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Posted: 6/4/2023 7:47:35 AM EDT
[#1]
Hook up your rigexpert and find the resonant frequency of the antenna.
BTW, the manufacturer recommends a ground radial and states best performance with one. Then either lengthen or shorten as needed to bring the resonant frequency to your preferred operating frequency. |
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Posted: 6/4/2023 8:50:38 AM EDT
[#2]
Looking deeper into the specs for that end-fed, I don't think its really the best option for you.
You might want to look into a 49:1 balun with around 68-70ft of wire. Plenty of homebrewing options around $45 or so. Kits are out there too. Ham Radio Crash Course Building an End-fed Half-wave antenna |
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Posted: 6/4/2023 11:21:19 AM EDT
[#3]
I've had the EMCOMM II antenna since 2017. It's decent enough ("Not great. Not terrible"
 ). I replaced the original 60ft with a longer wire run (73? ft) and that helped quite a bit. It also definitely does better with a counterpoise.
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Posted: 6/4/2023 11:57:07 AM EDT
[#4]
Hey guys, I took some of the advice and went back to an old antenna. It is an efhw 40:10 with a 49:1 transformer. Ultimax efhw. My rig expert shows the swr on 7.078.00 to be 1 56:1 or so. My problem is, just like with the last antenna, the ic7300 will not show me an swr and also when I try to tune it, it indicates that it cannot find a match.
I thought maybe the radio doesn't need to tune the frequency due to it already being a low enough swr. If this were the case though, I would think it would still show an swr. I am seeing no reading at all. By the way, I have called Icom support. Their support was terrible. This definitely makes me want to get a yaesu. The one time I used their support it was fantastic. |
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Posted: 6/4/2023 12:02:55 PM EDT
[#5]
When checking the SWR I am assuming you are in CW, FM or similar to get a carrier tone?
As far as the tuning, I would agree it's likely because it's already low enough. But I'm really not sure if Icom does that, but you're also saying it's just chattering without finding a match. I'll try later on when I get home. I'm almost 1:1 on my Hustler on low side of 40. I'll see what it does on my 7300. |
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Posted: 6/4/2023 12:23:51 PM EDT
[#6]
My 7300 does a good job of matching 5:1 on 30 Meters and above. On the lower bands it will match above the SWR specs.
Why don't you build a tuner? https://mfjenterprises.com/products/mfj-941ek There a link to the manual at the link so you can see if you're comfortable putting it together. Contrary to popular opinion, manual tuners are not hard to operate. Just follow the instructions and log the settings for each band and it will only take a few seconds to return to them each time you change bands |
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Posted: 6/4/2023 12:50:33 PM EDT
[#7]
Quoted: I have an ic7300 with a chameleon e-commerce ii end fed antenna. The antenna uses a 5 to 1 transformer Specs for emcom ii. My antenna is setup about 20' off the ground in a horizontal wire configuration. When I hook my rig expert to the antenna, it indicates that on 40 m JS8call, the swr is 2.6 to 2.8. When doing a bar chart, my Ic7300 indicates the swr is 2 to 1 but it will not tune the antenna. It will not tune the antenna on regular or emergency mode. I am about to buy an external tuner. Is there anything I should try before buying the tuner? I would prefer not to have to buy one and it seems like with the swr being inside of 3 to 1, that the internal tuner should suffice. I really expected it to tune ok in emergency mode. It did not. This has really thrown me for a loop and im concerned that the external tuner will also not work due to a larger issue. What does the 7300 do when you say it doesn't tune the antenna? What are you doing and what is the 7300 doing or not doing? What do you mean by this. How doe you use the rig expert and JS8 at the same time? When I hook my rig expert to the antenna, it indicates that on 40 m JS8call, the swr is 2.6 to 2.8 |
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Posted: 6/4/2023 1:21:54 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: When checking the SWR I am assuming you are in CW, FM or similar to get a carrier tone? As far as the tuning, I would agree it's likely because it's already low enough. But I'm really not sure if Icom does that, but you're also saying it's just chattering without finding a match. I'll try later on when I get home. I'm almost 1:1 on my Hustler on low side of 40. I'll see what it does on my 7300. I am on cw when trying to tune. The radio is set at 10 watts. When I hold down tune, the tune light flashes I hear relays click for a split second, and then the tune light goes off. When I use the bar chart feature on the 7300 it shows no bars. |
