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Posted: 1/13/2023 1:17:27 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You're showing a Mercedes car and asking why it's more expensive than a Ford. It's 5 grand because it has the word HONDA on it. They make good generators, but they're spendy. Honda are known for reliabilty, long life on the engines, and RF quiet inverters. If you're a contractor who puts a ton of hours on a generator running it every day on worksites, then Honda may be a good choice for you. If you're a homeowner looking for an economical option for a few hours a year of emergency backup power, might be better to look at lower cost brands. 7000 watts is getting into serious territory as far as plugs, wire gauges, breakers and the like. This is not a trivial amount of electrical power, that's almost 60 amps at 120v. Almost certainly would have to split that up between multiple plugs and cordsets, not common to find a plug for larger than 50 amps, along with the serious wire gauge. Really need to look at your actual needs and usage and see if you really need that much wattage. 7000 watt Champion open-frame inverter is $1249 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B083V8VNGL?tag=arfcom00-20 Okay but the open-frame generator is going to have the same issues as Contestant #1. IT's going to burn fuel like my 1997 Ford F150. Or way worse. HOWEVER...I hear you about the word "Honda" Still...$1200 to $5000 is a BIG jump, even for the word "Honda" so I don't think that's all of it, is it? I'm not actually considering my personal needs with this question. That's not what this thread is about, though I am addressing that in some posts. This is about, "why is this worth it, or not worth it?" And is there a reasonable equivalent? So other people can learn to look at generators with a more educated, critical eye. I'm not sure I can adequately determine, but guessing fuel cost is still significantly less with the inverter, but even with that..who would burn through this much? Why would anyone in a "home emergency" situation, need a generator like this? |
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Posted: 1/13/2023 1:20:47 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I already told you to buy a $100 5000+ watt generator off of FB Marketplace and throw an Amazon carb at it, along with a new plug and air filter, and an oil change, and play with it to see what works. I could drop the money on an EU7000iS tomorrow and be no better off than my junky open frame of the above description. Perfect is the enemy of good. Every post in this thread has been valuable, including yours. Because for folks who have those abilities, that is excellent advice. However.... 1-This thread is not about what anybody has "told me to buy." This thread is content to help people not be fooled by marketing. 2-Why would you assume I have the ability to install a new carb in anything? 3- What part of "dumb it down" would cause you to believe I know how to throw an Amazon carb at it, along with a new plug and air filter, and an oil change, and play with it to see what works. I might know that. But what if I don't? Would you really say that to your grandma (who lives half way across the country) if she asked questions about generators? |
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Posted: 1/13/2023 1:57:42 AM EDT
[#3]
I didn't read the whole thread, but what exactly do you need and want to power with the genny, and how much fuel can you or will you realistically store?
I personally like my Champion generators as a great value. I have almost 1000 hours on my big conventional champion, still going strong. My smaller inverter champion runs like, well, a champ. Both are dual fuel. Good US support, still have the parts they sent me for free! Clean and dirty power refer to the voltage and frequency the generator is giving. A good generator (and all inverter generators) will have good power that matches utility power. The best have a pure sine wave output, but I've never had issues with modified sine wave. It isn't near as big an issue these days like it used to be. I do have a Briggs generator that puts out dirty power, the fridge compressor makes sad noises using it. I have it in the backup/loaner stack. IMHO, fuel injection is good for high altitude and easier cold starting (like below zero cold starting). Neither applies to you. Propane dual fuel is more important if you ask me. Make sure you run the carb dry of fuel when you are done, and I've never had an issue. Super cold weather and a squirt or two of starting fluid has it running. Electric start is mandatory over 3500 watts. Keep the battery on a maintainer for best results, and I assume you have a lithium jump pack around anyway? |
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Posted: 1/13/2023 2:00:20 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 1-This thread is not about what anybody has "told me to buy." This thread is content to help people not be fooled by marketing. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I already told you to buy a $100 5000+ watt generator off of FB Marketplace and throw an Amazon carb at it, along with a new plug and air filter, and an oil change, and play with it to see what works. I could drop the money on an EU7000iS tomorrow and be no better off than my junky open frame of the above description. Perfect is the enemy of good. 1-This thread is not about what anybody has "told me to buy." This thread is content to help people not be fooled by marketing. Marketing is about short-circuiting rational analysis of needs/requirements. For generators, marketing likely revolves around "this is so simple even an idiot can use it." I'm suggesting you actually test, for minimal outlay, what your requirements are, and what features actually provide value. You mentioned wheels. My generator has none, and I use a tractor or a hand truck to move it around. I'd strongly consider wheels a valuable feature for a future generator, or prioritize retrofitting them to my existing generator except for the following: 1. Power failure events are infrequent enough that I don't need the generator much. 1.a. The in-progress solar install provides battery storage sufficient to carry through short outages, so I've used that vs. the generator recently. 2. Any future generator will be a fixed installation, and won't need to be moved. I've procured a propane 10kW generator and intend to supplement that with MEP-1040a or MEP-803a units (for reasons I admit are retarded but can be summarized as "because I can") Using the crappy open frame generator allowed me to identify what my critical loads were and what features I actually needed. As a contrast, my inlaws had a power failure which threatened to flood their basement, which we rectified with the same crappy generator. Their "lessons learned" resulted in spending probably $25k on a Generac natural gas generator that they don't have to think about. Their power goes out for 15 seconds and then the lights come back on. They don't have to worry about the sump pump failing. They wouldn't have arrived at that information without having had the power fail and observing the labor involved in deploying a portable generator. Obviously it took a combination of events that would be difficult to simulate in a controlled manner, but I still suggest picking a weekend to run a power outage drill, even if it involves extension cords through windows. 2-Why would you assume I have the ability to install a new carb in anything? Success is equal parts desire, motivation and tenacity. 3- What part of "dumb it down" would cause you to believe I know how to throw an Amazon carb at it, along with a new plug and air filter, and an oil change, and play with it to see what works. I might know that. But what if I don't? If you can't figure out the fuel line, throttle linkage and two nuts to effect the replacement, then the whole concept of DIY isn't available to you and you should probably learn to enjoy the feeling of spending money to hire help. (My inlaws are continually delighted at the sense of relief that their system provides. I'd say they got a huge amount of value for their money.) I'm not trying to be insulting or condescending, and I've outlined a course of education for which the tuition is probably a total of 5 hours of time and no more than $175.00. And when you're done, you may be able to recoup the entirety of your monetary outlay. This stuff isn't rocket science. You can do it. You'll have your own "lessons learned" or after action report you can add to the thread, which will likely have different conclusions and your own set of priorities. I'm guessing you'll end up somewhere in between the other guy with five generators and my inlaws, but hopefully with a solution that meets your actual needs and in line with your budget. |
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Posted: 1/13/2023 2:06:27 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Okay but the open-frame generator is going to have the same issues as Contestant #1. IT's going to burn fuel like my 1997 Ford F150. Or way worse. HOWEVER...I hear you about the word "Honda" Still...$1200 to $5000 is a BIG jump, even for the word "Honda" so I don't think that's all of it, is it? I'm not actually considering my personal needs with this question. That's not what this thread is about, though I am addressing that in some posts. This is about, "why is this worth it, or not worth it?" And is there a reasonable equivalent? So other people can learn to look at generators with a more educated, critical eye. I'm not sure I can adequately determine, but guessing fuel cost is still significantly less with the inverter, but even with that..who would burn through this much? Why would anyone in a "home emergency" situation, need a generator like this? For fuel usage, when comparing apples to apples, fuel usage will be statistically the same between brands A and B. The engines are all close enough in efficiency that it gets down to taking x amount of fuel to make y watts |
