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Posted: 1/13/2021 8:32:41 AM EDT
[#1]
The new Alinco DJ-MD5XT has AES 256bit Encryption in digital mode.
https://www.remtronix.com/land-mobile-radio/digital-radios/dj-md5xt/ |
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Posted: 1/13/2021 8:51:19 AM EDT
[#2]
Inexpensive?
TYT MD UV 380 $84.95 http://www.randl.com/shop/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=74325&osCsid=j2hdc8ko22imafv0upvnub9eh7 I think they just had a sale on a 3 pack for $189? They come with the cable and the software is free. Not sure if its actual AES but it has encryption and the price is right. |
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Posted: 1/13/2021 9:08:11 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Inexpensive? TYT MD UV 380 $84.95 http://www.randl.com/shop/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=74325&osCsid=j2hdc8ko22imafv0upvnub9eh7 I think they just had a sale on a 3 pack for $189? They come with the cable and the software is free. Not sure if its actual AES but it has encryption and the price is right. Definitely not actual AES. |
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Posted: 1/13/2021 9:53:20 AM EDT
[#4]
Has anyone had any luck with AES encryption on the Anytones? I haven’t been able to get the radios to works consistently when encrypted.
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Posted: 1/13/2021 10:05:11 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Has anyone had any luck with AES encryption on the Anytones? I haven’t been able to get the radios to works consistently when encrypted. I have one but haven’t been able to play with it yet. Only the single unit. |
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Posted: 1/13/2021 10:06:13 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The new Alinco DJ-MD5XT has AES 256bit Encryption in digital mode. https://www.remtronix.com/land-mobile-radio/digital-radios/dj-md5xt/ Thanks and list updated |
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Posted: 1/13/2021 10:07:14 AM EDT
[#7]
Quoted: Inexpensive? TYT MD UV 380 $84.95 http://www.randl.com/shop/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=74325&osCsid=j2hdc8ko22imafv0upvnub9eh7 I think they just had a sale on a 3 pack for $189? They come with the cable and the software is free. Not sure if its actual AES but it has encryption and the price is right. Quoted: Definitely not actual AES. Most of the Chinese DMR that say encryption just have the feature called Normal and enhanced listed in the CPS. |
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Posted: 1/13/2021 10:18:53 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The new Alinco DJ-MD5XT has AES 256bit Encryption in digital mode. https://www.remtronix.com/land-mobile-radio/digital-radios/dj-md5xt/ Looking at the product sheet on this it shows 32 encryption codes. So does not sound like it's too secure. Does not say if it's AES or not. |
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Posted: 1/13/2021 10:37:26 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Looking at the product sheet on this it shows 32 encryption codes. So does not sound like it's too secure. Does not say if it's AES or not. On other radios, I would understand that phrasing to mean 32 key slots, not 5 bit keys. |
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Posted: 1/13/2021 10:42:52 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: On other radios, I would understand that phrasing to mean 32 key slots, not 5 bit keys. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Looking at the product sheet on this it shows 32 encryption codes. So does not sound like it's too secure. Does not say if it's AES or not. On other radios, I would understand that phrasing to mean 32 key slots, not 5 bit keys. Not a bad point. I didn't read it all through. I run AES on moto gear... So that's what I know well. |
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Posted: 1/13/2021 10:46:04 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Has anyone had any luck with AES encryption on the Anytones? I haven’t been able to get the radios to works consistently when encrypted. @GreenDragon |
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Posted: 1/13/2021 10:48:21 AM EDT
[#12]
I thought encryption was not permitted on amateur radio frequencies. What am I missing?
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Posted: 1/13/2021 10:50:36 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I thought encryption was not permitted on amateur radio frequencies. What am I missing? It's a ham forum in name, but it's really a generic radio forum in practice. A big chunk of us now have commercial licenses, where encryption is allowed. Also: Encryption on ham bands |
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Posted: 1/13/2021 11:08:41 AM EDT
[#14]
So TYTs 380/399 series isn't actual AES? Easily monitored?
