User Panel
Posted: 3/3/2017 3:20:41 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Forest]
A shame, but maybe they were banking on a Clinton presidency?
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2017/03/03/breaking-colt-lays-off-custom-shop-director-employees-company-rumored-gutted/ |
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9 lives - 9 pellets... Coincidence?
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I feel bad for the workers, but I've always viewed Colt as the narcissist of the gun industry.
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Don't mess with the ants. They're well armed, they shoot straight, and there's more of them than you can imagine.
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Kind of sad to see, but after learning about their history it seem right in line with recent history.
Colt History - Forgotten Weapons |
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Colt's poor quality control reminds me of Detroit iron of the '70's and early '80's. "You will buy what we make and like it!" After all who would buy one of those cheap Japanese cars. Toyota? Nissan? Honda? No way! Sorry Colt but you have always been your own worst problem.
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They go through the whole layoff thing pretty often.
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Originally Posted By MILSPEC556:
They go through the whole layoff thing pretty often. View Quote I hope this is the case, but I don't see how they can keep rebounding, especially with their current quality control issues. I would love to see someone buy them out and start focusing on the civilian market and quit worrying about getting government contracts. |
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Originally Posted By Red127:
Mismanagement and resting on their laurels likely the biggest reasons for problems. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By Red127:
Originally Posted By Tom-from-Michigan:
I feel bad for the workers, but I've always viewed Colt as the narcissist of the gun industry. Mismanagement and resting on their laurels likely the biggest reasons for problems. Same reason I still refuse to buy Leupold. |
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Interesting to hear some were laid off....but not for the reasons I heard. My take on the layoffs is Colt is looking to turn themselves around and become better service oriented. The Colt custom shop has a reputation for taking "forever" to get the custom work done and out. Sometimes years for certain custom orders. The grape vine tells me these layoffs were in order and meant to bring in the right people to ensure the custom work is out with in months to weeks...not years. I understand the overall sentiment at the various divisions is upbeat and promising.
In order to compete in this new environment "post Trump win" companies need to adapt...without doing so, you go under. In the last 8 years how many gun related companies have gone under? Exactly! Its time a lot of the bloated companies make due with what is the new reality...time to downsize and become more efficient and profitable. Getting back to Colt...the expanse has been a good product for them, although not an engineering feat, it is profitable and a good product for those looking to enter the AR market. I hear Colt has sold more Expanse rifles in the short time they have been around, than the 6920 has in the last 3 years. Mismanagement of any company will run it into the ground. The vultures, known as venture capitalists did such a thing with Colt. I hope, going forward, they learn the errorin their ways and stay lean, profitable, and in business. |
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Colt's business model is based on a planned bankruptcy everytime they are eligible to legally file again. Anyone watching for any length of time will easily see this. That's all part of their plan.
I like and recommend Colt 1911's and AR-15's. They are quality firearms that have stood the test of time. |
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Originally Posted By renov8:
Interesting to hear some were laid off....but not for the reasons I heard. My take on the layoffs is Colt is looking to turn themselves around and become better service oriented. The Colt custom shop has a reputation for taking "forever" to get the custom work done and out. Sometimes years for certain custom orders. The grape vine tells me these layoffs were in order and meant to bring in the right people to ensure the custom work is out with in months to weeks...not years. View Quote Not sure laying folks off in the custom shop will improve speed. Other comments I've seen mention how hard it is to get gunsmiths to move to Connecticut to work there. Really I think they're going to trim out doing individual custom work once they catch up and just focus on distributor special runs, but that's just me. They also seem to have trimmed out some Colt Canada folks and some other R&D folks. I think they realized they were just pouring money trying to chase contracts they couldn't get. A shame since Colt Canada actually seemed to be more in touch with militaries needs. Not ours, but a lot of Euro's use their stuff, and handicapping them just sends those customers to FN or HK, IMO. |
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Originally Posted By NightOwl:
