Am I an idiot for choosing an M14/M1A? (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 7/26/2023 3:03:00 PM EDT
| I’m looking for a new deer rifle in .308. I was pretty much set on a Ruger Gunsite Scout with an XS rail, which I can get NIB for $955 including tax. Here’s where things took a turn. I asked my sister for a sling for my birthday and received a text weeks later, after my birthday, saying that she didn’t want to have any gun stuff “on her conscience” so she didn’t buy me anything. It got me thinking about picking up a Fulton Armory barreled M14 action for $1300 instead, and building that out… just because it’s extra scary. Plus, I’ve always wanted an M14/M1A as a fun gun to go with my Garand and ARs. Should I go ahead and get the GSR and save the M14/M1A for later? |
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They are pretty cool, but you know the answer for hunting. Get something you can get an optic on easier. Attached File |
"The true soldier fights not because he hates what is in front of him, but because he loves what is behind him."
G. K. Chesterton
G. K. Chesterton
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I have shot a few of the Ruger GSRs and they have all been pretty disappointing in the accuracy department so I always give them a no vote. I used to have a Springfield m1a scout, cool rifle, pretty accurate but not my favorite ergos and a real pain to mount optics on. I would suggest a more standard bolt rifle if you want to go that route, maybe a Ruger American predator in 308, they get great accuracy reviews (don't know why they can't rub some of that on the GSR) and the couple I have shot are accurate as well. If you want something to ruffle your sisters feathers maybe just get an AR10, that's what I do most of my deer hunting with these days. Great ergos, easy optics attachment, tons of accessories out there for them. just my .02 ymmv. |
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I mean if its what you want and you are paying for it.. I always say get what you want, heck with everyone else... |
LARUEMINATI
NRA Endowment Life Member
Originally Posted By Boom_Stick:
""AKs are for villagers you have to tell not to shit in their water supply.""
NRA Endowment Life Member
Originally Posted By Boom_Stick:
""AKs are for villagers you have to tell not to shit in their water supply.""
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I’ve got an Aero M5E1 that I’m really happy with as a fully modern .308. The Ruger SFAR (and the DPMS G2 and the POF R-guns) doesn’t really tempt me for weight savings. The M1A SOCOM II was the first gun that I thought looked cool, before I was old enough to buy one. I’m not really interested in hanging a quad rail from an M1A anymore, but I definitely still want an M1A or M14 of some kind. Definitely going to get one at some point for nostalgia. For this .308, I’m looking for: traditional stock, not a lever action, scope mount above the action, and iron sights as back up. The Skinner Sights scout rail and a Tikka T3X or Ruger American Predator were options, but I’m solidly in between the Ruger Gunsite Scout and XS rail or the M14/M1A and Sadlak mount for this purchase. |
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Originally Posted By masiaka: I’ve got an Aero M5E1 that I’m really happy with as a fully modern .308. The Ruger SFAR (and the DPMS G2 and the POF R-guns) doesn’t really tempt me for weight savings. The M1A SOCOM II was the first gun that I thought looked cool, before I was old enough to buy one. I’m not really interested in hanging a quad rail from an M1A anymore, but I definitely still want an M1A or M14 of some kind. Definitely going to get one at some point for nostalgia. For this .308, I’m looking for: traditional stock, not a lever action, scope mount above the action, and iron sights as back up. The Skinner Sights scout rail and a Tikka T3X or Ruger American Predator were options, but I’m solidly in between the Ruger Gunsite Scout and XS rail or the M14/M1A and Sadlak mount for this purchase. I will add this to my original post. If you are 100% only picking between the GSR and the m1a I would go m1a because all the GSRs I have ever shot have been steaming piles, just my anecdotal experience. |
