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Posted: 3/7/2008 9:44:09 AM EDT
[#1]
No doubt about that! At this point I'm glad that I've already acquired most of the firearms that I need or think I really want (except for the Barrett M82). So now it's just about stocking up on ammo for them. I spent all last winter reloading M118 and LC Match .308 brass on my single-stage press. It was monotonous, but it feels good to have an okay stash of it (1K+). I really wouldn't want to take-on another caliber at this point from a time and money standpoint. Good thing I have no plans to get the .50cal anytime soon... |
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Posted: 3/7/2008 10:59:15 AM EDT
[#2]
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Posted: 3/7/2008 11:27:08 AM EDT
[#3]
 But to answer the original question, I'd pick the poodle shooter. I shoot High Power competition, so I'm really comfortable with the AR's irons. But I prefer the M1A. |
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Posted: 3/7/2008 12:12:25 PM EDT
[#4]
Ya like that? I figured the wife's feminine dining room motif could only look better with a bit of manliness in there... [oh, oh, oh <-- Tim Allen voice]
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Posted: 3/7/2008 4:23:50 PM EDT
[#5]
The question you pose is really a budgetary question, not a what's the most affective weapon question. If you have limited funds, an SKS or AK variant is certainly the way to go. If you have more disposable income, then treat yourself to an AR-15 of some sort!
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Posted: 3/7/2008 4:50:11 PM EDT
[#6]
lol. so you're saying that the m1a is always the center piece of the dining room table. that rocks. 
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Posted: 3/8/2008 6:14:44 PM EDT
[#7]
Yes I really hate you for that!! That has been my dream rifle since I was 12 and saw my first S.O.F magazine and they had an article on the M-14 that was 17 years ago and I still want that rifle! You don't think the wife would miss the $2K of the $6K I get when I get out of the Dallas police academy do you?  or  |
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Posted: 3/8/2008 6:46:56 PM EDT
[#8]
I will be laying down the mula for an M1A sometime this spring. I don't care what anyone says, there is something about that rifle that turns me on.
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Posted: 3/8/2008 7:05:57 PM EDT
[#9]
I own an ak 47 , 3 Ar15s and an M1A and the one that I would go to in a survival (shtf ) situation would be my AR m4 lightweight /can carry alot of ammo and never had a problem with reliabilty. I love my M1A but I will still go with the AR15
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Posted: 3/9/2008 2:42:35 PM EDT
[#10]
Right now I'm just looking for something that can get me by until I can save up for the rifle I want. A man feel under gunned with a pistol and shotgun!
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Posted: 3/9/2008 2:47:58 PM EDT
[#11]
Quoted for quality. Personal choice would be the AK because of the trigger time I have with the AK platform VS. AR platform and I really like the 7.62x39 vs .556 for barriers. (I am arawre either can be chamberd in these rounds) Both would be choice over a handgun and left behind for a FAL |
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Posted: 3/9/2008 4:05:48 PM EDT
[#12]
Its hard to beat an AK for a cheap "just to get me by until" rifle. 
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Posted: 3/9/2008 4:12:58 PM EDT
[#13]
I am gonna vote for a 10/22 with a folding stock and a 3-9 power optic with BUIS.
You are talking survival, not a firefight with a heavily armed mob. You can carry 1000+ rounds on you with ease. This accurate platform is dependable and runs without extensive cleaning for a long period of time. You can hunt easily and defend yourself if needed at decent ranges. My second vote would go for a GSG-5 with a RDS. The only reason that I did not vote it #1 is that its really not been proven to match the Ruger's reliability yet. I own both (GSG and 10/22), as well as 4 ARs and a Yugo AK. I'd pick the Ruger if I were stranded in some remote wilderness and survival was important. |
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Posted: 3/9/2008 5:37:43 PM EDT
[#14]
A punch and a slap at the same time! What many people need to understand is that most new 1911s are made to a lot tighter tolerances than mil specs. Same with many ARs. This causes many of the problems seen today. Mil spec AR for the win IMHO. |
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Posted: 3/10/2008 4:47:38 AM EDT
[#15]
The M1A would have it's place...overwatch
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Posted: 3/12/2008 5:42:51 AM EDT
[#16]
The best weapon lad, is a focused mind, a blade, the fire arm you are best with, and a stout. If you can reach out and touch your enemy with a one shot kill at distance 300m or better with an AR15 then by all means go with it. If you can do the same with an AK and you are comfortable with it stick with it. However in a survival scenario you had better not get into apitched gun battle. Unless you out number your enemy. that being said the ruggedness of the AK is made irrellevant. To ease your mind on the matter of AR15s ruggedness I've never had a problem with mine at work as long as I keep it clean, that is with bad guys, real and opfor, after me. Army ammo sucks but, its grat if you remember to never stop pulling the trigger untill you know your target is down.