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Posted: 6/4/2023 1:23:41 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My 7300 does a good job of matching 5:1 on 30 Meters and above. On the lower bands it will match above the SWR specs. Why don't you build a tuner? https://mfjenterprises.com/products/mfj-941ek There a link to the manual at the link so you can see if you're comfortable putting it together. Contrary to popular opinion, manual tuners are not hard to operate. Just follow the instructions and log the settings for each band and it will only take a few seconds to return to them each time you change bands I might wind up doing that but at this point I really want to understand what is happening with the 7300. I am wondering if either the tuning feature on the radio is broken or there is another issue that is going on, which an external tuner would only cover up (or might not even fix it). |
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Posted: 6/4/2023 1:27:47 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What does the 7300 do when you say it doesn't tune the antenna? What are you doing and what is the 7300 doing or not doing? What do you mean by this. How doe you use the rig expert and JS8 at the same time? When I hold down tune, the tune light flashes I hear relays click for a split second, and then the tune light goes off. From what i understand this means a tune was not achieved. When I use the bar chart feature on the 7300 it shows no bars. I expected it to show something. As far as the rig expert and js8call, I am not using them at the same time. I am analyzing the swr on the 40m frequency that js8call uses. I am nit using them both at the same time. Sorry for the confusion. |
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Posted: 6/4/2023 2:13:18 PM EDT
[#11]
Plug in a dummy load or resonant antenna or something and see if the radio will tune.
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Posted: 6/4/2023 2:20:28 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Plug in a dummy load or resonant antenna or something and see if the radio will tune. I tried a dummy load. It was able to tune on 7.078.00. The tune indicator stayed on after I long pressed the tune button. I did briefly hear a noise like relays flashing. |
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Posted: 6/4/2023 2:23:51 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I am on cw when trying to tune. The radio is set at 10 watts. When I hold down tune, the tune light flashes I hear relays click for a split second, and then the tune light goes off. When I use the bar chart feature on the 7300 it shows no bars. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: When checking the SWR I am assuming you are in CW, FM or similar to get a carrier tone? As far as the tuning, I would agree it's likely because it's already low enough. But I'm really not sure if Icom does that, but you're also saying it's just chattering without finding a match. I'll try later on when I get home. I'm almost 1:1 on my Hustler on low side of 40. I'll see what it does on my 7300. I am on cw when trying to tune. The radio is set at 10 watts. When I hold down tune, the tune light flashes I hear relays click for a split second, and then the tune light goes off. When I use the bar chart feature on the 7300 it shows no bars. Hitting the tune button to start the tune cycle is a constant 6 watts or so, you can do that with the radio set to 100 watts and it still tunes at 6 watts. You can do this with any mode ( CW, SSB, AM, etc), it doesn't matter when you hit the tune button to start the tune cycle Showing no bars after the tune cycle means the radio has tuned the entire band, or the freqs you selected if not the whole band based on the step settings, to SWR 1.0 to 1 You will see the word TUNE at the upper left of the display. That means the tuner found a solution and is still in tune mode. If you initiate the tune cycle whether for the band or of an individual frequency, and the tuner does not achieve a solution, the word TUNE will not be on the upper left of the display and the radio tuner will no longer be selected. ETA: for the SWR graph, I was wrong you do need to go to a carrier mode like CW and step through the graph points and it does matter watt power you have set. |