| An M1A/M14 is a great addition to a collection. Since I have AR10s, an M14-type wouldn't be my first choice for a hunting rifle, but one with a red dot is very handy and definitely capable. |
"What is socialism? The most difficult and tortuous way to progress from capitalism to capitalism." -Stated at an intel conference, East Berlin, Oct. 1988
"Every election is a sort of advance auction sale of stolen goods." -H.L. Mencken
"Every election is a sort of advance auction sale of stolen goods." -H.L. Mencken
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Originally Posted By FightingHellfish: I’ve hunted with an M1A and a Ruger GSR. I’d rather take the Ruger hunting. This. The GSR is more handy and carryable by a good deal. Terminal performance is identical. The M1A is cool for sure, but is unwieldy heavy if you’re carrying it hunting for much distance. I like hunting with irons too, but if you want to hunt scoped, the Ruger is just easier to do that with. Unless you want to upgrade to an M21 LRB receiver. |
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Killed the biggest buck of my life with an M1A, I used it to commerate my FIL's passing and last hunt in his woods. He carried one in vietnam USMC, and liked shooting mine so it made sense. For regular hunting I would probably get the GSR as it's much easier to scope and handle. |
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I carried my M1a with scope around the UP for a deer season and by day two I was regretting that decision. Besides being heavy , it seemed to get caught on every freaking branch. The party I was with laughed at me when I showed up , but I didn't show any hatred or indication I made a bad decision to them. I did run stumble into a sleeping bear that season and was glad to have the semi in hand , though not needed. |
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Originally Posted By durtychemist: If you were planning on buying a new scope for the new rifle you should spend the extra $3-400 on a BETTER scope instead of a more expensive gun you’ll need a scope for. Sound and solid advice. |
"What is socialism? The most difficult and tortuous way to progress from capitalism to capitalism." -Stated at an intel conference, East Berlin, Oct. 1988
"Every election is a sort of advance auction sale of stolen goods." -H.L. Mencken
"Every election is a sort of advance auction sale of stolen goods." -H.L. Mencken
| Okay, you all have convinced me to get the M1A *after* the deer rifle. Gunsite Scout and a Vortex Viper first, then the M1A and an Aimpoint to pay tribute to Randy Shughart. If I want to punish myself, I can take my .308 Garand out for a day. |
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Originally Posted By masiaka: Okay, you all have convinced me to get the M1A *after* the deer rifle. Gunsite Scout and a Vortex Viper first, then the M1A and an Aimpoint to pay tribute to Randy Shughart. If I want to punish myself, I can take my .308 Garand out for a day. My man. 
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"What is socialism? The most difficult and tortuous way to progress from capitalism to capitalism." -Stated at an intel conference, East Berlin, Oct. 1988
"Every election is a sort of advance auction sale of stolen goods." -H.L. Mencken
"Every election is a sort of advance auction sale of stolen goods." -H.L. Mencken
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Originally Posted By masiaka: Okay, you all have convinced me to get the M1A *after* the deer rifle. Gunsite Scout and a Vortex Viper first, then the M1A and an Aimpoint to pay tribute to Randy Shughart. If I want to punish myself, I can take my .308 Garand out for a day. I took my first deer in 1990 with the only rifle I had at the time, a blue sky import M1 Garand. 
