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Posted: 11/25/2023 3:40:24 PM EDT
[Last Edit: raf]
Looking into this concerning some knives, specifically Mora Garberg carbon steel knife.
Involves heating vinegar and dipping knife blade into heated solution. Apparently will not damage most plastic handles. Have watched many YouTube vids. ETA: have seen many different types of substances used to treat the blade; Hot vinegar seems to be the most controllable as far as final finish goes. ETA2: Joke's on me. I had forgotten that I ordered the Mora Garburg with a black blade finish in the first place. Downside: Using up vinegar, which is cheap. Some respected knife-fighting experts have said that an opponent with a "bright" blade is more psychologically intimidating than same with a "darkened" blade. Room for discussion here, I reckon. Upside: "Pre-rusting" blade so that it is less likely to rust/discolor in the future. Basically, the heated vinegar reacts with the metal and creates a semi-protective, darkened coating on the blade, (going to black, given enough exposure) which requires less future maintenance than an untreated blade. We'll see....... |
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Posted: 11/25/2023 3:47:26 PM EDT
[#1]
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KY, USA
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Posted: 11/25/2023 4:18:48 PM EDT
[#2]
Sort of a poor man's rust blue. Semi-protective is a good description. Probably works since it roughens the finish, allowing oil to cover it better. Much like camo clothing doesn't look as bad with a couple of food stains as a solid color garment.
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Posted: 11/25/2023 4:37:57 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Piledriver2235]
[#3]
Yellow mustard stains them nicely.
 Attached FileI tried stripes, but personally like the mottled look |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 11/25/2023 5:48:13 PM EDT
[#4]
Stick it in a whole potato and leave. Take out when your required amount of patina is reached.
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IN, USA
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Posted: 11/25/2023 9:47:22 PM EDT
[#5]
Just some regular ol French's Yellow Mustard on a paper towel to blot on your blade will work wonders.
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Posted: 11/25/2023 9:57:01 PM EDT
[#6]
Another vote for mustard. Ferric chloride is relatively inexpensive and commonly used to etch blades
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NC, USA
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Posted: 11/25/2023 10:04:40 PM EDT
[#7]
Or you could get patina by actually using it. This thread is the knife equivalent of throwing a gun down the driveway
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Posted: 11/26/2023 9:06:56 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JustDaniel: Or you could get patina by actually using it. This thread is the knife equivalent of throwing a gun down the driveway https://i.vgy.me/aQR96J.jpg |
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NJ, USA
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Posted: 11/26/2023 10:22:53 AM EDT
[#9]
 You don’t need heat. Mustard used on this one. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 11/26/2023 1:29:20 PM EDT
[#10]
I use this on my my carbon steel knife blades, axes, and some yard tools. Gives it a nice semi protective finish while it’s earning it naturally acquired patina.https://a.co/d/42zDzy7I
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Posted: 11/27/2023 9:48:59 AM EDT
[Last Edit: raf]
[#11]
See ETA2 in OP. I'll look around to see if there's any carbon steel blades to treat. Sorry to waste everyone's time.
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Posted: 11/27/2023 3:30:11 PM EDT
[Last Edit: sandboxmedic]
[#12]
I've done the heated vinegar thing on a carbon steel Mora and another knife. It wasn't like a rust finish, it just darkened the metal, like rubbing it with cold blueing. I put white vinegar in a Pyrex measuring cup, heated it on the stove and immersed the blade it it until it seemed to be as dark as it was going to get then rinsed. It wasn't an even patina either. I'm not sure where the Mora is at the moment or I'd post a picture; the other knife I'm pretty sure I gave away.
Now I'm curious, I've got two Moras in the truck (one for the front and one for the back), maybe it's one of those- gotta go look. ETA- Well the two in the truck are both stainless, the carbon one I found hasn't been messed with; I found a Gerber Freeman Guide and SOG that I vaguely remember picking up during the Brickseek heydays (would not recommend either), found my Cold Steel Spike in a pocket of my small Camelbak..... but no patina Mora. Might be in the toolbox? No idea at the moment- I might have a knife problem. 
