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Posted: 3/19/2019 8:01:12 PM EDT
[#1]
Lock em in at night
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Posted: 3/19/2019 8:05:37 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Lock em in at night  Definitely have predators around.
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Posted: 3/19/2019 8:09:17 PM EDT
[#3]
Congrats on the new chickens.
There’s lots to learn about chickens.....but you don’t need to learn it all at once. 
Feed them, water them....see how it goes. Free range vs. penned is the first choice. We free range ours but we have a stable flock and very low predator pressure. Starting out, you might be happier with some sort of pen. Get some golf balls and use them as “dummy eggs” to give the birds an idea where you want them to lay. Good luck! |
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Posted: 3/19/2019 8:29:25 PM EDT
[#4]
Stock up on ammo for the 12 gauge. I loved having chickens, they are quite entertaining and fresh, free range eggs are fantastic.
But eventually the foxes found out where we lived. After that, it was a constant battle. I shot many of them (6-7, maybe more), but we kept losing chickens. It seemed that as soon as replacements would start laying, they would get killed. The only way we could keep them reasonably safe was to keep them penned up 24/7. But then the eggs were not much better than ones we could buy in the store. Reluctantly, we didn't replace the last few that were killed. |
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Posted: 3/19/2019 8:38:54 PM EDT
[#5]
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Posted: 3/19/2019 8:50:38 PM EDT
[#6]
Wife and I got 2 chickens, Barred Rocks, last year. They started laying July or August. We keep them in a 2-chicken coop, and keep that inside a dog run like this:
We've screened over the top with shade cloth. We've been lucky, no predators other than doggies have tried to get in and they were unsuccessful. SIX chickens will net you 5-6 eggs per day! They say that home-raised chicken eggs produce less bad cholesterol, and more good cholesterol, than store-bought. But that's still a LOT of eggs! 2 a day is more than we like to eat (my son doesn't like eggs except to cook with). One thing we learned is that chickens will peck at anything that is red (i.e. blood). This will keep an injured chicken from healing, so you'll have to remove her from the flock. There's a product called Peck No More that we used. Also there's a special chicken antibiotic, and a spray ointment to help them heal; these are useful. Look at the chicken thread, this is all covered there! |
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Posted: 3/19/2019 9:20:31 PM EDT
[#7]
BYC is one of the best information sites on chickens, any question you can think of, the answer is probably there.
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Posted: 3/20/2019 6:34:07 AM EDT
[#8]
Look into Chicken Tractors (images link)
These provide an easy way to protect the birds and move them around outside. They can be as simple or as elaborate as you want. |
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Posted: 3/20/2019 10:31:08 AM EDT
[#9]
Thanks for the help guys. Sounds like this should be an interesting venture. It will be nice to not have to worry about getting eggs from the store and sounds like the chickens are realitvely low maintenance.
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Posted: 3/20/2019 10:32:26 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Look into Chicken Tractors (images link) These provide an easy way to protect the birds and move them around outside. They can be as simple or as elaborate as you want. 
I'll just have to mount a hitch to it so I can use my tractor or quad to drag it around. |
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Posted: 3/20/2019 10:54:09 AM EDT
[#11]
I had 12 of them for a while, they poo all over everything, i have shy of 2 acres and they came up on the porch to poo
after i stepped in it enough i got rid of them. the eggs were ok, at first it was fun to watch them and the grandson had a blast with them. |
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Posted: 3/20/2019 11:21:36 AM EDT
[#12]
Owning 4 was interesting......for a while.
Our yard looked like this after about 2 months: 
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Posted: 3/20/2019 2:37:00 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Owning 4 was interesting......for a while. Our yard looked like this after about 2 months: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e6/Chateauwood.jpg/1200px-Chateauwood.jpg 
Hey, I dont have to invest anything as I'm getting all of the stuff including the chickens given to me. I cant complain, we'll reassess after a year. |
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Posted: 3/20/2019 7:41:59 PM EDT
[#14]
Where abouts in CT? I've got a good buddy up there that does chickens if you need any assistance in getting things going. Mostly eggs but some meat birds. He's in harwinton if your nearby.