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Posted: 1/13/2023 3:12:09 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: For fuel usage, when comparing apples to apples, fuel usage will be statistically the same between brands A and B. The engines are all close enough in efficiency that it gets down to taking x amount of fuel to make y watts Also keep in mind that fuel usage with an inverter is hugely dependent on actual load. If you're actually drawing a consistent 600 watts, with infrequent bursts of 5000 watts for a pump or something like that, you'll use a lot less fuel than if you are running at a constant 5000 watts. If you are actually running at a constant 5000 watts, you could get a slight increase in efficiency by going to a suitably sized traditional (non-inverter) generator. But most don't have constant loads that high. As I mentioned before, we've powered a whole lot over the years with a 3500 watt generator. Having a bunch of excess capacity will increase your fuel usage. I think you're into analysis paralysis at this point, and your analysis will never be complete because you lack critical information and experience. Putting an ammeter on your power panel and looking at your homes actual usage would be a useful exercise I think. Try different appliances to see what they use, set up some configurations of lights/appliances that would be something you would need to operate and see what your actual needs are. Once you figure out how much power you actually need, then you can zero in on how to cover those needs. |
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Posted: 1/13/2023 11:58:32 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Okay but the open-frame generator is going to have the same issues as Contestant #1. IT's going to burn fuel like my 1997 Ford F150. Or way worse. Hah, that gets back to what I said... buying a conventional generator for $1,000 less leaves you $1,000 to buy more fuel. It all depends on how much you're going to use the thing... if you're going to use it at least 100 hours per year, I'd absolutely prioritize efficiency. If it's closer to 10 or 15 hours per year... efficiency would be a lot lower on the priority list. You probably mentioned how much you'll use it, and I forgot in all the banter that's swirling around in this thread. This thread seems... a bit overly-contentious from a few people in a few spots, IDK. Really, YOU know your personal circumstances better than us. Do you prefer savings now or later? Do you have preference or aversion to storing fuel? Where's your trade-off in the balance between time and money, or convenience and money? And, something to consider... if you're planning on using this for the next 10 years or so, imagine what your circumstances are likely to be when you're 10 years older, and factor that into what you want to buy. Maybe 10 years from now, you just don't picture yourself lugging around a 9kW portable generator, still doing maintenance on the thing, etc.. Ultimately, your decision tree looks more or less like this: 1. How much power do you need? 2. Do you want portable or fixed installation? (which determines "Do you want gasoline or natural gas/propane?") 3. If gasoline, do you prefer upfront cost/delayed savings (inverter) or upfront savings/delayed cost (conventional)? That should get you 95% of the way to deciding which you want/need. After that, it's just finding which model has the features you want (such as having a correctly-sized 240V outlet, etc.) Did you ever figure out what you want to do for a transfer panel? If I recall, you were worried about cutting a hole in the wall, which I think you could very likely work around. Let me tell you from experience... "start generator, attach cord, flip the transfer switch" is sooooo much easier than "start generator, find extension cords, run cords, etc.". And while that wouldn't be so big of a deal on a lazy Sunday afternoon... usually when you need the generator, you've also got 30 other things that need attending to ASAP as well. At least I always did. 
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Posted: 1/13/2023 4:07:03 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Still...$1200 to $5000 is a BIG jump, even for the word "Honda" so I don't think that's all of it, is it? Quote HistoryQuoted: Still...$1200 to $5000 is a BIG jump, even for the word "Honda" so I don't think that's all of it, is it? You also have to consider parts availability and support, country of manufacture, etc. I'm not sure about that particular model but most Honda generators are made in Japan and USA with some production starting in China in recent years. Honda also maintains a network of stocking dealerships that have mechanics and parts. Most of the cheaper generators won't. Champion supposedly offers decent parts support for their generators, but I bet it doesn't even come close to Honda's. Maintaining all that costs money, part of that "cost of doing business" get wrapped into the sale price. Oh, and that 9,000 watt inverter from HD? I had no idea they were making them that big now! Quoted: Hah, that gets back to what I said... buying a conventional generator for $1,000 less leaves you $1,000 to buy more fuel. It all depends on how much you're going to use the thing... if you're going to use it at least 100 hours per year, I'd absolutely prioritize efficiency. If it's closer to 10 or 15 hours per year... efficiency would be a lot lower on the priority list. I did a cost comparison back on page 1 or 2. It takes a LOT of runtime to make an inverter generator pay for itself. The enclosed, super quiet inverters had some appeal due to the quiet factor but the open frame models take some of that appeal out. They're probably still better than a traditional open-frame, but not anything like the small enclosed inverters. |
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Posted: 1/13/2023 8:53:19 PM EDT
[#9]
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Posted: 1/13/2023 9:05:07 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm suggesting you actually test, for minimal outlay, what your requirements are, and what features actually provide value. This. Lota of folks simply think "Bigger is better, right? Get something for the maximum power I'd need?" The bigger the generator, the more fuel it'll use, even at low load/idle. Figure out what your needs are (maximum draw, including inrush current for things with motors, that tend to see anywhere from a 50% to 400% spike when starting up vs running), and what your steady state requirements are. Do you want easy? Would you prefer a little more effort for better fuel efficiency? Eg 1) folks who get whole house generators, want easy. They don't want to drag out a generator, start it up, then hook it up to whatever it needs to be hooked up to. They don't want to worry about regular maintenance and all that type of stuff. They want to be able to use anything they normally use, just as they would while the grid is still operational. Are you willing to monitor your draw, and make considerations for things like, "Have to make sure not to run this AND this simultaneously. As long as I turn THIS off before running that, I'm good"? I think I mentioned, rather than get a '9kw surge/7kW steady' generator, I'd rather get 2x 4.5kW generators, unless my steady state requirements were 4-5+kW. Eg. If you're mostly just running a refrigerator, additional freezer, some lights and the TV, a 4.5kW generator will be more fuel efficient than a 7kW or 9kW generator. If you have some things that will spike the draw beyond the 4.5kW generators capacity, fire up the 2nd gennie. If one generator goes down for some reason, you can still operate the essentials off the other one. The only way to know what you need, is calculate everything you NEED to power, plus the things you'd like to power, then decide what you need the ability to power concurrently. This will help you make a much better choice to fit your needs than just, "This one is bigger/more expensive. This one is smaller/cheaper". |
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Posted: 1/13/2023 9:26:03 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: For fuel usage, when comparing apples to apples, fuel usage will be statistically the same between brands A and B. The engines are all close enough in efficiency that it gets down to taking x amount of fuel to make y watts This is good information to have, and furthers my observation that these different brands are just using verbiage to try to set their machine apart from the others, but they're all pretty much the same overall. |
