User Panel
Crow, the breakfast of champions
Would the Sirs (Magpul and Bushmaster...) prefer their servings with or without feathers. |
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yes, yes I can say you were wrong. It's 700 more than what you said and you never mentioned an enhanced version for 1100 more either. Not to mention the fact that Bushmaster had on there website a contact for the ACR who I "actually" called and spoke to about the progress and price. And who did mention it was likely to be slightly more expensive than initial estimates due to development changes. But that it would "top out" somewhere between 15-1700 So here's your cookie http://whoremotional.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/douche.gif $485.00 more at the time MAGPUL was still quoting around $1500.00. Oh, slightly more expensive? That fucker doubled. |
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someone is excessively vain... ????? Oh never mind... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bushmaster_ACR Availability
The ACR is currently slated to be available in 2nd Quarter 2010 for military, government and commercial customers. The ACR will be available in greater quantity (tens of thousands) in the commercial marketplace in 2010 [9]. According to an official press release from Bushmaster, the rifle will have suggested retail price between $2,685 - $ 3,061.00[10] - twice as much as early price quotes of "around $1500". Semi-automatic versions will be available to the commercial market from Bushmaster, and selective-fire versions available for military and law enforcement under the Remington name.[11] As of October 2009, Bushmaster has announced that several consumer versions of the ACR would be available in the first half of 2010. [12] Tens of thousands starting at only $1500.00 $2,685.00!!! |
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So the video states that they didn't cut corners but we get 1/9 twist barrels and a nitrite finish rather than something like melonite or IONBond...let alone chrome-lining.
I really wouldn't mind the crazy price if it was as cutting edge as the BM guy states. Hell, had they just used 1/7 twist barrels, coated the gun in a high-end finish like IONBond, included a Magpul sling, 10 PMAGs, an AFG, and a nice Magpul gun case I'd consider the price. |
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I don't see the point in beating a dead horse. I canceled my pre-order and decided to forget the ACR and move on. With some of the new products coming out for AR's, hell, I might even give up on all of these wonder rifles all together now. Sadly, I think RRA's new side charging, buffer tubeless, gas piston upper is the most exciting thing I've seen yet. No offense to RRA, but I think it's bad when they're the only people who can even half ass'edly deliver what it is that people want. And I don't see why you're ragging on Magpul. Obviously they had/have nothing to do with the ACR program at all other than making the plastic. They made a business deal and got the money they were promised, so even if they did care that Bushmaster pissed all over everyone they can't do shit about it anyways. Hell, I give it two years before Magpul doesn't make any of the ACR's parts anyways. If anything, Magpul deserves sympathy for either making a huge mistake that hopefully they learn from, or for getting the hot beef injection from Cerberus. I don't have any sympathy for Magpul. They are the ones who licensed it to Bushmaster. They're the ones who hyped it to the world. They're the ones who gave us the price point and when they expected it to reach market. They're the ones who told us to be patient because this would be, to use Steve Jobs' words, "The next great thing". It's beyond me how they could have been so wrong on so much, yet so closely associated with the project. |
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someone is excessively vain... ????? Oh never mind... http://photos-g.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs233.snc3/22070_260587534639_826344639_3180048_3981316_n.jpg http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bushmaster_ACR Availability
The ACR is currently slated to be available in 2nd Quarter 2010 for military, government and commercial customers. The ACR will be available in greater quantity (tens of thousands) in the commercial marketplace in 2010 [9]. According to an official press release from Bushmaster, the rifle will have suggested retail price between $2,685 - $ 3,061.00[10] - twice as much as early price quotes of "around $1500". Semi-automatic versions will be available to the commercial market from Bushmaster, and selective-fire versions available for military and law enforcement under the Remington name.[11] As of October 2009, Bushmaster has announced that several consumer versions of the ACR would be available in the first half of 2010. [12] Tens of thousands starting at only $1500.00 $2,685.00!!! Most people don't create threads about themselves boasting about something so trivial. You only make yourself look self-centered and arrogant. So what of you're right, there are more dignified ways of showing it instead of being as vain and childish as you are. |
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someone is excessively vain... ????? Oh never mind... http://photos-g.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs233.snc3/22070_260587534639_826344639_3180048_3981316_n.jpg http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bushmaster_ACR Availability