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Posted: 11/27/2023 3:44:43 PM EDT
[Last Edit: raf]
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By sandboxmedic: I've done the heated vinegar thing on a carbon steel Mora and another knife. It wasn't like a rust finish, it just darkened the metal, like rubbing it with cold blueing. I put white vinegar in a Pyrex measuring cup, heated it on the stove and immersed the blade it it until it seemed to be as dark as it was going to get then rinsed. I'm not sure where the Mora is at the moment or I'd post a picture; the other knife I'm pretty sure I gave away. Now I'm curious, I've got two Moras in the truck (one for the front and one for the back), maybe it's one of those- gotta go look. "Black" finish takes many immersions with heated vinegar but seems to deliver a uniform color. Some folks prefer other methods, which by their nature, provide "mottled" finishes. All to User's taste. I've used common "blueing" compounds on some carbon steel blades. It worked, although the "blueing" solution, as well as the blade itself works best with some careful pre-heating of both items. The temp required for the blade, and the bluing solution, comes nowhere close to affecting blade steel temper. We're talking about no more than 250 deg F here. Some folks, such as myself, glass-bead-blast some blades to reduce initial "shine" of highly polished blades. Very careful glass-beading of blades serves to reduce surface glare and also to "surface-harden" the surface of the item blasted. This glass-beading and surface hardening does nothing to reduce rust but may be beneficial in the long run. I pay my Gunsmith to use his glass-beading booth $20 per hour. I do the work. We talk for hours after that. We "get along". |
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Posted: 11/27/2023 3:52:42 PM EDT
[Last Edit: sandboxmedic]
[#14]
I just went out to the truck and looked so I updated my post. I don't recall reading about having to change the vinegar- makes sense though and I would have preferred a darker finish. If I can find it I may try dipping it again to darken it. I went with the vinegar to try it and because my truck knives get used for everything from skinning to food prep so I figured I'd try something simple and non-toxic. This place cost me money as I'm pretty sure I must have half a dozen Moras; someone will post that they're on sale and I buy another. I know I've given away quite a few over the years, those and Opinels.
Both are inexpensive knives but they're light and I pretty much quit carrying heavier, more expensive knives years ago. I've got an Izula and a DH Russell Canadian Belt knife that I like; if I'm not carrying one of those two it's usually a Mora and I think there's a Mora in most of my bags. I can't recall having broken a Mora, but I don't baton with my knives either; just not something I've ever needed to do. |
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Posted: 11/27/2023 5:12:38 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By sandboxmedic: I just went out to the truck and looked so I updated my post. I don't recall reading about having to change the vinegar- makes sense though and I would have preferred a darker finish. If I can find it I may try dipping it again to darken it. I went with the vinegar to try it and because my truck knives get used for everything from skinning to food prep so I figured I'd try something simple and non-toxic. This place cost me money as I'm pretty sure I must have half a dozen Moras; someone will post that they're on sale and I buy another. I know I've given away quite a few over the years, those and Opinels. Both are inexpensive knives but they're light and I pretty much quit carrying heavier, more expensive knives years ago. I've got an Izula and a DH Russell Canadian Belt knife that I like; if I'm not carrying one of those two it's usually a Mora and I think there's a Mora in most of my bags. I can't recall having broken a Mora, but I don't baton with my knives either; just not something I've ever needed to do. |
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Posted: 11/27/2023 5:49:02 PM EDT
[#16]
Yellow mustard, French's to be exact, is what I used for mine. Gave me a mottled appearance that I like.
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Posted: 11/28/2023 8:53:52 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By raf: I've used common "blueing" compounds on some carbon steel blades. It worked, although the "blueing" solution, as well as the blade itself works best with some careful pre-heating of both items. The temp required for the blade, and the bluing solution, comes nowhere close to affecting blade steel temper. We're talking about 300 deg F here\ The only concerns I've heard is that bluing on blades isn't good for blades used on food. Just a consideration. I've done but mustard and vinegar. I like the look of mustard, but vinegar (after a couple dunks) seems to be more even. If you use your blade enough, especially with acidic foods, it will naturally patina over time. ROCK6 |
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SD, USA
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Posted: 11/28/2023 9:00:31 AM EDT
[#18]
I've done quite a few carbon steel blades using yellow mustard as others have said. Here's an example.