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Posted: 1/13/2023 9:28:42 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Also keep in mind that fuel usage with an inverter is hugely dependent on actual load. If you're actually drawing a consistent 600 watts, with infrequent bursts of 5000 watts for a pump or something like that, you'll use a lot less fuel than if you are running at a constant 5000 watts. If you are actually running at a constant 5000 watts, you could get a slight increase in efficiency by going to a suitably sized traditional (non-inverter) generator. But most don't have constant loads that high. As I mentioned before, we've powered a whole lot over the years with a 3500 watt generator. Having a bunch of excess capacity will increase your fuel usage. I think you're into analysis paralysis at this point, and your analysis will never be complete because you lack critical information and experience. Putting an ammeter on your power panel and looking at your homes actual usage would be a useful exercise I think. Try different appliances to see what they use, set up some configurations of lights/appliances that would be something you would need to operate and see what your actual needs are. Once you figure out how much power you actually need, then you can zero in on how to cover those needs. Nope, I'm asking questions to see if more useful information will come out for this "dumb it down" thread. I think I may have maxed it out, because some very useful info has come out on this page, which tells the tale. Most of these are just alike as far as the machine and efficiency goes, with the split being inverter vs traditional, and the only significant differences within those categories are bells and whistles. |
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Posted: 1/13/2023 9:29:55 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Hah, that gets back to what I said... buying a conventional generator for $1,000 less leaves you $1,000 to buy more fuel. It all depends on how much you're going to use the thing... if you're going to use it at least 100 hours per year, I'd absolutely prioritize efficiency. If it's closer to 10 or 15 hours per year... efficiency would be a lot lower on the priority list. You probably mentioned how much you'll use it, and I forgot in all the banter that's swirling around in this thread. This thread seems... a bit overly-contentious from a few people in a few spots, IDK. Really, YOU know your personal circumstances better than us. Do you prefer savings now or later? Do you have preference or aversion to storing fuel? Where's your trade-off in the balance between time and money, or convenience and money? And, something to consider... if you're planning on using this for the next 10 years or so, imagine what your circumstances are likely to be when you're 10 years older, and factor that into what you want to buy. Maybe 10 years from now, you just don't picture yourself lugging around a 9kW portable generator, still doing maintenance on the thing, etc.. Ultimately, your decision tree looks more or less like this: 1. How much power do you need? 2. Do you want portable or fixed installation? (which determines "Do you want gasoline or natural gas/propane?") 3. If gasoline, do you prefer upfront cost/delayed savings (inverter) or upfront savings/delayed cost (conventional)? That should get you 95% of the way to deciding which you want/need. After that, it's just finding which model has the features you want (such as having a correctly-sized 240V outlet, etc.) Did you ever figure out what you want to do for a transfer panel? If I recall, you were worried about cutting a hole in the wall, which I think you could very likely work around. Let me tell you from experience... "start generator, attach cord, flip the transfer switch" is sooooo much easier than "start generator, find extension cords, run cords, etc.". And while that wouldn't be so big of a deal on a lazy Sunday afternoon... usually when you need the generator, you've also got 30 other things that need attending to ASAP as well. At least I always did. This is such a good post. With regard to my own....I posted my panel, and got some responses, but unless I missed an answer, I don't think there was a concensus on what I could or could not do with my external whole-house shut off breaker. |
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Posted: 1/13/2023 9:35:05 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Mine So looking at your generator in the context of this thread, I would guess: 1-Noise is not an issue for you, cuz even though it's an inverter, you chose open frame. 2-Pull-start is not an issue for you (that appears to not have electric start) 3-How is the heft with the wheels on it? Would your teenage girl or small wife (or grandma) cuss a lot while moving it out of its hidey hole in the garage? Your thread gives details about what you want to power, so I won't repeat that here. Is my thinking about your thoughts/generator correct? |
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Posted: 1/13/2023 9:56:54 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I didn't read the whole thread, but what exactly do you need and want to power with the genny, and how much fuel can you or will you realistically store? Quote HistoryQuoted: I didn't read the whole thread, but what exactly do you need and want to power with the genny, and how much fuel can you or will you realistically store? I have to figure that out, and I will. But I've been milking for good posts like yours here, and others on this page, hoping to get a sort of "Frequently Asked Questions" situation where the answers are here in this "dumb it down" thread. You put the question about fuel very well, and I think all people should not overestimate what they WILL actually do. How much fuel CAN I store? Not that much really because I don't have space for it. BUT...I can probably store more than I actually WILL. However....I could fill up a few cans at the beginning of winter and then run through those for my truck fuel when the spring season starts. Maybe that's a good idea to consider. Stabilizer in all of it, etc etc. How much fuel WILL I store? I know myself by now, and I won't properly rotate through it, so I should be realistic about that. (Maintenance is a thing that gets bumped continually when my hair is on fire for whatever reason, and that is unlikely to change this year anyway. (I'm searching for more Zen, downsizing everything I own, etc, to make room for the important things, but I'm not there yet.) **So on the one hand, an inverter might require less fuel to be stored. And less fuel to be rotated in and out. AND...if fuel is hard to get at some point (cuz it's not available or it's impossible to get to it) I would be glad for a more fuel-efficient machine. I personally like my Champion generators as a great value. I have almost 1000 hours on my big conventional champion, still going strong. My smaller inverter champion runs like, well, a champ. Both are dual fuel. Good US support, still have the parts they sent me for free! Clean and dirty power refer to the voltage and frequency the generator is giving. A good generator (and all inverter generators) will have good power that matches utility power. The best have a pure sine wave output, but I've never had issues with modified sine wave. It isn't near as big an issue these days like it used to be. I do have a Briggs generator that puts out dirty power, the fridge compressor makes sad noises using it. I have it in the backup/loaner stack. ..... I remember a story about that dirty power generator from some earlier thread. That's what made me aware that there even was such a thing. So thank you. IMHO, fuel injection is good for high altitude and easier cold starting (like below zero cold starting). Neither applies to you. Why not? If we have a winter storm/emergency, it's almost always below zero. This storm, we were in negative numbers for....about two days/nights give or take some hours. Of COURSE that's when the power will go out, cuz people are pulling more. Unless it's an ice story, then the power could go out at 30 degrees. Some years we have a lot of ice. Bad ice. Just a few years now and then we have deep snow. Most years we have about two weeks or so below zero (though those days may not all fall in sequence) Propane dual fuel is more important if you ask me. Why? I'm concerned about the efficiency of smaller tanks running these generators. I mean, I have sort of a measure for how much gasoline one of these might need, but propane? Can I even run one of these on a smaller tank? Will the surface area of a 100 lb upright tube tank produce enough vapor to drive a sizeable generator? Even when it's 10 below zero? Heat is the thing we cannot live without. I don't have to have A/C to survive. But heat....there needs to be a plan. That's what I'm after. I have a 500 gallon propane tank sitting behind the garage. BUT...tapping into that is going to be a learning curve, and it's a long way from the house, so I would have to do that "fill smaller bottles" thing some of the others were discussing. I have to do some research on how generators work with small tanks. Make sure you run the carb dry of fuel when you are done, and I've never had an issue. Super cold weather and a squirt or two of starting fluid has it running. There is no point to this thread if I'm not honest about my flaws. (Partly because that will help other people be realistic about THEIR habits.) I'm terrible at remembering to do this with equipment. But maybe I can find a brain work around for this, so I don't create hassle for myself with a gummed-up carb. Electric start is mandatory over 3500 watts. Why? Keep the battery on a maintainer for best results, Do you mean like a little solar panel charger dealie? and I assume you have a lithium jump pack around anyway? Not yet. Y'all helped me understand them in my "Work Truck" thread from a couple of years ago. But the money to spend on a good one keeps getting spent elsewhere, so I need to move that up the list for a lot of reasons. Life would be easier with that jump pack. You said to not charge your phone with it, but Im gonna do that some. 
