Mike's OFFICIAL H&R Retro thread (Page 153 of 158)
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Originally Posted By Dex223: Mike, Now that H&R makes the DOE gun, and a gassed .300 BO version, will there be a semi-auto only M231 coming out maybe next year? Or, at least an upper? Probably not |
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Over 50 and reputed to be a formidable brigand
https://hr1871.com/
Over 50 and reputed to be a formidable brigand
https://hr1871.com/
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Originally Posted By Redhead45: I haven’t been in here for a long time but has there been any mention or any plans for m4a1 carbine property marked lowers? Not for the H&R brand |
We are living in a Tom Clancy novel
Over 50 and reputed to be a formidable brigand
https://hr1871.com/
Over 50 and reputed to be a formidable brigand
https://hr1871.com/
| Do you have any left in inventory at all? Damn I am always a day late a Dollar short, I have been looking around. Everyone is sold out, and I would have thought getting a black retro lower would be difficult anyways thanks for the reply. |
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Originally Posted By 01SVTSnake: Mike, On the 607 uppers, was there a reason for using a slick side upper/non serrated BCG? Most Colt GX marked examples seen have the forward assist upper on them https://www.facebook.com/100063582096772/posts/486287959405894/?mibextid=rS40aB7S9Ucbxw6v http://pullig.dyndns.org/retroblackrifle/ModGde/CrbGde/607.html  Colt 607: The First AR Carbine |
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Originally Posted By PGT_0673: Guessing there's no practical way to tuck a can under there with the FSB You could port the barrel and make a big expansion chamber between the barrel nut and FSB. But we have been discussing the possibility of making an NFA variant. |
We are living in a Tom Clancy novel
Over 50 and reputed to be a formidable brigand
https://hr1871.com/
Over 50 and reputed to be a formidable brigand
https://hr1871.com/
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The update is that there is no progress on this project. The engineers are tied up with PSA stuff. However, we will be bringing the 606 out before the end of the year. 
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We are living in a Tom Clancy novel
Over 50 and reputed to be a formidable brigand
https://hr1871.com/
Over 50 and reputed to be a formidable brigand
https://hr1871.com/
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Originally Posted By mike_nds: The update is that there is no progress on this project. The engineers are tied up with PSA stuff. However, we will be bringing the 606 out before the end of the year. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/91277/IMG_3837-3626714.jpg 
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Been working on my 601/604 "tribute", my first gun build, first gun that isnt inherited. Love od green and slick uppers, thought partial fences look better, and went with an 18" faxon pencil barrel to keep it light, and shorten it up a bit, and added a barnes adjustable gas tube Still missing all my sight hardware and fsb, that I ordered from retro rifles over a month ago (found out thats common), a2 stock as im on the tall side even went for an authentic type reciever extention to get forged 7075, and matching gray. So not a cone but a look alike to my taste. Wanted to do some h&r gray magazines too to be completely gray. Just picked up my lower from my ffl and, Its way way way darker than the upper, super disappointed by it. Its almost as if they sent a black not gray, it wasn't a blem either. Some blem on the anodizing inside Some black lowers for refrence. That gray reciever extention marches the upper well, and contrasts the lower badly I knew about the likelyhoof of some mismatch but I have a feeling i may have been sent a blem black lower. 
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Originally Posted By mike_nds: The update is that there is no progress on this project. The engineers are tied up with PSA stuff. However, we will be bringing the 606 out before the end of the year. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/91277/IMG_3837-3626714.jpg Awwwwww, fuck yeah!!!! |
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Originally Posted By MadMax66: Mike, is the HR51655160556 (635 9mm Complete Lower) compatible with the 51655104635 (PSA Gen4 10.5" 9mm 1/10 Nitride 9" Lightweight M-lok Railed Upper)? You may have to adjust the ejector to get it to work |
We are living in a Tom Clancy novel
Over 50 and reputed to be a formidable brigand
https://hr1871.com/
Over 50 and reputed to be a formidable brigand
https://hr1871.com/
|
Originally Posted By mike_nds: We copied a set of USGI handguards I found on gunbroker. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/91277/IMG_4083-3680517.jpg That's exactly what I wanted to see. 
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Originally Posted By Englertracing: well unfortunately it gets even worse, a full 0.035" misalignment of the upper and lower https://www.pinkbike.com/photo/29161026/ https://www.pinkbike.com/photo/29161025/ https://www.pinkbike.com/photo/29161024/ you are nit picking now. most uppers and lowers are a bit out of alignment and most will wobble also, unless you have a matched set (which you do not). if you want the colors to be a perfect match, send it to a cerakote place and have them match the colors. But look at pics of the rifles in the service and you will see they are not color matched at all. I sent one of my H&R sets off to a buddy to have them color matched because they (H&R) didnt have grey in stock at the time and its what i wanted. Maybe you can do the same? 