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Posted: 11/28/2023 9:45:19 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By mojo7: I've done quite a few carbon steel blades using yellow mustard as others have said. Here's an example. https://i.ibb.co/SnS127n/3-AD2542-C-2-E17-485-C-8-ACD-2-D61-A0452247.png Did you remove the scales to treat the entire knife? Obviously not possible on some knives. |
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Posted: 11/30/2023 10:13:08 AM EDT
[Last Edit: raf]
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ROCK6: The only concerns I've heard is that bluing on blades isn't good for blades used on food. Just a consideration. I've done but mustard and vinegar. I like the look of mustard, but vinegar (after a couple dunks) seems to be more even. If you use your blade enough, especially with acidic foods, it will naturally patina over time. ROCK6 Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ROCK6: Originally Posted By raf: I've used common "blueing" compounds on some carbon steel blades. It worked, although the "blueing" solution, as well as the blade itself works best with some careful pre-heating of both items. The temp required for the blade, and the bluing solution, comes nowhere close to affecting blade steel temper. We're talking about 300 deg F here\ The only concerns I've heard is that bluing on blades isn't good for blades used on food. Just a consideration. I've done but mustard and vinegar. I like the look of mustard, but vinegar (after a couple dunks) seems to be more even. If you use your blade enough, especially with acidic foods, it will naturally patina over time. ROCK6 BladeForum discussion HERE Thank you for bringing it up! However, it turns out that --Yep, you guessed it-- hot vinegar can be used to remove bluing. See HERE |
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Posted: 11/30/2023 11:50:55 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By raf: I was unaware of this issue, and it is true that bluing mfrs specifically state to NOT use bluing compounds on items which will come in contact with food--even game processing. Presumably this also applies to other compounds like "Brass Black" and "Aluminum Black". BladeForum discussion HERE Thank you for bringing it up! However, it turns out that --Yep, you guessed it-- hot vinegar can be used to remove bluing. See HERE Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By raf: Originally Posted By ROCK6: Originally Posted By raf: I've used common "blueing" compounds on some carbon steel blades. It worked, although the "blueing" solution, as well as the blade itself works best with some careful pre-heating of both items. The temp required for the blade, and the bluing solution, comes nowhere close to affecting blade steel temper. We're talking about 300 deg F here\ The only concerns I've heard is that bluing on blades isn't good for blades used on food. Just a consideration. I've done but mustard and vinegar. I like the look of mustard, but vinegar (after a couple dunks) seems to be more even. If you use your blade enough, especially with acidic foods, it will naturally patina over time. ROCK6 BladeForum discussion HERE Thank you for bringing it up! However, it turns out that --Yep, you guessed it-- hot vinegar can be used to remove bluing. See HERE Interesting. Never knew that and have a Mora 511 I wiped some bluing on years ago and have used it for everything while camping frequently. Oh well... |
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ID, USA
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Posted: 11/30/2023 1:02:35 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By mojo7: I've done quite a few carbon steel blades using yellow mustard as others have said. Here's an example. https://i.ibb.co/SnS127n/3-AD2542-C-2-E17-485-C-8-ACD-2-D61-A0452247.png Wow, that turned out super nice, great blades those Beckers too! |
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Posted: 11/30/2023 2:41:51 PM EDT
[#23]
I forgot about this Trail Hawk I slightly modded (first effort with one, cut me some slack
 ). Not sure why the edge looks so funky with the flash, it doesn't look that bad in real life and it'll cut your finger when you're dumb enough to slide it over it wondering if it's actually getting sharp. It was put in vinegar heated to just below boiling for a while; you can see where the factory temper line is on it. Attached File |
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Posted: 12/1/2023 8:39:07 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By thederrick106: Interesting. Never knew that and have a Mora 511 I wiped some bluing on years ago and have used it for everything while camping frequently. Oh well... Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By thederrick106: Originally Posted By raf: Originally Posted By ROCK6: Originally Posted By raf: I've used common "blueing" compounds on some carbon steel blades. It worked, although the "blueing" solution, as well as the blade itself works best with some careful pre-heating of both items. The temp required for the blade, and the bluing solution, comes nowhere close to affecting blade steel temper. We're talking about 300 deg F here\ The only concerns I've heard is that bluing on blades isn't good for blades used on food. Just a consideration. I've done but mustard and vinegar. I like the look of mustard, but vinegar (after a couple dunks) seems to be more even. If you use your blade enough, especially with acidic foods, it will naturally patina over time. ROCK6 BladeForum discussion HERE Thank you for bringing it up! However, it turns out that --Yep, you guessed it-- hot vinegar can be used to remove bluing. See HERE Interesting. Never knew that and have a Mora 511 I wiped some bluing on years ago and have used it for everything while camping frequently. Oh well... |
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ITA
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Posted: 12/1/2023 9:21:35 AM EDT
[#25]
i did it with hot coca cola to the carbon steel opinel i have always in the pocket.
