#1 - Suppressed AR15 w/.22 conversion


#2 - Either the 870 or the 590A1.  Probably the 870.


#3 - Kimber TLE


#4 - S&W M37

I'm not going to argue, or quote anyone in the thread, or call anyone out.

As for the shotgun:

1 - Try shooting quail on the wing with an AR, AK, 10/22, bolt action rifle or a handgun.

2 - The Winchester 1897 was so devastating the Germans tried to have it banned during WWI.  And they invented the use of poisonous gas, and perfected the use of the machinegun.

You may claim that I am nit picking


Here goes some tech stuff anyway





This is stuff from what I remember when I evaluated apocalypse arms a long time before I had the SF to help.





Slide action shotgun for personal defense:  00 buck @ 1300 to 1500 fps


>advantages:


>>relatively inexpensive


>>Fudd aproved.





>Things that are not advantages:


>>High recoil...Mr. Barrett says about his Mk82 "about like a 12 ga shotgun"...Recoil is a big contributor to inaccuracy and smaller people quitting shooting.  A shotgun is going to only be liked by people that want to shoot.


>>Not the best power on target IMO...12 pellets go downrange, but only 3 or so strike the target.  Where did the rest of the load go?  Collateral damage is bad...I think you would agree.


>>Follow-up-shots require some training to get the weapon back on target and to avoid short- stroking the action.  High recoil again.
Slide action shotgun for hunting:  bird shot for birds @ about 1400 fps , and slugs for deer @ about 1400 fps


>advantages:


>>relatively inexpensive


>>Fudd aproved.


>>May be the only firearm that is legal to hunt with.


>>gives best chance of taking foul that are in flight





>Things that are not advantages:


>>low velocity limits range.





AR for personal defense:  60ish gr Barns or Nossler Partition @ about 3000 fps


>advantages:


>>these projectiles tear bigger holes in ballistic gelatin than 30 cal spheres.


>>Low recooil...helps with the fun to shoot so more training can happen


>>Follow-up-shots are just a trigger twitch away...see low recoil





>Things that are not advantages:


>>relatively expensive compared to shotgun


>>Not fudd aproved





ARfor hunting:  60ish gr Barns or Nossler Partition @ about 3000 fps


>advantages:


>>Flatter trajectory may increase range for some game


>>Low recoil





>Things that are not advantages:


>>relatively expensive compared to shotgun


>>Not fudd aproved


>>Not legal to hunt with in some locations for assorted reasons
I do not live where an AR is banned for hunting footed critters, and I don't hunt birds





So there you have it ... shotguns just don't quite fit me.


YMMV




 
 

I agree with the basic premise but always thought the list should be 5 guns, not 4.

1 semi-auto in .223 or .308, 1 12 guage shotgun, 1 larger caliber (.308, 7 mm, 30-06, the like) bolt gun with nice scope, 1 pistol, 1 .22

And for the 12 guage get one one with swappable barrels, a shorty for repelling home invasions and a longer one for game hunting.

A slingshot and a BB gun is probably a ban-proof duo!  

Sounds good...but you are missing one IMHO...an "assault rifle".  

Add an AR or an AK to your list.....or swap out the Rem 700 for a .308 battle rifle....M1A, AR10, FAL, etc...

I'm pretty sure I would just shoot them on the ground/fence line with the .22LR since I'm sure the Game Warden wouldn't care at that point.

Hell, I can barely shoot a quail with a shotgun. Fast little bastards....

My list would have to be six weapons that I currently own. If I was making a dream list, the six guns would cost more than my house.

22 Pistol, my choice is my suppressed Ruger Mark II, perfect poachers gun.

22 Rifle, I like the Browning Takedown, most others will pick a 10-22.  The Browning will take down to fit in a pack and there's no magazine to loose.

Centerfire Pistol, my Ed Brown 1911 is my favorite.  It's 100 % reliable and more accurate than I am.  

Centerfire Semi Rifle, My favorite is my Colt 6521 with a 1.5 ACOG.  I like the lighter pencil barrel of the 6521 vs the M4 profiles.

