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Posted: 5/2/2021 10:59:31 AM EDT
[#1]
Just so you know, the helium will not stay in the balloons. Diffusion is a thing. You would have to keep adding helium on a regular basis.
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Posted: 5/2/2021 11:08:32 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Just so you know, the helium will not stay in the balloons. Diffusion is a thing. You would have to keep adding helium on a regular basis. I knew it would be short lived with latex. Balloons did their job for about 6 hours. I was hoping for a lot more, but I would have needed to spend a lot more money, possibly money that would be nothing but a loss. |
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Posted: 5/2/2021 11:12:22 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I knew it would be short lived with latex. Balloons did their job for about 6 hours. I was hoping for a lot more, but I would have needed to spend a lot more money, possibly money that would be nothing but a loss. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Just so you know, the helium will not stay in the balloons. Diffusion is a thing. You would have to keep adding helium on a regular basis. I knew it would be short lived with latex. Balloons did their job for about 6 hours. I was hoping for a lot more, but I would have needed to spend a lot more money, possibly money that would be nothing but a loss. Wow, I would have thought they would last longer than that, at least. |
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Posted: 5/2/2021 11:14:48 AM EDT
[#4]
I was very successful using a sling shot to pay out line from a fishing reel. I got my dipole up 45 feet between two trees this way. It takes patience, but it's cheap and eventually you will succeed.
Basically used this method:  Best Slingshot Antenna Launcher for Ham Radio Eas |
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Posted: 5/2/2021 11:32:58 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Wow, I would have thought they would last longer than that, at least. In fairness the ballooons were only good enough to just barely get the antenna high enough. As soon as they lost a little lift, the antenna started to sink. I had hoped for 80ft of lift, I got 40 then climbed up on the roof to get another 20 because it was not good enough. The balloons were just barely floating. |
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Posted: 5/2/2021 11:38:31 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I was very successful using a sling shot to pay out line from a fishing reel. I got my dipole up 45 feet between two trees this way. It takes patience, but it's cheap and eventually you will succeed. Basically used this method:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6zc6Amc7vCYWhy not just use the fishing pole to sling a weight over the tree, then use the line to pull the wire up? |
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Posted: 5/2/2021 11:49:13 AM EDT
[#7]
IIRC, original (~) survival kits had a box kite for getting a long wire up in the air.
I've thought of doing it with a balloon, but just like a kite, that has a limited time value (a lighter than air gas vs lack of wind) generically speaking, other than getting a longer antenna for gain, there really isn't a huge payoff for HF, but getting a VHF+ antenna much higher, you stand to have greater coverage. |
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Posted: 5/2/2021 11:53:30 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Why not just use the fishing pole to sling a weight over the tree, then use the line to pull the wire up? You serious? I'm not a fly fisher, but I would be most impressed by someone who could cast up into a tree and hit a particular branch without hanging up in 10 other branches. With a sling shot I can get the line running EXACTLY over the branch I want. I do this with the hope it will last years, so I pick a big sturdy fork/branch such that the line and antenna will not be rubbing on any other branches once it's pulled up. With pulleys at each end and a counterweight it's possible to create a long-lived installation (and also to service it as needed). . |
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Posted: 5/2/2021 12:07:47 PM EDT
[#9]
What bands were you operating on?
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Posted: 5/2/2021 12:18:40 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What bands were you operating on? I was hitting the local ham repeaters, and also simplex, and also gmrs. The goal was to see how high I needed to get the antenna to get out. |
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Posted: 5/2/2021 1:15:32 PM EDT
[#11]
I've wondered a long time about using a tethered drone, no batteries, powered by the tether. If large enough, you can put the transmitter on the drone & save yourself the coax signal loss.