That is because opinels rust very easily and get stuck into the handle (i had to cut a notch on the handle for easy opening in winter with cold hands too, don't want to break a fingernail in the field). They will rust just for carrying in the pocket or if you cut a fresh piece of wood or a wet rope...everything. these are the kind of work i use it for daily, nothing extreme but it get used a lot. I bought the largest one (12) at the hardware store, opened it once then put it into a drawer, several months later i went to open and there were my fingerprints rusted on the blade, go figure. I did it to mine because i sometime cut food with it and somehow a patina seems like cleaner than rust to me. i wouldn't do it to a D2 steel blade, i have a wharncliffe one that i like that in summer get rusty after a day in the trousers pocket but get easily clean with something like 409. It is the right one, at that time it had just a few months of carry. A year later is in far worse condition and i had to refresh the patina once after it was worn away in some spots with use and resharpening.  i think that patina will also protect from the rust going thru the metal and weakening the knife where it's pinned to the handle, that is a place that gets wet and is difficult to clean, not that an agricultural knife like that get usually cleaned more than drying the blade by rubbing it to the sleeve or the trousers. |
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Posted: 12/1/2023 11:19:55 AM EDT
[#26]
My last couple of Opinels all seem to have acquired a natural patina from from cutting limes, lemons and calamansis.
 Being inexpensive I used to toss a couple in my traveling bags and give them away; I know I've still got a number 8 in a drawer (my favorite size). 
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Posted: 12/1/2023 11:33:48 AM EDT
[Last Edit: raf]
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By joeviterbo: i did it with hot coca cola to the carbon steel opinel i have always in the pocket. That is because opinels rust very easily and get stuck into the handle (i had to cut a notch on the handle for easy opening in winter with cold hands too, don't want to break a fingernail in the field). They will rust just for carrying in the pocket or if you cut a fresh piece of wood or a wet rope...everything. these are the kind of work i use it for daily, nothing extreme but it get used a lot. I bought the largest one (12) at the hardware store, opened it once then put it into a drawer, several months later i went to open and there were my fingerprints rusted on the blade, go figure. I did it to mine because i sometime cut food with it and somehow a patina seems like cleaner than rust to me. i wouldn't do it to a D2 steel blade, i have a wharncliffe one that i like that in summer get rusty after a day in the trousers pocket but get easily clean with something like 409. It is the right one, at that time it had just a few months of carry. A year later is in far worse condition and i had to refresh the patina once after it was worn away in some spots with use and resharpening. https://scontent.fpeg1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/310421907_5696078503812759_654870523295193958_n.jpg?_nc_cat=101&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=c42490&_nc_ohc=Q6VoA5Rp0kEAX-nfJgK&_nc_ht=scontent.fpeg1-2.fna&oh=00_AfDXnuJLbB9d8Pj3g-nvTa0ChiTSfrpDDBNeekNdKrT-AQ&oe=656E1ADD i think that patina will also protect from the rust going thru the metal and weakening the knife where it's pinned to the handle, that is a place that gets wet and is difficult to clean, not that an agricultural knife like that get usually cleaned more than drying the blade by rubbing it to the sleeve or the trousers. Whether all this is worth the time and expense is up to you. |
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Posted: 12/1/2023 12:06:24 PM EDT
[#28]
I have only used cold blue. Interested to see alternatives.
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Posted: 12/1/2023 2:12:00 PM EDT
[Last Edit: raf]
[#29]
Getting back to "Forced Patina" topic, I'm currently treating a carbon steel "Puma White Hunter" knife blade with hot vinegar. It's fairly certain that the shiny blue finish applied to the blade (before I knew better) is being replaced with a "vinegar patina". I carefully de-oiled the blade first, by wiping and with alcohol.
