a tough question to answer.   CQB may not have been it’s intended purpose.    Or reliability of the gas system may have necessitated the longer barrel.   If my shotgun is semi-auto then reliability is more important to me than a short barrel.    If I have an application that MUST HAVE a short barrel then I will chose the appropriate weapon for the task.  



If the barrel is too short than you reduce the the velocity and effectiveness of the shot.  



Yes, you do.  



If you are referring to birdshot then yes, it can kill.   Is it likely to kill?   Not really.  One of the last things that I would want to do is shoot a potentially armed adversary with birdshot at CBQ distances.    But you can go ahead and do it if you want.  



The Benelli M4 has an 18.5” barrel.   You cannot saw it off without getting into SBS territory.   I don’t think that is practical with an M4 because of the other parts of the shotgun that would have to be modified to get the barrel down under 18”.  

As for price, have you seen how many thousands of rounds they can put through them without breaking them?    Henderson Defense had a shotgun thread going where they were junking Mossberg 500’s and Remington 870’s after they were only on the range for a week or two because they would fail.   They were cheaper to replace than repair.   But if I recall correctly the Benelli M4’s that were on the line were the original M4’s that they bought.  



I do not know what this means.  

a 590a1 or an 870. The handicap is there has been a year now of gun panic. If you see 12 gauge in stock you need to buy an assortment of ammo now. My local stores have been out of all flavors of 12 gauge for months

Benelli m2

Where did you shoot an AA-12 in the military ?  At the end of the day a subgun or a SBR are both ahead of the shotgun. A 12 gauge even with buckshot is not a magic talisman. The 12 gauge is limited by low magazine capacity and heavy ammunition. My experience with magazine fed shotguns was mixed reliability even after improvements. I sold all of mine and converted to all tube fed.  None of the magazine fed shotguns were near the reliability of an AR platform or a pistol. The mag fed shotguns are mainly range toys.  You can improve your reloads on tube fed shotguns with training. If you insist on a shotgun buy a Benelli and call it a day. It is expensive but they run and run.

This. ^^^

I’ve spent some time behind the original AA12 and the new licensed copy converted to full auto. It’s a pile of shit. I work with tac teams that utilize shotguns for breaching and entry and get to see the guns in use on a very large scale. Almost every agency is dropping the m4 due to reliability issues with breaching rounds and low recoil buckshot. The few times I’ve seen mag fed shotguns, they didn’t make it past lunch before we had to give them a loaner. That god awful keltec monstrosity is actually banned at a couple of well known training facilities because the jams slow the class down too much.

I’ve avoided semi autos for a long time due to complexity/ reliability issues but I’ve recently acquired a 1301t. I have to say, so far I’m impressed. I still need to run 5-6 cases through it before I’m comfortable with the new manual of arms, but it shoots like a dream so far.

Old 870- 590- 1301t - everything else
Ymmv

Over the last year, I acquired a Saiga 12 and Sears and Roebucks Ted Williams 12 gauge single shot.

I don't know where I would find a Mossberg 500 right now.

If I had the money Id buy a 1014. If I had less money Id buy the 1301.

I think they are about equal but I used the benelli in Fallujah so Id like to own one as well.

Im to lazy to sell all my pumps to but a good semi but realistically If I was seriously thinking the balloon was going up a 1301 or 1014 would be what I would want for a fighting shotgun.

I do love my mossbergs. My 590a1 with a bayonet is a very comforting gun. I have shot the everliving piss out of it and trust it completely.

The shockwave is a great tool that I have pushed about as far as I want to push. Hunting, classess, competitions, etc. A lot of benefits and only a few negatives compared to a stocked shotgun. I like them.

I really hope Remington gets back to making 1187s and doesn't cut corners. My 1100 and 1187 have decades of flawless functioning behind them. OP if your new to shotguns just be aware that inertia driven guns like Benelli and Stoeger can give you a pounding if you are shooting heavy 3" loads like turkey loads.

This is what I ultimately decided.

I had a Shockwave for a couple of weeks.
Could never really be accurate with it when shooting it pistol style.

With a pistol brace, it lost all of the compactness that I liked.

YMMV

Had a 870, now I have 2 590a1's.