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Posted: 6/4/2023 2:44:21 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Hitting the tune button to start the tune cycle is a constant 6 watts or so, you can do that with the radio set to 100 watts and it still tunes at 6 watts. You can do this with any mode ( CW, SSB, AM, etc), it doesn't matter when you hit the tune button to start the tune cycle Showing no bars after the tune cycle means the radio has tuned the entire band, or the freqs you selected if not the whole band based on the step settings, to SWR 1.0 to 1 You will see the word TUNE at the upper left of the display. That means the tuner found a solution and is still in tune mode. If you initiate the tune cycle whether for the band or of an individual frequency, and the tuner does not achieve a solution, the word TUNE will not be on the upper left of the display and the radio tuner will no longer be selected. Thank you very much for the info. It is very helpful. I was able to hook up a dummy load, push tune, and achieve a tune. The tune indictator stayed lit in the upper left hand corner. I then went into the menu and selected the option to erase all tuning presets. I then hooked the efhw back up. I then did the exact same tune procedure and it will not tune. After pressing tune for a split second I hear a relay and then it shuts off. The tune indicator in the upper left corner does not come on. I then went to menu, swr, and did the 5 bar swr graph. It doesn't show any bars. I'm puzzled because based on the way the tune light does not pop on I'd say it isn't tuned, however the swr bar graph doesn't show any bars. I just find it odd that this ic7300 cannot tune my efhw at 1.6 swr and that chameleon emcomm at 2.8 swr. Could there be something wrong with my setup that causes the ic7300 not to tune even though the swr is well within its 1:3 range? Thanks again for everyone help! You guys have already been more helpful than icom support. |
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Posted: 6/4/2023 2:50:47 PM EDT
[#15]
So-called end-fed antennas frequently have high levels of RF on the coax shield. This can create problems.
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Posted: 6/4/2023 3:02:42 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So-called end-fed antennas frequently have high levels of RF on the coax shield. This can create problems. I have been intentionally not adding anything else in line for gear of making too many changes and introducing too many variables. I do have a common mode noise filter. Should I put it inline? Might it help? It is one of these. Common mode noise filter |
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Posted: 6/4/2023 3:57:36 PM EDT
[#17]
I have that antenna. I have used a 25' counterpoise from day one and have had no problems.
I dont have a Icm 7300. |
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Posted: 6/4/2023 4:19:46 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I am on cw when trying to tune. The radio is set at 10 watts. When I hold down tune, the tune light flashes I hear relays click for a split second, and then the tune light goes off. When I use the bar chart feature on the 7300 it shows no bars. |
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Posted: 6/4/2023 4:35:34 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Thank you very much for the info. It is very helpful. I was able to hook up a dummy load, push tune, and achieve a tune. The tune indictator stayed lit in the upper left hand corner. I then went into the menu and selected the option to erase all tuning presets. I then hooked the efhw back up. I then did the exact same tune procedure and it will not tune. After pressing tune for a split second I hear a relay and then it shuts off. The tune indicator in the upper left corner does not come on. I then went to menu, swr, and did the 5 bar swr graph. It doesn't show any bars. I'm puzzled because based on the way the tune light does not pop on I'd say it isn't tuned, however the swr bar graph doesn't show any bars. I just find it odd that this ic7300 cannot tune my efhw at 1.6 swr and that chameleon emcomm at 2.8 swr. Could there be something wrong with my setup that causes the ic7300 not to tune even though the swr is well within its 1:3 range? Thanks again for everyone help! You guys have already been more helpful than icom support. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Hitting the tune button to start the tune cycle is a constant 6 watts or so, you can do that with the radio set to 100 watts and it still tunes at 6 watts. You can do this with any mode ( CW, SSB, AM, etc), it doesn't matter when you hit the tune button to start the tune cycle Showing no bars after the tune cycle means the radio has tuned the entire band, or the freqs you selected if not the whole band based on the step settings, to SWR 1.0 to 1 You will see the word TUNE at the upper left of the display. That means the tuner found a solution and is still in tune mode. If you initiate the tune cycle whether for the band or of an individual frequency, and the tuner does not achieve a solution, the word TUNE will not be on the upper left of the display and the radio tuner will no longer be selected. Thank you very much for the info. It is very helpful. I was able to hook up a dummy load, push tune, and achieve a tune. The tune indictator stayed lit in the upper left hand corner. I then went into the menu and selected the option to erase all tuning presets. I