I decided to start this thread instead of continuing to hijack PWA_Commando's $50 bucket challenge thread found here:

$50 Bucket Challenge Thread

I 100% applaud PWA_Commando for showing how much food can be acquired for $50.

After looking through the contents of his selections I wondered if this is the kind of food his family actually eats.  I was concerned about his selections because of my own experience dating back before Y2K.  In fact, my experience with "emergency food" dates back to the late 1980's.  When I started college I kept four cases of MREs in my dorm room (and apartment later).  Toward the end of university my roommate (same guy for three years ... gun guy, etc) and I tried to eat the MREs.  As a very poor college kid getting a professional degree I was accustomed to eating ... less than ideal food.  However, those MREs were horrible.  My roommate and I embarked on "living exclusively on them" for a week and by the end of the week decided we'd rather starve.  I know millions of soldiers have lived on MREs, but NOT BY CHOICE.  This is the point of this thread.

You have a choice as to WHAT KIND of food you store.

Here's the rest of my story ...

After I graduated I kept some frieze-dried food on hand for hiking / camping / emergencies.  As Y2K approached my wife and I bought a "large supply" (think THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS) worth of "long term storage" foods including: frieze-dried, dry beans, dry rice, LOTS of dehydrated #10 cans, and ten cases of MREs.  We didn't really expect to need the stuff, but we had grown our finances to a place where we could afford to "prepare just in case". Y2K turned out to be nothing.  All of this stuff sat.

By 2005 we had bought a larger, nicer house, and we hauled all of the "emergency food" to the new house and used a spare walk-in closet to store it.

Also in 2005 we started growing a small garden, planted a cherry tree and were now buying Organic store bought food almost exclusively. The shift to "fresh and organic" was a costly decision, but it has paid dividends in our health and enjoyment of food.

Anyway, in 2012 we bought a hobby farm and decided to eat the "emergency food" instead of haul it a second time.  Checking the MREs yielded they had expired so we threw them away.  The dehydrated and frieze-dried were HORRIBLE.  The food gave us digestive problems (polite way of saying extreme diarrhea which could be fatal in an emergency), and was NOT palatable.   We threw away all of the short dated items (dehydrated was short dated at this point).  We gave 100% of the frieze-dried anonymously to a local food pantry.  We dumped the dried rice and beans in our compost at the new hobby farm upon arrival.

We tried to make a go of the hobby farm (1/3 acre veg garden, fruit tree orchard, 100' x 20' brambles patch, 35 chickens, etc etc etc).  However, with my professional career and driving almost an hour each way to the office made it impossible.  We did learn quite a lot about food preservation, but the hard part was GROWING the food / keeping the predators at bay.

We've since sold the hobby farm and moved back to suburbia.

That is a lot of background to say a simple idea ....

ONLY STORE FOOD YOU NORMALLY EAT.  DO NOT STORE FOOD BECAUSE IT IS CHEAP OR ANY OTHER REASON.  

To quote myself from the $50 Bucket Challenge thread ...

Morale of the story ...

1) Having extra food is on always prudent.
2) Having extra food that you normally eat is a MUCH BETTER IDEA than a bunch of stuff you think you'll be able to choke down if hungry. This is extremely true if you have children. Good luck there.
3) Having extra food that you normally prepare and have the knowledge and skills to prepare is superior to "learning on the fly" when "something happens" and you're under stress and hungry.
4) Having extra food that you normally eat means you won't be throwing out a bunch of off-brand canned goods that taste nasty or LTS foods that are very hard your system when they expire ... that is to say ... you will not waste money as we did.

Just buy more of what you normally eat.

STRATEGY

1) Establish a food budget.
2) Develop a meal plan.

NOTE: 1 and 2 were practiced by every homemaker wife up till the baby-boomer generation. It is a frugal and prudent way to live.

3) Develop a shopping list based upon your meal plan and budget.
4) Buy 2 extra of each "stable" item until you have a month's worth of "normal" food in your pantry.

EXAMPLES OF INEXPENSIVE FOODS

+ Chili (canned beans, canned tomatoes, fresh onion ... or dried onion powder bought in bulk, dry seasonings, frozen or tinned beef)
+ Western Style Rice (dry white rice, canned salsa, canned 'rotele style' tomatoes, dry taco seasoning, and if you desire cheese)
+ Asian Style Rice (dry white rice, seasoning of choice, canned peas, canned carrots, onion if you have it)
+ Taco Soup (canned beans, canned tomatoes, canned corn, canned 'rotele style' tomatoes, dry taco seasoning, and cheese if you desire)
+ Spaghetti (sauce and pasta of choice)
+ Vegetable Soup (canned vegetables, canned potatoes, tinned beef, boxed broth)
+ Bread (wheat if you have a grinder or flour, yeast, salt and perhaps a little olive oil)
+ Beans & Ham (canned beans, tinned ham, salt, dry seasonings)
+ Cornbread (cornbread mix or cornmeal with baking powder)
+ Rice & Beans (dry white rice, canned red kidney beans, canned tomato paste or sauce, dry seasonings)
+ Western Rice Bowl (dry white rice, canned red kidney beans, canned black beans, canned salsa, canned 'rotele style' tomatoes, dry taco seasoning, and cheese if you desire)
+ Mac & Cheese (dry mac and cheese with a little added macaroni to make the dish extend further. You can use powered milk and/or butter if the pre-mix cheese calls for milk.)
+ Mac & Cheese with Tuna (same as above but with a can of DRAINED tuna mixed in)
+ Mac & Cheese with Chicken (same as above but substitute a can of DRAINED chicken)
+ Beef & Noodle Casserole (tinned beef, pasta noodles of your choice, boxed beef broth, canned tomatoes ... drained / rinsed, canned tomato paste, dry seasonings, olive oil)
+ Chicken Noodle Soup (tinned chicken, boxed broth, canned carrots, dehydrated celery or dry celery seed, dry noodles of your choice, dry seasonings)
+ Chicken & Rice Soup (same as above but use white rice instead of noodles)
+ Mashed Potatoes (dry ... can use powered milk or butter if needed)
+ Mashed Potatoes with Beef (dry mashed potatoes, tinned beef, dry gravy sauce, canned mushrooms, dry seasonings)

