I have my itinerant license.  I am really close to choosing a handful of mobile and handheld radios but wanted to run it through the HAM forum before I do.  I know this is not really a ham question, but I know you all are a tremendous knowledge base.

Use case is for outdoor communications.  All simplex.  Mixed semi urban and rest rolling hills.

I would like to get digital mode, and like to have encryption but I could forgo encryption if it is a less popular digital mode (or more secure...less ability for folks to eavesdrop).

Also must be able to purchase the software as I am still constantly changing my settings.

Other than that looking for recommendations of brands and radios.  Budget is a concern meaning I don’t have unlimited funds but also understand that these things cost real money.

https://www.ar15.com/forums/Outdoors/Just-picked-this-up-but-now-/22-698216/

Read this thread.
Do you know what frequency?
Will it have to be narrow band?
The later models of radios in this thread are narrow band switchable through the programming software.

Right now, I think the Anytone 578 with all the fixin's is top of my list for mobile, and the Anytone 878 is top of my list for portable.
They're incredibly good value for your dollar, and of the cheap chinese DMR radios, the best I've seen.
If Anytone is too expensive, Tytera/TYT is half the price and most of the value. Roughly equivalent models are the TYT-9600 and MD-UV380.

In either case, the programming software is freely available from the OEM on each website, you don't even need to make an account.

All four radio models mentioned above are dual band, Part 90 certified, and narrowband FM capable of course since part 90 has had the narrowband mandate for a while now.
There are tutorials on using and programming for them, and even some third party software available, including some from yours truly.

I have both VHF and UHF, thought thinking VHF since I will be operating mostly outdoors.  
Yes to narrowband.

I already have some TYT MD-390s and was hoping to get something that wasn’t direct conversion.  Not sure if the anytones are...I think they are.  

I am looking heavily at Tait or Icom but wanted to ask around for recommendations based off you all’s experiences.

Buy a handful of older XTS's.  2500, 5000's.  
The programming software is terrible, but if you're only using one freq, then it's no big deal.  
Model 1's are no-keypad-no-display, and they're not in high demand.... means you get a real good radio for cheap.

I'll add my two cents.

In my profesional experience, Motorola and Kenwood radios have the best receivers. Icom's squelch circuits aren't as good (they tend to want to unsquelch when driving under some smart streetlamps and traffic lights which use 900 MHz control systems and/or utilize first and second generation LEDs).

I would recommend looking for radios in the Motorola Commercial series, specifically CP200 portables and CM200, CM300 and PM400 mobiles (the main difference between the CM300 and PM400 being the PM is capable of LTR trunking). For ease of programming, it's really hard to beat the newer CP200d (which uses a micro-USB cable) and CM200d/300d which utilize a fairly basic 8P8C to USB programming cable (CPS 05.18_NA will likely be much easier and cheaper to obtain compared to TRBO CPS though). I would stay away from the Professional series radios such as the HT750, HT1250, and CDM750/1250 radios as while they are good products, the CPS doesn't support modern 64 bit operating systems well and the EEPROMs are starting to fail on a bunch of those radios.

I'm not as up to speed on the Kenwood radios.

Another, budget brand I often recommend are the Maxon radios. The TM-8000's are clones of Kenwood TK-x150's and the TS-2000/TS-3000 radios while low cost...are extremely durable when it comes to falls (I have several that have survived 100+ ft falls off of towers without issues).

My former show sponsor has some Kenwood LMR handis available..."open box" to help bring the cost down

https://www.mtcradio.com/open-box-kenwood-tk-3402u16p-protalk-uhf-radio-closeout/

For the combination of factors you specify I would give some thought to either Kenwood or Icom NXDN digital. Icom generally has readily available programming software which is helpful. NXDN (aka Nexedge, IDAS) is less popular than DMR or P25 as far as LMR digital systems and not many scanners can receive it. The Icom F1100/2100 radios are small and waterproof.

Thanks all.  I am still leaning heavily towards the Tait DMR system.  Seems to be just slightly more expensive then ICOM but with using DMR I can still use existing radios and or supplement with other manf radios that are DMR.  