The ACR is currently slated to be available in 2nd Quarter 2010 for military, government and commercial customers. The ACR will be available in greater quantity (tens of thousands) in the commercial marketplace in 2010 [9]. According to an official press release from Bushmaster, the rifle will have suggested retail price between $2,685 - $ 3,061.00[10] - twice as much as early price quotes of "around $1500". Semi-automatic versions will be available to the commercial market from Bushmaster, and selective-fire versions available for military and law enforcement under the Remington name.[11] As of October 2009, Bushmaster has announced that several consumer versions of the ACR would be available in the first half of 2010. [12] Tens of thousands starting at only $1500.00 $2,685.00!!! Most people don't create threads about themselves boasting about something so trivial. You only make yourself look self-centered and arrogant. So what of you're right, there are more dignified ways of showing it instead of being as vain and childish as you are. Excuse me if I don't post a thread asking about what brand of underwear that Chris Costa wears.... As far as being self-centered and arrogant. Perhaps you should read those MAGPUL quotes once again...Better yet, do a search, and see how many times MAGPUL accused other members of talking out of their ass when the price was speculated of being higher. Then you can decide who was being self-centered and arrogant. |
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I don't see the point in beating a dead horse. I canceled my pre-order and decided to forget the ACR and move on. With some of the new products coming out for AR's, hell, I might even give up on all of these wonder rifles all together now. Sadly, I think RRA's new side charging, buffer tubeless, gas piston upper is the most exciting thing I've seen yet. No offense to RRA, but I think it's bad when they're the only people who can even half ass'edly deliver what it is that people want. And I don't see why you're ragging on Magpul. Obviously they had/have nothing to do with the ACR program at all other than making the plastic. They made a business deal and got the money they were promised, so even if they did care that Bushmaster pissed all over everyone they can't do shit about it anyways. Hell, I give it two years before Magpul doesn't make any of the ACR's parts anyways. If anything, Magpul deserves sympathy for either making a huge mistake that hopefully they learn from, or for getting the hot beef injection from Cerberus. I don't have any sympathy for Magpul. They are the ones who licensed it to Bushmaster. They're the ones who hyped it to the world. They're the ones who gave us the price point and when they expected it to reach market. They're the ones who told us to be patient because this would be, to use Steve Jobs' words, "The next great thing". It's beyond me how they could have been so wrong on so much, yet so closely associated with the project. Plus 2685! This is worth a few laughs... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kgbOuMgoh8E |
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Sad that the price is so high... I probably would have gotten one for the original quoted prices... No way in hell I'm dropping 2500+ on bare bones weapon that has a less then ideal barrel/finish.
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someone is excessively vain... ????? Oh never mind... http://photos-g.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs233.snc3/22070_260587534639_826344639_3180048_3981316_n.jpg http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bushmaster_ACR Availability
The ACR is currently slated to be available in 2nd Quarter 2010 for military, government and commercial customers. The ACR will be available in greater quantity (tens of thousands) in the commercial marketplace in 2010 [9]. According to an official press release from Bushmaster, the rifle will have suggested retail price between $2,685 - $ 3,061.00[10] - twice as much as early price quotes of "around $1500". Semi-automatic versions will be available to the commercial market from Bushmaster, and selective-fire versions available for military and law enforcement under the Remington name.[11] As of October 2009, Bushmaster has announced that several consumer versions of the ACR would be available in the first half of 2010. [12] Tens of thousands starting at only $1500.00 $2,685.00!!! Most people don't create threads about themselves boasting about something so trivial. You only make yourself look self-centered and arrogant. So what of you're right, there are more dignified ways of showing it instead of being as vain and childish as you are. Excuse me if I don't post a thread asking about what brand of underwear that Chris Costa wears.... As far as being self-centered and arrogant. Perhaps you should read those MAGPUL quotes once again...Better yet, do a search, and see how many times MAGPUL accused other members of talking out of their ass when the price was speculated of being higher. Then you can decide who was being self-centered and arrogant. I never said a damn thing about you being wrong about the ACR nor did I say anything about you posting something off-topic in the Magpul forum. I'm talking about how you are being overly proud(vain if you didn't figure out what that meant already) of your "OMG I KNEW TEH PRICE OF THE ACR BEFORE EVERYONE ELSE! I MUST TELL TEH INTERNET OMGZ!" thread and that you have created another thread dedicated to your little "victory" because you proved to the people who didn't believe you wrong. You are still the self-centered and arrogant one here. I'm pretty sure Magpul DOES KNOW more than most people about prices so I would trust their word. This time, it was Bushmaster who decided the price and screwed everyone over and it even looks like they didn't even tell Magpul about it. If you don't like the price, bitching about it on the internet is not going to do anything, just don't buy the damn thing and they will get the message. I don't see how Magpul could be self-centered or arrogant when they create products that are innovative and cost effective for the people who really need them. |
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someone is excessively vain... ????? Oh never mind... http://photos-g.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs233.snc3/22070_260587534639_826344639_3180048_3981316_n.jpg http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bushmaster_ACR Availability