I could go on and on (clearly as this thread is starting to make you wonder if I'm secretly NUTNFANCY), but all of the above is cheap, easy to store, easy to prepare and nutritious. We eat about 95-98% organic and prepare everything from the least "prepared" ingredients. This is costly, but our health is very good (we sacrifice in other areas for the quality of our food). Regardless if you choose organic or the most GMO products on earth, none of the above is expensive if you shop around. This is especially true when you buy items on sale. You may not need 12 cans of small red or kidney beans for this week's meal plan, but if you find them on sale and the date is far enough out ... stock up.

NOTE 1: all "canned" beans can also be dry beans if you have time to soak and pressure cook.
NOTE 2: all "canned" veg can be store bought or home preserved or frozen if you have a backup generator.
NOTE 3: all "tinned" beef can be home canned, store bought, frozen (generator) or dehydrated.
NOTE 4: buy seasoning in bulk online and store in mason jars. You'll be amazed at how much money you'll save.

100% agree,

you did the internet prepper quick fix, and its sucks. People that think rice and beans are good enough are insane.

what FD stuff did you have??

I have a bunch of FD, as well as bulk carbs plus some MREs, BUT I do cook the FD stuff every now and then, as well as the MREs.

The key is to  supplement it with "special" food stores, IE college ramen, method.

Cook ramen, shitcan the packet, use some dashi+soy+protein and maybe a punch of greens and you actually have a decent meal.

Here is the extent of our "food storage program" now.  We have a large 6'-0" x 13'-0" walk-in pantry (that could hold 7 years worth of disgusting cheap canned goods or awful frieze-dried foods) but we have chosen to hold keep about a month worth of "we actually like to eat this stuff" food on hand.  Again, we've been blessed and could have a truck load of crap delivered tomorrow but it simply isn't practical (or a good use your money).

This is 100% of what we keep on hand ... just took these pictures ...
























I highly commend everyone buy these cooking items and learn to use them .... (the instant pot and enameled dutch oven in particular):






Meat in the freezer and coolers as a back up (no rapid source for ice so its really a no-go solution ... would have to use the dehydrator on what we could) ...





Spice of life ... (BUY IN BULK ONLINE AND SEPARATE INTO JARS) ...







This is ARFCOM ...

We bought all of our supplies from Emergency Essentials.  They had a "store brand" called "Provident Pantry" as well as Mountain House.

If you like salt, sodium and hyper-tension these products are for you.

Any particular reason you've only chosen Organic labelled items? Just trying to mimic your daily diet as much as possible?

We now have meal plans in place that everyone enjoys (cooking is a family activity that more families should engage in ... it builds bonds and yields delicious results) we've built our "pantry" to contain everything we need for a "sustenance" level of calories for a period of 30 days. Yes, we've calculated the exact number of calories our pantry holds based upon what you see.

**the picture shows the pantry at its fullest ... Sunday is our "grocery shopping day"**

We only go to the grocery once a week (for fresh produce and meat as well as to replenish those items we've used).

We don't store food for an emergency ... our plan is to just buy extra of what we already eat.

This way if something happens and the food trucks stop for a few weeks ... our life doesn't change.

How do you cycle through your food stores? FIFO?

Yeah the #1 answer whenever someone asks "What should i store?" should always be store what you eat. If you eat it, you can rotate out your food and won't waste much if any.

I'd add one small caveat:

Storing freeze dried/LTS food is fine as long as you know you like it. Don't buy a case of #10 cans of something you don't know if you like or not. I have some Mountain House Cans for LTS. Every one i have is one i've eaten on the trail and like. If i get to the point that i need to eat them, i know i'll be ok. I can also open up a can and break them up if I'm going on a 4-5 hiking day trip and save some money.

Not OP, but yes. I mark each can/container with a sharpie with the expiration date on it so it's easy to read. That way i not only know which is the oldest, but how long  i have until i have to use them up. That way i don't have 6 cans of soup i suddenly need to eat.

Our "survival philosophy" is based upon our experience ...