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Posted: 1/13/2021 11:23:51 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So TYTs 380/399 series isn't actual AES? Easily monitored? If I had to guess a lot of those kinda radios are RC4 encryption. So, 40 bit encryption. Think WEP encryption for WiFi. It's easily broken. Same as ADP encryption on a Moto radio. Very basic. Now, with that said, do I know how to break it? No... Is it secure, no, does it keep the average joe from listening to you? Yes... It all just depends on what you're goals are. I choose AES because it's actual security. Do I still use ADP and such, sure. |
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Posted: 1/13/2021 11:24:40 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So TYTs 380/399 series isn't actual AES? Easily monitored? Not that I'm aware of. I wouldn't expect it to be safe from nation-states, or if it becomes national news. It'll stop the scanners and hams and other random people from hearing you until and unless someone releases a way to break it. |
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Posted: 1/13/2021 11:59:45 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Has anyone had any luck with AES encryption on the Anytones? I haven’t been able to get the radios to works consistently when encrypted. @japsw20 I have had success with the Anytones. I've had 4 878s and 1 578 talking. It's my understanding that the 868 can't use the AES. That's why the 578/878 has the "common" encryption, so it can talk to 868s encrypted. Disclaimer. All of the encryption I've done is on business band under a business license with business FCC callsign on the radios. If you have any questions on set up, let me know. If this thread gets canned because it's not considered ham, IM me. |
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Posted: 1/13/2021 12:51:30 PM EDT
[#18]
Some differences I've noticed in the encryption setups of the Anytone 878 and the TYT 390.
Anytone 878: 2 types available: Common and AES Common: 32 encryptions, each with a 4 character encryption ID and 32 character encryption keys. These are all preprogrammed into the codeplug. The encryption ID can be changed at will * (ex: AF09). The encryption key can not be changed. Encryption keys 1-16 are different, but have a lot of repetition between strings of the encryption(ex: factory, "I like the number/letter combo of 4422 and CC, so I'm going to make sure it's in every key"). Keys 17-32 are the exact same key. The underlined section is wrong. These keys can be changed. The encryption ID is changed as described above (ex:AF09). Go to encryption key, where it has the 32 characters. You only get to type in four characters. Type in the same characters as encryption ID, AF09. It will come up with a predetermined 32 character key for AF09. You have no say in what characters are chosen. AES: 255 encryptions, each with 2 character encryption ID and 64 character encryption keys. Nothing of use is preprogrammed into the codeplug. The encryption ID can be changed, but only to OFF and 1-255. The ID numbers can be out of order (ex: slot 112 is ID number 8). The encryption key can be changed, up to 64 characters. All 64 characters do not need to be used, but the codeplug will automatically add zeros to the beginning of the key to fill out the balance (ex: type in a 9876 as the key, it will save as 60 zeros followed by 9876). TYT390 2 types available: Basic and Enhanced Basic: 16 encryptions, each with a set encryption ID and 4 character encryption key. The encryption IDs cannot be renamed or moved around. The encryption keys can be changed at will *. Enhanced: 8 encryptions, each with a set encryption ID and 32 character encryption key. The encryption IDs cannot be renamed or moved around. The encryption keys can be changed at will *. Both Anytone and TYT use 0-9, A-F for characters. * all of these settings will auto fill with zeros as explained in A878 AES. Edit to fix mistake on my part. |
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Posted: 1/13/2021 1:11:37 PM EDT
[#19]
A bit of visual representation.