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Originally Posted By Sajer: I carried my M1a with scope around the UP for a deer season and by day two I was regretting that decision. Besides being heavy , it seemed to get caught on every freaking branch. The party I was with laughed at me when I showed up , but I didn't show any hatred or indication I made a bad decision to them. I did run stumble into a sleeping bear that season and was glad to have the semi in hand , though not needed. I had the exact experience when I took my M1A on a deer hunt up around Bemidji MN. Heavy rifle to be lugging through the woods, and that distinctive loud "clack" when you pushed the safety off. I bought a Browning BAR hunting rifle in 30-06 the next summer and had a Williams peep sight mounted on it. Much better choice for deer hunting. Gary |
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Not an idiot. Buy what you like and support the companies that still offer them. I have an M1A loaded (parkerized with synthetic stock), and my dad has an M1A loaded (stainless barrel and wood stock). He deeply regretted trading his M1A National Match from back in the 90s. I enjoy the rifle, wouldn't mind grabbing a scout squad for a slightly shorter barrel. |
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Originally Posted By jagdkommando: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/146923/IMG_2454-2892710.jpg This is the Ruger 308 you want for hunting. The new SFAR. Its about the same size as a 5.56 AR15. @jagdkommando …very nice Buut I’ve been there and done that.. except I chose 6.8 spc. However, if you’re forced to choose to hunt with a scary weapon, this here is the way👆 In my AO, thick underbrush filled hardwoods and cattail wetlands at subzero temps, the AR platform is not my cup of tea. When it comes to hunting I’m a fudd gun type of fella. Attached File Attached File Attached File |
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I have a few M14 rifles. I keep a hunting battery ready for the season, I change things up from year to year but a two or three gun battery has at least on non scoped foul weather gun. A gun that won’t have a scope ocular filled with snow or misted on water. Yea, I know they make scope caps but I broke my fair share of those through the years. Anyways I have two such rainy day stalking rifles, one being an 18” barreled LRB in a USGI fiberglas stock. Iron sights and a five round mag. (The other is my dad’s old Marlin 336 .30-30. I the the LRB is lighter or at least feels handier than the 336. Frankly the M14 is much easier to dry out thoroughly after getting soaked than the 336, plus no wood to risk swelling and promote rust later. Edit, oh, and if you want to quietly take a M14/M1a off of safe simply pinch the front and back of the safety and control it as you move it forward. Assuming you have time to be slow and deliberate like that. |
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m1a may not turn out as accurate as you want it to be for hunting. A scoped m1a is gonna be a beast to carry if you are planning on humping it. I've carried lighter guns and heavier guns. If I have to walk a lot, ill stick with the lighter guns. If I have a destination and a short walk I might go heavier. |
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Whoever said Ruger, you cost me. This thing is incredible. 120 flawless rounds first time out. Attached File |
"The true soldier fights not because he hates what is in front of him, but because he loves what is behind him."
G. K. Chesterton
G. K. Chesterton
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Idiot? I don’t think so. I do think it is a LOT of weight to lug very far in the woods. They also take some $$$ to get. Good scope mount for them. I have both M1A’s and scout rifles. The Ruger worh a 1-8 or 2-10 would be my choice. I see you are in the south. Any 150 grcup and core bullet or a Nosler BT in the same weight will do you just fine till you get to where the deer are larger. |
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Originally Posted By smullen: I mean if its what you want and you are paying for it.. I always say get what you want, heck with everyone else... Agreed 100%, last two deer I harvested was with an m1a. Fantastic rifle and experience. Stupidly traded it a few years later when I stopped hunting but I fixed that last year. Love my m1a!!! |
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Originally Posted By NesralG: @jagdkommando …very nice Buut I’ve been there and done that.. except I chose 6.8 spc. However, if you’re forced to choose to hunt with a scary weapon, this here is the way👆 In my AO, thick underbrush filled hardwoods and cattail wetlands at subzero temps, the AR platform is not my cup of tea. When it comes to hunting I’m a fudd gun type of fella. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/577174/20201122_092333_jpg-2932176.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/577174/20181117_102355_jpg-2932178.JPGhttps://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/577174/20181117_081706_jpg-2932179.JPG Wow, that old boy has been in some battles. Any idea how old he was? |
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I know a couple of guys who hunt with their M1 Garands. One reason Shuff’s Mini-Gs are popular “chopped” conversions of full-size M1s is because a true 16.1” semi-auto carbine makes for a nice compact and light(er) hunting implement. He also builds them in big-game capable chamberings: .30-06, .308, and .35 Whelen. Being clip-fed by 8- or 5-rd “hunting” clips makes the weapon 50-states legal, at least where hunting regs allow you to use a semi-auto. In .308, Shuff can also build a magazine-fed Mini-G which runs on standard M1A mags. So like a 16.1” M1A except the M1’s receiver is forged not cast. |
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Originally Posted By FightingHellfish: I’ve hunted with an M1A and a Ruger GSR. I’d rather take the Ruger hunting. I take a model 7 more often due to its nice light weight.... BUT I do have a hunting load for my 18” LRB. I like having an unscoped gun for rain or heavy snowfall days. No fogging of lenses. I switch back and forth between my dad’s Marlin 336 and the LRB. Both are a touch heavy. Edit lol, old thread, And I already hit it. |
The only hyphenated names I like are cartridge names......30-06, 30-40, 38-55 etc.