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Posted: 1/13/2023 10:14:17 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So looking at your generator in the context of this thread, I would guess: 1-Noise is not an issue for you, cuz even though it's an inverter, you chose open frame. 2-Pull-start is not an issue for you (that appears to not have electric start) 3-How is the heft with the wheels on it? Would your teenage girl or small wife (or grandma) cuss a lot while moving it out of its hidey hole in the garage? Your thread gives details about what you want to power, so I won't repeat that here. Is my thinking about your thoughts/generator correct? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Mine So looking at your generator in the context of this thread, I would guess: 1-Noise is not an issue for you, cuz even though it's an inverter, you chose open frame. 2-Pull-start is not an issue for you (that appears to not have electric start) 3-How is the heft with the wheels on it? Would your teenage girl or small wife (or grandma) cuss a lot while moving it out of its hidey hole in the garage? Your thread gives details about what you want to power, so I won't repeat that here. Is my thinking about your thoughts/generator correct? 1) Nope not an issue. I watched 3 comparison videos on this one and it wasn’t much louder than an enclosed frame. Chose ease of maintenance over a few more decibels. 2) I didn’t want to have to maintain, rely on or worry about that little onboard battery. Yes, I could keep it on a trickle charger, but why? I’ve never had a generator fail to start by the second or third pull. Someone above said electric start is mandatory for over 3500 watts. I disagree. 3) It’s solid but with the wheels and handle it’s like lifting a 5 lb. dumbbell. Our 16 yr old daughter had no trouble wheeling it. And yep, as to the wattage, I honestly wouldn’t want anything bigger. Would be a waste in our case and for $813 this was a steal. |
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Posted: 1/13/2023 10:22:53 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 1) Nope not an issue. I watched 3 comparison videos on this one and it wasn’t much louder than an enclosed frame. Chose ease of maintenance over a few more decibels. 2) I didn’t want to have to maintain, rely on or worry about that little onboard battery. I’ve never had a generator fail to start by the second or third pull. Someone above said electric stat is mandatory for over 3500 watts. I disagree. 3) It’s solid but with the wheels and handle it’s like lifting a 5 lb. dumbbell. Our 16 yr old daughter had no trouble wheeling it. And yep, as to the wattage, I honestly wouldn’t want anything bigger. Would be a waste in our case and for $813 this was a steal. I'm honestly wondering if that would be a good get for me. But still looking at options. Because I'm so lax at maintenance, I wonder if the pull start would be okay for me. I mean, I run equipment every day with pull ropes, but I buy Echo SPECIFICALLY because it is famous for ease of start, and it has not disappointed me. I am interested to learn that you've had no trouble with generator pull starts. |
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Posted: 1/14/2023 12:23:51 AM EDT
[#18]
OP, after our disaster in Texas a couple years back, I ended up getting 3 of these:
https://www.ama zon.com/gp/product/B08JRVLB7C (link intentionally broken, remove space) Gave one to the brother, and have two for the house or one as a loaner. Gave my BIL my older near identical dual fuel. Given my poor experience w/ gas in the carb of my RV genny, I wanted to go dual-fuel so I can stock propane in the shed w/o concern, I don't have to worry about the carb gumming up, and I can use the fuel stored equally for heat as much as power. We're still on the power cord through the cat door, though I plan to do this to the heater for the lower part of the house:  This Could Keep Your Family Warm During An Emergency Power Outage. That would allow @ least one heater to run as long as we're still getting natural gas - if that stops, we'll huddle round the Mr Buddy heater and divert some of that generator propane to heat. I need to stock more propane, though we've had a mild winter so far. |
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Posted: 1/14/2023 12:33:26 AM EDT
[#19]
Small thread jack (plus history lesson)...
Many years ago, when the biggest inverter generator made was the Honda 3000i, the biggest gripe of owners was there was no way to parallel them into a 240V output. Every manufacturer's parallel kit kept the 120V output, only adding the amps together. There was a rather large discussion here in the SF, discussing if it could be done. Many folks more educated than myself on circuits decided it was likely possible. One member set out on a mission to make it happen. Many others offered to assist, buy-in, or financially support the effort. Updates got less frequent, then they just stopped happening altogether. I believe (my speculation) what happened is they discovered there wasn't a way to do it with the inverter controls the generators were equipped with, it would take gutting and redesigning the inverter itself, which was a big undertaking so the project was abandoned. Fast forward to today, maybe I've been living under a rock, but I just heard about the "Ecoflow Delta", which is a portable Li-ion battery backup system. That alone doesn't sound too interesting to me. But what I learned today is that Ecoflow has a "parallel" cord system that can truly parallel the power into twice the output of 120V, AND provide 120/240 that can be used to feed a house just like a 240V generator. 2 of these paralleled can provide 7,000 watts, and each one can store 3.6 kWh. No, you won't run your whole house heat pump on it (at least not for long), but if you have a gas furnace, water heater, etc, but really need the 240V for a well pump and enough juice to keep the furnace running all night, this seems like it fills that niche really well. This video shows a lot of the neat features of these things.  Replacing Our Gas Generator with EcoFlow Delta Pro for Whole Home Power Backup Disclaimer: I don't know how much these cost, and they aren't a long term solution, but this is something that a teenager, or someone with less physical strength can easily hook up for short term needs. |
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Posted: 1/14/2023 12:37:05 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: OP, after our disaster in Texas a couple years back, I ended up getting 3 of these: https://www.ama zon.com/gp/product/B08JRVLB7C (link intentionally broken, remove space) Gave one to the brother, and have two for the house or one as a loaner. Gave my BIL my older near identical dual fuel. Given my poor experience w/ gas in the carb of my RV genny, I wanted to go dual-fuel so I can stock propane in the shed w/o concern, I don't have to worry about the carb gumming up, and I can use the fuel stored equally for heat as much as power. We're still on the power cord through the cat door, though I plan to do this to the heater for the lower part of the house:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1JNuovFpCpQThat would allow @ least one heater to run as long as we're still getting natural gas - if that stops, we'll huddle round the Mr Buddy heater and divert some of that generator propane to heat. I need to stock more propane, though we've had a mild winter so far. I am going to watch this when I have not had wine. It's Friday night. So...wine. When he got inside the furnace wiring and started taking off wire nuts, I went, "WHOA! Okay no. Not tonight." So...yeah. I wanna see this. Just...not tonight.  
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Posted: 1/14/2023 12:44:06 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Small thread jack (plus history lesson)... Many years ago, when the biggest inverter generator made was the Honda 3000i, the biggest gripe of owners was there was no way to parallel them into a 240V output. Every manufacturer's parallel kit kept the 120V output, only adding the amps together. There was a rather large discussion here in the SF, discussing if it could be done. Many folks more educated than myself on circuits decided it was likely possible. One member set out on a mission to make it happen. Many others offered to assist, buy-in, or financially support the effort. Updates got less frequent, then they just stopped happening altogether. I believe (my speculation) what happened is they discovered there wasn't a way to do it with the inverter controls the generators were equipped with, it would take gutting and redesigning the inverter itself, which was a big undertaking so the project was abandoned. Fast forward to today, maybe I've been living under a rock, but I just heard about the "Ecoflow Delta", which is a portable Li-ion battery backup system. That alone doesn't sound too interesting to me. But what I learned today is that Ecoflow has a "parallel" cord system that can truly parallel the power into twice the output of 120V, AND provide 120/240 that can be used to feed a house just like a 240V generator. 2 of these paralleled can provide 7,000 watts, and each one can store 3.6 kWh. No, you won't run your whole house heat pump on it (at least not for long), but if you have a gas furnace, water heater, etc, but really need the 240V for a well pump and enough juice to keep the furnace running all night, this seems like it fills that niche really well. This video shows a lot of the neat features of these things. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ddI0e46Dbb0Disclaimer: I don't know how much these cost, and they aren't a long term solution, but this is something that a teenager, or someone with less physical strength can easily hook up for short term needs. Not a thread jack at all!!!! Great addition. Thank you! |
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Posted: 1/14/2023 1:02:19 AM EDT
[#22]
So...early in this thread, @guyina4x4