The ACR is currently slated to be available in 2nd Quarter 2010 for military, government and commercial customers. The ACR will be available in greater quantity (tens of thousands) in the commercial marketplace in 2010 [9]. According to an official press release from Bushmaster, the rifle will have suggested retail price between $2,685 - $ 3,061.00[10] - twice as much as early price quotes of "around $1500". Semi-automatic versions will be available to the commercial market from Bushmaster, and selective-fire versions available for military and law enforcement under the Remington name.[11] As of October 2009, Bushmaster has announced that several consumer versions of the ACR would be available in the first half of 2010. [12] Tens of thousands starting at only $1500.00 $2,685.00!!! Most people don't create threads about themselves boasting about something so trivial. You only make yourself look self-centered and arrogant. So what of you're right, there are more dignified ways of showing it instead of being as vain and childish as you are. Excuse me if I don't post a thread asking about what brand of underwear that Chris Costa wears.... As far as being self-centered and arrogant. Perhaps you should read those MAGPUL quotes once again...Better yet, do a search, and see how many times MAGPUL accused other members of talking out of their ass when the price was speculated of being higher. Then you can decide who was being self-centered and arrogant. I never said a damn thing about you being wrong about the ACR nor did I say anything about you posting something off-topic in the Magpul forum. I'm talking about how you are being overly proud(vain if you didn't figure out what that meant already) of your "OMG I KNEW TEH PRICE OF THE ACR BEFORE EVERYONE ELSE! I MUST TELL TEH INTERNET OMGZ!" thread and that you have created another thread dedicated to your little "victory" because you proved to the people who didn't believe you wrong. You are still the self-centered and arrogant one here. I'm pretty sure Magpul DOES KNOW more than most people about prices so I would trust their word. This time, it was Bushmaster who decided the price and screwed everyone over and it even looks like they didn't even tell Magpul about it. If you don't like the price, bitching about it on the internet is not going to do anything, just don't buy the damn thing and they will get the message. I don't see how Magpul could be self-centered or arrogant when they create products that are innovative and cost effective for the people who really need them. I think you're just pissed off that he was right, and he's still right in showing what was said for the record, QFT as its often eloquently put. |
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someone is excessively vain... ????? Oh never mind... http://photos-g.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs233.snc3/22070_260587534639_826344639_3180048_3981316_n.jpg http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bushmaster_ACR Availability
The ACR is currently slated to be available in 2nd Quarter 2010 for military, government and commercial customers. The ACR will be available in greater quantity (tens of thousands) in the commercial marketplace in 2010 [9]. According to an official press release from Bushmaster, the rifle will have suggested retail price between $2,685 - $ 3,061.00[10] - twice as much as early price quotes of "around $1500". Semi-automatic versions will be available to the commercial market from Bushmaster, and selective-fire versions available for military and law enforcement under the Remington name.[11] As of October 2009, Bushmaster has announced that several consumer versions of the ACR would be available in the first half of 2010. [12] Tens of thousands starting at only $1500.00 $2,685.00!!! Most people don't create threads about themselves boasting about something so trivial. You only make yourself look self-centered and arrogant. So what of you're right, there are more dignified ways of showing it instead of being as vain and childish as you are. Excuse me if I don't post a thread asking about what brand of underwear that Chris Costa wears.... As far as being self-centered and arrogant. Perhaps you should read those MAGPUL quotes once again...Better yet, do a search, and see how many times MAGPUL accused other members of talking out of their ass when the price was speculated of being higher. Then you can decide who was being self-centered and arrogant. I never said a damn thing about you being wrong about the ACR nor did I say anything about you posting something off-topic in the Magpul forum. I'm talking about how you are being overly proud(vain if you didn't figure out what that meant already) of your "OMG I KNEW TEH PRICE OF THE ACR BEFORE EVERYONE ELSE! I MUST TELL TEH INTERNET OMGZ!" thread and that you have created another thread dedicated to your little "victory" because you proved to the people who didn't believe you wrong. You are still the self-centered and arrogant one here. I'm pretty sure Magpul DOES KNOW more than most people about prices so I would trust their word. This time, it was Bushmaster who decided the price and screwed everyone over and it even looks like they didn't even tell Magpul about it. If you don't like the price, bitching about it on the internet is not going to do anything, just don't buy the damn thing and they will get the message. I don't see how Magpul could be self-centered or arrogant when they create products that are innovative and cost effective for the people who really need them. I think you're just pissed off that he was right, and he's still right in showing what was said for the record, QFT as its often eloquently put. Again, never said he was wrong, none of my posts say that in any thread he posted. I found out the price at SHOT show and went on the forum to see what everyone is saying, and you have this guy just flaunting his win and doing it in a fairly distasteful manner in my opinion. I'm not pissed off at him being right, just the way he is showing it. |