1) I grew up hunting, fishing, hiking, and building AR15s + 1911 (started doing this with my uncle at 10 years old).
2) We moved from a nice suburban home that was 17 minutes from teh edge of a city of 120,000 to a hobby farm 51 minutes (by highway) from the same city.
3) We selected a hobby farm that was almost a mile off a paved road (our private gravel lane was 7/10 mile long) and connected to a state park on one side.
4) Our hobby farm had: well water, septic system, generator, cooking wood stove with 5 chords on hand, basement, canning kitchen, 1/3 acre garden, 32 fruit trees, 40 brambles (blueberry, blackberry, raspberry, currants), 20 grape vines, 35 chickens with a mobile tractor, 10000 feet of electric goat fence, etc etc etc
5) We grew, preserved, dehydrated, smoked, and cured all manner of foods.

The realty of this all is ... it is absolutely not sustainable for the average contemporary American family if you ever want to secure financial independence.

A) Land is too costly to acquire.
B) You're going to be driving a LONG distance to work every day ... no matter how much food you grow or store you're going to to 'render unto Ceaser what is his' (pay property taxes, insurances, etc).
C) You're going to find that the "simple life" isn't that simple.

...and the big one ... LISTEN UP EVERYONE ....

D) Every single person that is living the good life (ie has one jar of olives in the house for 'martinis') that knows you're trying to "prepare" is going to show up at your door at the first sign of trouble.

Forget all of the kumbaya crap "egalitarian survivalists" preach.  It is rubbish.  The fact is, people will descend upon you like biblical locusts and all that you tried to do will be lost.  Ask anyone that survived Katrina what "kumbaya ... lets all band together" yielded.

HERE IS THE STARK REALITY ...

Any wide spread food distribution disruption lasting longer than two weeks will result in looting / localized social break down.

If you don't live in an extremely remote area with exceedingly low population density your neighbors are going to smell the smoke from your grill or quickly notice you don't look as hungry as they are.  Once this happens you'll be feeding them and their kids.  If you refuse ... you had better be prepared to repel boarders as a hungry mom will stop at nothing to feed her children. This means your idea about living out a long term doomsday in your apartment or suburban house is a childish fantasy.

Having enough food on hand to feed your family for two weeks plus 100% extra is a safe guard against the above.  You'll have extra to share with your lazy brother-in-law and his narcissistic wife when they show up in flip flops and start complaining about 'how cold you keep your house' while they eat their way through your food supply.

If the problem doesn't start to resolve (i.e. if the public doesn't start to see improvement / hope / morale increase) within a few weeks ... the problem is far worse than you'll be able to survive in an apartment or high density location like a city.

Every study I've read (and I've been doing this for 30 years) stated the average household has less than 3 days worth of food.  The larger the city the less per-person food is kept.  I read in American Survival Guide (probably 20 years ago) the average New York City flat has 1200-2400 calories in it.  No idea how they determined this.

SUMMARY

Just store enough of the food (that you normally eat) to feed your family for two weeks + 100% contingency unless you want to try ultra rural homesteading.  If you go this route you may survival "it" but your life is going to be hard, dirty, unrewarding, and poverty stricken.

Go live your life and pick up an extra can of tomatoes when you go to the store.  Have a little emergency cash in the bank, and don't dwell on those things you cannot change.

We check dates when we buy, and use a "left front oldest ... right rear newest" method.  That is to say, we draw from the left front row, and put new in the back right row.

It is our FIFO method.

We also routinely check dates to make sure something is going to go off.  If we find something short dated it gets put on on the kitchen island so we don't forget to use it.

It really doesn't matter how much money you make or have ... it is just about being good stewards of what you're given.  We try to minimize waste.

Hey - thank you.  I appreciate that.  It was quite a lot of work.

ADDENDUM TO MY PHILOSOPHY OF LONG TERM FOODS

I focused on the "quality" of LTS foods more than the economics and politics of it.  I'd like an opportunity to expand on those ideas.

LTS (long term storage foods ... frieze-dried in particular) are VERY COSTLY.

The average recommendation is to use FD #10 cans within 20 years of production as the nutritional value decreases rapidly after 20 years.  This all assumes proper storage (humidity and heat control.... colder and drier the better).  The food will be edible after 20 years, but the nutrition will be diminishing.

Therefore, I challenge a person to prove FD is a better solution than canned.  For example ... if you eat corn you'd want to buy a very expensive can of FD corn.  Why?  You can buy a case of canned corn for less, and it is already divided into servings.  Remember, once you open a #10 can it is starting to spoil and moisture is activating the food.  You have to eat all the FD corn quickly.  Whereas, you can have 12 cans of corn ready to go that are good for 12-36 months for about $0.80 a can.

If you're planning on storing more than a month's worth of food FD becomes very very expensive.  Price a year's supply of FD food.  I know how much it costs because I bought two of them in 1999.

The ideology of FD is also false hope.  If you keep enough "ready to use" food on hand that 20 year shelf life doesn't' matter.  Again, if you love corn buy five cases of canned corn at Sams or Costco.  That's sixty cans for about $30.  That is one can for sixty days for $30.  Two #10 cans of FD corn will cost you the same.  It will not last sixty days once opened.  Read the labels.  They often recommend use within seven days (or less).  Eat your canned corn before it expires and go buy another 60 cans.  Meanwhile that FD corn is just sitting and losing nutritional value.  Spend your money on food you actually eat is the point.