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Posted: 3/20/2019 8:59:16 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Where abouts in CT? I've got a good buddy up there that does chickens if you need any assistance in getting things going. Mostly eggs but some meat birds. He's in harwinton if your nearby. Ironically my brother lives if FL, Orlando. Where about are you? |
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Posted: 3/21/2019 1:08:50 PM EDT
[#16]
My 9 year old son wants chickens. He has no idea how much shit they generate. If they free range and you leave it outside, it will have chicken shit on it eventually. My grandfather had some huge pens with net on top to keep the hawks out after he free ranged for years. Even with that, he had to implement some controls. I was always surprised that an 80 year old man wearing bifocals could inflict so much predatory control with a Marlin 22.
He had to use an electric fence to keep them out of his garden too. I'd build a big pen and a chicken tractor if I was gonna do it again, but I'm not going to. |
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Posted: 3/23/2019 6:46:19 PM EDT
[#17]
Due West of there in Brooksville. About 2hrs. I used to live in terryville, moved 2 years ago and haven't looked back.
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Posted: 3/24/2019 8:53:31 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Due West of there in Brooksville. About 2hrs. I used to live in terryville, moved 2 years ago and haven't looked back. |
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Posted: 3/29/2019 3:34:35 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Wife and I got 2 chickens, Barred Rocks, last year. They started laying July or August. We keep them in a 2-chicken coop, and keep that inside a dog run like this: https://mobileimages.lowes.com/product/converted/651082/651082830032.jpg We've screened over the top with shade cloth. We've been lucky, no predators other than doggies have tried to get in and they were unsuccessful. SIX chickens will net you 5-6 eggs per day! They say that home-raised chicken eggs produce less bad cholesterol, and more good cholesterol, than store-bought. But that's still a LOT of eggs! 2 a day is more than we like to eat (my son doesn't like eggs except to cook with). One thing we learned is that chickens will peck at anything that is red (i.e. blood). This will keep an injured chicken from healing, so you'll have to remove her from the flock. There's a product called Peck No More that we used. Also there's a special chicken antibiotic, and a spray ointment to help them heal; these are useful. Look at the chicken thread, this is all covered there! If you have small kids, they will love them. My daughter carries them around like pets. She collects their eggs and fills their water each day, and my son feeds them in the morning. They are pretty low maintenance and their eggs are much better than store-bought. |
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Posted: 3/29/2019 3:45:33 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Hey, I dont have to invest anything as I'm getting all of the stuff including the chickens given to me. I cant complain, we'll reassess after a year. "OOOOOOOOO soft ground that's got lots of loose stuff in it. Here let me fluff that up and take a bath in the dirt!" Says the chicken. No more mulch. Chickens are awesome. I love the sounds they make. Very soothing. Chickens actually like people, in my experience. Chickens are destructive to gardens unless they have LARGE amounts of space to run in. Get the eggs quickly. Don't let them lie around in the nest. Chickens will accidentally break them, then eat the egg, then there is no going back. That chicken will have to be history. |
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Posted: 4/3/2019 1:25:14 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
He is not kidding about the yard looking like Agent Orange hit it. Chickens will defoliate EVERYTHING except mature trees, and they will do it fast. If you have landcaping you care about, they will make dust baths in the mulch. They will eat the foliage. They will eat the fruits of your labor. They will pick the petals off the flowers. "ooooo...pretty colors!" Says the chicken. Peck pull, peck pull...no more flower. "OOOOOOOOO soft ground that's got lots of loose stuff in it. Here let me fluff that up and take a bath in the dirt!" Says the chicken. No more mulch. Chickens are awesome. I love the sounds they make. Very soothing. Chickens actually like people, in my experience. Chickens are destructive to gardens unless they have LARGE amounts of space to run in. Get the eggs quickly. Don't let them lie around in the nest. Chickens will accidentally break them, then eat the egg, then there is no going back. That chicken will have to be history. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Hey, I dont have to invest anything as I'm getting all of the stuff including the chickens given to me. I cant complain, we'll reassess after a year. "OOOOOOOOO soft ground that's got lots of loose stuff in it. Here let me fluff that up and take a bath in the dirt!" Says the chicken. No more mulch. Chickens are awesome. I love the sounds they make. Very soothing. Chickens actually like people, in my experience. Chickens are destructive to gardens unless they have LARGE amounts of space to run in. Get the eggs quickly. Don't let them lie around in the nest. Chickens will accidentally break them, then eat the egg, then there is no going back. That chicken will have to be history.