Centerfire Bolt Gun, my current project is a Remington VTR in 308 in a B&C stock with a Jewel trigger and Swarovski optic.  It's shooting right at .625" with Hornady TAP 175's off the bipod, and I haven't played with the bedding or load development yet.  

Shotgun. I have a Winchester 1300 Riot Gun that I used to shoot 3 gun with.  It has screw in chokes, a speed feed stock, side saddle and an oversize front bead sight. I know most prefer the 590 or the 870 but I like the extra round the 1300 holds and the rotary bolt pump action is faster than either the 590 or the 870.

I am running an AR15 and a 9mm pistol. I can deal with 95% of the situations I am likely to encounter with those.

Add a .22lr for economy and a 12GA  shotgun for versatility for your 4 guns and you are set. If I could add a 5th gun it would be a scoped long rifle in .308.

This is a deficiency for me. I do not have a scoped long rifle in .308, I just want one. I don't really feel that "need" for one, otherwise I'd have it... Instead I have a couple of extra .22 LR guns, a couple of extra pistols, and a second AR15.

Strategy takes a back seat to desire sometimes, I guess.

BTW, bonus points for anyone who can figure out what Perk my avatar represents .

I agree on the 10/22.

For rifle, I either suggest what you mention (BA rifle) in .223/5.56mm or an AR-15.  The .223/5.56 because it's a very common caliber.

Shotgun is good.

Handgun I would suggest one of two guns in 9mm.  I choose 9mm because it's probably the most popular pistol round in production, thus making it easier to find than .44 magnum.  I would either choose the Glock 19, because it's the most common pistol in use today, making it easier to find magazines, or I would choose a 9mm revolver.  Although it has a lower ammo capacity there is no magazine to lose or break.  

Spikes tactical AR15 and G21 for me
Sig AR15 for the wife and her S&W 9mm
22lr for the boy
Pellet gun for squirrels and birds

That my friend would be the ~Bloody Mess Perk.

I to enjoy a little FO3 and FNV every now and again

1) Agreed on the 10/22
2) I would rather have an AR platform.  I think it would harvest game just fine.  Plus it's a better defensive firearm than the shotgun.
3) However I would still have the shotgun.  Mossberg or Remington, whatever your preference.   Added flexibility as a game harvester and 12 gauge has to be the single most popular round in America.  Requires a lot of training as a defensive gun though.
4) 9mm or .45ACP pistol of your choosing.  Preferably something common and reliable.  I would pick my Glock.

For the .22 I went with the 77/22. While the 10/22 is one of the best made it still has flaws. Any .22 semi can be picky about the ammo it eats. The 77/22 is like Rosie O'donnel and will eat anything you give it. I've gotten lots of free .22 ammo from friends that their 10/22 would normally jam up on.

Why?  If it's the EOTW I'm not going to wait for dinner to fly. I'll shoot them on the ground. Many a time I've thought "If I could just use a 22 that Pheasant would be mine!".

I enjoy these questions but lets admit, your answers going to depend on your location and situation.

With that said:
AR15 - preferably in 300BLK and silenced
I'm torn between my HK USP compact which is like a tank, it just keeps going; and my M&P FS which is more comfortable and completely reliable but seems more likely to a failure.
I like the posters 10/22 idea
Probably a Buck Mark or 22/45.

...

change my rifle from an ak to a lever gun 30-30.  cause,   ar's will be easy to pick up, but a good lever gun will be hard to come by

Great list!
I used to dislike shotguns - for all the reasons listed by other posters here. Then I picked a Maverick 88 up for a steal and spent some time with it.
Personally, I'd prefer a .308 or 5.56/223 semi auto over a shotgun.