The "hot" vinegar reacts a lot more vigorously with the steel than does same vinegar after it has cooled down, thus speeding-up the process. I have been periodically "wiping" the entire blade with a common kitchen "Scotch-Brite" scouring pad every so often, in order to help the vinegar "Darken" the steel fully and uniformly. Occasionally some "bright" spots seen on the blade, but such seem to be decreasing after a little abrasive rubbing, the "bright" spots seem to "take" the vinegar properly. No apparent damage done to the edge, but I'm fairly certain the edge of the blade will benefit from a good stropping after all is done. It would seem that one of the "tricks" to this vinegar process is to have a suitable GLASS vessel into which the entire surface to be treated can be "dunked" all at once. Glass being non-reactive, and not creating any "contamination" problems as might stainless steel or other reactive metals. Porcelain coated vessels might be OK. All a learning process. ETA1: After about 3 hours of formerly "blued" blade being exposed to same solution of (re-heated) clear vinegar, blade is dead black, as desired. Not at all shiny "blue" as before. I'm "assuming" that vinegar treatment removed initial bluing, which was the goal. Calling this a "Win". |
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Posted: 12/17/2023 4:07:44 AM EDT
[#30]
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 12/17/2023 6:15:15 PM EDT
[#31]
Exposing high-strength steels to acids can cause something called hydrogen embrittlement. I'm not sure if vinegar (a weak acetic acid solution) is a danger. Hydrochloric acid definitely is. It results in a very fragile item that fails that snaps in half easily.
If the knife rusts, you can dip it in boiling water to form magnetite (rust-bluing). |
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IN, USA
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Posted: 12/21/2023 7:58:40 PM EDT
[#32]
I cut and soaked a laundry bag in white vinegar then laid it flat on the blade once and it gave a pretty decent look.
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Posted: 12/22/2023 9:39:47 AM EDT
[Last Edit: raf]
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By brownbomber: Exposing high-strength steels to acids can cause something called hydrogen embrittlement. I'm not sure if vinegar (a weak acetic acid solution) is a danger. Hydrochloric acid definitely is. It results in a very fragile item that fails that snaps in half easily. If the knife rusts, you can dip it in boiling water to form magnetite (rust-bluing). However, I did find that a 1-hour heat soak at 300 Deg F will usually "fix" hydrogen embrittlement. Since most knives are tempered at about 400 Deg, F, the lower heat soak should not cause any issues. LMK if you come across more info, please. |
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Posted: 12/22/2023 11:01:17 AM EDT
[Last Edit: wildearp]
[#34]
Brownells Oxpho-blue works very nicely on a carbon Mora. Don't overthink it.
Mine got stolen before I was able to get stabby on any wild game, so at least I am still alive. In the knife world blueing is a 9mm vs .45 discussion. 
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Posted: 12/22/2023 12:02:48 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By wildearp: Brownells Oxpho-blue works very nicely on a carbon Mora. Don't overthink it. Mine got stolen before I was able to get stabby on any wild game, so at least I am still alive. In the knife world blueing is a 9mm vs .45 discussion. |
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Posted: 12/22/2023 12:30:46 PM EDT
[#36]
Now I’m reconsidering eating mustard.
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Posted: 12/24/2023 12:48:04 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Steamedliver: Now I’m reconsidering eating mustard. You think mustard is potent, you'll never drink Coke or eat pineapple again. |
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IN, USA
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Posted: 4/16/2024 10:13:21 PM EDT
[Last Edit: sixnine]
[#38]
I also dipped toothpicks in mustard and laid them on a blade briefly to make thin lines.
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Posted: 4/17/2024 5:27:04 PM EDT
[#39]
Much to consider since I made OP. Since then I bought a pretty decent Paki clone of legendary "Hell's Belle" knife, and afterwards was lucky enough to find an "affordable" licensed OKC Hell's Belle knife. "Affordable" was a relatively cheap NIB $400 item, and pounced on it as other examples from OKC were far more expensive. I was lucky at $400.
I'll play with slightly modifying the much too heavy guard of the Paki knife to trim it down and reduce overall mass of Paki knife. Might be "quite" useful after that. OKC Hell's Bowie will be left intact, as it's almost perfect as a fighting knife. |
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