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Posted: 4/4/2019 10:55:05 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Thanks, we have 8 acres (about 3 cleared) and the rest are woods. Hopefully they will stay out of the gardens and keep to the woods/fields. I will be sure to get the eggs quickly although fresh roasted chicken doesnt sound so bad As for roasting them, I agree, but most roasters are no more than 6 months old or so. We just had a chicken presentation at my son's 4H, and thats what she told us. She had a tiny little bird with her, looked like a large pheasant. She laid it on its side and drew a line in front of her beak with her finger; the chicken seemed to be sedated for about a minute. Anyone ever experience this? I tried it with my birds but they wouldn't have any of it. |
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Posted: 4/4/2019 11:36:28 AM EDT
[#23]
Pick which buddy you will give the chickens and coop when you are tired of cleaning up and feeding.
Many can last a year. Some can't. Best advice is to make it your children's project.
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Posted: 4/4/2019 11:53:38 AM EDT
[#24]
In before” you got 6 roosters”
Ask me how I know....... 
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Posted: 4/4/2019 4:40:06 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Thanks, we have 8 acres (about 3 cleared) and the rest are woods. Hopefully they will stay out of the gardens and keep to the woods/fields. I will be sure to get the eggs quickly although fresh roasted chicken doesnt sound so bad 40 acres, no one around, no gardens, half woods - and their chicken coop is inside one set of woods. They still shit everywhere. |
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Posted: 4/4/2019 7:38:27 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
In before” you got 6 roosters” Ask me how I know....... |
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Posted: 4/4/2019 7:43:21 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That sucks. How'd they taste? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
In before" you got 6 roosters" Ask me how I know....... 
The other four became frozen dog treats. They loved them! 
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Posted: 4/7/2019 5:56:31 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Wife and I got 2 chickens, Barred Rocks, last year. They started laying July or August. We keep them in a 2-chicken coop, and keep that inside a dog run like this: https://mobileimages.lowes.com/product/converted/651082/651082830032.jpg We've screened over the top with shade cloth. We've been lucky, no predators other than doggies have tried to get in and they were unsuccessful. SIX chickens will net you 5-6 eggs per day! They say that home-raised chicken eggs produce less bad cholesterol, and more good cholesterol, than store-bought. But that's still a LOT of eggs! 2 a day is more than we like to eat (my son doesn't like eggs except to cook with). One thing we learned is that chickens will peck at anything that is red (i.e. blood). This will keep an injured chicken from healing, so you'll have to remove her from the flock. There's a product called Peck No More that we used. Also there's a special chicken antibiotic, and a spray ointment to help them heal; these are useful. Look at the chicken thread, this is all covered there! You want a hen house/coop surrounded by fencing, with something over the top as noted above (I use welded wire fencing). You want to plug as many holes as you can. You can also bury some 1/2" metal fencing a few inches below ground around the fence in case predators try to dig under it. Never, ever, ever leave your chickens to free-range unless you're OK with losing them. I've had a predator take a chicken with me no more than 30 feet away in some moderately thick brush. If they see an opportunity, they take it. We let our chickens out daily during the spring/summer/fall, but we always have eyes on them. |
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Posted: 4/7/2019 6:00:55 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Owning 4 was interesting......for a while. Our yard looked like this after about 2 months: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e6/Chateauwood.jpg/1200px-Chateauwood.jpg
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Posted: 4/7/2019 6:26:37 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
