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Posted: 6/4/2018 6:48:50 PM EDT
[#1]
GOT $$$$$$
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Posted: 6/4/2018 7:29:54 PM EDT
[#2]
PZL-104 Wilga is interesting. Probably simple enough to work on yourself., but parts might be a problem.
Chances of me having a plane is about zero. 
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Posted: 6/4/2018 7:34:18 PM EDT
[#3]
"modest one can haul 4-6 people" Keep with that thought and you will be quickly be removed from the crowds of people as you crash.
Most small piston powered aircraft in reality should remove one seat for weight control and safety. I.E. most 4 place planes are really a 3 place with very little additional luggage. A good read that kinda follows this topic is "Dog Stars" as a pilot I enjoyed reading it. |
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Posted: 6/4/2018 7:36:40 PM EDT
[#4]
yeah, if I had like a quarter million dollars I could piss away and time for a training class, I'm sure it would be super worth it. yeah, may be better, but outside the realm for average joes and middle class alike.
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Posted: 6/4/2018 7:41:58 PM EDT
[#5]
AN-2... Can haul a load (ammo is heavy) and more than 3-4 people too...
Single engine fixed gear... Russian Rugged & Simple! A Mosin Nagant of the Air! |
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Posted: 6/4/2018 8:50:44 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
GOT $$$$$$ Owned planes for 40+ years, basic fabric covered tail dragger through sophisticated turbine. Would be happy to answer questions. |
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Posted: 6/4/2018 9:01:53 PM EDT
[#7]
I always keep the Fuel in My G-650 topped off just for that reason.
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Posted: 6/4/2018 9:57:35 PM EDT
[#8]
I’m snagging a PC-12 or a BE-200. They have long range and can land anywhere.
Of course if I had warning, I’m taking my jet. |
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Posted: 6/4/2018 10:01:33 PM EDT
[#9]
Way ahead of ya..
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Posted: 6/4/2018 10:27:26 PM EDT
[#10]
Buy an Airwolf
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Posted: 6/4/2018 11:11:33 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
GOT $$$$$$ Its also something that you would use, vs just have, like most "preppers" I will buy 1K in freeze dried and some seeds but never use it. |
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Posted: 6/4/2018 11:13:28 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
, but outside the realm for average joes and middle class alike. |
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Posted: 6/4/2018 11:23:50 PM EDT
[#13]
I own a 182, which is a true 4 place aircraft. Six place planes are a LOT pricier.
That said, bad plan. First, you have to get to the airport, unless you live in an air park. Next your ability to carry supplies with all 4 seats filled is limited. Finally, what’s to say the place you are bugging out to is any safer? Now if you have a backyard grass strip and a STOL capable taildragger...maybe it’s an OK plan. If the weather cooperates on bugout day. Yeah, weather matters with flying...like a lot. What if there is convection that day? Or icing? Of low IFR conditions? Cost is relative. Figure a good 10k for training to PPL, not including an instrument rating (which I have). Figure about 50k for an airworthy but older bird (mine is a 1962 model year). That kind of coin can buy a lot of other prep options. Aviation is NOT cheap...worth it, but not cheap. I like what you’re selling, but not sure I’m buying. |
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Posted: 6/4/2018 11:27:18 PM EDT
[#14]
A kit plane for four people? That won’t be cheap. Better to get an older 172/piper. Four adults will be pushing max weight for either, especially if you need fuel
Where will you land? At your BoL? How far will you have to travel to get to your BoL or your first cache? Can you turn a wrench on your plane? Light sport you can without an A&P but not a four place aircraft. Emergencies sure, but do you actually know how to do it? Are you willing to not make it to where you want to go due to weather/fuel/mechanical/restricted flight (think 9/11)/etc.? I grew up having to fly or boat to the grocery store, it’s not easy, cheap, or without risk. I’ve been in an “off field” landing that the plane didn’t survive and I’ve lost lots of friends to both planes and helicopters. It wouldn’t be my first choice for SHTF but it does open possibilities and I can see that. |
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Posted: 6/5/2018 6:01:22 AM EDT
[#15]
Since there is nowhere better for me to fly to, a big out plane holds no value. I'd love to have a plane for fun but the odds of me needing one to bug out with is non existent.