Interestingly, driving around in my AO, UHF seems to be performing a little better than VHF.

I agree with this. But like zapzap I'm a moto whore.

The CP200d will have basic 40bit RC4 encryption. From what I understand it's a bitch to get Moto to sell you an entitlement key for AES-256 on the Trbo series radios because they would rather sell you an Astro 25 series.

I've never used a Tait radio but I've never really heard anything bad about them.

OP wanted to program his own, kinda takes current /\/\ out of the picture.

The trbo radios basic encryption does not need a KVL or such it's loaded via CPS. But yeah, for anything "stronger" a little more equipment involved.

Being the whore that I am, I have or have access to everything I need.

But, I bet OP is going to find the best pricing on the Tait gear for his needs.

I've been looking at the Anytone radios for their wide and varied capabilities. Can be used like a HAM and interact with all the UV5Rs everyone has. Can also be used on business band with encryption. I've also seen the 578 setup to do a cool single freq repeater function using dual time slots. Bluetooth to interface with discreet headsets. Seems like a very robust system.

Circling back to this thread, thanks for the input all.  

I have a question about accessibility to Motorola programming software.  I am a little confused about the different versions needed and which ones are easier to get.  I don’t mind paying for it but just really don’t want to pay $300 for software that is only good for a few years.  

What is the accessibility of software for the xts5000/2500 series like?  I understand these are older radios and not current generation.

What about the current generation TRBO radios such as the CP-200d or the XPR-3000e?  I have a feeling any of the XPR series radios will start to scare me away with pricing.  I think someone mentioned the CP-20pd has arc4 encryption so that would be sufficient for my use.

Does moto software in general work for several different radios from the same “class” or is it all single model specific?  I would probably get some mobiles and portables so there could be some cost efficiency of the software were to work with two multiple models.

Thanks.

@SnowMule
@zapzap
@TLF

And I was really looking at the Tait radios until I found out their base portables have arc4 but their mobiles have AES encryption...so the two are not compatible.  I would have to step up to the next series of portables which are like $1k a pop to match the encryption with the mobile.

It’s a shame because I really liked the Tait mobile, they offered one with a remote hand held head which was for a good overall price.

Astro 25 CPS (which is typically packaged with the Mobile CPS (for XTL and Astro Spectra Plus), Portable (for XTSx500 and XTS5000) plus the tuner CPS was typically sold in a package and I'm not sure what it costs (or if its even still available from Motorola due to how MOL works).

MotoTRBO CPS is typically sold in a subscription. 3 years for $180. Now subscription means you have access to software and firmware updates for that period from MOL. It does not mean that once the subscription expires the CPS you currently have stops working. I would however, highly recommend making sure the radios you buy have the features you want already enabled as I've heard some things about the current CPS version (many of us here use CPS 16.0, which can really be thought of as CPS 1.16.0 over the CPS 2.x currently used) regarding not being able to purchase or order entitlement IDs if a radio isn't under "warranty support" which is 3 years by default now but expandable up to 5 years. For the record, CPS 2.0 hit May 13, 2019 (May 10, 2019 was the last day I worked for a Motorola dealer). TRBO CPS will cover the entire TRBO line (though it is region specific so make sure you have NA CPS and are getting NA radios). That includes all of the XPRs, CP200d, CM200d, CM300d, MTR3000 repeaters/stations, SL series radios (SL300 and SL7500), and SLR repeaters. What it will not cover are the EVX radios (which are old Vertex radios which Motorola rebranded when they absorbed Vertex on January 1, 2018) and their are two or three different CPS applications for the various EVX radios still under support.

Commercial CPS...again I'm not sure if this is for sale any longer through Motorola as the radios are out of support now.

Professional CPS...same as Commercial CPS in terms of availability.

I will add, the TRBO radios use native USB programming cables where the Commercial and Pro radios still need serial communications at 9600 bps. The Astro 25 radios also use native USB but tend to be more expensive in terms of the portables for the most part the APX, XTL and XPR radios use the same programming cables.