BYC is one of the best information sites on chickens, any question you can think of, the answer is probably there. |
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Posted: 4/8/2019 3:21:23 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Stock up on ammo for the 12 gauge. I loved having chickens, they are quite entertaining and fresh, free range eggs are fantastic. But eventually the foxes found out where we lived. After that, it was a constant battle. I shot many of them (6-7, maybe more), but we kept losing chickens. It seemed that as soon as replacements would start laying, they would get killed. The only way we could keep them reasonably safe was to keep them penned up 24/7. But then the eggs were not much better than ones we could buy in the store. Reluctantly, we didn't replace the last few that were killed. |
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Posted: 4/8/2019 6:52:58 PM EDT
[#32]
this by no means is meant to discourage you, or anyone from owning chickens, however after owning 12+ birds for a few years to going back to just buying farm fresh eggs when I need them I must say the burden of not having to carry feed, deal with hawks and other animals ( including my own shepherds) is bliss... I spent about 600 on a coop and pen, had automatic feeders/waters the whole works to make it as simple as possible, but in the end, I was just too time consuming and expensive of a hobby to make it worth it... I had so many eggs I couldnt even give them away fast enough, let alone sell them.. My property became a hawk/possum/fox drive thru... Nightly I was killing something in the yard, even with two german shepherds, and hawks were the worst, My run was not built right for my location, and that was my fault... the only thing chicken wire is good for is keeping chicken corrailed, do not expect it to keep things out... burry whatever fence you go with a good foot or two and surround the base of it with rocks, and check it often for signs of things tunneling in, and put metal roof over your run, A... as the poster above mentioned after about 2 weeks your gonna have nothing but a dirt hole, and the rain turns it into a giant mud pit that slowly erodes away the ground to where your fence is useless and B. birds of prey will dive bomb a fence and either get stuck in, or poke through and kill everything inside and get stuck inside... I have been planning a new run, and toying with the idea of getting birds again, but everytime its -20 degrees outside, I think to myself thank god I dont have to go outside every few hours to water my birds... learn from my mistakes, hopefully its more enjoyable for you... Oh, and one last piece of advice, if your wife/girlfriend and kids wanna get chickens and promise to help out, remember once the novelty wears off (and it will) you will be the one stuck with all of the work..
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Posted: 4/9/2019 12:55:34 AM EDT
[#33]
I've kept 14 hens and two roosters going by building a fort knox.
No chicken wire, get the green painted stuff that has holes like 3" by 1" That is a roof. down below they sell stuff that is 1/2" square. It needs to be small enough that a raccoon can't get his hand in there but tough enough that a coyote can't bust through. I basically built an A frame 20' tall aviary that hand walkways, ladders, ramps and all kind of cool stuff. I have never had a problem with hawks, but lots of coyote prints on the side of my coop and of course raccoon. The only thing that has died from my CCW is a couple of 'coons. It is a fun hobby. I got some eggs from amazon for" Buff Laced Polish hens". 2 out of 12 made it through my cheapo incubator. But this one named Phyllis Diller would ride on the tractor with me. 
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Posted: 4/9/2019 1:00:14 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Look into Chicken Tractors (images link) These provide an easy way to protect the birds and move them around outside. They can be as simple or as elaborate as you want. |
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Posted: 4/9/2019 10:06:27 AM EDT
[#35]
Everything seems to be going well, coop should be ready next week and thr birds should be ready for it shortly after that. They're getting big quick. The coop hasnt cost me much as I have been using pallets and crates from work to build it. I'm still exploring my fencing options for the run.