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Posted: 6/5/2018 7:10:48 AM EDT
[#16]
You still have to survive the trip to the airport.
Nearly everything would have to be prepositioned at the BOL. Pray that some idiot didn't crash and burn in the middle of your runway. I love planes, but ADV bikes would probably make more sense. |
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Posted: 6/5/2018 8:24:55 AM EDT
[#17]
Quoted:
Most people have this fetish with vehicles and bugging out. I attribute most of this to mad max videos. It's probably one of the worst ways to get away from something everyone else is trying to get away from-It really is a poor idea Got to thinking about having a plane or access to one. Even a modest one can haul 4-6 people (enough for most families). One way trips happen fast (so you could leave later in a SHTF) and be ahead of eveyone else. Not limited to roads/mass transit, are limited to places to land but lets be honest there are basically unlimited small airports to land at even rural roads Gas- even small airports have gas storage, and very few even know about them. You could have a couple barresl stashed away just for emergencies- 100ll stores very well discretion- Go to plane, take off, land where you want to. Very few if anyone could follow you/get to you. Residences with airport access- are becoming more popular out west. I know a couple buddys with them, land, taxi to garage next to house. A lot of extremely rural places (mountains/high country out west in ID/WY/MT) can only be accessed by planes, so If you had a BOL pre-planned- you basically have built in self defence plan-isolation. Downside is that you have to pre plan stores if you believe in the EOTW/SHTF where everyone is fighting for food, but I think its way better than the mad max scenarios people plan for. Any BS flags? First, how do you even get to your 'escape' plane at the airport when the roads are clogged or you're otherwise cut-off by hoards of mutant Zeds, just like Brad Pitt was in the Jerusalem scene in WWZ? Except that was a movie, and in the real world you won't have an armed escort of 3 or 4 hot IDF soldier-chicks to get you to your plane ... Second, even small Alaskan-type 'bush planes' are not only more expensive to purchase initially than most vehicles, they're a money-pit like boats: the annual storage fees and routine maintenance are pricey, and aircraft parts are costly and not always readily available - unlike, say, sourcing parts for a Jeep Wrangler. Third, the skills required of a pilot are significantly more involved and technical, and require a much higher degree of training, than just jumping in your Mad-Max V-8 Interceptor and flooring it ... And you'd better have great take-off and landing skills in SHTF-conditions, which could range from flying in really bad, Katrina-type weather to gunfire directed at your craft if it's like the L.A. Riots on a national scale, with cities burning, massive looting, etc. Yep, that supercharged Interceptor is starting to look more attractive by the moment. 
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Posted: 6/5/2018 8:43:30 AM EDT
[#18]
I am not sure fixed wind would be the way to go for SHTF. Something like a powered hot air balloon might be a better idea. Quiet, no airstrip required, can be storaed with LP gas fuel almost indefinitely, should have pretty good lift capability for people/supplies. Something like this sounds like a start: https://newatlas.com/go/6595/
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Posted: 6/5/2018 9:48:59 AM EDT
[#19]
My BOL has a small airstrip on it, and we've gone in and out of there with both fixed and rotary wing before.