As someone else said above, I did the "internet prepper" deal and spent THOUSANDS of dollars on a two-year supply of FD food in 1999.  Adjusted for inflation we're talking a lot of money. That was 21 years ago.  We threw away or gave away THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS worth of food.   I've learned a lot, and think for most people simply having extra of what you normally eat is a better plan.  There is nothing wrong with keeping some FD meat if you choose to do so, but be prepared to "home can" it after its open as again ... that $40 #10 can of beef is going to start degrading quickly after you open it.

For my family you see what we have in our pantry.  I don't see this ever changing again.  We've made our mistakes and learned from them.  However, I'm just a middle-aged guy thinking about the real world (retirement, health care expenses, the reality of "survival" not the mythology of it).  Your situation, goals, resources or needs may dictate a different approach.   I wish we lived in a world that didn't require these types of conversations.  Alas we do live in a world with misguided people, real catastrophic concerns, and evil lurking around the corner.  How you chose to mitigate these concerns is your choice entirely.  I just wanted to share some costly experience so someone else wouldn't have to make the same mistake. My sincrere best wishes to all of you.

Yeah, that's actually super important to note for those who aren't familiar with freeze dried foods. Easy solution is simply divvy it up and reseal into smaller vacuum sealed bags and you're gtg. You can extend that can several weeks(if not longer, but if i open a can and then divvy it up, i usually eat it within 2 months).

I have been going with the layered approach many advocate which was accelerated with the corona virus threat.

I have 50 lbs of white rice, probably 20 of assorted dried beans, 30 lbs of sugar and 20 lbs of salt.  Those are a low-cost investment.  Some will get eaten and the rest can be thrown out if they get stale since there is probably only $50 invested in them

In addition to topping off the pantry with normally consumed canned goods I also have a couple of Mountain House emergency buckets in the closet.  I will eat those when camping when they get more than 10 years old and then replace them if necessary.  They are nice to have and much easier to move and prepare than canned goods.

I also have a few #10 cans of things like powdered milk, cheese powder, powered eggs, pilot wafers, etc. that I bought on sale at Amazon.

I had always been at a bit of a loss as to what to do with the two full freezers (normal size) of meat if the power were to be out for an extended period of time.  Eating that much meat isn't realistic.

To preserve it if necessary I decided to buy a pressure canner (All American #925).  I have always wanted to can low-acid foods anyway so it wasn't as much of a prep item as a useful gadget.  If we get to the point that finding more generator gas isn't an option I will fire up the kerosene butterfly wick stove and can all the meat left in the freezers.  That way at least it won't spoil and can be consumed later.

However, if we get to that point, we as a society are truly boned and it will be complete chaos in the streets.

depends on the brand really and the type of food. Don't just eat the prepared meals

BTW you need to make some rotation racks (way old pic)


My cooking pantry is stocked about like yours but I do a lot more basic stuff, bulk vinegar/oils/flours/grains/legumes/spices, but I cook from scratch as well.

don't use absolutes

I can pack a lot more FD food in a pack and walk a lot further than with wet pack, especially if I have kids
I can also store that in below freezing temps where cans/jars will bulge/explode.
I can leave a FD mylar in the weather/dirt (no sun) and it will last longer than a rusted can.
Some food in FD forms will outlast the wet packed form.
your cost analysis it off as well as your storage times


There are multiple ways to do it and everyone has different priorities.

AFA using freeze dried my plan is to add carbs/veggies to the FD as a way to stretch it and it evens out all the salt.

little MH meal+rice/pasta+veggies+extra spices= balanced and way cheaper than just FD meals.

I also don't just stock the meals, the unflavored meats and vegs/fruit allow more options.

There is about 5 gallons in our "broom closet" for cleaning.  We don't buy store bought cleaners (we make our own).

We have most of our meat in the freezer too.  You can always buy a generator (and just flip off the breakers to parts of your home you don't want to energize). An alternative is preserving meat (dehydrated, smoked, canned ... as in pressure).

Meat is a tricky issue for a lot of people that don't know how or want to preserve it.  That's why I mentioned FD meat might be a good option for some.  Personally, we had a generator installed.  Again, I don't think the average person reading this has any chance of sitting in Fort Living Room for 5 years eating FD ice cream sandwiches.  I try to take a pragmatic approach such as ... ice storm shuts everything down for 5 days.

Long term storage of food isn't that big of a deal.  Long term storage of food that is tasty, and enjoyable to eat is VASTLY different than food that will meet basic caloric and nutritional requirements for things like fiber, fats, carbs, protein.   Getting food that actually tastes GREAT to eat after 5 years is quite an accomplishment.

Rice, soy beans, dried fish, dehydrated fruits, carrots and riced cauliflower will help keep you alive, but after 2-3 months of eating nothing but that, some folks would begin to consider eating their gun.

My preps are mostly things I normally eat, but I also keep a selection of freeze dried and MRE type foods. Canned goods are great for bugging in or filling in during lean times, but they're heavy and if you have to move, can be an issue. A mix of MREs and freeze dried are much better if you have to bug out.