         
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Posted: 3/12/2008 5:46:05 AM EDT
[#17]
   
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Posted: 3/15/2008 9:15:01 PM EDT
[#19]
Probably the AR since if shtf you will be able to pick up an ak off the battlefield. But seriously, in a survival situatuion if shtf I would pick a 30-06 since I could kill anything in North America with it and if shtf then the ammo for current military calibers will become scarce as all production would be diverted for military use.
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Posted: 3/16/2008 5:29:10 AM EDT
[#20]
My eyes are pretty good, but there is no way I'd see an enemy at 300 yards unless he had zero clue I was there, and was minding his own business. If that was the case, I'm not sure why I'd be shooting him.
If I look three hundred yards out back, unless the person was standing upright and meandering along, there is no way I could make it out. I'll be taking my AK, and good pair of binoculars. |
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Posted: 3/16/2008 6:53:36 AM EDT
[#21]
AKs don't do that well at Appleseed events. If people are coming to try to hurt me, I'd certainly rather engage them outside their effective fighting range. And as Batman says, if it isn't capable of that sort of precision, that's just one less tool you have in your box. And a first-quality AR with first-quality parts, kept lubed, is 100% reliable. John |
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Posted: 3/16/2008 7:22:40 AM EDT
[#22]
ding ding the fucking winner is................. to many ppl think its gonna be hey theres a bad guy "bang" woot, miller time..... at 100m if the guy is like any other arfcomer in ( (insert camo of choice) ) you wont see him unless movement gives him away or he is tanding there with blaze organe jerking off. really if your AO has places that are wide open. then by all means have a good 30 cal rifle. But even then your not gaurnteed you'll see the guy.... Then if you do shoot, and he has buddies... can you make that 2nd shot while under fire...with your wife screaming etc etc( ill skip the shot family dog etc) or a "team: member down calling for help... " oh but protus...im uber sniper navy seal guy,,STFU before i smite you with my molle stick...." right and im john freakin holmes.....  in reality guys shtf distnaces will be 200 max and across teh room close.....( unless its red dawn,zombies, china invades but for topic sake plain jane..breakdown....) train with the carbine you have be it AR or AK... work on your observation skills.....and BOL defense's...fancy rifle wont do you no good if joe redneck can low crawl to 50 yrds of your front door and plant a 54r roundon ya from his mosseeen nAgaint, he got fer 45$ 10 yrs back.....!!!!!!!!! YMMV,,just putting some reality into the pricey rifle cream fest..... |
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Posted: 3/16/2008 11:45:15 AM EDT
[#23]
x eleventy billion 
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Posted: 3/16/2008 11:56:20 AM EDT
[#24]
In a way I disagree. If we're talking a big 'SHTF' scenario and you have enough supplies to sustain yourself and your household, the local gangs/thugs/militias are going to figure it out. People won't be thinking straight, they might open fire at your house at a distance or something. That's when precision at a distance could come in handy. Of course, the best plan would include being invisible to these sort of folks. |
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Posted: 3/16/2008 11:57:00 AM EDT
[#25]
Get both
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Posted: 3/16/2008 12:14:23 PM EDT
[#26]
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Posted: 3/16/2008 1:29:02 PM EDT
[#27]
Your right most people can see even shoot out at 300 yard hell most have a problem shooting a deer at 100 yards without a scope! I know I'm able to shoot out to 500 yard with a M-16A4 thanks to my beloved Marine Corps! What I'm looking for is something that I can bu ammo for train with but still will take down people at the range I need it to! I know at 500 yards the 5.56 is not a round that will take down a human for good hell it will just take down a 60lbs dog at that range.
