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Posted: 1/2/2021 12:03:33 PM EDT
[#1]
Bicycle, a horse isn't practical where I am. If I lived out west or in a very rural area I'd prefer a horse.
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Posted: 1/2/2021 12:06:25 PM EDT
[#2]
I mean if you already have horses because it's your hobby, livelihood, or your married to a horse chick, then they're a great asset.
But if your not into it already; land, barn, horses, tac, feed, vet bills, skills, etc, just for the ability to have end of the world transport..... not worth it. |
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Posted: 1/2/2021 12:11:02 PM EDT
[#3]
I had horses as a kid. My choice is bicycle. Horses are mostly a rich person hobby.
Draft horses are a possibility for work but I would beg, borrow, steal diesel to farm with. We cannot feed our nation without diesel so if it’s so bad all farmers are back to horse power, we are fucked....IMO |
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Posted: 1/2/2021 1:19:07 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I had horses as a kid. My choice is bicycle. Horses are mostly a rich person hobby. Draft horses are a possibility for work but I would beg, borrow, steal diesel to farm with. We cannot feed our nation without diesel so if it’s so bad all farmers are back to horse power, we are fucked....IMO *Unfortunately that’s the scenario I’m suggesting. Grid down, no fuel production (or fuel is so expensive normal people can’t afford it $20.00 gallon?) gotta move from point a-b. *Not my usual optimistic self this morning. |
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Posted: 1/2/2021 1:33:23 PM EDT
[#5]
100% bicycle. Other than the ability to carry more weight, horses seem to offer no real advantage over their drawbacks. (Thats not to say horses don't have some advantages, rather they are outweighed by disadvantages.)
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Posted: 1/2/2021 2:05:51 PM EDT
[#6]
Advantages of horses that I see are ability to traverse cross country, they are all weather, act as an early warning, and do more work than a single man can do. Additionally, riding a horse requires (relatively) few calories for you for the distance you are covering.
Drawbacks are all the above listed but in a true SHTF scenario you’re not vetting or using your horse as a pet so all it really has to do is eat, poop, and have it’s feet taken care of and would mostly be barefoot anyways. More downsides: There are no where near enough horses anymore to actually be a viable transportation option. Horses can and will hurt you. That makes them a liability in SHTF. Bicycles and pieces parts almost exclusively come from China now. 40 years ago almost everything was interchangeable. Now they are stupid specialized and yet still mostly limited to trails and roads. I’ve done it but riding through a foot of snow isn’t all that fun and burns a TON of calories. A hundred miles a day on a bike is easily done. Not so much with a horse. |
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Posted: 1/2/2021 3:13:50 PM EDT
[#7]
How many poor people do you know that own horses? How many own bicycles? Why?
Horses are very expensive and kinda fragile. |
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Posted: 1/2/2021 3:40:51 PM EDT
[#8]
Both a bicycle and a mule would be my modes of work and transportation. Mules are much less likely to eat something that they shouldn't.
Oh, there would also be a small diesel vehicle running on biodiesel that I'd make when faster travel would be required. |
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Posted: 1/2/2021 5:30:28 PM EDT
[#9]
Any journey longer than three days can be completed faster on foot than on horseback (or some such, no source but it is in some old army literature)
You don't have to feed a bike, a lifetime of spare parts take up less space than a week of horse food. |
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Posted: 1/2/2021 9:56:01 PM EDT
[#10]
Horses can graze in a field all day and get the calories they need and not need supplemental grain...if the grass is at least fair. Put them to work and they need grain for calorie dense food.
If you are traveling on horses, you can’t carry enough stuff on the horse you are riding for to care for yourself and the horse so you need another pack animal (mule or horse) to carry supplies. You need at least one pack animal per two riders and one pack animal per rider is even better. You would need even more pack animals the farther you are traveling without resupply. There’s a reason why buggies and wagons are more efficient for moving supplies and people than riding a horse. The Amish can move a whole family (depending on the size of the family) with one horse and a buggy. |
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Posted: 1/3/2021 10:10:40 AM EDT
[#11]
Horses if you already have them, but a bike or ebike would be useful also.
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Posted: 1/3/2021 10:50:59 AM EDT
[#12]
This is not a comparison, the two choices are so different. You will never get the work done with a bike you will with a horse.