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Hey I saw that thing, too. It was outside of the Rio, Right? People sure are getting worked up about this. And why is every body mad at Magpul? They didn't set the price. They even thought it was going to be cheaper, I don't know why they didn't know but they didn't. Look, if it wasn't foe Magpul, there wouldn't be ANY ACR. Not just an over priced ACR NO ACR at all. They also never "lied" to us about the price. They hoped that it would be cheap but bushmaster had other ideas. People are just mad that is is more expensive than they wanted. I am, too. But I don't see where all this huffing and puffing is going. People think that by threatening not to buy that they will change their minds and lower the price. That's not going to happen with a huge company like bushmaster and its owners in charge. They released it with high prices to skim off the people that will pay early adopter prices first. Then they'll lower the price and get the general market. By that time half of the people that threatened not to buy one will have cooled off and will probably buy one anyway. Then you'll have a whole new market of people that are unaware of this whole thing saying "Wow! Now I can get that ultra cool ACR that they have had at my local sporting goods store for years for half the price! What a deal!" My point is this: Magpul seems to be interested in bringing good products to the market. I think this because the people in charge were former operators themselves (0321 FTW). They know what our guys need and they make them at an affordable price. Just look at ANY of their product line. Bushmaster on the other hand is run by suits, suits that only see one thing: $. I try to be objective as much as possible. I'll admit at first I was really ticked that the price was so high and I wouldn't be able to afford one. After a while to cool down I thought about it more, and I have come to the conclusion that it was a good business move. I may disagree with it, but it is probably a good move for them. After all Bushmaster IS run by suits, they know their $, and how to get it. If they can get more money overall by alienating just a few (comparatively) people then why not do it? For me now, the best case scenario is that it gets adopted by the military. This will be a good thing for our guys in the field. That is why I believe Magpul created it. Once, if ever, it gets adopted, then more companies will start making it, and the price will go down. Hopefully that will mean I won't have to buy one from bushmaster. And hopefully it will be soon! I doubt it will, but I hope so. The sooner our guys can get it the better, and the sooner the price drops, the better. Its win win... sorta Now back to our regularly scheduled flame wars and finger pointing |
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Quoted: Its not a threat. I can't justify spending $3k on an assault rifle, no matter how excited I am about it.Hey I saw that thing, too. It was outside of the Rio, Right? People sure are getting worked up about this. And why is every body mad at Magpul? They didn't set the price. They even thought it was going to be cheaper, I don't know why they didn't know but they didn't. Look, if it wasn't foe Magpul, there wouldn't be ANY ACR. Not just an over priced ACR NO ACR at all. They also never "lied" to us about the price. They hoped that it would be cheap but bushmaster had other ideas. People are just mad that is is more expensive than they wanted. I am, too. But I don't see where all this huffing and puffing is going. People think that by threatening not to buy that they will change their minds and lower the price. That's not going to happen with a huge company like bushmaster and its owners in charge. They released it with high prices to skim off the people that will pay early adopter prices first. Then they'll lower the price and get the general market. By that time half of the people that threatened not to buy one will have cooled off and will probably buy one anyway. Then you'll have a whole new market of people that are unaware of this whole thing saying "Wow! Now I can get that ultra cool ACR that they have had at my local sporting goods store for years for half the price! What a deal!" My point is this: Magpul seems to be interested in bringing good products to the market. I think this because the people in charge were former operators themselves (0321 FTW ). They know what our guys need and they make them at an affordable price. Just look at ANY of their product line. Bushmaster on the other hand is run by suits, suits that only see one thing: $. I try to be objective as much as possible. I'll admit at first I was really ticked that the price was so high and I wouldn't be able to afford one. After a while to cool down I thought about it more, and I have come to the conclusion that it was a good business move. I may disagree with it, but it is probably a good move for them. After all Bushmaster IS run by suits, they know their $, and how to get it. If they can get more money overall by alienating just a few (comparatively) people then why not do it? For me now, the best case scenario is that it gets adopted by the military. This will be a good thing for our guys in the field. That is why I believe Magpul created it. Once, if ever, it gets adopted, then more companies will start making it, and the price will go down. Hopefully that will mean I won't have to buy one from bushmaster. And hopefully it will be soon! I doubt it will, but I hope so. The sooner our guys can get it the better, and the sooner the price drops, the better. Its win win... sorta Now back to our regularly scheduled flame wars and finger pointing Also, I am disappointed in Magpul and Bushmaster who all along lead the community to believe that this rifle was designed to be affordable to the masses. "The People's Rifle" they called it. Now it is just "The Rich People's Rifle" and nothing more than a minor curiosity that could have been. How utterly disappointing. |
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And why is every body mad at Magpul?