And NWIH (no way in hell) would I count on that as a primary or even secondary means of transport to there, for most of the reasons already mentioned (capacity, maintenance demands, cost, noise, etc). And in terms of using one to leave somewhere and just go "anywhere" else (vs a point A to BOL plan), those drawbacks become even more significant. Flexibility and the ability to adapt to unexpected obstacles and challenges just aren't strong suits of aircraft- but are key attributes to any sort of SHTF BO plan or equipment. |
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Posted: 6/5/2018 9:49:27 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I am not sure fixed wind would be the way to go for SHTF. Something like a powered hot air balloon might be a better idea. Quiet, no airstrip required, can be storaed with LP gas fuel almost indefinitely, should have pretty good lift capability for people/supplies. Something like this sounds like a start: https://newatlas.com/go/6595/ Slow moving, not easily maneuverable, limited room for your guns, gear, food & water, and worse, it will stick out like a round-ish 'sky target' for the first homeboy with a stolen 50-cal Barrett to take pot-shots at, either the ballon itself or those riding in the basket. 
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Posted: 6/5/2018 11:25:40 AM EDT
[#21]
I'd say from a probably perspective, a plane is incredibly low on the list of needs. Maybe if I was in Alaska I'd see things differently. In the lower 49, I see no realistic value to a plane.
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Posted: 6/5/2018 11:45:32 AM EDT
[#22]
“Most people have this fetish with vehicles”
No. Most people just actually own one. |
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Posted: 6/5/2018 12:06:33 PM EDT
[#23]
If money and time was no issue traveling by your own plane for trips would be ideal when it came to getting back to your BOL if the SHTF.
As TEOTWAWKI transportation its not as exciting. |
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Posted: 6/5/2018 12:44:29 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryIf money and time was no issue traveling by your own plane for trips would be ideal when it came to getting back to your BOL if the SHTF. Every time we go into our BOL via air, we ensure we can abort and get back to the nearby small airport if we cannot land for some reason. And that has happened, which would be a potential disaster for a real SHTF move. |
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Posted: 6/5/2018 12:47:25 PM EDT
[#25]
Learning to fly was part of my SHTF plan - but more to get home from a business trip to my family quickly if all other options were failing. I had always wanted to do it anyway so it was far from the primary reason but once I started traveling a ton for work I decided to get it done.
I have a four seat plane, and as several have pointed out you are lucky to get four in it other than two normal sized adults and two kids, and very little room for taking anything else with you. A Cherokee 6 will give you room for six plus a decent amount of bags but you aren't hauling cases of guns and ammo with you. You'd be surprised how little weight you can get into planes. Overload it or get outside the center of gravity and the flight will most likely be pretty short and bumpy, probably ending in a ball of fire. So if I had a BOL setup somewhere and only needed to take the family and no supplies, I may be able to do it if I had a six seater. IF the BOL was in range, IF weather was cooperative, and so on. Too many ifs to be at the top of my list to get out of town, but at least an option I guess. |
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Posted: 6/5/2018 12:50:01 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Unless that particular SHTF involves any sort of bad weather, or debris, or smoke, or trespasser (or dead wildlife even) blocking the airstrip, or any one of a myriad of things that can screw up an air movement. Every time we go into our BOL via air, we ensure we can abort and get back to the nearby small airport if we cannot land for some reason. And that has happened, which would be a potential disaster for a real SHTF move. Quote HistoryQuoted:
If money and time was no issue traveling by your own plane for trips would be ideal when it came to getting back to your BOL if the SHTF. Every time we go into our BOL via air, we ensure we can abort and get back to the nearby small airport if we cannot land for some reason. And that has happened, which would be a potential disaster for a real SHTF move. I am in ranch country and most of the big ones have planes. |
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Posted: 6/5/2018 1:09:47 PM EDT
[#27]
I don't think you're going to be carrying 4 adults + Fuel + Gear necessary for a long term bug out in a small easily accessible plane.