They also seem to have trimmed out some Colt Canada folks and some other R&D folks. I think they realized they were just pouring money trying to chase contracts they couldn't get. A shame since Colt Canada actually seemed to be more in touch with militaries needs. Not ours, but a lot of Euro's use their stuff, and handicapping them just sends those customers to FN or HK, IMO. View Quote Colt Canada is not being decimated or trimmed out as the rumor mill seems to indicate...They are doing just fine and are still making arms for the CF and European countries.... |
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Originally Posted By Red127:
Mismanagement and resting on their laurels likely the biggest reasons for problems. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By Red127:
Originally Posted By Tom-from-Michigan:
I feel bad for the workers, but I've always viewed Colt as the narcissist of the gun industry. Mismanagement and resting on their laurels likely the biggest reasons for problems. Let's face it, the entire firearms industry, including optics and other accessories, is a serial offender on that. They do in spans of 5 and 10 and 20 years what many companies in other industries would have done in months. There are a lot of huge egos and inflexible dinosaurs bent on doing things the old way who are ripe for being driven out of business by building a better mousetrap as well. I work in the tech industry. If you got a Steve Jobs or Elon Musk type who is into guns and understands the whole widget, put him in charge, and applied our business models, patent acquisition schemes, and iterative improvement schedules to firearms technologies, I guarantee you you'd have one of two outcomes within five years: 1. Colt would run out of capital and be bankrupt due to R&D costs and we're back where we started 2. Colt would have acquired LMT, Geissele, Trijicon, and possibly KAC for access to their designs and patent portfolios, and then gutted them except for their most skilled labor and engineers/machinists and production lines to keep their existing cashflow moving. We'd shortly have an overhauled 21st century AR with top-down first-party solutions for the entire thing, optics on down. It would be out the door and ready for a fat military contract from Trump's expansion of the military, and optimized, modern lean manufacturing would have the products out the door with consistent quality in a timely fashion. After which Colt turns into the American version of the Beretta Defense Technologies juggernaut, but with much better management and an intent to aggressively capitalize on civilian sales that can be driven up through positive press on the new military hardware. And unlike all of the "Bob's Second Amendment Garage-Built Guns" we have out there right now (respect to you guys but you're never going to build the 4th gen AR that makes FN and HK sit down and shut up), you have the established brand capital of Colt to make changes like that with and make them stick. Really, the small arms industry has been ripe for a massive shake-up since the turn of the millennium, and ESPECIALLY the past 5-10 years. But there's a total lack of a convergence of capital with quality leadership who have a combination of business sense, intense drive, and understanding of the whole widget from the top down. So like the computer and rocket markets, you have the Dells and HPs content to put out overpriced beige boxes till kingdom come and boutique makers gouge enthusiasts for marginally better hardware, or ULA and Arianespace content to milk their existing market until 2200 with a tiny trickle of innovation once every decade or so. |
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lot of fake news and early grave dancing in here
a few guys from the not making enough money custom shop got laid off This was know since later last week. The industry is slow and there is a lot of product slowly selling. this was not "gutting" You guys are reading a bunch of the typical "colt is dead yippe!" bullshit going around with little facts Inside dope is, things are fine, lay offs happen. business as usual despite what the obama lover at TFB says to the contrary |
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shikata ga nai Kiken, Kitsui, Kitanai
Armalite of today is not the original. It's eagle arms and trying to fool you Colt. over 50 years of combat, the real thing www.looserounds.com |
Originally Posted By Shawnmt6601:
lot of fake news and early grave dancing in here a few guys from the not making enough money custom shop got laid off This was know since later last week. The industry is slow and there is a lot of product slowly selling. this was not "gutting" You guys are reading a bunch of the typical "colt is dead yippe!" bullshit going around with little facts Inside dope is, things are fine, lay offs happen. business as usual despite what the obama lover at TFB says to the contrary View Quote There are lot of bandwagons on this site....nice to see some who have not sipped the Koolaid. |
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Happwns every fes years. Colt is top heavy with zero innovation. They look down their nose and sell to civilians only because they have no big .gov contracts.
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Most of what I hear is speculation or the old story line of how Colt thumbs their nose at the civilian market. That might have been true to some extent back then, but not any more. The info I am getting is...they know they have to be competitive to stay profitable. The Expanse, albeit not my cup of tea, has been a huge success for them. As I stated earlier, the Expanse has outsold the 6920 in the short time it has been around over the last three years the 6920 has been selling...impressive.