then hooked the efhw back up. I then did the exact same tune procedure and it will not tune. After pressing tune for a split second I hear a relay and then it shuts off. The tune indicator in the upper left corner does not come on. I then went to menu, swr, and did the 5 bar swr graph. It doesn't show any bars. I'm puzzled because based on the way the tune light does not pop on I'd say it isn't tuned, however the swr bar graph doesn't show any bars. I just find it odd that this ic7300 cannot tune my efhw at 1.6 swr and that chameleon emcomm at 2.8 swr. Could there be something wrong with my setup that causes the ic7300 not to tune even though the swr is well within its 1:3 range? Thanks again for everyone help! You guys have already been more helpful than icom support. Can you go to a band that the tuner will not match, something below the half wave length say 160 meters and try to tune it at 10 watts and watch what happens. You should definitely see bars and it will cycle through relays for a long time. I am going out to my truck and see what my radio does, BRB |
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Posted: 6/4/2023 4:37:13 PM EDT
[#20]
For the heck of it, I hooked my g90 up to the antenna. I know the g90 has a wider tuning range but figured it might be helpful to know if through g90 can tune it. The g90 tuned it fine without much issue.
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Posted: 6/4/2023 4:38:30 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Can you go to a band that the tuner will not match, something below the half wave length say 160 meters and try to tune it at 10 watts and watch what happens. You should definitely see bars and it will cycle through relays for a long time. I am going out to my truck and see what my radio does, BRB Absolutely, I will try that when I get back to my radio.... later this evening. |
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Posted: 6/4/2023 4:40:59 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If it's clicking and stopping makes me wonder if it's finding a match pretty quick since it isn't too awfully bad from the start. Would explain the lack of SWR on the radio meter. I am starting to think the same. I did blow up another radio though by transmitting into a high swr (different radio, antenna, and it was portable whereas this one is at the shack). After that experience, I am a little gun shy to start transmitting without knowing for sure that the swr is ok. |
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Posted: 6/4/2023 4:43:11 PM EDT
[#23]
Am I correct in thinking that if worst case, the swr is 1:6 to 1 and if I transmit into this swr without tuning, that it will not blow up the radio or have any permanent negative impacts? Of course I would see a decrease in transmit power and efficient of signal.
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Posted: 6/4/2023 4:44:53 PM EDT
[#24]
I had to check my 7300 in my truck.
If you do the graph it shows the SWR at each step but it does not actually tune or store, I believe. You then have to get out of graph mode, select the freq you want, then press tune button until it makes noise. If TUNE is still displayed, the tuner has found a solution and has stored it. If you do this across the band, it will click as you change freqs selecting the solution that is stored. If you do the graph and step through it, and no bars show, you have a flat 1.0 SWR across the frequencies. |
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Posted: 6/4/2023 4:46:09 PM EDT
[#25]
What does the swr indicator show after you try the tune function? I mean the one on the regular display during normal operation not the analyzer bars function. Do it on cw or FM and let us know.
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Posted: 6/4/2023 4:47:00 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I have that antenna. I have used a 25' counterpoise from day one and have had no problems. I dont have a Icm 7300. Did you get a comparison as to whether adding the 25' counterpoise helped? How long of a length of coax do you have running to the antenna? |
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Posted: 6/4/2023 4:53:57 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Am I correct in thinking that if worst case, the swr is 1:6 to 1 and if I transmit into this swr without tuning, that it will not blow up the radio or have any permanent negative impacts? Of course I would see a decrease in transmit power and efficient of signal. The IC-7300 should fold back the power on high SWR to protect the finals. I have seen it do this. If you watch the power and it isn't peaking at 100% on SSB, it is folding back and reducing power output. Of course if the protection fails, you can damage the finals |
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Posted: 6/4/2023 5:35:22 PM EDT
[#28]
Like said above, hit tune and then just check normal faceplate meter.