I make sure I eat what I store for preps. Freeze dried, MRE, or canned goods. I've found that I can adapt to a lot of foods but if I quit eating them for a long period of time some make me sick. Now I make sure I don't let that happen. If there's another 9/11 and I have to find a way back home from out of state, the last thing I want is to get laid out because the only food available was Arby's and my tender tummy couldn't take it!

I agree with your comments.  This is one of those YMMV areas. Our experience turned me off to FD, DH, and MREs completely.   As I mentioned earlier .. everyone has different views, priorities, concerns and perceived solutions.

My entire approach to the "survival" topic is dramatically different than it was 35 years ago.  35 years ago I was expecting to have to live like the movie Red Dawn (the original ... not that remake).  30 years ago I matured enough to know I actually needed some food around instead of "running to the woods and hunting".  20 years ago I decided to "go big" and put in a vast supply of LTS foods.  Yet, here I sit after 35 years and various approaches and the worst thing that has happened (beside personal health problems) was an ice storm that shut down power and travel for four days.

If a person wants to spend $8-10,000 on three years worth of FD food after analyzing all of the cost/benefit parameters then go for it.  However, I'd say the odds of them actually using (in an emergency capacity) any of that FD food is virtually non-existent.

REALITY vs FANTASY

It is really easy to get swept up in the glamour of "planning" and the emotional high that comes from looking into your bunker stacked deep with cases of 5.56MM ammo and pallets of food.  However, when in American history would of this been an actual necessity?  Remember, we are the wealthiest nation in the world.  When England (had to) hand over control of the world's economy (resultant of WW2 ... Winston Churchill) to the US it positioned us to be insulated from the issues many (not even most) other nations face.

The simple fact is ... the likelihood of needing 20 year old food is exceeding small.  This is a provable fact.  Again, name the times in American history when an American needed food stored for 20 years.

In the real world the need for capital (cash) to address an ailing parent, or long-term-care insurance costs, or college tuition for your children (so they can further America's greatness by contributing their intellectual powers to the whole), or even something as mundane as an energy efficient furnace is vastly more probable than eating FD while the rest of the world died 15 years before.

Again, if you're reading this ... look at your neighbors.  Look at your city.  Drive to your Wal-Mart and then tell me how you plan to hide the fact that you're eating / healthy when all of those people within immediate vicinity of your are not.

The only way FD makes sense to me is if you: are independently wealthy and can afford the "insurance" cost; you have a vastly remote location wherein you can live wherein people won't find you or notice you're fat / dumb / happy while everyone else is starving; you have the infrastructure in that location to defend / prepare / store the mountains of products you have.

Realty vs fantasy is going to favor just living a normal life devoid of years worth of food.  This isn't biblical times.

FAR TOO MANY PEOPLE IGNORE THE PERIPHERY CONTACT ISSUE

How many people reading this live so isolated / protected / hidden that they are confident they will be able to live unseen.  Again, those hungry neighbors, friends, family members ... even the guy that delivered your FD food on the UPS truck is going to show up.  Hope you have enough to go around.  Periphery contact / population density makes the long term food just irrational lest you have the hidden mountaintop retreat.

Definitely.  I've followed enough of your posts to know you're correct.

That's what happened to us.  After several years of eating mostly fresh or scratch type foods FD didn't settle with us.  I also attribute eating mostly organic to being an offset.

My wife, in particular, has a physical reaction to foods with MSG, preservatives, etc.

Don't get too excited ... I'm married (to a woman)

The fact is if you live in the continental United States the likelihood of needing any "preps" past enough to survive a flu / viral epidemic (not pandemic), short term (2-3 year) financial crisis, 2 week natural disaster and associated looting, 4-8 year political nightmare is very very very very very slim.

Spend your time, energy and money on things that really matter.  Enjoy your lives.  Don't worry about things you can't change.  Have a month's worth of food, AR15, Glock 9mm, $10,000 emergency fund in the bank and devote the rest of your resources to enjoying life (while investing toward retirement).

I was cautioned to "not use absolutes" but here I go again ...

I guarantee you'll enjoy retirement more than a basement filled with FD food unless you're one of those weirdos that lives to work.

Few people fell for the "self sufficent / self preservation" BS more than I did.

How many of you can say you've ...

Spent hundreds of thousands of dollars on a farm;
Renovated the house on the farm to be self-sufficient (another $53,000);
Built a full storm shelter in the basement;
Had your wife resign from her profession (which cut the household income 40%) to stay home and "run the family and homestead";
Spent $12,000 on: fences, non-treated cedar posts for your organic vineyard, built mobile chicken tractor coups, rainwater collection and filtration systems, 10,000 linear feet of Sheep & Goat fence plus electric;
Drove 84 miles a day (42 each way) to work so you could "live the survivalist dream";
Bought 2,000 BALL jars to can the food that came from your 1/3 acre (that is 14375 square feet) vegetable garden;
Had the house rewired for a generator, bought a generator;
Had an extra 1000 gallon propane tank brought in to the property for the new canning kitchen;
Planted 32 fruit trees, 40 brambles (blueberry, blackberry, raspberry, currants), 20 grape vines;
Had 35 laying hens;
Cut 5 chords of wood a year (off your property without mechanical assistance short of the chain saw);
Attempted to heat and cook on a wood stove exclusively for an entire winter;
Intentionally elected to forego replacing the A/C condenser when it died in July (100F with 90% humidity) ... lasted until fall just to see what it would be like without power.