The kids and wife do most of the caring for them which is nice. |
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Posted: 4/9/2019 10:11:55 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
this by no means is meant to discourage you, or anyone from owning chickens, however after owning 12+ birds for a few years to going back to just buying farm fresh eggs when I need them I must say the burden of not having to carry feed, deal with hawks and other animals ( including my own shepherds) is bliss... I spent about 600 on a coop and pen, had automatic feeders/waters the whole works to make it as simple as possible, but in the end, I was just too time consuming and expensive of a hobby to make it worth it... I had so many eggs I couldnt even give them away fast enough, let alone sell them.. My property became a hawk/possum/fox drive thru... Nightly I was killing something in the yard, even with two german shepherds, and hawks were the worst, My run was not built right for my location, and that was my fault... the only thing chicken wire is good for is keeping chicken corrailed, do not expect it to keep things out... burry whatever fence you go with a good foot or two and surround the base of it with rocks, and check it often for signs of things tunneling in, and put metal roof over your run, A... as the poster above mentioned after about 2 weeks your gonna have nothing but a dirt hole, and the rain turns it into a giant mud pit that slowly erodes away the ground to where your fence is useless and B. birds of prey will dive bomb a fence and either get stuck in, or poke through and kill everything inside and get stuck inside... I have been planning a new run, and toying with the idea of getting birds again, but everytime its -20 degrees outside, I think to myself thank god I dont have to go outside every few hours to water my birds... learn from my mistakes, hopefully its more enjoyable for you... Oh, and one last piece of advice, if your wife/girlfriend and kids wanna get chickens and promise to help out, remember once the novelty wears off (and it will) you will be the one stuck with all of the work.. Not because it's too much work; it isn't. But because I am really really tired of the chickens getting in and shitting in my shop. Not only the floors (that might be tolerable) but they get up on my work benches and - yep you guessed it - shit everywhere.
I've got about 50 eggs in the frig, with another 8-10 coming in this morning. |
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Posted: 4/9/2019 2:54:37 PM EDT
[#37]
Pro tip: Handle the chickies often. If your chickens are used to being handled, they won't be so skittish when you, say, have to catch them to put them into the coop at night.
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Posted: 4/10/2019 9:09:36 AM EDT
[#38]
I grew up with free range chickens on 20 acres. It was possible to have gardens and predators didn’t decimate them, but there were some variables that factored into that.
First, we had two flocks that stayed separate. The first was a mixture of standard domestic chickens. The second was Florida Cracker “game” chickens, which were basically Red Jungle Fowl. The jungle fowl lived like wild turkeys and free ranged much further than the standard domestic breeds. They were the ones most likely to encounter predators but also the ones best at defeating predators. At night they roosted high in the trees while the domestic chickens roosted in the hen house. The jungle fowl makegood meat chickens but poor laying chickens because they won’t nest in the hen house. They nest in the woods. We had free range dogs. The dogs went a long way in keeping snakes and mammal predators away. The only predator that required direct human intervention were hawks. And I think there are more hawks today than there were back then. We kept the coop close to the house. Had the coop been far away from the house Im sure more predators would have made attempts to get in it. Can’t say why they didn’t get into the gardens, except maybe the gardens were in open fields and the chickens despised being out in the open. They stuck to the woods and the fence lines where they had cover overhead. We’re about to start up chickens on my current farm. But predators will be bad due to being in the actual undeveloped woods. |
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Posted: 4/10/2019 9:15:50 AM EDT
[#39]
Chickens are easy to take care of. If you live in a rural area with fox, hawks, etc. just make sure to lock them in at night. We have ours in a neighborhood and they free range all day in the backyard and come back to the coop at night. Even the dogs have learned to protect them by barking when hawks come around. Haven't lost one in 3 years. Feed them a good organic "Layer" food and you will get the biggest, best tasting eggs you have ever had. Our are like pets at this point. They will jump into your lap if you let them. Oh, and get some dried meal worms as a treat. It's like crack to chickens.
One other point. Block any area off you don't want covered in crap. They will crap everywhere. |
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Posted: 4/10/2019 12:42:20 PM EDT
[#40]
Oh, and get some dried meal worms as a treat. It's like crack to chickens. |
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Posted: 4/11/2019 9:24:00 AM EDT
[#41]
Crap! Accidentally killed one of my Leghorn hens yesterday. Two of them were in my shop and I went to chase them out; typically I use a broom stick. Usually I swat them across their butt to make my point. Accidentally hit her behind the head, instant death.
Then later in the day, while feeding them some chicken treats (dry cat food), my Australorp rooster was acting like a real shit to my Barred Rock rooster; wouldn't let him get near the treats, chasing him away, snapping at him. Got sick of it. Took a Ruger to him. No big loss there. I'm gonna miss all those white eggs though. 