Mentioned this Wen generator. I have not seen anybody respond to this with criticisms or accolades. Y'all, pick it apart! Why should someone buy this generator or NOT? Folks in this forum have OPINIONS about the Generac generators. Apparently there are lawsuits pending. What about Wen? Yay? Nay? What say ye? Quote HistoryQuoted: Op i had that exact big gen for 4 years, 250 hours or so. Burns about .75 gallons an hour no load or half load. It's Very LOUD all the time. I had no problems with mine, i paid $699 shipped for mine from Amazon. I finally sold it this summer ($500) after i picked up a WEN 3800 invertor ($599)to pair with my 3yo predator 3500. Together they make more amps and use 1/3 the fuel doing it and you can't even hear them running unless you stand right next to them. Only Downside is NO 240VOLT. Not a big for me. WEN 3800 $649 today |
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Posted: 1/14/2023 1:19:10 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: With regard to my own....I posted my panel, and got some responses, but unless I missed an answer, I don't think there was a concensus on what I could or could not do with my external whole-house shut off breaker. Yeah, looking at your panel, to make it really quick and easy (putting in a different panel, with ONLY the circuits you want on it, and a transfer switch) would certainly require cutting a hole in the wall. If that's not something that you want to do, I think you could place a third box to the right of your main breaker panel, with a conduit between the two, and a transfer switch and male receptacle in that box. Feed the wire coming OFF of your main breaker over to the third box, into the "mains" side of the transfer switch, the "generator" side to your main receptacle, and the common output back through the conduit to feed your inside breaker panel. The transfer switch would, though, have to be rated for the full load of your main breaker. This would keep you from having to cut another hole, and it would feed every circuit in your house, which has ups and downs - it makes it super easy to power anything you want, also makes it easy for someone to plug in heavy loads that will trip the breaker on your generator, so YOU have to take on the responsibility of ensuring your heavy loads are off before cutting over, etc.. Actually... I'm not sure if having the additional panel is precluded by doing it all outside. You could, I guess, place the xfer switch, male receptacle, AND a "transfer panel" (a subpanel with only the circuits you want) outside. That would mean you'd have to extend the wires for those circuits (and from a larger breaker in the inside panel to feed the transfer panel) through the conduit coming out to the main breaker panel, then through conduit to the subpanel. There are a few subtleties of that where I really don't know what code dictates, so you'd want to consult with a pro. |
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Posted: 1/14/2023 2:07:12 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So...early in this thread, @guyina4x4 Mentioned this Wen generator. I have not seen anybody respond to this with criticisms or accolades. Y'all, pick it apart! Why should someone buy this generator or NOT? Folks in this forum have OPINIONS about the Generac generators. Apparently there are lawsuits pending. What about Wen? Yay? Nay? What say ye? |
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Posted: 1/14/2023 2:24:18 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I have to figure that out, and I will. But I've been milking for good posts like yours here, and others on this page, hoping to get a sort of "Frequently Asked Questions" situation where the answers are here in this "dumb it down" thread. You put the question about fuel very well, and I think all people should not overestimate what they WILL actually do. How much fuel CAN I store? Not that much really because I don't have space for it. BUT...I can probably store more than I actually WILL. However....I could fill up a few cans at the beginning of winter and then run through those for my truck fuel when the spring season starts. Maybe that's a good idea to consider. Stabilizer in all of it, etc etc. How much fuel WILL I store? I know myself by now, and I won't properly rotate through it, so I should be realistic about that. (Maintenance is a thing that gets bumped continually when my hair is on fire for whatever reason, and that is unlikely to change this year anyway. (I'm searching for more Zen, downsizing everything I own, etc, to make room for the important things, but I'm not there yet.) **So on the one hand, an inverter might require less fuel to be stored. And less fuel to be rotated in and out. AND...if fuel is hard to get at some point (cuz it's not available or it's impossible to get to it) I would be glad for a more fuel-efficient machine. I remember a story about that dirty power generator from some earlier thread. That's what made me aware that there even was such a thing. So thank you. Why not? If we have a winter storm/emergency, it's almost always below zero. This storm, we were in negative numbers for....about two days/nights give or take some hours. Of COURSE that's when the power will go out, cuz people are pulling more. Unless it's an ice story, then the power could go out at 30 degrees. Some years we have a lot of ice. Bad ice. Just a few years now and then we have deep snow. Most years we have about two weeks or so below zero (though those days may not all fall in sequence) I didn't realize it got that cold down there. That said, I've started many 'o carb engines that have been cold soaking at -20 or colder. The big trick is starter fluid, maybe a couple times, and plenty of choke. Fuel injected starts easier, sure, but you have to count the battery as dead in those temps, requiring a boost. So fuel injection is nice, but I've yet to see a dual fuel genny that is fuel injected, and dual fuel is a requirement in a primary generator, IMHO. Why? I'm concerned about the efficiency of smaller tanks running these generators. I mean, I have sort of a measure for how much gasoline one of these might need, but propane? Can I even run one of these on a smaller tank? Will the surface area of a 100 lb upright tube tank produce enough vapor to drive a sizeable generator? Even when it's 10 below zero? Yes, you can run a generator at very low temps off a propane tank. I've done it. I ran my big 9k Champion dual fuel in cold temps off of a 100 pound tank that was freezing up. The solution: set the propane tank about 18" from the exhaust. I used the heat of the exhaust to warm the tank . OSHA approved? Probably not, but I did what I had to do, and it worked. Keep in mind my 9k Champion is a very thirsty machine.Heat is the thing we cannot live without. I don't have to have A/C to survive. But heat....there needs to be a plan. That's what I'm after. I'm assuming LP/NG/Oil furnace and you need power to run that? If that is what you need, along with a couple lights and the fridge/freezer/internet/tv, I'd look hard at 4500 watt inverter dual fuel generator. I have a 500 gallon propane tank sitting behind the garage. BUT...tapping into that is going to be a learning curve, and it's a long way from the house, so I would have to do that "fill smaller bottles" thing some of the others were discussing. I have to do some research on how generators work with small tanks. You can simply T into the line right after the first regulator at the tank, run a poly yard line to where you want the propane to be, hook up the second low pressure regulator, then use a rubber propane hose from that regulator to the generator, shutoff valves as appropriate. Biggest PITA would be the trench. With dual fuel you don't HAVE TO run propane, but propane has distinct advantages, main one is the fuel doesn't go bad, and it does not gum up the carb: When you are done, simply shut it off and put it away (bonus points for fogging the cylinder, but nobody does this). Dual fuel also means if you can't get gas, you can run it off propane and vise versa. Also, if your carb goes to crap (the float on my 9k went bad at about 500 hours), I was able to switch to propane and keep going, even while I was fixing the float! There is no point to this thread if I'm not honest about my flaws. (Partly because that will help other people be realistic about THEIR habits.) I'm terrible at remembering to do this with equipment. But maybe I can find a brain work around for this, so I don't create hassle for myself with a gummed-up carb. When you turn off the generator, follow this sequence: Remove the load, shut off the fuel. If the generator does NOT have a fuel shutoff valve, install one (and a gas filter while you are at it) when you first get it. Just let the generator run itself out of fuel. Why? I'm getting to where I'm honest with myself: I'm getting older. My wife is getting older. Maybe my Mom is over watching the kids and needs to switch to generator power (even short outages for us means generator switch due to our special needs child). Yes, I can pull start even my 9k, but it is only getting harder. Maybe I'm injured where I can't pull start. Maybe I don't want to risk that one more activity during a SHTF to pull start a big engine. I'd rather let the machines to it. The other big reason is cold starting: the faster you spin the engine, the easier it will start. My 18 year old self would laugh at me now, but here I am making electric start a big deal over 3-5 hp. Do you mean like a little solar panel charger dealie? That or a plug in model. Solar is fine if it can get sun, adding a battery disconnect is even better (to avoid parasitic drains). I'm lazy now and just let the battery go to shit and use my jump pack . I was going to make a dedicated generator house, but with moving now, I doubt that will happen as the next house will get a regular standby unit hooked to my bulk propane tank.Not yet. Y'all helped me understand them in my "Work Truck" thread from a couple of years ago. But the money to spend on a good one keeps getting spent elsewhere, so I need to move that up the list for a lot of reasons. Life would be easier with that jump pack. You said to not charge your phone with it, but Im gonna do that some. Yeah, I don't advocate using them to charge a phone, because then when you need it, no power . Don't let perfect be the enemy of good; get even a $40 lithium jump pack that is "rated" for the size engine you would use it on. Read reviews, check out Project Farm and the couple reviews he did of them to find a brand.Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I didn't read the whole thread, but what exactly do you need and want to power with the genny, and how much fuel can you or will you realistically store? I have to figure that out, and I will. But I've been milking for good posts like yours here, and others on this page, hoping to get a sort of "Frequently Asked Questions" situation where the answers are here in this "dumb it down" thread. You put the question about fuel very well, and I think all people should not overestimate what they WILL actually do. How much fuel CAN I store? Not that much really because I don't have space for it. BUT...I can probably store more than I actually WILL. However....I could fill up a few cans at the beginning of winter and then run through those for my truck fuel when the spring season starts. Maybe that's a good idea to consider. Stabilizer in all of it, etc etc. How much fuel WILL I store? I know myself by now, and I won't properly rotate through it, so I should be realistic about that. (Maintenance is a thing that gets bumped continually when my hair is on fire for whatever reason, and that is unlikely to change this year anyway. (I'm searching for more Zen, downsizing everything I own, etc, to make room for the important things, but I'm not there yet.) **So on the one hand, an inverter might require less fuel to be stored. And less fuel to be rotated in and out. AND...if fuel is hard to get at some point (cuz it's not available or it's impossible to get to it) I would be glad for a more fuel-efficient machine. I personally like my Champion generators as a great value. I have almost 1000 hours on my big conventional champion, still going strong. My smaller inverter champion runs like, well, a champ. Both are dual fuel. Good US support, still have the parts they sent me for free! Clean and dirty power refer to the voltage and frequency the generator is giving. A good generator (and all inverter generators) will have good power that matches utility power. The best have a pure sine wave output, but I've never had issues with modified sine wave. It isn't near as big an issue these days like it used to be. I do have a Briggs generator that puts out dirty power, the fridge compressor makes sad noises using it. I have it in the backup/loaner stack. ..... I remember a story about that dirty power generator from some earlier thread. That's what made me aware that there even was such a thing. So thank you. IMHO, fuel injection is good for high altitude and easier cold starting (like below zero cold starting). Neither applies to you. Why not? If we have a winter storm/emergency, it's almost always below zero. This storm, we were in negative numbers for....about two days/nights give or take some hours. Of COURSE that's when the power will go out, cuz people are pulling more. Unless it's an ice story, then the power could go out at 30 degrees. Some years we have a lot of ice. Bad ice. Just a few years now and then we have deep snow. Most years we have about two weeks or so below zero (though those days may not all fall in sequence) I didn't realize it got that cold down there. That said, I've started many 'o carb engines that have been cold soaking at -20 or colder. The big trick is starter fluid, maybe a couple times, and plenty of choke. Fuel injected starts easier, sure, but you have to count the battery as dead in those temps, requiring a boost. So fuel injection is nice, but I've yet to see a dual fuel genny that is fuel injected, and dual fuel is a requirement in a primary generator, IMHO. Propane dual fuel is more important if you ask me. Why? I'm concerned about the efficiency of smaller tanks running these generators. I mean, I have sort of a measure for how much gasoline one of these might need, but propane? Can I even run one of these on a smaller tank? Will the surface area of a 100 lb upright tube tank produce enough vapor to drive a sizeable generator? Even when it's 10 below zero? Yes, you can run a generator at very low temps off a propane tank. I've done it. I ran my big 9k Champion dual fuel in cold temps off of a 100 pound tank that was freezing up. The solution: set the propane tank about 18" from the exhaust. I used the heat of the exhaust to warm the tank . OSHA approved? Probably not, but I did what I had to do, and it worked. Keep in mind my 9k Champion is a very thirsty machine.Heat is the thing we cannot live without. I don't have to have A/C to survive. But heat....there needs to be a plan. That's what I'm after. I'm assuming LP/NG/Oil furnace and you need power to run that? If that is what you need, along with a couple lights and the fridge/freezer/internet/tv, I'd look hard at 4500 watt inverter dual fuel generator. I have a 500 gallon propane tank sitting behind the garage. BUT...tapping into that is going to be a learning curve, and it's a long way from the house, so I would have to do that "fill smaller bottles" thing some of the others were discussing. I have to do some research on how generators work with small tanks. You can simply T into the line right after the first regulator at the tank, run a poly yard line to where you want the propane to be, hook up the second low pressure regulator, then use a rubber propane hose from that regulator to the generator, shutoff valves as appropriate. Biggest PITA would be the trench. With dual fuel you don't HAVE TO run propane, but propane has distinct advantages, main one is the fuel doesn't go bad, and it does not gum up the carb: When you are done, simply shut it off and put it away (bonus points for fogging the cylinder, but nobody does this). Dual fuel also means if you can't get gas, you can run it off propane and vise versa. Also, if your carb goes to crap (the float on my 9k went bad at about 500 hours), I was able to switch to propane and keep going, even while I was fixing the float! Make sure you run the carb dry of fuel when you are done, and I've never had an issue. Super cold weather and a squirt or two of starting fluid has it running. There is no point to this thread if I'm not honest about my flaws. (Partly because that will help other people be realistic about THEIR habits.) I'm terrible at remembering to do this with equipment. But maybe I can find a brain work around for this, so I don't create hassle for myself with a gummed-up carb. When you turn off the generator, follow this sequence: Remove the load, shut off the fuel. If the generator does NOT have a fuel shutoff valve, install one (and a gas filter while you are at it) when you first get it. Just let the generator run itself out of fuel. Electric start is mandatory over 3500 watts. Why? I'm getting to where I'm honest with myself: I'm getting older. My wife is getting older. Maybe my Mom is over watching the kids and needs to switch to generator power (even short outages for us means generator switch due to our special needs child). Yes, I can pull start even my 9k, but it is only getting harder. Maybe I'm injured where I can't pull start. Maybe I don't want to risk that one more activity during a SHTF to pull start a big engine. I'd rather let the machines to it. The other big reason is cold starting: the faster you spin the engine, the easier it will start. My 18 year old self would laugh at me now, but here I am making electric start a big deal over 3-5 hp. Keep the battery on a maintainer for best results, Do you mean like a little solar panel charger dealie? That or a plug in model. Solar is fine if it can get sun, adding a battery disconnect is even better (to avoid parasitic drains). I'm lazy now and just let the battery go to shit and use my jump pack . I was going to make a dedicated generator house, but with moving now, I doubt that will happen as the next house will get a regular standby unit hooked to my bulk propane tank. and I assume you have a lithium jump pack around anyway? Not yet. Y'all helped me understand them in my "Work Truck" thread from a couple of years ago. But the money to spend on a good one keeps getting spent elsewhere, so I need to move that up the list for a lot of reasons. Life would be easier with that jump pack. You said to not charge your phone with it, but Im gonna do that some. Yeah, I don't advocate using them to charge a phone, because then when you need it, no power . Don't let perfect be the enemy of good; get even a $40 lithium jump pack that is "rated" for the size engine you would use it on. Read reviews, check out Project Farm and the couple reviews he did of them to find a brand. |
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Posted: 1/14/2023 2:28:33 AM EDT
[#26]
Oh, one more thing regarding generator sizing and interlocks: If you don't need to power any 240 volt loads, you can use a 120 volt generator and still power both sides of your power panel with it by making a small adapter. I had the how to in my thread where we ran the property on genny power for a month solid, but that has long since archived. Stupid simple, just jumping the L wire from the 120 volt generator to power both L1 and L2 in the 240v plug. The whole adapter is a foot long, is safe, NOT a suicide cord, and works well. Good practice to kill 240v dual breakers though, because they will have 120 volts (of the same phase instead of opposite) to each wire and it *could* damage them, maybe, possibly, maybe. Fun part is the clock on your electric oven will turn on, but the burners won't work
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Posted: 1/14/2023 2:34:29 AM EDT
[#27]
Just post whoring here...