If it's really the end of the world you're bike can't plow your garden, pull a meaningful amount of supplies, transport your whole family etc. How many people have the knowledge/experience to do the above with a horse? Maybe one in 100,000? How many have the knowledge/experience and equipment to all of the above? Maybe on in 4-500,000? I don't know the last time I saw someone with a horse drawn wagon and horse drawn plow. Beyond that how many horses are work horses not trail horses? I couldn't even guess. A better comparison would be mule or horse, mules will likely get a lot more done with a lot lower quality forage. FWIW I grew up on a horse "ranch" and in my opinion there are a few types of horse owners with about 90% of them being wealthy overweight females who struggle to get on their own horse, 5% are not overweight, about 2.5% are horses "ranchers" who manage horses (likely slightly crazy overweight females), ~1.5% are show and race folks, and probably less than 1% are actual cowboys/guides who have horses that actually earn a living with them. |
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Posted: 1/3/2021 11:23:03 AM EDT
[#13]
The Amish angle is interesting. The Amish don’t ride bicycles though-is that part of their religion?
Using Bicycles is also a “calorie dense” endeavor. 4-5k a day if you’re riding hard and long. And going cross country is even harder. Like ColtRifle said-or alluded to nobody has just one horse. You need horses in pairs, or pairs of pairs, or even as many as 4 per rider. I believe the US Calvary required 4-5 horses per trooper. My experience is that of the 4-5 horses at least one would be gtg. Horses are always getting hurt and doing stupid stuff. So two people at a minimum equals 4 horses. Then there is training horses-that takes time. They don’t just “get along” or tolerate loads and or terrain features. The horses you see in movies are really well trained. In real life some horses are afraid of water, logs that look out of place, wind....the list is endless. Feral hogs scared my horses the worst but I’ve been on horses that spooked at cottontails. Thanks for helping me think through this. 
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Posted: 1/3/2021 11:27:01 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How many poor people do you know that own horses? How many own bicycles? Why? Horses are very expensive and kinda fragile. You’re exactly right. |
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Posted: 1/3/2021 4:14:56 PM EDT
[#15]
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Posted: 1/3/2021 4:55:37 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: @ROCK6 Thanks for the hit. Tough question, but it really depends if one already has access and the support, tack, accessories, etc. required for horses. We know a few people with horses, and as mentioned, they're not for poor people. A flat tire or broken chain is much easier to repair than a hobbled horse and unless you already have a lot of experience, it's hard to diagnose issues. Bikes are low maintenance; horses are higher maintenance. Horses have a lot of versatility, but it comes at a higher cost. Personally, I have more invested in bikes, tools, parts, trailer, etc., so bikes for me. With a road system, bikes can make significant differences in travel speed and you get to keep in shape  ROCK6 |
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Posted: 1/3/2021 6:15:13 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The Amish angle is interesting. The Amish don’t ride bicycles though-is that part of their religion? Using Bicycles is also a “calorie dense” endeavor. 4-5k a day if you’re riding hard and long. And going cross country is even harder. Like ColtRifle said-or alluded to nobody has just one horse. You need horses in pairs, or pairs of pairs, or even as many as 4 per rider. I believe the US Calvary required 4-5 horses per trooper. My experience is that of the 4-5 horses at least one would be gtg. Horses are always getting hurt and doing stupid stuff. So two people at a minimum equals 4 horses. Then there is training horses-that takes time. They don’t just “get along” or tolerate loads and or terrain features. The horses you see in movies are really well trained. In real life some horses are afraid of water, logs that look out of place, wind....the list is endless. Feral hogs scared my horses the worst but I’ve been on horses that spooked at cottontails. Thanks for helping me think through this. I have Amish and menonites all around me. E-bikes and horse and buggy are as prevolent as cars. Horses are not for the rich if you treat them like the Amish do, like a piece of equipment, not a pet. |
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Posted: 1/3/2021 7:59:58 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Horses are not for the rich if you treat them like the Amish do, like a piece of equipment, not a pet. And when they get too old or lame they go to auction for meat. IMO for basic local transportation an eBike set up with a solar trickle charger would be the way to go. |
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Posted: 1/3/2021 8:25:59 PM EDT
[#19]
I'm living on the north side of the Adirondack park. And at one time, this county's number one agricultural crop was oats. why? it was needed to feed the horses used to work in the lumber camps. To this day there are significant numbers of Amish in this area. Their number one crop?: Oats.