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Posted: 6/4/2023 6:14:16 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Did you get a comparison as to whether adding the 25' counterpoise helped? How long of a length of coax do you have running to the antenna? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I have that antenna. I have used a 25' counterpoise from day one and have had no problems. I dont have a Icm 7300. Did you get a comparison as to whether adding the 25' counterpoise helped? How long of a length of coax do you have running to the antenna? I dont run non-resonants without a counterpoise. But if I did, i would probably use a 50' or more length of feedline with an RF choke at the end to help. |
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Posted: 6/4/2023 7:58:05 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Absolutely, I will try that when I get back to my radio.... later this evening. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Can you go to a band that the tuner will not match, something below the half wave length say 160 meters and try to tune it at 10 watts and watch what happens. You should definitely see bars and it will cycle through relays for a long time. I am going out to my truck and see what my radio does, BRB Absolutely, I will try that when I get back to my radio.... later this evening. I tried tuning at 160 meters. Oddly enough, it pretty much did the same thing. I very briefly heard a relay click and then it stopped. The tune indicator did not stay lit. This is exactly what happened with the other bands. I did not hear the radio and relays try and hunt for a match. It was quick. |
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Posted: 6/4/2023 8:09:36 PM EDT
[#31]
Just tapping TUNE turns it on and off, are you holding it to tune?
When the SWR bars are black (no bars) it is pretty well tuned. |
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Posted: 6/4/2023 8:18:06 PM EDT
[#32]
When you check the SWR bargraph, you are setting the number of steps and the spread of the step
AND you are pressing the PTT key on the side of the mike for EACH step correct? In other words if you selected 13 steps you must press the PTT 13 times . |
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Posted: 6/4/2023 8:38:34 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Just tapping TUNE turns it on and off, are you holding it to tune? When the SWR bars are black (no bars) it is pretty well tuned. Yes, I am holding down tune and know for sure the relays are being initiated. I just wish the tune indicator would stay lit after because then I'd feel comfortable that the radio is tuned and could put this to bed and start talking! |
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Posted: 6/4/2023 8:47:22 PM EDT
[#34]
What does the meter on the radio say after it clicks and clatters? The actual faceplate meter. Not the bar graph.
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Posted: 6/4/2023 8:54:24 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: When you check the SWR bargraph, you are setting the number of steps and the spread of the step AND you are pressing the PTT key on the side of the mike for EACH step correct? In other words if you selected 13 steps you must press the PTT 13 times . Yes, I am doing that. I have it set to 5 bars and am pressing the ptt button 5 times. I made a video that I hope will help. Ic 7300 tuner being used |
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Posted: 6/4/2023 9:39:21 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What does the meter on the radio say after it clicks and clatters? The actual faceplate meter. Not the bar graph. The swr meter doesn't show any swr reading, same as the bar graph. |
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Posted: 6/4/2023 9:41:16 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The swr meter doesn't show any swr reading, same as the bar graph. |
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Posted: 6/4/2023 9:42:15 PM EDT
[#38]
By the way, I have done a factory reset on the radio. Also the radio is running firmware version 1.41.
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Posted: 6/4/2023 9:58:48 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Probably matched and ok then. I'll try mine in about 20 mins when my son goes to sleep. I use resonant antennas for the most part but some of the traps on my Hustler need adjusting. I have some in the 1.7 range. Ill see how my internal tuner behaves with that. Thank you. I appreciate it! |
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Posted: 6/4/2023 10:26:16 PM EDT
[#40]
Ran my Hustler straight into my 7300. Unplugged by LDG also so it was sole the internal tuner.
On 30m, I went to a section where it was about 2.8:1 or so. Used the internal tuner. I got about 2-3 seconds of matching. Sent a tone and it was a no-show on the internal meter. On 15m, I cleaned up s 1.4:1 and it barely clicked and no show on the internal meter. On 80m, I am tuned to 3806. I went to 3825 where its about 3:1. Got very little clicking and then no show on the internal meter. I'm going to go with you're close enough that it's matching very fast as it needs very little of either capacitance or inductance. ETA: Just tried 12m. It was 3.2:1. Pushed tune and it clicked a second or so. Tried it again and no -show on the meter. |
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Posted: 6/5/2023 4:38:01 AM EDT
[#41]
The 7300 tuner is pretty fast, much faster than Yaesu. Since you're doing digital, try a transmit cycle at like 5 watts and see what the SWR meter on the 7300 says while transmit. I bet you're tuned.