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Originally Posted By jack_pine_savage: I had the exact experience when I took my M1A on a deer hunt up around Bemidji MN. Heavy rifle to be lugging through the woods, and that distinctive loud "clack" when you pushed the safety off. I bought a Browning BAR hunting rifle in 30-06 the next summer and had a Williams peep sight mounted on it. Much better choice for deer hunting. Gary When trying to be stealthy with that safety I pinch it front and back around the trigger guard strap. The front finger receives the safety as it passes through and controls the moment so the heavy spring weight doesn’t cause the heavy click. A minor nuisance but controlled with forethought. |
The only hyphenated names I like are cartridge names......30-06, 30-40, 38-55 etc.
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Hey sis, can you buy me a sling for one of my rifles for my birthday? Sister: What?!?!? Guns and gun owners are tah-debil!!! No! You'll get nothing and like it!! Internal Monologue: No sling? Well I better get that M1A I've been drooling over. I can use it to hunt and recover from the emotional damage my sister inflicted upon me. I say your logic is infallible, sir! |
Goddamnit, I'd piss on a spark plug if I thought it would do any good.
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I really like the m1a. It’s surprisingly good for 3 gun type stuff. As a hunting rifle it’s shit. Static accuracy is not what is excels at. You can force it to do that but it’ll take time and money. With shims, bedding, and match ammo I can maybe squeeze 2moa out of my socom (3x scope) |
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I own both an M1A scout 18", and a Ruger SFAR 16". I have hunted with the M1A, I have carried SFAR, but have not killed with it yet, but it's just an AR15 size gun in 308, so there's no real surprises. My goal with the SFAR was to make it my main hunting rifle from day 1. My goal with the M1A was first for fun, then to try 3 gun, then after moving and no 3 gun nearby, the M1A went back to being for fun, but also found use for hunting. Obviously each rifle varies so some might get better ones than others. I feel both of mine are good examples of "average" expectations you will find. My M1A scout has been 100% reliable from day 1. I never did anything to it, and this is the normal expectation. They are a fleshed out design and reliability is one of their strong points. The gas system of the M1A is VERY tolerant of even large changes in ammo, more tolerant of any other semi auto 308 I've ever used. The gas port specs 12,500 psi plus or minus 2,000 psi, but they will operate outside that range. If you go too high you would be beating on the gun, but you have to be doing some unconventional stuff like using IMR 4350 or Reloader 17 powders. If you keep to normal powders about Varget speed or slower, you shouldn't run into an issue ever. The general rule is 180 grain bullets or lighter will also keep you safe. On the low end I've gone as far as a port pressure of about 7,500 psi that will cycle and lock back the bolt. That was a cast bullet with a reduced load of rifle powder, IMR 3031 or IMR 4895. This is with no adjustments at all, so you have a HUGE window they will operate in. The size and weight of the M1A is not bad, it's just that the recent introduction of lighter options have made it seem heavy. If you go back even 15 years, your only reasonable price options for a semi auto 308 hunting rifle were an AR10 (DPMS gen1) style rifle, which are often 9 1/2 pounds or heavier empty and no scope. An FAL or variant/clone is all of 9 1/2 pounds. The standard M14/M1A is also right there about 9 1/2 pounds. When the SCAR 17 came out, it was revolutionary at about 8 pounds. My particular Springfield M1A scout with a big red birch and bedded wood stock is only about 9 1/4 pounds with no scope. With the plastic stock it was right at or under 9 pounds. It's spec says 8.8 pounds, so keep that in mind. Relatively, the M1A scout is not a heavy rifle unless you compare it to rifles that have only come out in the last few years. Bulk-wise, the M1A is not bad either. Mine is a little thicker with the big red stock, but that is a choice. There are less bulky stocks. Overall length is not bad at all. Standing side by side with my 16" barrel SFAR, it's only about 1 1/2" longer, and that with the threaded muzzle adapter, which