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Posted: 4/12/2019 7:27:26 AM EDT
[#42]
Just learned something this morning. If you end up losing your chickens to varmints immediately clean out and secure the coop or take it down. Otherwise, you will be surprised by 3 damn raccoons a few weeks later when you finally get around to cleaning it. Luckily I had my pistol with me.
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Posted: 4/12/2019 11:54:07 AM EDT
[#43]
I've had chickens for years, down to 5 now, but getting rid of them.
Once I get done rebuilding the property, I may take them up again, but maybe not. But I think I now have an idea for the "ideal" coop, after a *few* different versions over the years. If your in it for the eggs, it isn't cheaper than town (unless you buy $5 organic eggs in town). If we didn't have kids playing in the grass and around everything else, I would keep some free-ranging just for insect control. |
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Posted: 4/18/2019 1:33:48 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I've kept 14 hens and two roosters going by building a fort knox. No chicken wire, get the green painted stuff that has holes like 3" by 1" That is a roof. down below they sell stuff that is 1/2" square. It needs to be small enough that a raccoon can't get his hand in there but tough enough that a coyote can't bust through. I basically built an A frame 20' tall aviary that hand walkways, ladders, ramps and all kind of cool stuff. I have never had a problem with hawks, but lots of coyote prints on the side of my coop and of course raccoon. The only thing that has died from my CCW is a couple of 'coons. It is a fun hobby. I got some eggs from amazon for" Buff Laced Polish hens". 2 out of 12 made it through my cheapo incubator. But this one named Phyllis Diller would ride on the tractor with me. https://static3.mypetchicken.com/images/chickenPix/large/163612_10150142864699027_6024112_n.jpg You have any pics of your Chicken Fort Knox? I would like to see them. We are about to update our Chicken Palace, and want to make it more secure. Sounds like you put hardware cloth around yours. |
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Posted: 4/18/2019 1:35:16 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm on my 2nd group of 12 or so and after 3 years, I'm about done. Not because it's too much work; it isn't. But because I am really really tired of the chickens getting in and shitting in my shop. Not only the floors (that might be tolerable) but they get up on my work benches and - yep you guessed it - shit everywhere.
I've got about 50 eggs in the frig, with another 8-10 coming in this morning. How the heck do they get in your shop? Inquiring minds want to know.
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Posted: 4/18/2019 2:03:00 AM EDT
[#46]
By the time you get the coop, fence, feed, dishes, auto door, pet dog to protect them, ducks and geese to keep them company, incubator, etc, etc, etc.....
you should be down to about $10 per egg. I know I am at least that low. Hoping for $9.50 in 6-8 years. |
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Posted: 4/18/2019 6:49:00 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
By the time you get the coop, fence, feed, dishes, auto door, pet dog to protect them, ducks and geese to keep them company, incubator, etc, etc, etc..... you should be down to about $10 per egg. I know I am at least that low. Hoping for $9.50 in 6-8 years. Semper Fi |
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Posted: 4/18/2019 10:06:11 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
12 is too many. How the heck do they get in your shop? Inquiring minds want to know. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I'm on my 2nd group of 12 or so and after 3 years, I'm about done. Not because it's too much work; it isn't. But because I am really really tired of the chickens getting in and shitting in my shop. Not only the floors (that might be tolerable) but they get up on my work benches and - yep you guessed it - shit everywhere.
I've got about 50 eggs in the frig, with another 8-10 coming in this morning. How the heck do they get in your shop? Inquiring minds want to know.
It's gotten better though: If I open the chicken run to let the chickens out, I keep the shop closed up. |
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Posted: 4/19/2019 1:21:15 AM EDT
[#49]
Fun fact: Chickens go nuts for mealy worms! It's good to remember this; if they go somewhere you don't want them to go, you bring out a can of worms (no pun intended) and feed them one at a time, doing a 'Pied Piper' sort of thing.
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Posted: 4/20/2019 3:51:41 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Fun fact: Chickens go nuts for mealy worms! It's good to remember this; if they go somewhere you don't want them to go, you bring out a can of worms (no pun intended) and feed them one at a time, doing a 'Pied Piper' sort of thing. |
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