My list:
AR15
.22lr Henry lever action
Glock 19
12ga Maverick 88

A shotgun gives you a lot of options. i got the security model with the short barrel (18.5" or so) and 8 shot tube. Let's take a look at some things it offers:
I can run 00 for defense and hunting medium game
I can run bird shot for winged/ small critters
I can stick it in the hands of my elderly parents or wife with the mini buckshot shells and they handle it well
I have no where in my AO where a shot past 50 yards is required
If really needed, I can get the lock or hinges off a door in a hurry - haven't tried it, but shot at various pieces of plywood and appliances. It will do the job...
Ammo is every where and cheap
A maverick 88 is so cheap, I got a few more - It's cheaper than SKS at this point. A better choice for a "hand out"

It is not a point and shoot weapon like Hollywood claims...you still need to aim. I can't stand a bead sight. I'm better sights on mine.
It is not a wonder weapon. It is a short range firearm. You are not going to take 150 yard shots with a 12ga - even with slugs I doubt it would work well - haven't tried it though. I don't think there's any game left in the world that would stand up to a 12ga slug. If you decide to get a shot gun, spend a good bit of time on the range with different materials and targets. Learn how it patterns and what it can do with various loads.

That said, I still prefer AR's, AK's and FAL's...I'm more familiar with them and I know how far out I can go. AR15 with a .22lr kit and a G19 would take care of 99.9999999% of everything you are likely to encounter in the lower 48. A .22 will keep you eating a lot better than almost anything else. It is a very versatile round. It fed a lot of folks during the depression - so did 12ga.

If your idea of the apocalypse involves constant gun fights and zombies, then stick with your high speed/ low drag SBR's (I wouldn't mind on though).
If you envision a lot of laying low, hunting, gathering, foraging - then get a 12ga and a .22

BUT

Always keep a high capacity semi auto handgun in a good holster on a good belt with a spare magazine...it is the tool that will save your life - as anemic as handgun rounds are, it still beats the rifle leaning against the tree or sitting in your trunk.

That's a good idea.  Any tube fed .22.  No magazine to lose

Neither am I.

But I'm also not going to stand there pissing in my shoe when the geese, ducks, quail, pheasant, etc. fly past.  I'm also going to be happy should I have the opportunity to find that quail covey on the ground and I can take them all with #8's.  No matter how good your ninja skills, you're kill more game birds if you can hit them on the wing.

There simply is not a better food gathering firearm than a shotgun.

Thanks. And it will feed pretty much any ammo you care to load in it. I've used cb caps to great effect on squirrel- with neighbors less than 100 yards away. They never knew we shot squirrels till my then 5 year old ran her mouth ;)

I'd snare them with line or netting, I wouldn't actively hunt small birds, it wastes time, energy, and ammo with little return. I would pursue waterfowl, but again, I'd snare them, or head shoot geese and ducks on the ground with suppressed .22s.

You do not have that already.

There are plenty of experienced people (myself included) who willingly forego the shotgun.

They shoot bulky, short range ammo. They are civilian designs and are more delicate than military firearms. They have limited capacity. As far as military goes, they were used in VERY limited and specific roles. From a survival standpoint, they are next to usless. Hunting is a piss poor way of getting food, in good times. Look at any catastrophe and what happens to game. It is GONE. To believe you're going to feed yourself shooting birds and rabbits is delusional. Larger game, if it's there, is better taken with a rifle.

There is a reason that, anyone with a choice, chooses a good rifle to depend on, when a general purpose gun is needed.

Respectfully, I think you need to learn a bit more about firearms before explainging the virtues of a particular one, to someone whom you believe knows less than you.

In his defense, a 12ga WAS the only firearm to knock the pig off the hook in Mythbusters "Knockdown Power" segment

I guess the Marine corps should have contacted you before they ordered 20,000 Benelli M4 combat shotguns.

You'd be surprised how many of those Benelli's DON'T go out on combat missions.

How many?

I've been asked variations of this question a few times by aspiring preppers. I break it down like this.

1) Handgun. Most like to least likely - that's our motto right? Well encountering a shady character with ill intent in a gas station parking lot while fueling up the family truckster is exponentially more likely than having fight off Russian paratroopers or roam the suburbs seeking squirrels for sustenance. As a default I'll recommend the Glock, model 17 or 19 depending on which fits the individual's hand better.