is about 1/2" past the barrel muzzle. It's not an unreasonably big gun by any standard. The accuracy is the big downside to the M1A. Some have claimed 2 moa out of the box, but that would have to be a really good set of luck for that to happen. For the most part I would expect 3" to 5" groups from a normal out of the box M1A scout in the plastic stock. In my case I chose to have mine accurized, which at the time was about $500 for a bedding, gas system unitized, and a couple other tweaks such as match sights. Mine in the plastic stock would sometimes group 3" to 4", but then it would shift POI, and this was due to a sloppy fit in the stock. After the bedding it can do 2" at 100 yards with the right ammo, but 2 1/2" or even 3" groups are not uncommon with lesser performing ammo. I have not yet find anything that will group under 2". This is less of an issue with the rifle itself, but more a poor quality barrel from Springfield. With a good barrel like a Kreiger, these can be MOA rifles, but I would not expect sub MOA unless you really got your ducks in a row. If we compare the accuracy to the SFAR, mine out of the box was on par with my accurized M1A. I have even found a load that will shoot 1 1/2" at 100 yards, which is about as good of accuracy as anyone is reporting in Ruger factory barrels. I would have to think the design of the SFAR should be capable of sub MOA accuracy with a high quality barrel, however, no such options exist yet that I have found. With enough money anything is possible. If we look closer at the SFAR, the reliability has a questionable history. There were for sure some design issues on the first of them, but today I think the design is sound. In my case my rifle came with a rough chamber that sometimes resulted in failure to extract, and would rip the rims off cases. This was fixed for free by Ruger, and has not happened since then. My gas system has been fine from the start, I have never had to adjust it, although I have just to see what happens. On gas setting 2 it seems to run all normal full power 308 ammo. There is going to be a much less forgiving system than the M1A. Setting 1 is only for suppressor use, and doesn't seem to operate at all without one. Setting 3 is for adverse use, which may allow some weaker ammo, but I doubt you are going to be able to download much. I also do not think you will get away with slower powders in this rifle. Varget has been working fine, but it start to eject pretty hard before you get to max loads. This rifle seems to do better with faster powders like IMR 3031, AR Comp, and IMR 8208. Some people have reported other issues too, such as a gas system issues that can be a loose gas block, or more to accuracy, a gas block that is contacting the handguard. It's a much less fleshed out rifle with growing pains and a less than ideal QC, but Ruger will stand behind their product. One issue that people always talk about with the M1A is scope mounting. I don't know what people did wrong, but the M1A is the single easiest rifle I have ever put a scope on. There's plenty of options out there. I'm a fan of the Bassett mount. It's just a single bolt, you screw it on using their special wrench, and that's that. It can't possibly get any easier. The SFAR by comparison is just like any AR, and it's better now, but there's no perfect option. I tried a handful of rings, nothing really worked great. I have a Leupold 1-piece mount meant for AR's on it now, and that' the best, but I wish it wasn't cantilevered forward like it is. It works fine though, don't get me wrong. But the M1A being hard to scope? Nonsense. They fit and function just fine with the Basset mount, mine is the standard, they also make a picatinny one. You will want a cheek riser on the M1A that you don't need on the SFAR, but that's easy to figure out. Another issue sometimes brought up is suppressors. The M1A is a very forgiving gas system, but it can be beneficial to turn it down with a supressor. There are at least two good options for this. The first is the Schuster adjustable gas plug. The second is a cross drilled gas valve. It is my opinion the cross drilled gas valve is the best option. It's tool-less adjustable, and it's only setting 1 or 2. One big thing to be aware of is if you have your gas system unitized, you have the option of welding or screw and glue. If you screw and glue, you can not use an adjustable gas valve since they are locked