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Posted: 3/16/2008 1:31:55 PM EDT
[#28]
Take a 22lr in battle ans if you live tell me how it works out for you!! 22lr is a great survival rifle to take small game but when it comes to taking a human its not a good round sure humans have been taken with it but how many rounds and at what range. |
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Posted: 3/17/2008 7:01:11 AM EDT
[#29]
Yes indeed. Different tools for different jobs. I certainly wouldn't be trying to use my M1A for CQB duties around the neighborhood. That's what my AR is for. But I also wouldn't be trying to use my iron-sighted AR for long range overwatch duties either. That's why I have both. If someone is wanting a tool more to be used for close-range work, but in a larger caliber than .223, then I'd heartily recommend a JLD PTR-91. Hard to beat the carbine 91 for the "short and powerful" role. |
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Posted: 3/17/2008 7:24:39 AM EDT
[#30]
i think damnguy understands your point, that's why he differentiated when he'd use each rifle. by SHTF, i'm assuming he means he'd have to shoot a person, thus opting for the AR or the AK. |
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Posted: 3/18/2008 5:19:35 AM EDT
[#31]
But in a SHTF scenario, how the heck (without optics) are you going to properly make out a target at 300 yards? If people know a technique I'm not aware of, please let me know. But as it stands, unless the person is just walking about, there is no way in hell I'd be able to make a prepared target, let alone know if he's armed. And Protus, that's a really good point on observation skills. That's more important thant shooting ability when it really comes down to avoiding trouble. |
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Posted: 3/18/2008 6:26:06 AM EDT
[#32]
Exactly the point. That's why I have several different tools in order to fill several different roles. The AR is much more likely to be used in a SHTF scenario than my scoped M1A is. BUT... in the [unlikely] event that I need to sit up on a hill (or building) and identify and possibly engage targets at several hundred yards or more, that .308 loaded with match ammo and scoped with a 10X scope would be vastly superior to my iron-sighted AR. As the tired old saying goes: I'd rather have it and not need it than need it and not have it. That's what preparedness is all about. And once someone has acquired a good close-range defensive rifle (AR, AK, 91, etc), than I definitely think it's a good idea to get a scoped bolt rifle or semi-auto for the possibility of longer-range engagements. |
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Posted: 3/18/2008 6:29:32 AM EDT
[#33]
I think I accidently got into the a side discussion. The initial point of the thread was AK vs AR, someone mentioned that they could shoot targets at 300 yard with an AR, my point is, I couldn't even ID my target from that distance. |
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Posted: 3/18/2008 8:13:37 AM EDT
[#34]
i could shot at targets past 500 with my 308 and wellpast that with the 300's....but why? and could i( YOU)do it,,under stress, while under fire,shitty weather,dusk,dawn..cold,,wet,,hot,,..etcetctec and still get the same results??? like the vegas saying... what happens at the bench stays at the bench ......when it comes to shtf shooting |
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Posted: 3/18/2008 12:24:25 PM EDT
[#35]
Maybe we got off track here protus. I agree with your point that SHTF ain't the same as shooting from the bench. In fact, beyond sighting-in and occasional marksmanship practice, I really could care less about bench rest shooting. Precisely because it applies to SO little to real-world defensive (and offensive) use of firearms. But depending upon one's intended purpose, a scoped long-range battle rifle DOES have a place in SHTF preps. It's just not as a 1st tier, preferred go-to battle rifle. Mine is for specialized roles. Whereas the iron-sighted (tritium front and rear) 20" A2 is for a much broader range of SHTF roles and would likely be the one I'd grab in 95% of the cases. To the OP: As far as the original question "what's the 'better' survival battle rifle" goes, the answer [as has been mentioned many times in this thread] is simply the one you have, that you can shoot well, that you have ammo for. I don't care if it's .223, .308, 7.62X39, or freakin' .30-30. As long as you like it, trust it, and know how to use it... what else matters? I've gone through the same conundrum several times depending on the intended role of the firearm. I happened to chose the AR, M1A, Winchster Defender, and 1911 platforms as my main defensive firearms platforms. If you chose the FAL, AK, Mossberg, and Glock platforms as yours, you'll be no better or worse off. I'd just question your taste in aesthetics is all...
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Posted: 3/19/2008 3:50:54 AM EDT
[#36]
Please again I ask, where is this coming from that an ar is more accurate? With whom doing the shooting? More accurate than what? Is this all AR's or only certain types, or calibers? |
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Posted: 3/19/2008 4:57:14 AM EDT
[#37]
 I have seen 3 AKs go down hard and 2 that would not feed ammo. I have had a bolt in my AR freeze up because I went from shooting 600 rounds of wolf to 3 rounds of brass. Case got stuck. I was shooting both Laquer and Polymer Wolf. I still like my AR's I have more combat time with them. |
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Posted: 3/19/2008 9:48:34 PM EDT
[#38]
Every time I read the warn out ar15/ak47 SHTF Rifle argument on here I think about this...