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Posted: 6/5/2023 10:10:04 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The swr meter doesn't show any swr reading, same as the bar graph. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: What does the meter on the radio say after it clicks and clatters? The actual faceplate meter. Not the bar graph. The swr meter doesn't show any swr reading, same as the bar graph. If you transmit with a carrier or speech ( SSB ) and there is no SWR indication, it is because SWR is 1.0 from either the antenna without the tuner or with the tuner solution. Your SWR video requires a password. |
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Posted: 6/5/2023 1:23:51 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If you transmit with a carrier or speech ( SSB ) and there is no SWR indication, it is because SWR is 1.0 from either the antenna without the tuner or with the tuner solution. Your SWR video requires a password. Swr video I have updated permissions in the video. |
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Posted: 6/5/2023 1:26:37 PM EDT
[#44]
Thanks for all the help guys. I have updated the permissions on the video so it should play now.
Swr video |
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Posted: 6/5/2023 3:05:51 PM EDT
[#45]
I think it's doing it's job.
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Posted: 6/5/2023 3:13:49 PM EDT
[#46]
re: tune video... after it tries to tune, what happens if you short-press the tune button to turn the tuner on?
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Posted: 6/5/2023 3:45:57 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: re: tune video... after it tries to tune, what happens if you short-press the tune button to turn the tuner on? I can't say that I tried short pressing the tune button right after that video was done, although I can do it as a test. However, everytime I have short pressed the tune button, the tune indicator illuminates on the lcd screen. As far as I know, this just means that the tuner is on but doesn't mean that the frequency I'm on is "tuned". |
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Posted: 6/5/2023 6:01:46 PM EDT
[#48]
A short press will just turn the TUNE on or off.
If you hold the tune button long enough it will start the tune cycle and the TX will turn red and the TUNE will turn red. It appears that is happening in his video. It also looks like the SWR graph cycle is being done correctly. I watched the video several times and then tried it on my radio. It appears he is getting very low SWR on the graph but then the tuner is unable to tune the frequency OP, if you hold press the S/Po you can select S/SWR and then during the SWR graph, if you hold the mic button longer and read the SWR while the mic button is pressed for each press. Don't forget when setting the power level it is an approximate % and it is no where near accurate as watts. I don't know what you have it set to but for an accurate reading set about 10% when you do the graph, and look at the SWR read out on the bar after you select S/SWR, right now in the video it says S/Po so on receive the meter reads S meter and when you transmit is shows Power. Long press and change it to S/SWR so you can read the SWR when you transmit in the graph mode and in the Tune mode. Also use 10% and actually transmit and read the SWR. If you don't have one of the top buttons on the mic programmed to be a CW key, then use RTTY or FM or hook up a key or you can just use more power say 25% and talk into mic for SSB and look at the SWR meter. ETA: watching the video and you doing the SWR graph, it looks like your power is very low. The power meter is registering about 1%, that is not enough to get an accurate SWR reading. Select power around 10% or even 20% and try the graph again. |
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Posted: 6/5/2023 10:44:34 PM EDT
[#49]
I went back to the swr bar chart and changed it to rtty and 10% power (it was previously 5%). I'm happy to say that his time around it appears to be working. The swr looks reasonable. I am not quite sure what did it as I had tried 10%and rtty before but I have changed so many thing around, who knows. I am now confident that it is working. I linked to a picture of the swr bar chart below. I was able to send out heartbeat requests on JS8Call. I sent one to the arfcom group and got two replies. Thank you so much for everyone's help!!!
Swr bar chart |
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Posted: 6/6/2023 6:01:37 AM EDT
[#50]
If you are still worried you should pick up an external SWR meter so you can keep an eye on it while you use it.
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