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Originally Posted By renov8:
Most of what I hear is speculation or the old story line of how Colt thumbs their nose at the civilian market. That might have been true to some extent back then, but not any more. The info I am getting is...they know they have to be competitive to stay profitable. The Expanse, albeit not my cup of tea, has been a huge success for them. As I stated earlier, the Expanse has outsold the 6920 in the short time it has been around over the last three years the 6920 has been selling...impressive. View Quote Yeah, years ago when I worked at a gunshop, I used to hear folks telling me how Colt didn't sell to civilians. "Well, we have a bunch in stock, you better buy them quick then!" Don't get me wrong, they may have been true at some point in Colt's history, but not within the past 20 years. Same way Ruger may have never wanted any mini14 20 round mags on the market, but now they're selling them, along with 25 rd 10-22's and even making their own AR! I don't know the full extent of the layoffs, only that Brent was let go and he's a top notch guy who fixed many Colt errors. He was head of the custom shop, which is now not taking new orders in order to reduce backlog from 18-24 months, theoretically. |
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I sent in a series 70 repro and sent it to Colt to have it get the Colt royal blue finish. Was in direct contact with Brent several times. He is a top notch guy and was very helpful fixing a couple problems.
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Originally Posted By borderpatrol:
Colt's business model is based on a planned bankruptcy everytime they are eligible to legally file again. Anyone watching for any length of time will easily see this. That's all part of their plan. I like and recommend Colt 1911's and AR-15's. They are quality firearms that have stood the test of time. View Quote |
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Colt has reduced the prices on the 6920 and a couple of their commander pistols...6920 has a new MSRP od 999.00 and the Commanders of 899.00
Lets hope with the drop in price we don't see a drop in quality. |
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I had a phone interview 2 yrs ago for the Custom Shop Mgr position. I ended it when the HR Mgr said the starting salary was $60k a year. I told him I couldn't live in CT on that low of a salary.
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Wow ! That’s incredibly low.
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Maybe Brownells should buy them.
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"All welchers should be removed from the EE"-Aimless
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To start, Colt needs to move out of Connecticut. Iowa would be nice.
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"All welchers should be removed from the EE"-Aimless
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IIRC their union agreement will not let them leave the state.
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Originally Posted By azcheesehead:
IIRC their union agreement will not let them leave the state. View Quote Moving would be the best move...no pun intended. And make it a non union job. |
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Originally Posted By Hexxus: Hell yeah, and fill it full of illegal Mexicans like Bear Creek so they can churn out the highest quality products. Fuck yeah. View Quote Maybe let real Americans with trade skills make the money instead of the union bosses with their corrupt ways and inflated union dues, not to mention the cracked policies they force their members to participate in, just to keep their privileges if work should elude them for to long...just saying. |
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Originally Posted By renov8: Way to go there bubba...yu speaky inglis vedy guud. Maybe let real Americans with trade skills make the money... View Quote |
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Damn! Zombie thread! (Necro thread)
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valheru21:"The argument, "this gun won't go down in value," is used to convince the wife that you are not making a bad financial decision when purchasing a firearm. You're not ACTUALLY supposed to ever sell the gun."
Matt |
I’m guessing the Brass like being in close proximity to Manhattan.