Maybe IF you own your own air strip and you have a fully stocked bug out lodge available within your max fuel range. Stopping for fuel on the way is out of the question IMO. Even then, what if your BO location is already over run and hostile, what's the back up plan? How much fuel do you have available to get to a backup location, what are the odds that the backup location is also hot? Since you don't have the weight available for cargo/supplies(relying on stocked BOL), what do you have available to survive with if you are able to land somewhere? What if the weather is bad when you need to leave? I don't think having a plane as a BOV is even remotely feasible for 99.8% of people. Yes, it solves a few issues with land based BOVs, however, it comes with a whole set of risks. |
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Posted: 6/5/2018 1:51:11 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: First, you have to get to the airport, unless you live in an air park. getting a few miles to a airport is a hell of a lot easier than trucking a few hundred down a interstate with thousands of others Next your ability to carry supplies with all 4 seats filled is limited. already addressed it, did you read? Finally, what’s to say the place you are bugging out to is any safer? addressed it, did you read? A aircraft strip with BOL could be located where you can only fly in. Of low IFR conditions? fly IMC I like what you’re selling, but not sure I’m buying. |
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Posted: 6/5/2018 1:53:17 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
“Most people have this fetish with vehicles” No. Most people just actually own one. |
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Posted: 6/5/2018 1:54:47 PM EDT
[#30]
I'm already a pilot and know the weight limits of aircraft.
I also know all about the "high security" at GA airport. I also know about how complex locks are on GA aircraft. I'm not worried about owning one for SHTF 
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Posted: 6/5/2018 1:54:54 PM EDT
[#31]
I guess the "what if" crowds are here, one reason this forum has gone to sh!t over the last few years
what if a meteor hits you while getting into a car, what if the engine explodes, what if a volcano creates a lave river you need to cross. the point was to talk about flying because I dont remember a BOPlane thread, and it seems most non pilots and VFR only pilots seem to think its a bad idea-which is amusing |
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Posted: 6/5/2018 1:58:19 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Even then, what if your BO location is already over run and hostile, what's the back up plan? How much fuel do you have available to get to a backup location, what are the odds that the backup location is also hot? Since you don't have the weight available for cargo/supplies(relying on stocked BOL), what do you have available to survive with if you are able to land somewhere? What if the weather is bad when you need to leave? I don't think having a plane as a BOV is even remotely feasible for 99.8% of people. Yes, it solves a few issues with land based BOVs, however, it comes with a whole set of risks. what if you have two flats on your BOV with one tire, what if the road is blocked, what if there are looters, what if everyone tries to do the same thing your doing, what if a bridge is out. your question about the b/u, wx, and other flying items are always a consideration for any good pilot. I guess I assumed I would be talking to people that know how to fly other than VFR |
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Posted: 6/5/2018 2:05:41 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I guess the "what if" crowds are here, one reason this forum has gone to sh!t over the last few years what if a meteor hits you while getting into a car, what if the engine explodes, what if a volcano creates a lave river you need to cross. the point was to talk about flying because I dont remember a BOPlane thread, and it seems most non pilots and VFR only pilots seem to think its a bad idea-which is amusing I listed "ifs" for others to consider but my main issue is capacity. GA planes don't carry very much. |
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Posted: 6/5/2018 2:20:30 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If money and time was no issue traveling by your own plane for trips would be ideal when it came to getting back to your BOL if the SHTF. As TEOTWAWKI transportation its not as exciting. |
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Posted: 6/5/2018 2:21:59 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryThe point was to talk about flying because I don't remember a BOPlane thread, and it seems most non pilots and VFR only pilots seem to think its a bad idea Quote HistoryThe point was to talk about flying because I don't remember a BOPlane thread, and it seems most non pilots and VFR only pilots seem to think its a bad idea  before who also think it is a generally bad idea.A aircraft strip with BOL could be located where you can only fly in. Outside of some James Bond villain island HQ, just about anywhere that can be flown into will also need other access means. Everything takes space and has weight, and if you are thinking of a BOL with aircraft-only access I suggest you talk to some of the folks in AK about what aircraft-only access really limits them to. I've got a little personal experience in that, and it isn't something I'd build into a BOL plan. Our BOL, which again is one with an airstrip that we've actually used, also has multiple vehicle and foot access routes. I cannot imagine having what we have there without those- the physics just doesn't work out. And this will vary based on your area and topography, but I will add one more comment on a BOL with an airstrip- you aren't hiding it. My area is mountainous and vegetated- so if you know the general location of our BOL, you can find it using Google Earth, Bing, or anything like that. |
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Posted: 6/5/2018 2:29:02 PM EDT
[#36]
Paramotor maybe, with some lessons
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Posted: 6/5/2018 2:30:06 PM EDT
[#37]
As someone pointed out- in a true SHTF scenario the roads will be clogged and the greatest BOV ain’t going anywhere. I’m lucky to live in my BOL so under most scenarios I don’t need to move. But if I do, I can get my wife and kids in our 182 with a fair amount of shit and be 500 miles away in 4 hrs, and while getting to the plane with roads jammed would be a issue, it’s only about 15 miles away. Not necessarily a plan, but certainly an option.