I like inverter generators for general house/rv power outage duty. Why? eco mode where it throttles down is handy. Generally speaking, unless you are running a big central AC, your loads are fairly small. I have a 4200? watt Champion open frame dual fuel inverter generator that I bought for my RV primarily, but as the "small" generator for the house for in winter when I'm not needing AC. When the RV wasn't needing AC, it would idle down and a tank of gasoline (4 gallons? 3.5? I don't remember) would last a very long time. It would power maybe the furnace a bit, lights (all LED in our camper), microwave here and there, TV, and that is about it. So it mainly idled. I want to say I would run 18ish hours. Now when were boondocking in 90+ degree heat, the AC never shut off so the generator would run wide open all day, and would get about 8 hours. A non-inverter generator would have used about the same. So if your loads are sized so that your average usage is small on generator power, an inverter is a wise choice IMHO. I personally use the combo of a "big" conventional generator for summer time and a smaller inverter for winter time (doubles as my RV generator of course). |
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Posted: 1/14/2023 3:33:43 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote Historyhttps://www.menards.com/main/outdoor/outdoor-power-equipment/generators/wen-reg-3-500-running-4-000-starting-watt-open-frame-inverter-generator/gn400im/p-1642874263352160-c-10107.htm If you have a Menards nearby and Wen is on the shopping list, this was a black friday sale that is still reasonably priced at $399 if there are still any left in your local stores. Seems like a pretty good deal, although no wheels so probably need to WECSOG some wheels/casters/cart or something. This was posted in the big |
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Posted: 1/15/2023 9:33:04 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You're showing a Mercedes car and asking why it's more expensive than a Ford. It's 5 grand because it has the word HONDA on it. They make good generators, but they're spendy. Honda are known for reliabilty, long life on the engines, and RF quiet inverters. If you're a contractor who puts a ton of hours on a generator running it every day on worksites, then Honda may be a good choice for you. If you're a homeowner looking for an economical option for a few hours a year of emergency backup power, might be better to look at lower cost brands. 7000 watts is getting into serious territory as far as plugs, wire gauges, breakers and the like. This is not a trivial amount of electrical power, that's almost 60 amps at 120v. Almost certainly would have to split that up between multiple plugs and cordsets, not common to find a plug for larger than 50 amps, along with the serious wire gauge. Really need to look at your actual needs and usage and see if you really need that much wattage. 7000 watt Champion open-frame inverter is $1249 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B083V8VNGL?tag=arfcom00-20 Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Is there anything specifically worth FIVE THOUSAND DOLLARS here? I mean...compared to anything else? You're showing a Mercedes car and asking why it's more expensive than a Ford. It's 5 grand because it has the word HONDA on it. They make good generators, but they're spendy. Honda are known for reliabilty, long life on the engines, and RF quiet inverters. If you're a contractor who puts a ton of hours on a generator running it every day on worksites, then Honda may be a good choice for you. If you're a homeowner looking for an economical option for a few hours a year of emergency backup power, might be better to look at lower cost brands. 7000 watts is getting into serious territory as far as plugs, wire gauges, breakers and the like. This is not a trivial amount of electrical power, that's almost 60 amps at 120v. Almost certainly would have to split that up between multiple plugs and cordsets, not common to find a plug for larger than 50 amps, along with the serious wire gauge. Really need to look at your actual needs and usage and see if you really need that much wattage. 7000 watt Champion open-frame inverter is $1249 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B083V8VNGL?tag=arfcom00-20 That generator right now is $847 |
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Posted: 1/15/2023 11:53:36 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That generator right now is $847 Ordered. Thank you @Handydave for the text and heads-up. I have no idea how I will connect the damn thing. But if life gets bad, I have a few 12 gauge extension cords. No, it's not dual fuel, but honestly, the whole "running off of propane" is more of a learning curve for me right now than just buying a whopping generator that can idle down for smaller loads and can probably carry anything I throw at it. The price is about what I would pay for just over half the watts, so....I fent. Y'all can talk me out of it. I have 30 days to return it. I also have a brand new Big Buddy heater in the back of the car. No idea how to do that either, but....baby steps. With a bit of honest finagling of bits, pieces and parts, we will at least not be cold and maybe the pipes won't freeze. Probably another Big Buddy should be on the list. Maybe two more. Dropping almost a thousand dollars on this thing.....it took a few deep breaths. |
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Posted: 1/15/2023 11:59:20 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: https://www.menards.com/main/outdoor/outdoor-power-equipment/generators/wen-reg-3-500-running-4-000-starting-watt-open-frame-inverter-generator/gn400im/p-1642874263352160-c-10107.htm If you have a Menards nearby and Wen is on the shopping list, this was a black friday sale that is still reasonably priced at $399 if there are still any left in your local stores. Seems like a pretty good deal, although no wheels so probably need to WECSOG some wheels/casters/cart or something. This was posted in the big Menards has, apparently, contracted on property in our town (like two years ago) but no earth moving equipment has appeared on that property yet. I will be glad for competition for the local SAM's, which needs, desperately, to up its game. Wish we had a Costco, but the nearest is Nashville. |
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Posted: 1/16/2023 12:35:35 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Dropping almost a thousand dollars on this thing.....it took a few deep breaths. It's a good price for an inverter type that large. Champion is a well-regarded brand. You didn't make a bad choice. Work on getting a high-amperage input and switchover/disconnect/transfer switch or whatever in place so you can power your home without dealing with a bunch of extension cords. It should be relatively straightforward to install with the outdoor panels you have. |
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Posted: 1/16/2023 12:49:45 AM EDT
[#33]
That should be a good unit for you. The absolute biggest thing to remember is to turn it off by shutting off the fuel so the carb gets drained.
Replace the spark plug with a new NGK brand, keep an extra or two on the shelf. |
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Posted: 1/16/2023 12:53:22 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It's a good price for an inverter type that large. Champion is a well-regarded brand. You didn't make a bad choice. Work on getting a high-amperage input and switchover/disconnect/transfer switch or whatever in place so you can power your home without dealing with a bunch of extension cords. It should be relatively straightforward to install with the outdoor panels you have. Next step will be figuring that out. I may do a thread about that. I think my situation is too specific to include it in this thread. |
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Posted: 1/16/2023 12:54:56 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That should be a good unit for you. The absolute biggest thing to remember is to turn it off by shutting off the fuel so the carb gets drained. Replace the spark plug with a new NGK brand, keep an extra or two on the shelf. Okay. I'm not good at this maintenance stuff. Dammit. That's not hard, but my hair is always on fire one way or another and maintenance falls to the bottom of the list. I need to reorient myself toward maintenance. For my business as well as my home. |
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Posted: 1/16/2023 1:54:29 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Dropping almost a thousand dollars on this thing.....it took a few deep breaths. Isn't your business half "regular stuff" and about half "Helping people with emergencies"? If so, don't be surprised if you end up finding occasions when someone needs a generator, and you get to bill them for using yours (if you want). |
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Posted: 1/16/2023 2:11:04 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Isn't your business half "regular stuff" and about half "Helping people with emergencies"? If so, don't be surprised if you end up finding occasions when someone needs a generator, and you get to bill them for using yours (if you want). That is a very interesting application. I will list you as a consultant.  I like this. |
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Posted: 1/16/2023 7:15:55 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Okay. I'm not good at this maintenance stuff. Dammit. That's not hard, but my hair is always on fire one way or another and maintenance falls to the bottom of the list. I need to reorient myself toward maintenance. For my business as well as my home. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: That should be a good unit for you. The absolute biggest thing to remember is to turn it off by shutting off the fuel so the carb gets drained. Replace the spark plug with a new NGK brand, keep an extra or two on the shelf. Okay. I'm not good at this maintenance stuff. Dammit. That's not hard, but my hair is always on fire one way or another and maintenance falls to the bottom of the list. I need to reorient myself toward maintenance. For my business as well as my home. I bought one too so I’ll dig into the plugs and see what’s needed. I plan to put a motor snorkel on it and convert it to tri- fuel down the road so we can potentially cross that bridge together. I converted an old Honda EB3500 I got non running off Craigslist ( water in gas tank and bad gfi ) and it’s still running. It used the old aluminum spacer style and I had to cut the frame to make it fit so the newer snorkel will be good to try. As far as hooking up. Has anyone found an interlock plate that will work with OP’s disconnect ? Once that’s sourced worst case relocate the two existing 240 circuits into a outdoor rated sub panel directly to the right fed via the bottom 2 pole breaker freeing up the top 2 pole for an interlocked backfeed. |