Not many were as committed as we were.

Yet, here we are back in suburbia liking the fact that we can be at a grocery store in 7 minutes ... and not having needed any of those things we thought we needed.

That period of "extreme homestead prepping" is the single biggest mistake I've made in my life.

My advice: live your your lives and stop fantasizing about "being prepared".

Again ...  here is a rational, mature, sane approach:

+ Get out of debt (including your mortgage, but it should be the last item);
+ Have a $10,000 emergency cash fund in the bank (find a vertical checking or similar that pays 1.75-3% interest so you're not losing purchasing power to inflation);
+ Buy a top-quality AR15 (like BCM BFH, Daniel Defense, LMT CQB/MRP) with twenty mags and 3000rds of ammo;
+ Buy a Glock 19 with five mags and 2000rds of ammo;
+ Buy a Ruger 10/22 Stainless with five mags and 3000rds of ammo for each family member;
+ Buy a Benelli M2 with 500rds of ammo;
+ Store 30 days worth of food that you normally eat in your pantry (rotate it as you eat it);
+ Buy a Berkey Stainless (black filter) water filtration system;
+ Buy five cases (thirty 16.9 ounce each) of water for each family member (rotate every 36 months or keep and run through Berkey);
+ Keep a spare "jumbo case" of toilet paper on hand;
+ Keep isopropyl alcohol; peroxide; sterile gauze; sterile tape; etc on hand;
+ Build a trauma kit and keep it in the center of the house (hemostat, CAT; etc);
+ Keep prescription medications needed by your family (including epipens) handy;
+ Keep duct tape, a roll of vapor retarder, and basic tools in your garage.

Then go live your life, enjoy things, stop worrying, invest in your retirement and spend time with your family.

I came here to say this

If this looks like I'm "heavy" on gun spending vs food there is a reason....

I started buying guns in 1984 (first was an AR15 and 1911 both in 1984). During the intervening 36 years I have lived through:

1986 "Firearm Owners Protection Act" (banned manufacture of full automatic firearms for civilian use)
1989 Bush Import Ban (banned importation of "non-sporting" guns like HK91/93/94 that were about $650 new before the ban ... ask me how I know)
1994 Clinton Ban (we all should know this one)

During the same 36 years the closest I've come to needing "stored food" was a half-week ice storm that made travel impossible. After four days life was basically back to normal.

Therefore, statistically your chances of having firearm/ammo/magazine availability/cost/legality infringed is MONUMENTALLY higher than needing a huge pantry of food.  Additionally, enjoying the shooting sports as a hobby is part of the "live and enjoy your life" recommendation.

Thank you.

Gary,

If you don't mind, what were your motivations for all of this? Obviously you didn't find it enjoyable. Was it all for the sake of self sufficiency or was it an attempt at a lifestyle that ultimately didn't agree with you?

Great question!

We had quite a few motivating factors:

+ We wanted more privacy than our 1/4 acre suburban house offered;
+ We wanted more opportunity to grow food (my wife is particularly interested in this);
+ We wanted off city water;
+ We wanted a property we felt could be our "retirement home / hobby / activity center";
+ We wanted the security of being out of a large neighborhood with the crime and other problems that come with them;
+ We wanted to expand our organic diet to "farm to table" fare;
+ We wanted to grow our "simple living is best" world view past the minimal things we could do in a sub-division;
+ We wanted livestock (again, my wife is big on the food production interest);
+ I wanted to have a shooting range on my property instead of driving 30 minutes each way to the range (I go to the range 2-3 times a week);
+ We wanted a basement for storm sheltering (sub-division house didn't have one);
+ We wanted to engage in the rural community lifestyle (sub-division people rarely even acknowledge their neighbors unless its to complain about the quality of your lawn);

Ultimately ... the biggest factor was ...

+ We wanted to join the "opt out" movement that was prevalent in England at the time.  It had started to catch on here, but has since become a "tiny living" exercise with environmental overtones.  We liked the Hugh Fearnly Whittingstall concept at the original River Cottage.  I was a licensed professional in an extremely high stress job that wasn't compensating me the way I wanted (and I was totally disillusioned with the professional as a whole).  My wife was 10 years into her position when her corporation had a major leadership change that made her career unbearable (she's now a licensed professional ... different than my field ... too but at the time she was just working in the industry).  We had grown weary of trying to make our sub-division lifestyle fit what we felt was important.  For example, we weren't even allowed a miniature compost turner.  We had to throw away food scraps, and that really bother my wife.  This is just a minor example.

In short, we wanted a drastic change and trying to live "simple homesteading lives" on a 1/4 acre in a heavily HOA'd sub-division wasn't cutting it.

We started to move toward FINANCIAL INDEPENDENCE at the same time.  My wife resigned her position, and I was to follow about seven years later.  To make the financial part work we started purchasing (with cash) houses that we self-performed the remodels on and then rented.  We had a very specific financial plan that would have allowed me to eventually stop practicing and stay home most of the time.