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Posted: 6/5/2018 2:33:48 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
AN-2... Can haul a load (ammo is heavy) and more than 3-4 people too... https://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/images.privatefly.com/images/aircraft/An-2-PrivateFly-AA1081.jpg Single engine fixed gear... Russian Rugged & Simple! A Mosin Nagant of the Air! 5-6K? |
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Posted: 6/5/2018 2:34:49 PM EDT
[#39]
If you are going to do it, do it right.
DC-3/C-47 |
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Posted: 6/5/2018 2:40:35 PM EDT
[#40]
I am not a pilot but always wanted my own plane. I have been flying with out Fire chief a few times and got me hooked.
While looking around years ago I stumbled accross Zenair. They make a 750 Light Sport Kit plane and the 801 which is a 4 seater which requires a private license. They are very cool.  Attached File Attached File Flying the four-seat STOL CH 801  STOL short takeoff and landing flying demonstration |
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Posted: 6/5/2018 2:46:20 PM EDT
[#41]
I plan on rolling up to my local small airport that has a bunch of small planes just sitting out there with owners that don't fly often. I can take a pick of any aircraft in the field in a SHTF scenario. Nobody is going to stop you.. No anti theft devices in these things and so long as you can get fuel your GTG. I suppose airworthiness may be an issue with an unknown aircraft, but thats a risk you have to take.
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Posted: 6/5/2018 2:49:19 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryAs someone pointed out- in a true SHTF scenario the roads will be clogged and the greatest BOV ain’t going anywhere. From BIL to BOL for me, for example, I can take hardball, gravel, or even dirt much of the way. And there just aren't enough people to clog those roads even if they tried- which folks around here wouldn't be doing. Yes, we're within gas-tank range of several larger towns/cities, but I have a hard time imaging large numbers of those people finding their way onto all the back byways to the point of them becoming an issue. |
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Posted: 6/5/2018 2:53:25 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: what if what if what if- gets really old. what if you have two flats on your BOV with one tire, what if the road is blocked, what if there are looters, what if everyone tries to do the same thing your doing, what if a bridge is out. your question about the b/u, wx, and other flying items are always a consideration for any good pilot. I guess I assumed I would be talking to people that know how to fly other than VFR You're trading a very versatile vehicle for a very use specific one and one set of deadly circumstances for another set. It's not nearly as good of an idea as you have convinced yourself it is. Suggesting this is something most or even some people should invest in, is lunacy. If you're remote enough to have your own air strip, odds are you're remote enough to not need to bug out via plane(low population density). If you're rich enough to own your own air strip in a populated area, then, yeah, do whatever. Still not a 'common man' approach to bugging out. |
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Posted: 6/5/2018 3:14:29 PM EDT
[#44]
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Posted: 6/5/2018 7:06:33 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I am not a pilot but always wanted my own plane. I have been flying with out Fire chief a few times and got me hooked. While looking around years ago I stumbled accross Zenair. They make a 750 Light Sport Kit plane and the 801 which is a 4 seater which requires a private license. They are very cool. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/424008/ch750-kit1-566741.JPG https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/424008/801_side-566742.JPG  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3LTITjrmJM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cRgQyGqtB9M ... No doubt they're cool, but in a serious SHTF/Apoc-now time, those babies just scream to be shot down by a 50-cal after about four minutes into flight.