Lt. Colonel Hal Moore: I think you oughta get yourself an M-16. Sergeant Major Basil Plumley: Sir, if the time comes I need one, there'll be plenty lying on the ground. Movie: We Were Soldiers take it or leave it... |
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Posted: 3/19/2008 10:13:43 PM EDT
[#39]
Both good rifles, each has there own area of expertise, I will take the AR15 on Accuracy.
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Posted: 3/20/2008 4:36:52 AM EDT
[#40]
But remember that was in reference to the Sargent Major's use of his 1911 .45. |
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Posted: 3/21/2008 7:28:17 AM EDT
[#41]
I can also think of plenty of times when I've shown up with my cheapo WASR-10 and nailed the target all day long while people around me with AR's had jam after jam. That doesn't discount the AR platform. They may have just been poorly maintained/el cheapo AR's. Yeah the AR platform has better accuracy but my AK will work perfectly fine at the distances I will need it to. I NEVER expect a beyond 100 yard shot even though my rifle is decently capable of 200 yard shots if I need them. My personal preference is for the AK becasue.....I like it. I like the harder hitting round. I like the rugged reliability. Hell, I just like em. And it's cheaper to own, maintain, and feed with ammo. As far as ammo availability, I have a 1000 rounds ready at all times. If I need to resupply that.....wow....I'll be lucky as hell to survive. I'm not nearly trained well enough to think that I could survive THAT many engagements. People who think they need 1000's upon 1000's of rounds really haven't done any force on force training. Bascially, you're dead after any more than 1 gun fight. Yeah yeah, I know, gunsite and all the others 'teach' you how to survive blah blah blah. Hole up and you have a chance. If you start trying to clear towns or buildings you are screwed. There's a reason you need such a force imbalance to dislodge a defender in those environments. My AK is for when someone tries to F*** with my chosen hiding location and to POSSIBLY hunt for medium sized game if it ever comes to that. The 22 handles the rest. |
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Posted: 3/21/2008 7:58:03 AM EDT
[#42]
+1 I put almost 700 rounds through my AR-15 w/Ciener kit and BDM mags this past weekend without a single malfunction. (After about 500 rounds, all the gunk from the .22LR needs to be cleaned out. Then back to shooting!) |
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Posted: 3/21/2008 10:10:40 AM EDT
[#43]
Dlow,
I was there in the Ia Drang in Nov '65... 1 in 5 firefights I had jams or seperated cases. NOT FUN.... True that the ammo & AR's may be better today, but for under 200 yds. for knockdown & reliability I'll take an AK. (or an SKS!). I shoot a DPMS-CMP that is SCARY accurate, but punching holes in paper isn't where it is in SHTF... Regarding long range & iron sights- I just returned from a four day 8-9-1000 yd. match in Phoenix where there were a suprising number of shots in a 20" ten ring (8" X) with 20- 35 mph winds! But, like Protus- I would tend to avoid stiring up a conflict at that range even though I am equipped & have the ability to do so- there may be special situations however! |
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Posted: 3/21/2008 11:58:39 PM EDT
[#44]
While I have my doubts of proper target ID at 300 yards, I will go as far as to say it's impossible to grab proper target ID at 1000 yards. |
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Posted: 4/17/2008 9:24:15 PM EDT
[#45]
meh this works ok  But i still got another FAL
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Posted: 4/17/2008 10:09:32 PM EDT
[#46]
For the MF'N WIN!!
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Posted: 4/18/2008 2:48:58 AM EDT
[#47]
a .308 ak of course
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Posted: 4/18/2008 4:16:55 AM EDT
[#48]
I am going to plagiarize a LOT of experts without due credit so please forgive me....
I believe the "BEST" SHTF rifle will probably be the one you already own, know how to shoot, know where the bullet will impact at 25M to 350M, know how to carry, clean and repair. The best ammunition will be a 100rounds of whatever you have already put 900rounds down range. Regardless of what model or caliber you decide to procure it is what YOU do with YOUR rifle after the purchase that determines how effective it will be. Didn't help much? OK - Get an AR, AK & FAL (all three)
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