Anytone 878 -AES shown, there are 255 of these lines. Common not shown.  Attached FileTYT 390- Basic and Enhanced shown.  Attached File |
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Posted: 1/13/2021 3:09:09 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It's a ham forum in name, but it's really a generic radio forum in practice. A big chunk of us now have commercial licenses, where encryption is allowed. Also: Encryption on ham bands Interesting on the commercial, maybe I should collect that one too! Skimmed through the pdf, an interesting take on obscuring. I don’t agree with their conclusions based on my interpretation, but thanks for providing, I’ll read through it all. Would open up some interesting possibilities. |
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Posted: 1/13/2021 4:33:11 PM EDT
[#21]
Quoted: Some differences I've noticed in the encryption setups of the Anytone 878 and the TYT 390. Anytone 878: 2 types available: Common and AES Common: 32 encryptions, each with a 4 character encryption ID and 32 character encryption keys. These are all preprogrammed into the codeplug. The encryption ID can be changed at will * (ex: AF09). The encryption key can not be changed. Encryption keys 1-16 are different, but have a lot of repetition between strings of the encryption(ex: factory, "I like the number/letter combo of 4422 and CC, so I'm going to make sure it's in every key"). Keys 17-32 are the exact same key. AES: 255 encryptions, each with 2 character encryption ID and 64 character encryption keys. Nothing of use is preprogrammed into the codeplug. The encryption ID can be changed, but only to OFF and 1-255. The ID numbers can be out of order (ex: slot 112 is ID number 8). The encryption key can be changed, up to 64 characters. All 64 characters do not need to be used, but the codeplug will automatically add zeros to the beginning of the key to fill out the balance (ex: type in a 9876 as the key, it will save as 60 zeros followed by 9876). * all of these settings will auto fill with zeros as explained in A878 AES. Re: 878 AES Couple of clarification questions: What "Model Information > Frequencys [sic]" do you use on the radios? What version of SCT3258 do you use on the radios? For the 64 character key, can I use any encryption key generator as long as it's 256 bit and hex? Thank you. |
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Posted: 1/13/2021 5:51:17 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Re: 878 AES Couple of clarification questions: What "Model Information > Frequencys [sic]" do you use on the radios? What version of SCT3258 do you use on the radios? For the 64 character key, can I use any encryption key generator as long as it's 256 bit and hex? Thank you. For the encryption i use the business frequencies. I don't know if it's still the case, but Anytones were shipped either ham bands or commercial band. They are the same radio set to different modes. The modes can be switched. Tougher to do, different modes can be chosen that include all of the commercial and ham freqs, including the 220 band. From what I've gathered, the stock antenna isn't good for the 220, but someone can get a diamond SRH320A with adapter. SCT3258 is v2.01.07ba which i believe is the latest. That's on the HTs. I assume the mobiles are the same. I don't know about any of the random number generators, I haven't used them. I also don't know if the keys can be cut and pasted. I have punched them in by hand, the slow and dumb method. |
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Posted: 1/13/2021 5:58:12 PM EDT
[#23]
Inexpensive HT's with AES Encryption:
Any P25 radio that supports AES (has to support it in hardware) and no it doesn't require expensive software...just a variable key loader (which there is an opensource one which can be purchased for around $200) as key loading is part of the P25 spec and is standard in the serial protocol. Just as an example, you can often buy EF Johnson 5100 radios at surplus all day long (they were common at USAF installations) and most, if not all of them have the AES cyrpto module in them (which just so happens to be a Motorola part and is the same one used in the XTS3000...and the AES option was not commonly sold on the XTS3000). Another place you can find them is with federal surplus Astro Sabers (I have 7 or so with the very rare AES cyrpto modules). |
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Posted: 1/13/2021 7:14:07 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: For the encryption i use the business frequencies. I don't know if it's still the case, but Anytones were shipped either ham bands or commercial band. They are the same radio set to different modes. The modes can be switched. Tougher to do, different modes can be chosen that include all of the commercial and ham freqs, including the 220 band. From what I've gathered, the stock antenna isn't good for the 220, but someone can get a diamond SRH320A with adapter. SCT3258 is v2.01.07ba which i believe is the latest. That's on the HTs. I assume the mobiles are the same. I don't know about any of the random number generators, I haven't used them. I also don't know if the keys can be cut and pasted. I have punched them in by hand, the slow and dumb method. Do you recall which mode you are using? Also, if you're not using a number generator, how did you come up with the 64 characters for the AES code? Thanks. |
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Posted: 1/13/2021 7:18:45 PM EDT
[#25]
Mode 0014 will get you full range of the radio.