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Posted: 1/16/2023 8:46:09 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ordered. Thank you @Handydave for the text and heads-up. I have no idea how I will connect the damn thing. But if life gets bad, I have a few 12 gauge extension cords. No, it's not dual fuel, but honestly, the whole "running off of propane" is more of a learning curve for me right now than just buying a whopping generator that can idle down for smaller loads and can probably carry anything I throw at it. The price is about what I would pay for just over half the watts, so....I fent. Y'all can talk me out of it. I have 30 days to return it. I also have a brand new Big Buddy heater in the back of the car. No idea how to do that either, but....baby steps. With a bit of honest finagling of bits, pieces and parts, we will at least not be cold and maybe the pipes won't freeze. Probably another Big Buddy should be on the list. Maybe two more. Dropping almost a thousand dollars on this thing.....it took a few deep breaths. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: That generator right now is $847 Ordered. Thank you @Handydave for the text and heads-up. I have no idea how I will connect the damn thing. But if life gets bad, I have a few 12 gauge extension cords. No, it's not dual fuel, but honestly, the whole "running off of propane" is more of a learning curve for me right now than just buying a whopping generator that can idle down for smaller loads and can probably carry anything I throw at it. The price is about what I would pay for just over half the watts, so....I fent. Y'all can talk me out of it. I have 30 days to return it. I also have a brand new Big Buddy heater in the back of the car. No idea how to do that either, but....baby steps. With a bit of honest finagling of bits, pieces and parts, we will at least not be cold and maybe the pipes won't freeze. Probably another Big Buddy should be on the list. Maybe two more. Dropping almost a thousand dollars on this thing.....it took a few deep breaths. Wow. That’s a BIG one!  Buy some jerry cans from my jerry can thread and have some fuel set aside. |
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Posted: 1/16/2023 9:48:24 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That is a very interesting application. I will list you as a consultant. I like this. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Isn't your business half "regular stuff" and about half "Helping people with emergencies"? If so, don't be surprised if you end up finding occasions when someone needs a generator, and you get to bill them for using yours (if you want). That is a very interesting application. I will list you as a consultant. I like this. It is for business use. Gotta keep those job sites running & office in case of an outage |
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Posted: 1/16/2023 11:00:33 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It is for business use. Gotta keep those job sites running & office in case of an outage Absolutely, along with fuel storage (including the containers). |
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Posted: 1/16/2023 2:59:30 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Wow. That’s a BIG one! Buy some jerry cans from my jerry can thread and have some fuel set aside. I suggest 2 1/2 gallon sizes instead of the traditional 5 gallon, a lot easier to handle and fill smaller things from, especially if you buy the heavy metal jerry cans. |
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Posted: 1/16/2023 4:35:17 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I suggest 2 1/2 gallon sizes instead of the traditional 5 gallon, a lot easier to handle and fill smaller things from, especially if you buy the heavy metal jerry cans. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Wow. That’s a BIG one! Buy some jerry cans from my jerry can thread and have some fuel set aside. I suggest 2 1/2 gallon sizes instead of the traditional 5 gallon, a lot easier to handle and fill smaller things from, especially if you buy the heavy metal jerry cans. An electric fuel transfer pump makes a big difference. Nowadays, they have the battery operated plastic ones that actually work pretty well. Pouring gas from a can, can be a PITA (especially the 5 gallon NATO cans). Easier to stick the pump in the mouth, the nozzle in the device (gennie, lawnmower, whatever) and push a button. |
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Posted: 1/16/2023 4:51:34 PM EDT
[#44]
I'm a fan of the No-Spill brand cans for filling generators, mowers, small tractors, etc... pretty much anything except automobiles. The push-button self-venting nozzle just makes it so easy. Wal-Mart has the 2 1/2 gallon size at a lower price, they just aren't No-Spill branded.
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Posted: 1/16/2023 5:33:53 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm a fan of the No-Spill brand cans for filling generators, mowers, small tractors, etc... pretty much anything except automobiles. The push-button self-venting nozzle just makes it so easy. Wal-Mart has the 2 1/2 gallon size at a lower price, they just aren't No-Spill branded. Those 2.5 no spill are my go to as well for daily use. Longer term fuel storage is in Jerry cans and dispensed with a simple siphon Diesel goes in the yellow VP racing jugs. |
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Posted: 1/16/2023 7:16:10 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That was actually going to be my next contestant. This is great news, that it has worked well for you. Have you used the WEN in an emergency situation? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Op i had that exact big gen for 4 years, 250 hours or so. Burns about .75 gallons an hour no load or half load. It's Very LOUD all the time. I had no problems with mine, i paid $699 shipped for mine from Amazon. I finally sold it this summer ($500) after i picked up a WEN 3800 invertor ($599)to pair with my 3yo predator 3500. Together they make more amps and use 1/3 the fuel doing it and you can't even hear them running unless you stand right next to them. Only Downside is NO 240VOLT. Not a big for me. WEN 3800 $649 today That was actually going to be my next contestant. This is great news, that it has worked well for you. Have you used the WEN in an emergency situation? It ran the fridge, freezer and furnace with no sweat. I didn't even need to fire up the hft 3500. I can't figure out what you ordered? But for me the main thing has been noise. Open frame invertor gens are still loud. Not as loud as reg gens but still much louder than closed invertors. Others here question the reliability of names like wen. I've owned generac, HFT, Champion, Ai power x2 and now wen. I've never had a failure of any kind with any of them beyond pull rope breaking. I usually keep them till around 300 hours or so. Until this last year i was powering my shop mostly with generators. I also usually have 2-4 generators on hand so i can keep mom and dad going and rotate them to keep them fresh. The single biggest problem with all small engine equipment is fuel system. And honestly isn't the fault of fuel or the equipment design. It's the user. People buy gas and put it in dirty cans leave the caps off sitting outside next to the garage mowing past it and raining into it. |
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Posted: 1/16/2023 7:55:10 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I suggest 2 1/2 gallon sizes instead of the traditional 5 gallon, a lot easier to handle and fill smaller things from, especially if you buy the heavy metal jerry cans. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Wow. That’s a BIG one! Buy some jerry cans from my jerry can thread and have some fuel set aside. I suggest 2 1/2 gallon sizes instead of the traditional 5 gallon, a lot easier to handle and fill smaller things from, especially if you buy the heavy metal jerry cans. Would fit better in a truck bed too. |
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Posted: 1/18/2023 2:25:01 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Wow. That’s a BIG one! Buy some jerry cans from my jerry can thread and have some fuel set aside. Putting that on the list. I have a couple of five-gallon plastic cans that i was gonna toss. I should keep those and find lids for them. (not the easiest thing to source now, thanks to the lovely . |
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Posted: 1/18/2023 2:25:59 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It is for business use. Gotta keep those job sites running & office in case of an outage For real on my chems. They can't freeze. I lost sleep so far this winter because my old oil-filled heater died, and the new heater is digital, which means it doesn't come back on after a short outage. |
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Posted: 1/18/2023 2:27:25 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I suggest 2 1/2 gallon sizes instead of the traditional 5 gallon, a lot easier to handle and fill smaller things from, especially if you buy the heavy metal jerry cans. Yes. Anything I buy will be smaller. I have two five-gallon cans that I should refurb and keep. Plus one five-gallon SureCan that I use for work. I need new lids for the old cans. |
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