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Posted: 5/2/2021 2:40:30 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I've wondered a long time about using a tethered drone, no batteries, powered by the tether. If large enough, you can put the transmitter on the drone & save yourself the coax signal loss. That would be a pretty big drone |
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Posted: 5/2/2021 2:51:07 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I was hitting the local ham repeaters, and also simplex, and also gmrs. The goal was to see how high I needed to get the antenna to get out. I would be willing to bet that you would have done better with a Yagi type antenna on a 20 or 30 foot mast, rather than a small rubber duckie on a balloon, no matter how high it was. Less complex, no need to blow hundreds of dollars on Helium. You didn't say what kind of coax your were using. But I'm guessing it was RG-58 because anything heavier probably wouldn't work with the balloons. You've got over 3dB of loss there. You didn't say what kind of antenna you were using ("10ft plastic stick" is meaningless), but even the best verticals are only going to provide 4 or 5 dB of gain. A modest, six element Yagi will get you 11dB of gain. Feed the Yagi with say 40ft of RG8 for a loss of about 1dB and you're looking at 10dB of gain vs. maybe 2, and that's being generous depending on what the "plastic stick" was. I realize that line-of-sight might be an issue, but still bet the Yagi on a mast approach would perform much better. |
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Posted: 5/2/2021 2:53:45 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That would be a pretty big drone Might be smaller than OP's balloons. 
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Posted: 5/2/2021 4:18:39 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Why not just use the fishing pole to sling a weight over the tree, then use the line to pull the wire up? Just did this yesterday. Used a slingshot with a fishing reel and a 2 oz. lead weight. This thing never fails. I almost always get it where I want it on the first try. The tree was about 70 ft high. The weight flew right over it, right where I aimed it. The antenna was an "Ed Fong" 2m/440 version. It does ok at about 65 ft. but not nearly as good as my Comet GP9 at 30 feet. I didn't expect miracles as it is a crappy antenna to begin with. BTW, when I read the title, I was expecting to read about a very long vertical, suspended by balloons and tuned on 160 metes. 
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Posted: 5/2/2021 4:23:47 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: BTW, when I read the title, I was expecting to read about a very long vertical, suspended by balloons and tuned on 160 metes. This would seem to be the better option, as you don't have to lift the weight of the coax. |
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Posted: 5/2/2021 5:07:43 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Just did this yesterday. Used a slingshot with a fishing reel and a 2 oz. lead weight. This thing never fails. I almost always get it where I want it on the first try. The tree was about 70 ft high. The weight flew right over it, right where I aimed it. The antenna was an "Ed Fong" 2m/440 version. It does ok at about 65 ft. but not nearly as good as my Comet GP9 at 30 feet. I didn't expect miracles as it is a crappy antenna to begin with. BTW, when I read the title, I was expecting to read about a very long vertical, suspended by balloons and tuned on 160 metes. The one I have currently is a GP-6. I don't have trees closer than about 150 ft, then I would have to raise the antenna about 65 feet. What I have done instead is cut down one of the trees and dragged it over with the truck. Lifting it will be challenting, but I wll reduce my amount of coax and I will be able to lower the tree to work on antennas, depending on how long the tree will last. |
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Posted: 5/2/2021 5:13:37 PM EDT
[#18]
Does anyone make a WiFi controlled radio?
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Posted: 5/2/2021 5:38:50 PM EDT
[#19]
I paid a tree climber to put a pole with antena up in one of my tallest trees. There are motors that will turn it also.
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Posted: 5/2/2021 6:08:49 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The one I have currently is a GP-6. I don't have trees closer than about 150 ft, then I would have to raise the antenna about 65 feet. What I have done instead is cut down one of the trees and dragged it over with the truck. Lifting it will be challenting, but I wll reduce my amount of coax and I will be able to lower the tree to work on antennas, depending on how long the tree will last. You could run a 150-some feet of very low loss Heliax hardline to the tree and maybe a piece of LR-400 equivalent, up the tree. The money you spent on helium gas would pay for half the coax. Heliax can be buried. Just rent a "Ditch Witch" at a Home Depot for half the day and you are done. If you want to go real fancy and shoot even higher, buy an arborer's slingshot with a weight bag and their special rope. It's a slingshot on steroids. The special pull line will save you lots of time. This is what guys at the club have been using for hanging Field Day antennas. I've been very tempted to buy one for myself. Probably will get it soon. |
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Posted: 5/2/2021 6:17:40 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You could run a 150-some feet of very low loss Heliax hardline to the tree and maybe a piece of LR-400 equivalent, up the tree. The money you spent on helium gas would pay for half the coax. Heliax can be buried. Just rent a "Ditch Witch" at a Home Depot for half the day and you are done. If you want to go real fancy and shoot even higher, buy an arborer's slingshot with a weight bag and their special rope. It's a slingshot on steroids. The special pull line will save you lots of time. This is what guys at the club have been using for hanging Field Day antennas. I've been very tempted to buy one for myself. Probably will get it soon. One issue I am running into with running an antenna up a tree is that the trees near my house are like skinny telephone poles with sticks coming off like a porcupine, more or less. Anything I run up the tree will be dragged up agains the tree and through the sticks as it goes. Ground plane wires will be bent, broken, or get hung up. |
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Posted: 5/2/2021 6:49:30 PM EDT
[#22]
the antenna moving around in wind would cause issues the same way a bobbing dipole might act up?