My method of getting characters is pretty primitive, almost like pulling numbers out of a hat. |
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Posted: 1/13/2021 9:07:25 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Looking at the product sheet on this it shows 32 encryption codes. So does not sound like it's too secure. Does not say if it's AES or not.  Attached FileThis is the newly released Alinco DJ-MD5XT...not the old one with 32 encryption codes. It is a Part 90 Certified radio for those that care. |
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Posted: 1/13/2021 9:12:22 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Mode 0014 will get you full range of the radio. My method of getting characters is pretty primitive, almost like pulling numbers out of a hat. Thank you! |
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Posted: 1/14/2021 4:55:34 AM EDT
[#28]
Read where someone said TYTs system, basic or advanced, transmits the "key" over the air, and can be scanned, and captured, like a fancy pl tone.
That can't possibly be true, can it? Is deciphering it something some marginal goon hacker could do with the right gear? |
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Posted: 1/14/2021 9:28:40 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Read where someone said TYTs system, basic or advanced, transmits the "key" over the air, and can be scanned, and captured, like a fancy pl tone. That can't possibly be true, can it? Is deciphering it something some marginal goon hacker could do with the right gear? Post the link? Basic encryption on just about every radio is crap. The keyspace is often so small it can be brute-forced trivially, or implemented so poorly it doesn't need to be brute-forced. That doesn't mean just anyone can do it, but the bar is a lot lower than "nation-state resources" and closer to "weekend project" for someone that knows what they're doing. TYT Enhanced encryption? I don't know. Depending on how TYT did the enhanced encryption, it could be as easy to break as Basic. Don't view encryption as a checkbox for security, view it as a higher barrier to monitoring and act accordingly. That includes AES. Even basic encryption probably takes monitoring out of the realm of anyone in your local area, and enhanced a little more so. |
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Posted: 1/14/2021 10:40:04 AM EDT
[#30]
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Posted: 1/14/2021 10:44:29 AM EDT
[#31]
I can also confirm the baofeng DM-1701 does not have AES.
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Posted: 1/14/2021 11:37:47 AM EDT
[#32]
@swampfoxoutdoors
Is that 868 codeplug page from your radio? I was playing with my 878 codeplug today on the Common and found some interesting results, which I clarified in my long post above. I would like to compare something with someone who has a 868. |
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Posted: 1/14/2021 12:03:51 PM EDT
[#33]
Read elsewhere that Anytone's AES implementation on the 878 is compatible with Motorola. Which would seem to make it the best choice.
But perhaps our pro folks can chime in. |
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Posted: 1/14/2021 12:10:27 PM EDT
[#34]
I would like to know more about that as well. I don't know anyone local with Motorola. This is what the bottom of the 878 codeplug says:
 Attached File |
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Posted: 1/14/2021 12:15:45 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: @swampfoxoutdoors Is that 868 codeplug page from your radio? I was playing with my 878 codeplug today on the Common and found some interesting results, which I clarified in my long post above. I would like to compare something with someone who has a 868. Thats just from the 868 software. Our department bought 3 to tryout. I dont have one currently they are all out in guys hands. But when clicking on the 868 encryption list this is all that pulls up. Not sure what type/bit/ level it is but doesn't show AES like the 878 CPS does for my personal ham use radio.  Attached File |
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Posted: 1/14/2021 12:34:10 PM EDT
[#36]
Are you able to type in 32 characters in the enhanced box? Or is that number a predetermined number associated with your 4 digit normal box?
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Posted: 1/14/2021 12:56:20 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Are you able to type in 32 characters in the enhanced box? Or is that number a predetermined number associated with your 4 digit normal box? yes you can change the enhanced encryption portion. |
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Posted: 1/14/2021 1:16:42 PM EDT
[#38]
I can change the 32 character key. But only by entering a 4 digit key.