We had previously owned a few acres that we tried to build a house upon, but the estimates were insane.  We sold that acreage (at a loss) and started looking for a property with a house.  After two years we found the hobby farm we bought.  The house was only 8 years old, but the finish selections looked like something from 1970's porn or a really cheap Mexican restaurant.  It also had zero "organic farm infrastructure".  We spent a year getting the house and property ready.

The problem we had was vision vs resources.  We went WAY TOO BIG ... WAY TOO FAST.  It was miserable.  I would leave for work at 6:15am and would get home at 6:15am everyday.  My wife would be dirty and tired from tending to the family and farm but we'd trudge through to complete some task together.  It was simply too much.

We both still like the idea of a SIMPLE COUNTRY LIFE, but on a manageable scale.  We've come to realize growing all of your own food is not realistic.  This means you need to buy it.  This means you need money.

Our plan for the past 4.5 years has been FIRE (Financial Independence Retire Early).  We still support the "opt out" / "homesteading" movement but realize "large scale" requires many hands (read: younger couple with lots of able children).  A realistic approach for a middle aged couple is to do everything in life on a small scale. Live on less money. Have less house. Grow a smaller garden. Drop back to a single vehicle in retirement (we shared one SUV for five  years ... while we both worked).

A "self sufficient" life for us is now about having freedom.  Freedom from needing to work. Freedom from owning a bunch of possessions that actually own you.  Freedom from fear mongering survivalists alarmist.  This is why I'm such an advocate of "less is more" with regards to "prepping".

Hope this answers your question.  It feels like its rambling a bit.

Retired.  Live on a small farm.  Bought a freeze dryer a couple years ago.  Mostly used it to FD green chile which is great.  Venturing into FDing various other foods.  Did a batch of eggs last batch.  Now doing a batch of spaghetti sauce.  Our own FD lets us control what goes into our preps.

Previous to the FD we bought some cans of veggies, fruits, hamburger and chicken.  Our thinking was that we could use these in conjunction with stores of beans and rice.  We didn't buy any FD premade meals since a lot of them was filler - rice, noodles, beans, etc that we could add into our base FD foods as needed.  That is until I came across some cans of teriyaki beef rice and fettucini with chicken in no. 10 cans on sale at Wally's last week.  It was only 6 cans so no big deal especially as the price was less than half of regular.

The FD machine was spendy but it allows us to determine what is in our food that we process.  Plus we get to QC our foods.  I FD'd 90 eggs last week.  No 10 can of eggs is around $34.  For around $10 I processed almost 2 number 10 cans of eggs for storage.  So there are some economies there.  We'll see if the machine pays for itself in the next few years or so.  And even if it doesn't I don't really care.

Good advice. Always store what you eat and eat what you store.
I like bread made made from fresh ground hard white wheat and corn bread made with fresh ground corn. Popcorn is always good. I like dried apples, rasins, and other fruits.

I have a few case of military freeze dried pork chops, that I bought a few years ago. I have eat some that where 20 years old.

I've eat 20 year old MRE's also.

Great post!

Well... to me, the shooting sports is not a "hobby," its a right, and a right that the left would starve us out to take, and  "live and enjoy your life" includes my prepping.

Gotta mix it up. Nothing wrong with FD and meals you like. Add some other canned food, some peas to beef and pasta, seasonings you like should be stored. Mix some fresh food with it. Existing on ANY one or three meals is going to get old real quick.

If you have to bug out, the lightest and most calorie dense foods should go with you, bugging in, you have a far greater number of options to make meals from.

Thanks guys.

commitment is not money spent. You just wasted it.

Your top 5 out of 6 on your new approach is "BUY" totally wrong

Meh rant and you fucked it away and no one to blame but yourself.

you weren't committed, you just wasted money on shit, like 99% Americans.

your idea of "extreme homestead prepping" is laughable, especially when preceded by "bought" this, "spent" that

Quoting this so it doesn't get lost in the shuffle.  When shit goes down, the prepared stick out like a sore thumb. Always have more food/ water than you think you'll need.

Ever lose power for a day or two? Those with generators are noticeable. The noise(assuming you don't have an inverter) travels pretty far. Now think about how noticable  it is after 10 days.  We had power go out for two days,  it wasn't much, but driving up to our house and being the only one with lights on makes you realize how much of a beacon you are.

If you're gonna run a genny, think about noise dampeners. If you're gonna have lights(even just electric lanterns), black out your windows with contractor bags. Don't let those around you realize you aren't suffering as much as them(or make it less obvious).

MRE expiration is not so simple as a date on a box.   People throw away a lot of perfectly good MRE's.

Some of the older dark brown bag MRE's were, depending on your tastes, awful.  Mostly it would be a single item that sucked.   The rest - the crackers, the JB weld peanut butter, etc, were perfectly fine if you had sufficient water to digest them, and would really hit the spot after a hard day of working your ass off.   Saying that one would rather not eat them, assuming they meant not eating any of the MRE, shows a fundamental lack of understanding of just how truly awful food can be or how hungry people can get.

I ate my last old school brown MRE components a few years ago; I had them for almost 20 years.

The newer tan bag MRE's are mostly awesome.  There will always be one or two entrees in a case that you don't like, but for a group of people those dislikes usually don't overlap, allowing everyone to eat something they're OK with.