in place. For this reason I would recommend you weld your gas system if you do that, which still allows your gas valve to be turned. The only other thing you need is a threaded adapter. These are easy to find, and not too hard to install. Once you do that you just screw on your stuff and that's that. They function just like any other rifle. The SFAR comes with a threaded muzzle, as well as an adjustable gas system. I have not run mine with the suppressor yet so we will see how it does. The last thing is the intangibles, the feel when actually hunting. I will say the M1A is really nice feeling and carrying. It's a soft shooter, and it's a natural shooter. It's a soft shooter even with a bare muzzle. While the absolute accuracy may not be the greatest, it's a really nice rifle to shoot in a variety of conditions, and it holds it's POI with a variety of positions and rests. It shoots just as good off a backpack, as it does a sling, or off a bench. There are options to use a bipod with the M1A, but I have never tried it. The controls of the rifle are phenomenal. I much prefer the operating rod to an AR style release, charging handle, and forward assist. The safety is awesome, quiet and even easier ambidextrous. Last fall I took the M1A antelope hunting unscoped, so it was fairly light and nice to carry. I got a shot at a nice buck at 230 yards, and I took the shot prone with a ching sling, and could not have made a more perfect shot. The M1A is probably the best iron sighted rifle there is, but it does work fine with a scope too. I carried that rifle for miles that day. It was fairly warm, so after the shot I boogied to get it in the cooler. I didn't bone anything out. I quartered and bagged the antelope, threw it all in the pack, strapped the rifle to the pack, took the head in one arm, and the hide in the other and hiked out over 2 miles. I'm not saying that's an expectation, but if carrying a 7 pound rifle is fine, but carrying a 9 pound rifle is just way too much, you should really reconsider what is wrong. I'm not even talking about nonsense like do more push ups, you should find a better carry setup. All else equal, less is less, but the M1A is not a horrible rifle to carry. I have not killed anything with the SFAR yet. I've carried it once so far, it feels just like an AR15. I haven't found anything unusual about it. In shooting it, mine has been a very natural shooter, and seems to work at least prone off a bag. I have not tried it with a bipod or sling yet. I'm more interested how it does on a tripod. I have shot mine mostly with the muzzle brake it comes with, which works really good. I have shot it some with a bare muzzle, and it's actually not that bad. It is of course more recoil, but not quite as much as you would expect a rifle this light to be. If I didn't say before, mine was under 7 pounds, and with the scope and magazine, it's barely over 8 pounds. The recoil is noticeably abrupt compared to the M1A, but you get used to that. Hopefully this helps someone in deciding. In my own case, I'm not sure I've decided, or if I will even decide. Both rifles are sweet. To say one or the other is bad, or not for hunting, or anything like that is not giving them justice. |
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Originally Posted By SteelonSteel: When trying to be stealthy with that safety I pinch it front and back around the trigger guard strap. The front finger receives the safety as it passes through and controls the moment so the heavy spring weight doesn’t cause the heavy click. A minor nuisance but controlled with forethought. That's the way to do it, but there is a caveat. Some of them come with a safety hook that is so poorly fitting that the engage and disengage hard no matter what. If it hurts your finger to push them out as intended, you will gain a lot by fitting them. It's really easy to do, honestly the best thing to do is look at your trigger group and you will see what needs to be done. The hook of the safety grabs the hammer. All you need to do is file that hook until it just BARELY squeaks by. Some of them are so tight they are pulling back the hammer with the safety engaged, and that's why they are so hard to operate. When properly fitted they operate so smooth, and when used as you describe they are the quietest safety I have ever encountered. The only thing that can compare is a hammer gun that you can do the trigger trick with. |