2) Semi-auto Carbine. If things get hairy, a semi-automatic carbine is the weapon to have. The AR15 is my standard recommendation. It can handle most defensive situations better than anything else.

And well, that's pretty much it. Buying a weapon for the purpose of taking game is localized - and if it's something that figures into your preps, it's something you should already own and be well versed in the use of already. In other words, if you're a hunter you've already got the right guns for hunting in your area. If you're not a hunter but hunter factors into to your survival plans, you seriously need to re-assess.

As for the specifics of the Glock and AR, that's just a standard rec for folks with no prior experience or predisposition. Prefer the AK? Rock on with it. Grew up shooting grandad's S&W Combat Masterpiece? That makes sense for you.

Of course after doling out this advice I've had guys show up a week later wanting me to check out their $1,200 Saiga 12 or the rocking deal they got on a Llama 1911 clone.

shotguns are retarted. If I'm trying to survive I'll shoot the birds on water/ground. my choices are

1 DPMS Predator AR
2 SAR1
3 Sig 226
4 Marlin 22mag

Most. Same with Army shotguns.

Oh really and now its the Army to?  And your source for this information is?

Spending more than five years of my life on FOBs, COPs, and MITT sites in Iraq and Afghanistan.

I've seen them roll out for breaching, but most were truck guns or carried by inside-the-wire guys. I'm sure a few have gone out as straight up fighting weapons, but that's more the exception than the rule.

I haven't seen anyone mention anything about shotguns being much more politically correct than carbines and full battle rifles.  A 12 gauge is a 12 gauge to the media.  The aren't demonized like "high powered assault rifles with 30 round clips and sniper scopes".

I keep mine for that very reason.

You make me want an AA12 or a Stryker...

You know I consider it pretty rude to come up in someone's thread and insult them, saying they need to learn more about firearms. I've been studying survivalism for 30 years, and I have three safes full of weapons. I'm retired military. I'm a decorated marksman, and I've gunsmithed dozens of rifles, shotguns, and sidearms. I'm pretty sure I know the capabilities of a shotgun.

That said, I'm really sad to think that there are so many people who cant get their head out of the GI Joe gutter. Why does everyone harbor fantasies of engaging in firefights during a SHTF? There is no glory in it, and I see no reason to do it. Ever. Better to evade, and avoid contact with aggressors. Surviving is an art, not a wild west shootout.

Like I said, a shotgun is a tool. I appreciate everyone's input and comment here, but please dont tell me I'm stupid. Present your point and keep it civilized. Avoid declarative statements.

Well put

What's good for the military soldier and what's good for a lone or small group of folks trying to keep what they have and possibly take a little meat if they're lucky, is two different things. There is some overlap, but the goals and roles of the firearm are different for these two circumstances.

There's something to be said for that logic, especially in certain localities.

I'll respectfully answer.

I didn't mean to insult you. I apologize if it's percieved that I was being insulting.

I disagree with several of your points.

There is no such thing as knock down power, with small arms.

00 buck is .33 caliber

We should never rely on intimidation factor. It's a running joke that "All you have to do is rack the slide" to deter bad guys.

A 16" carbine is more manuverable than a 18" shotgun.

Breaching a door seems like an activity for criminals.

These are just my humble opinions (except for the physics and the nominal size points).

Haven't read every post in the thread, but in general I'd agree with the OP. I'd add a couple of things though:

In addition to a .22lr rifle (10/22 is fine), I'd also suggest a .22lr pistol or revolver, for the purpose of working on hand gun marksmanship inexpensively.

The other additional thing would be some sort of Evil Black Rifle (AK, AR, HK, FN, etc). I think the most versatile though, would be an AR type, snce you can have multiple uppers. One upper should be a .22lr one for training purposes.  

.22lr is of limited value in some ways, but when it comes to training, it's quite valuable, simply because it's inexpensive, and practice is _very_ important to marksmanship.

If it's a real Apocalypse, you need to add a Ma Deuce to the list.