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I'm a machinist. I work in 0.001" and sometimes 0.0001" 0.03937 is a whole ass mm, no wobble or slop firmly off center. Rear takedown pin boss is visually off center in the upper reciever. What exactly are you trying to say constitutes as a set? If a company makes an upper and a lower They are forged seperate, then fixtured and machined separately, and anodized separately At no point were they the same piece of material (they arent one forging thats cut or broken like a fractured cap connecting rod) all are equally qualified to be called a set or not a set. Also, cerakote is lame In my world aluminum is to have a hard oxide layer as a protectant aka hard anodizing, end of story, no paint. Its not a mismatch im almost certain my lower reciever was part of a black batch that made its way into a gray box or bin, accidently or not. |
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Originally Posted By panzersergeant: I got these from H&R a couple of weeks ago. Very nice quality. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/25872/IMG_9576-3625454.jpg Wow those look great Can you post a shot from top view and from rear view showing upper to lower reciever alignment? |
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Originally Posted By Englertracing: I'm a machinist. I work in 0.001" and sometimes 0.0001" 0.03937 is a whole ass mm, no wobble or slop firmly off center. Rear takedown pin boss is visually off center in the upper reciever. What exactly constitutes a set? If a company makes an upper and a lower They are forged seperate, then fixtured and machined separately, and anodized separately At no point were they the same piece of material (they arent one forging thats cut or broken like a fractured cap connecting rod) all are equally qualified to be called a set or not a set. Also, cerakote is lame In my world aluminum is to have a hard oxide layer as a protectant aka hard anodizing, end of story, no paint. Its not a mismatch im almost certain my lower reciever was part of a black batch that made its way into a gray box or bin, accidently or not. You should probably get an SP1 since you want a 601/604, the earlier ones match and fit better. (Although I have 11 SP1s and none are a perfect match.) In "my world" cerakote can look good on the receivers and the furniture, and it holds up great, even to acetone. I've made the Nodak and H&R products work and am very happy with them, some were perfect. Anodizing varies between and within batches, that's well established. I'm not a machinist though, I just channel the Filipino jungle gunsmith within me and make shit work!     
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Every picture you are posting matches better and probably has better alignment. Can you post some shots from above with the charging handle pulled? All of your guns look great btw But im just absolutely not interested in cerakote. Re the colt sp1, some things arent so simple in the communist republic of California. https://www.pinkbike.com/photo/29162480/ Have a whole gallon of cerakote right here Just not interested in that.... |
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My point of those pics is that you can match cerakote pretty well to anything. I did all of those with an airbrush and trial and error. I just went down to check alignments of my builds and SP1s. I never paid attention to this and was surprised how inconsistent it is. My SP1s upper receiver's alignment to the lower: 64- even 65- even 66- upper receiver offset to the left 67- even 67- offset to the right 68-offset to the left a lot ( a lot being 1mm or more) 69- offset to the left a lot 69- even 71- offset to the left 74-even 76-offset to the left a lot My 6 clone builds vary too. I used different 80% receivers with some new and original uppers. A couple are even. It seems to me that Colt had a lot of slop, so that is good enough for me on my builds. Speaking of slop, my 71 SP1 looks like it got road rash and was anodized over it. They also used a black paint pen to glob over the roll pin "oopsies" on several others. You can also lighten anodizing by soaking in a phosphoric acid mix. Ospho or ice machine cleaner. Sorry you can't get an SP1 there. A couple of mine came from CA according to the archives. |
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Originally Posted By gurn-blanston: My point of those pics is that you can match cerakote pretty well to anything. I did all of those with an airbrush and trial and error. I just went down to check alignments of my builds and SP1s. I never paid attention to this and was surprised how inconsistent it is. My SP1s upper receiver's alignment to the lower: 64- even 65- even 66- upper receiver offset to the left 67- even 67- offset to the right 68-offset to the left a lot ( a lot being 1mm or more) 69- offset to the left a lot 69- even 71- offset to the left 74-even 76-offset to the left a lot My 6 clone builds vary too. I used different 80% receivers with some new and original uppers. A couple are even. It seems to me that Colt had a lot of slop, so that is good enough for me on my builds. Speaking of slop, my 71 SP1 looks like it got road rash and was anodized over it. They also used a black paint pen to glob over the roll pin "oopsies" on several others. You can also lighten anodizing by soaking in a phosphoric acid mix. Ospho or ice machine cleaner. Sorry you can't get an SP1 there. A couple of mine came from CA according to the archives. Well id have to describe mine as upper offset alot Lower definently from a black batch Lightening anodizing with a caustic is a problem for me too its against my "engineering religion" I've also had some experience with stripping and replating in industrial and racing applications with some resulting in some pretty horrific dimension changes. Im not going to have 12 of these... This is e,f,g or h hobby stuff Have problems with too many motorcycles, mountain bikes and race cars, cant be doing that with these too This gun will remain pristine shot occasionally for the next 50 or 60 years, just the way grandpa's 94 22m has been kept since the 60s. |