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Posted: 6/5/2018 8:24:28 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I plan on rolling up to my local small airport that has a bunch of small planes just sitting out there with owners that don't fly often. I can take a pick of any aircraft in the field in a SHTF scenario. Nobody is going to stop you.. No anti theft devices in these things and so long as you can get fuel your GTG. I suppose airworthiness may be an issue with an unknown aircraft, but thats a risk you have to take. You think you won't get shot? |
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Posted: 6/5/2018 8:25:40 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryWrong. 
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Posted: 6/5/2018 8:26:28 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Man oh man, ... No doubt they're cool, but in a serious SHTF/Apoc-now time, those babies just scream to be shot down by a 50-cal after about four minutes into flight. 
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Posted: 6/5/2018 9:24:54 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
did you even read what I had in the OP? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: First, you have to get to the airport, unless you live in an air park. getting a few miles to a airport is a hell of a lot easier than trucking a few hundred down a interstate with thousands of others Next your ability to carry supplies with all 4 seats filled is limited. already addressed it, did you read? Finally, what’s to say the place you are bugging out to is any safer? addressed it, did you read? A aircraft strip with BOL could be located where you can only fly in. Of low IFR conditions? fly IMC I like what you’re selling, but not sure I’m buying. Perhaps you missed the part where I said I had my instrument rating. Launching a non-WAAS GPS /G equipped bird into low IFR conditions is VERY RISKY, especially if your destination airport doesn’t have an ILS (a grass strip or small GA Airport surely won’t). Further, I have scrubbed plenty of missions due to icing conditions. I have accumulated airframe icing 3 times, NOT FUN. You want a FIKI 6-place plane? Better have 6 figures to spend. My 182 has 1136 pounds of useful load. After filling tanks (enough for your 500 mile hypothetical trip) I am left with 752 pounds. Yes, that can evac me and mine. You’re point about having to preposition preps at destination is well made - can’t haul much cargo at that point. I dig your comparison to driving down a clogged highway with panicky sheeple. I love flying over traffic jams commuting home for that reason. Still, is the juice worth the squeeze? It took me north of $50k investment to get to be a well trained private pilot and aircraft owner. If you’re not one now then I submit that the same $50k can be spent in more effective ways to increase your odds of survival for most situations. In a very specific set of circumstances I can see utility to heading to my airport and flying my family out of dodge. But honestly, I am going to have a harder time gathering them all up at one spot than anything else on the day the balloon goes up. Is it fun to hash out the options? Sure. But when someone who is just about the poster child for the kind of evac you’re proposing says it isn’t a great choice I would encourage you to be open minded about the critique. |
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Posted: 6/6/2018 8:18:37 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
* * * * * * Sir, I absolutely did read your OP. Perhaps you missed the part where I said I had my instrument rating. Launching a non-WAAS GPS /G equipped bird into low IFR conditions is VERY RISKY, especially if your destination airport doesn’t have an ILS (a grass strip or small GA Airport surely won’t). Further, I have scrubbed plenty of missions due to icing conditions. I have accumulated airframe icing 3 times, NOT FUN. You want a FIKI 6-place plane? Better have 6 figures to spend. * * * * * * Still, is the juice worth the squeeze? It took me north of $50k investment to get to be a well trained private pilot and aircraft owner. If you’re not one now then I submit that the same $50k can be spent in more effective ways to increase your odds of survival for most situations. In a very specific set of circumstances I can see utility to heading to my airport and flying my family out of dodge. But honestly, I am going to have a harder time gathering them all up at one spot than anything else on the day the balloon goes up. Is it fun to hash out the options? Sure. But when someone who is just about the poster child for the kind of evac you’re proposing says it isn’t a great choice I would encourage you to be open minded about the critique. |
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