I know very little about horses. But I do know that these are not biological tractors, you just turn loose and graze, and miraculously get tons of work out of them. They require inputs, massive inputs, mostly in the form of fodder, but don't forget, tack, shoeing, and all the rest. |
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Posted: 1/3/2021 8:28:56 PM EDT
[#20]
You don't have to feed bicycles, even when you're working them. They won't break fences and run away. They won't kick you. You don't have to nail steel shoes to their feet.
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Posted: 1/3/2021 10:16:25 PM EDT
[#21]
Bicycle. My ex wife is a horse chick. Horses require a lot of maintenance and are expensive to keep, even more expensive if you don’t have land and have to board it. I told her once we should get rid of the horse and buy a new truck because that would have been cheaper than keeping the horse.
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Posted: 1/4/2021 12:19:11 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You don't have to feed bicycles, even when you're working them. They won't break fences and run away. They won't kick you. You don't have to nail steel shoes to their feet. Did you know that horses bite? They do and it hurts! There are about a million ways horses can hurt you. As a cyclist everyone hates you and many are actually openly trying to kill you!
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Posted: 1/4/2021 5:57:07 AM EDT
[#23]
Man I love horses. I grew up around them. Man are they high maintenance. Its why even retired now, I don't own any. Love em but didn't want to live my life around them/tired down to them.
Nuff said on that. Tj |
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Posted: 1/4/2021 8:09:14 AM EDT
[#24]
The VC made great use of the bicycle to haul tons of supplies along Highway 1.
I've had horses. I would choose the bicycle. |
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Posted: 1/4/2021 10:35:16 AM EDT
[#25]
I choose dirt bike. Little to no expanded energy and much less work than a horse. Even if gas is $20 a gallon like you're saying, that's not a huge expense to get 100+ miles of travel. You could go on road or off, you could carry some shit with you more than a bike. You could tow a small something if you needed to. Can sit a while without any work or input from you. Also faster than either option listed, so another win there.
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Posted: 1/4/2021 12:40:07 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I choose dirt bike..... Even if gas is $20 a gallon According to the parameters of the original post for this thread, there is "no gas" in the situation proposed. |
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Posted: 1/4/2021 12:43:55 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The VC made great use of the bicycle to haul tons of supplies along Highway 1. I've had horses. I would choose the bicycle. Good points. |
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Posted: 1/4/2021 1:54:23 PM EDT
[#28]
What infrastructure is necessary to support a horse long term?
What infrastructure is necessary to support a bicycle long term? |
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Posted: 1/4/2021 2:39:00 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What infrastructure is necessary to support a horse long term? What infrastructure is necessary to support a bicycle long term? Define long term and “necessary” support I could tie a horse to a tree with braided roots as a halter and lead line if the horse can survive on the forage available. Try as I might I can’t get infrastructure to make a bike tire and I don’t know how to weld aluminum yet. |
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Posted: 1/4/2021 4:12:45 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Define long term and “necessary” support I could tie a horse to a tree with braided roots as a halter and lead line if the horse can survive on the forage available. Try as I might I can’t get infrastructure to make a bike tire and I don’t know how to weld aluminum yet. Back in the day bike frames were made of manly steel. I still have several hand brazed lugged frames and bikes around but you’re right...making rubber is way beyond my skill level. |
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Posted: 1/4/2021 4:19:07 PM EDT
[#31]
Pasture land is typically the worst land available that will grow hay. Hay is at the bottom of the food value list and our pastures were places nothing else would grow.
Where I live now horses are on supplemental hay 6-7 MONTHS of the year here in the far northern mountains of Idaho. Getting that supplemental hay to your animals is easy enough when things are “normal” but delivering hay via horse drawn wagon would be a challenge. |
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Posted: 1/4/2021 5:41:54 PM EDT
[#32]
LOL, work on horses for a living.
For the price of a horse and a years expenses, you can buy the biggest, baddest E'bike and a "solar charger" to go with it. Love horses, but don't own any. I'll take a little Kubota tractor on the side to do any garden work I want. Doc |
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Posted: 1/4/2021 9:23:21 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: As a cyclist everyone hates you and many are actually openly trying to kill you! Which is more likely under a Biden presidency: fuel prices at $4-5 per gallon, or a SHTF event where you'd need a horse to pull a plow? With high fuel prices 1) a lot more of us will be riding on two wheels than four, and 2) the cost of keeping a horse will skyrocket. |
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Posted: 1/5/2021 12:36:12 AM EDT
[#34]
Bike all the way.
The VC used them to great effect. And you don't have to feed it. And it can be quieter and stealthier, and doesn't leave....you know....traces of it's presence. |
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