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Originally Posted By neight: @gurn-blanston Gurn!!!! What is this under folder wearin exposed gas tube and gizmomitry contraption with the green furniture?! @neight That is my clone of a GX5859, it was submitted with others like the 607 (GX 5857) in Feb of 1965 to the Army. I used an ARic self contained BCG for function, ( the top tube isnt functional) The H&R upper had to get cut, but it works great. Here's a link to the Info: 1965 SAWS trials  The pics are before I milled it, I have it set up as a pistol right now, waiting on a form 1.  Pistol:  |
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Originally Posted By Englertracing: Well id have to describe mine as upper offset alot Lower definently from a black batch Lightening anodizing with a caustic is a problem for me too its against my "engineering religion" I've also had some experience with stripping and replating in industrial and racing applications with some resulting in some pretty horrific dimension changes. Im not going to have 12 of these... This is e,f,g or h hobby stuff Have problems with too many motorcycles, mountain bikes and race cars, cant be doing that with these too This gun will remain pristine shot occasionally for the next 50 or 60 years, just the way grandpa's 94 22m has been kept since the 60s. Looking at your offset pics, the ones I noted as "a lot" look worse than yours. And those are factory guns. I understand you wanting a perfect match, but I don't have any other ideas other than sending it back, but I don't know what California rules are. |
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The way this happens is the forging doesn't go into the fixture straight and the first machine operations performed take on any error in fixturing, and usually any second operations (if there are any) fixture off of surfaces machined in the first operation. In production shops I've been in first piece goes theough rigorous QC in the inspection shop, if found ok the the batch can run, and the machine operator measures critical dimensions of each part between loading and unloading the machine, and depending on many things, customer request, history, tight tolerances, high material value, every x number like say 10th part is taken to the inspection shop. An error of 0.040" would be stop production, check indication of the fixture, inspect tooling, etc, when problem is found and identified Run one part for inspection before resuming production. If I had parts like these coming out wildly inconsistent I would make a new fixture to solve that issue. |
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Originally Posted By Englertracing: The way this happens is the forging doesn't go into the fixture straight and the first machine operations performed take on any error in fixturing, and usually any second operations (if there are any) fixture off of surfaces machined in the first operation. In production shops I've been in first piece goes theough rigorous QC in the inspection shop, if found ok the the batch can run, and the machine operator measures critical dimensions of each part between loading and unloading the machine, and depending on many things, customer request, history, tight tolerances, high material value, every x number like say 10th part is taken to the inspection shop. An error of 0.040" would be stop production, check indication of the fixture, inspect tooling, etc, when problem is found and identified Run one part for inspection before resuming production. If I had parts like these coming out wildly inconsistent I would make a new fixture to solve that issue. Well, from my samples, it looks like the problem started in 1966. Or maybe it wasn't ever considered a problem. You should probably get 3 of your best guys on it and spearhead that initiative. God speed. |
My OCD gets triggered all the time too. However, Anchor Harvey told me that the forgings have a +/- .020”-.030” tolerance for the outside dimensions. And in the 20 years I’ve been doing this, the uppers are almost always wider than the lower in the FC area. Ya just gotta let it go or make them out of billet |
We are living in a Tom Clancy novel
Over 50 and reputed to be a formidable brigand
https://hr1871.com/
Over 50 and reputed to be a formidable brigand
https://hr1871.com/
|
I haven't perused this thread in a while, so soory if this is a repeat. 1. What ink do you use for the Eagle stamp on the lowers? 2. Can you please make a pistol length triagle handguard? Thank you for your attention to this matter :D |
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Originally Posted By mike_nds: My OCD gets triggered all the time too. However, Anchor Harvey told me that the forgings have a +/- .020”-.030” tolerance for the outside dimensions. And in the 20 years I’ve been doing this, the uppers are almost always wider than the lower in the FC area. Ya just gotta let it go or make them out of billet Yeah well, this one isnt wider on the upper Upper measures 1.388" at the widest part Lower measures 1.394" The offset of 0.035 to the right is greater than the stated tolerance of +/- 0.020" to 0.030" The upper runs to the right along the length of the lower tapering from front to rear and you can see it all the way. Its like that on another lower as well. And my lower, well im still sure its a black blem I ordered a non blem, grey. In the religion of engineering forgings are always preferable to billet as there will be more contagious uninterrupted grains running the length of the part. "Thou shall always choose a forging when avaliable even when full surface profiling will be done." |