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Posted: 5/2/2021 9:25:52 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That would be a pretty big drone I fly a pretty large drone at work and I've been curious how much extra weight it could lift. Maybe a simple roll-up J pole with coax attached. ETA: According to the manufacturer my drone has a max payload weight of about 6 pounds, so raising an antenna with it really isn't practical at all. |
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Posted: 5/2/2021 9:35:25 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: the antenna moving around in wind would cause issues the same way a bobbing dipole might act up? ...and because the balloons were just barely enough to lift the antenna and 40ft of cable(I had 80ft), it pretty much was equal to the weight of smoke. It moved around like smoke. |
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Posted: 5/2/2021 9:38:31 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I fly a pretty large drone at work and I've been curious how much extra weight it could lift. Maybe a simple roll-up J pole with coax attached. ETA: According to the manufacturer my drone has a max payload weight of about 6 pounds, so raising an antenna with it really isn't practical at all. How much does a handheld weigh? How much does 10m of copper wire weigh? |
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Posted: 5/2/2021 10:00:57 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Just so you know, the helium will not stay in the balloons. Diffusion is a thing. You would have to keep adding helium on a regular basis. Mylar balloons retain the helium a lot longer than latex or any other kind of rubber. |
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Posted: 5/2/2021 10:16:18 PM EDT
[#27]
I'm imagining a helium dirigible repeater...
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Posted: 5/2/2021 11:14:38 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm imagining a helium dirigible repeater... I watched a video the other day of a working class drone. It was big. If I understand it correctly it has a gasoline engine that powers a generator, that supplies power to the electric motors that keep it up. It had a run time of like 6 hours on a tank of gasoline. |
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Posted: 5/2/2021 11:31:23 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I watched a video the other day of a working class drone. It was big. If I understand it correctly it has a gasoline engine that powers a generator, that supplies power to the electric motors that keep it up. It had a run time of like 6 hours on a tank of gasoline. You can 3-D print anything you want these days, and if you're tethering it for your antenna cable, you may as run power for the motors up the same line. If power goes out, either have a UPS and land immediately or have an auto parachute release. |
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Posted: 5/4/2021 7:38:35 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I've wondered a long time about using a tethered drone, no batteries, powered by the tether. If large enough, you can put the transmitter on the drone & save yourself the coax signal loss. My guess is as soon as you transmit, that drone is coming down hard. The RF right at the drone will not work well |
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Posted: 5/4/2021 9:52:27 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My guess is as soon as you transmit, that drone is coming down hard. The RF right at the drone will not work well Wrap all the electronics in aluminum foil? Given that we're tethered, maybe you put all the electronics at the bottom of the tether, and just run power to the motors up the tether. Or just directly power the motors at full throttle through the tether. You won't get GPS station keeping in moderate wind, though. |
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Posted: 5/4/2021 11:20:21 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Wrap all the electronics in aluminum foil? Given that we're tethered, maybe you put all the electronics at the bottom of the tether, and just run power to the motors up the tether. Or just directly power the motors at full throttle through the tether. You won't get GPS station keeping in moderate wind, though. Very interesting. I believe I've heard rumors of some guys working on this to put up hasty coms. Truck rolls up, drone up, coms up. |
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Posted: 5/5/2021 9:06:09 AM EDT
[#33]
A friend of mine and I were batting around the idea of making a full sized 160 meter ground plane antenna with helium balloons.
Yeah, it was a pipe dream but we figured out how. |
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Posted: 5/5/2021 9:27:30 AM EDT
[#34]
I would think wind be a bad thing. Lightning even worse.
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Posted: 5/5/2021 11:28:31 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I would think wind be a bad thing. Lightning even worse. "Here, eracer, hold this line for a minute..." True. Mitigated by a large drone that is fully battery operated w/ transmitter & antenna on board, w/ WiFi control of drone & transmitter (repeater?), or a fiber optic non conducting tether. Or just don't fly in storms, as any US Navy dirigible pilot would tell you. |
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