Isn’t there a Manhattan somewhere near Iowa? |
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Originally Posted By Hexxus: You're gravely mistaken or seriously unintelligent if you think that's what's going to happen if they de-unionize. When a company is laying off and outsourcing, they aren't going to pay "real Americans with trade skills" more money than the people working there now. They are going to cut wages and slash benefits and retirements to try to raise profit margins. View Quote Pretty sure you are the one that is unintelligent here when it pertains to running a business and being profitable... |
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Originally Posted By Ar-15TechGuy: Which is what makes actual sense when the union contracts are raping your company into bankruptcy. Pretty sure you are the one that is unintelligent here when it pertains to running a business and being profitable... View Quote Labor Board Union Decertification |
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Originally Posted By Hexxus: Ok, genius, so what "real American with trade skills" is going to go to work for a company that has no incentives to work there, has low pay, no retirement, no incentive to promote up, and no benefits? No one. If it's so bad and the Union is raping everyone's pockets with dues and fees, the employees have an option to decertify their Union and opt to go without one or elect a new one. Labor Board Union Decertification View Quote I know plenty of companies that are non Union and pay handsomely...to their machinists and the guy who are "in-training". Unions are passe...they used to provide a good service and represent their members...now they are stealing from the pensions, paying themselves exorbitant salaries, not to mention bonuses and all the side bennies one could dream of. Just because you write something and post a link to it, doesn't make it true...it makes you desperate to make your point with someone elses words. |
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Originally Posted By renov8: You make it sound so easy to "decertify" a Union...until the thugs come in and start cracking heads. I used to do Environmentla work, cleaning up contaminated sights...my own business. I never did any Union jobs because of one event which happened on a non union site...I had to hire two Union thugs to work for the duration of the job. I could do nothing without asking for permssion to use my OWN equipment. I couldn't start my jobs at 7am unless there was a thug on site. I had to pay back wages for the two days I didn't have the two thugs "working" for me. Does that sound like the kind of work environment you want to work in or even try to turn a profit in? NO! I know plenty of companies that are non Union and pay handsomely...to their machinists and the guy who are "in-training". Unions are passe...they used to provide a good service and represent their members...now they are stealing from the pensions, paying themselves exorbitant salaries, not to mention bonuses and all the side bennies one could dream of. Just because you write something and post a link to it, doesn't make it true...it makes you desperate to make your point with someone elses words. View Quote |
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Originally Posted By Hexxus: We decertified two Unions at my place of employment in the 13 years I've been there. So, yeah, got a pretty good idea what I'm talking about. Since you're a non-Union man I'm sure you can speak from all that experience of decertifying and fighting Unions. Sounds like you just let a Union come in and push you, the little guy, around and you're sour about it. The one thing we can agree on is that Unions are shit. I'm now stuck under one of the biggest political and corrupt Unions in the country who just got raped by Janus vs. AFSCME and it was glorious. We were forced to pay Union dues whether we were members or not. Now, the courts took that away and AFSCME I'd hurting for money. We decertified two other Democrat-backed Unions when favor was for Republican backed, now the political pendulum swung the other way and it'll be hard to get this one out when most of the membership are now Democrats. If the Unions are hurting Colt so bad, Colt has legal options on the table right now due to precedence set forth in recent legislation. View Quote I think we agree more than disagree, just different experiences from the same coin. I have many friends who were Union guys their entire lives. One guy was so pissed off when he was not hired to do a job, happened to stop by the site and noticed a whole bunch of illegals doing much of the menial work...of course paying Union dues, even though he found out later they were not Union. Union chanrged Union wages, of course. He threatened to go public, inless they gave him his entire pension and promise to keep his trap shut...win, win, if you want to call it that. Colt needs to get out of the hedge fund business. its not only ruined their reputation, but its showing by the lackluster product they put out with that cheap version of an AR....if you can even call it that. I am a Colt fan, just not a dirt bag corporatist/hedge fund/Union fan...greed kills good businesses. |
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Is the “cheap version of an AR” the Expanse line?
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Originally Posted By Siam4a1:
Is the “cheap version of an AR” the Expanse line? View Quote Many Expanse guns were built with standard Colt components. Many 6920s were labeled/sold as Expanse towards the end of the Expanse run. |
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"All welchers should be removed from the EE"-Aimless
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Originally Posted By Hexxus:
If the Unions are hurting Colt so bad, Colt has legal options on the table right now due to precedence set forth in recent legislation. View Quote The fund manager stuff is hurting a lot of companies, Colt has had issues for years due to it and now I see the Ellet/ Acusport company had a similar "lets take out loans, then give ourselves a bonus, then declare bankruptcy" episode. |
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Colt can only survive by pulling a Winchester….fire everyone, close, wait a few years, open up in a free state.
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Can't never could 'til try came along.
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Thought I was seeing things! Revived thread is still massively misinformed.
Now that CZ owns Colt, get ready to see a move to breathe new life into the company and a turn back to commercial sales. CZ is no stranger to the market and knows Colts brand power. I expect good things to come as long as we still have a firearms industry. |
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Norcal Call sign: Sly
“Everything woke turns to shit!” DJT |
Originally Posted By FedDC: Colt can only survive by pulling a Winchester….fire everyone, close, wait a few years, open up in a free state. View Quote Japan? |
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Colt workers still UAW?
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