When you say all of the XPR line does that include only current models or would it also include discontinued models such as xpr6000 line?

For my need it looks like some good condition xpr6550s would work fine for about half or less of what new would cost.  So now I need to see if I would be able to get software for them.

You'll need the CPS version compatible with the firmware of your radios.
I don't think the 6xxx series supports the 2.0 firmware, so you're going to be on the older 16.0 stuff.  Which is fine, it'll still do what you need.

And yeah, the 6350/6550's are cheeeeeeap now.  Onesey-twosey ham dmr stuff, probably better off with anytone/tyt/whatevers-popular only because of software cost.  But for a fleet of them?  i'd absolutely go with an EOL Moto solution vs. something ham-chinesium.  Upgrade when you need to, the 7350/7550's will all play the same game.  (But again, back to the firwmare thing, you may need to bite the bullet for another subscription to get the 2.0 stuff and maintain those version codeplugs in addition to the 1.0/eol stuff still in your fleet.)

CPS 2.x will read and write to first gen TRBO stuff. If you had access to 16.0 though, I don't know why you would read/write first gen radios with it though.

Personally, I'd stay away from the XPR6000's. They like to develop issues with the rotary encoder that controls power and volume and the displays are prone to a higher failure rate (and the display is part of the case). The XPR4000s are stable except for the 800/900 MHz versions (XPR4x80) which have some very bad frequency drift issues. By bad I mean over the course of 15 months they can drift up to 1.3 kHz...and Capacity Plus and Connect Plus will permanently show an OOR error at 300+ Hz of error.

Thanks guys.  I am deciding between the xpr6000 series which goes for $150-$200 per radio (with battery and charger, etc) on eBay or the xpr7000 series which goes for $200-$300.

Obviously the newer radio is probably better.

I’m not new to radio but new to Motorola so that’s why all of the questions.

Did you look into the XPR3500's? I really liked those as long as Connect Plus or Capacity Max trunking wasn't needed. Should also note, the XPR3000 and XPR7000's don't use SMA connectors and there is no practical way to use them as "mobiles" with external antennas.

Yea the only thing with those is it appears that enhanced privacy is not standard.  I am not familiar enough with how it would work, could I just pay for a key or something to get enhanced privacy?  Can I do that whenever I want or would it have to be at the time of purchasing he radio when new?  I see that used xpr3300s are still about $200 or more, so still pretty close in price to the used xpr7350.  Plus then I would have to pay for the enhanced encryption key per radio so I am pretty sure just getting the 7350 is better.

I saw online one person who makes a BNC adapter specially for the radios for use on a car which seems to be quality.  So understood that is a gap compared to the xpr6000 series.

Also just for kicks should I consider instead just getting a bunch of xts2500/5000?  I understand these are much older.  Is CPS for these still accessible and priced in the same ballpark as for motoTrbo?  Is there any benefit to these or not since the xpr7000 series is way newer?

I wouldn't just because of how awful that software is to use.

I actually don't think it's that bad. Moving the frequency, deviation and tone/NAC settings over to the zone channel assignment (which is similar to how it was done in TRBO CPS) was much more efficient compared to how the Astro Series worked with a large channel pool only identifiable via channel number. The real fallback with Astro 25 CPS is when you start dealing with conventional talk groups (not a great method of traffic segmentation IMO) or trunking systems as you have to recall the TGID's HEX values when using the zone channel assignment. That's where the alpha tags on APX CPS comes in handy...

Everything I am doing is either simplex or at most using a single repeater so either of them should not be too complicated.  

At this point, I’m basically just deciding between the xpr6000 series vs xpr7000.  Either way I am getting them used off eBay so understand there is a bit of a risk there.  That actually is one factor leading me towards probably getting the 7000 since they should be newer and therefore hopefully less beat up as well as only being slightly more expensive used.

Thanks for all of the help.  

In my final question, I am not sure if I understood this correctly, if I get turbo cps will that work for both the 7000/5000 series as well as the 6000/4000 series?  Or do they require two different cps?I

It'll work for all XPRs.