My 0101 comes up with a pre-determined number. I do not have the option to type in 32 characters, only 4. This is my 0101  Attached FileI for your 868 and my 878 to talk, we would need the same 32 digit number. You can type in 32 digits, I can't. So I would have to enter my 4 digit key 0101, and get my assigned 32 character number. Send it to you, and you type in those 32 characters. If you couldn't type in 32, then both of our 32 character numbers would be the same with our 0101. Does this sound right? |
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Posted: 1/14/2021 2:06:25 PM EDT
[#39]
Looks like the Baofeng DMR 6x2 has AES, according to this:
https://baofengtech.com/product/dmr-6x2/ I get the feeling it's a rebrand Alinco or Anytone. No way to know though. |
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Posted: 1/14/2021 2:08:19 PM EDT
[#40]
Double tap.
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Posted: 1/14/2021 2:30:22 PM EDT
[#41]
https://baofengtech.com/product/dmr-6x2/
A $210 BaoFeng... 
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Posted: 1/14/2021 2:51:11 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: https://baofengtech.com/product/dmr-6x2/ A $210 BaoFeng... That looks identical to the anytone. |
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Posted: 1/14/2021 3:08:01 PM EDT
[#43]
For a few bucks more, I'd stick with the Anytone. A place like bridgecomsystems has support staff that will answer an email or return a phone call. Plus they have a lot of tutorials and a "university" to get info.
I'm not trying to push these guys. I'm pushing customer service after the sale. I was having problems with another Chinese brand radio. I had an extremely difficult time finding any help, there weren't even many videos about it. Still don't have my problems resolved with it. |
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Posted: 1/14/2021 3:26:51 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: https://baofengtech.com/product/dmr-6x2/ A $210 BaoFeng... They are going up in value! No joke I bought my wife the aforementioned DM-1701. Its a decent radio and looked to get another. Nope I paid $60 for hers and now they are $99.99 |
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Posted: 1/14/2021 3:46:51 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: https://baofengtech.com/product/dmr-6x2/ A $210 BaoFeng... I know! It's one reason I suspect some kind of rebranding thing. |
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Posted: 1/14/2021 3:59:09 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: For a few bucks more, I'd stick with the Anytone. A place like bridgecomsystems has support staff that will answer an email or return a phone call. Plus they have a lot of tutorials and a "university" to get info. I'm not trying to push these guys. I'm pushing customer service after the sale. I was having problems with another Chinese brand radio. I had an extremely difficult time finding any help, there weren't even many videos about it. Still don't have my problems resolved with it. I'll second this. Origins aside, the Anytone is very well supported. Half the issues you have with these things are software/firmware related, Anytone is well sorted there. Just because someone is selling the same hardware in a different case doesn't make it a deal. |
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Posted: 1/14/2021 7:46:08 PM EDT
[#47]
I've been using the MD-UV390 on my itinerant license. They do have AES. However, common to radios in this price range, they leak RF back through the side connector. That makes DMR with a headset basically a non-starter. I've talked with manufacturers of PTTs and tried completely covering the downlead with ferrites to no avail. The only thing that stops it is to bend the downlead to a 90º angle, which isn't practical for my use cases.
So I'm looking for another dual band DMR radio in that general price range before I say screw it and stick to my monoband Motorolas and just standardize on very expensive PTTs. I had a glimmer of hope with the DJ-MD5XT until I saw this on Alinco's web page: ATTEMPTED USE WITH 3RD PARTY MICROPHONE VOIDS WARRANTY AND MAY RESULT IN PERMANENT DAMAGE TO THE RADIO 
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Posted: 1/14/2021 8:14:13 PM EDT
[#48]
I use my TYT MD-UV380s with Heil Headphones with mikes all the time with no issues.
Voiding the warranty on an $80 HT ? Not a worry for me on an $80 HT. I'm more worried about messing up my fine $34 headset!  https://www.dxengineering.com/parts/hls-hthd-k Another option Ive used is to plug a headset w/o mic into the headset jack of this: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01M5GT21B This would not be a warranty breaker |
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Posted: 1/14/2021 9:22:01 PM EDT
[#49]
Is encryption the priority? Why are you choosing AES if so? DES I believe is a stronger standard. Pickup some used motorolas, a KVL and you're good to go.
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Posted: 1/14/2021 9:38:43 PM EDT
[#50]
Motorola xts
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