Does this mean people should buy a mountain of MRE's?   No, not at all.   I don't own any and don't plan to; the ones I had before were free.   But you will not find a better meal for use in a pinch that requires absolutely nothing to prepare but enough water to drink with it and to use the heater.  People should appreciate them for what they are.

.

Regarding cheap food; I think it's important to separate that the OP has learned a lot of lessons and has their food situation in hand to their satisfaction, and the comments about longer term prepping not having value.

The normal human condition is that you are lucky if you're able to sock away enough boring food with a long shelf life and some suitable extras (spices, preserves, etc) to weather ups and downs.  Some people are going to go heavy on rice and beans due to simple personal economic reality, and even that is an improvement over what most people in the world can manage.   It's common in many other parts of the world - and was much more common in the US in living memory - to have a much larger supply of preserved and storable food on hand.   I had relatives that grew up in boxcars, and they had lessons to teach.

The idea that being in North America in the 21st century is some magical talisman is what is irrational.  The problem of having food while your neighbors have none is not new; there are no surprises there for anyone not living with rose colored glasses.    You either have enough allies to keep what you have against those who would take it, or you don't.   Not living on a mountaintop doesn't change that - it simply changes what you may need to do to and your odds of success.

Stating that people will take your food doesn't really mean anything; if they're willing and able to resort to violence to take it, then you can violence them right back, and you should be in a better position to do so if you've been eating better. It's not practical for any length of time for 2 people, but 1-2 dozen is an entirely different story.  Being ready for that is part of the equation.

I have been through the personal problem of what to store and how much, what gets used, what gets wasted.   It's not all that difficult with the barest minimum of cooking skills and sufficient medical training - the biggest pitfall, as OP points out, is sinking a ton of money into expensive food of dubious edibility.   Even if you don't intend to rotate something regularly by eating it, you need to try it first.

I think camping and especially backpacking - as increasingly few families actually do anymore - is enormously valuable for teaching lessons about cooking, how far certain amounts of food and water will go, and the value of different foods in different situations.   Adversity changes your perspective.

There are different tiers of food storage.

Short, medium, long, very long, etc...

Don't completely disregard one because you prefer another.

Some folks hate the rice and beans concepts.  I consider em useful for stretching foods.  Take a can of soup and put it over the rice.  I am sure there are some soups this would not work well with, but for a lot of em you can either make a tiny can of soup a filling meal or turn the big cans of campbells soup into enough to easily feed 2 or more people.

I have been playing with storage food for a few decades now.  They all have their good and bad points and yes you should use what you store.  I tend to have a bit of everything.  From #10 cans of mountain house to pouches of mountain house to auguson farms to some mre stuff to regular grocery store bought foods.

Over the decades a lot of cans have gotten cheaper and I really am not a fan of pop top cans.  The old spam cans were more sturdy than today's cans.  Old tuna cans were larger.

If you have not dabbled in gardening then don't expect to throw some seeds out in the yard and have a nice harvest a month or two later.

Food storage and gardening, practice what you got.

This is great advice. Nice and to the point. Don't make life to complicated. We all get older and things will change as we do.

GaryT1776.....
My advice: live your your lives and stop fantasizing about "being prepared".
Again ...  here is a rational, mature, sane approach:

+ Get out of debt (including your mortgage, but it should be the last item);
+ Have a $10,000 emergency cash fund in the bank (find a vertical checking or similar that pays 1.75-3% interest so you're not losing purchasing power to inflation);
Great advice. Nice and simple. I'm staying in for now but as I get older/64 things might change.

+ Buy a top-quality AR15 (like BCM BFH, Daniel Defense, LMT CQB/MRP) with twenty mags and 3000rds of ammo;
+ Buy a Glock 19 with five mags and 2000rds of ammo;
+ Buy a Ruger 10/22 Stainless with five mags and 3000rds of ammo for each family member;
+ Buy a Benelli M2 with 500rds of ammo;
+ Store 30 days worth of food that you normally eat in your pantry (rotate it as you eat it);
+ Buy a Berkey Stainless (black filter) water filtration system;
+ Buy five cases (thirty 16.9 ounce each) of water for each family member (rotate every 36 months or keep and run through Berkey);
+ Keep a spare "jumbo case" of toilet paper on hand;
+ Keep isopropyl alcohol; peroxide; sterile gauze; sterile tape; etc on hand;
+ Build a trauma kit and keep it in the center of the house (hemostat, CAT; etc);
+ Keep prescription medications needed by your family (including epipens) handy;
+ Keep duct tape, a roll of vapor retarder, and basic tools in your garage.

Then go live your life, enjoy things, stop worrying, invest in your retirement and spend time with your family.

Add keep a reasonable amount of fuel, an alternate heating source [like a larger kerosene heater/wood stove] fuel for it. Keep vehicles topped up, an extra oil filter and oil, tire patch kit [dirt cheap] a small compressor, [better then nothing] and small walkie talkies for each family member with spare batteries. Phones may or may not work if the system overloads. Not great if family is spread out but for around the IA, they work pretty good.

Its great that an expert (TaylorWSO) has decided to join this thread.  Perhaps we can learn from your expertise.  Please do tell us what the correct path, and show some photographic examples of what you've done.  I'm sure we'd all love to learn from a master survivalist such as you.