You gotta be kidding right? They bragged about this rifle for how long? Telling everyone that it was going to be selling for how much? THIS WENT ON FOR YEARS! Just last month MAGPUL stated that they have a direct relationship with BM on the ACR. Do you think that BM just forgot to inform MAGPUL that suddenly the price nearly doubled? As far as being called self-centered and arrogant by Mr. MAGPUL fanboy, this isn't the first time MAGPUL has pulled this. Get everyone excited, and n o t h i n g , unless you got $3000.00 to spend. I'm sorry, I'm not one of the ones that MAGPUL referrers to as "Riding the short bus to school" (And you want to talk about arrogant), and I don't suffer from short term memory loss. This entire fiasco has tarnished the reputation of both Companies involved. And rightfully so.. |
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And why is every body mad at Magpul?
You gotta be kidding right? They bragged about this rifle for how long? Telling everyone that it was going to be selling for how much? THIS WENT ON FOR YEARS! Just last month MAGPUL stated that they have a direct relationship with BM on the ACR. Do you think that BM just forgot to inform MAGPUL that suddenly the price nearly doubled? As far as being called self-centered and arrogant by Mr. MAGPUL fanboy, this isn't the first time MAGPUL has pulled this. Get everyone excited, and n o t h i n g , unless you got $3000.00 to spend. I'm sorry, I'm not one of the ones that MAGPUL referrers to as "Riding the short bus to school" (And you want to talk about arrogant), and I don't suffer from short term memory loss. This entire fiasco has tarnished the reputation of both Companies involved. And rightfully so.. I'm not a fanboy, I may not know too much about what Magpul has done in the past, but they haven't done anything to me or anyone else I know that buys their products that would justify the way you are behaving. Get over it. |
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And why is every body mad at Magpul?
You gotta be kidding right? They bragged about this rifle for how long? Telling everyone that it was going to be selling for how much? THIS WENT ON FOR YEARS! Just last month MAGPUL stated that they have a direct relationship with BM on the ACR. Do you think that BM just forgot to inform MAGPUL that suddenly the price nearly doubled? As far as being called self-centered and arrogant by Mr. MAGPUL fanboy, this isn't the first time MAGPUL has pulled this. Get everyone excited, and n o t h i n g , unless you got $3000.00 to spend. I'm sorry, I'm not one of the ones that MAGPUL referrers to as "Riding the short bus to school" (And you want to talk about arrogant), and I don't suffer from short term memory loss. This entire fiasco has tarnished the reputation of both Companies involved. And rightfully so.. I'm not a fanboy, I may not know too much about what Magpul has done in the past, but they haven't done anything to me or anyone else I know that buys their products that would justify the way you are behaving. Get over it. Behaving? I listed QUOTES from MAGPUL in respoce to the ACR.... |
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And why is every body mad at Magpul?
You gotta be kidding right? They bragged about this rifle for how long? Telling everyone that it was going to be selling for how much? THIS WENT ON FOR YEARS! Just last month MAGPUL stated that they have a direct relationship with BM on the ACR. Do you think that BM just forgot to inform MAGPUL that suddenly the price nearly doubled? As far as being called self-centered and arrogant by Mr. MAGPUL fanboy, this isn't the first time MAGPUL has pulled this. Get everyone excited, and n o t h i n g , unless you got $3000.00 to spend. I'm sorry, I'm not one of the ones that MAGPUL referrers to as "Riding the short bus to school" (And you want to talk about arrogant), and I don't suffer from short term memory loss. This entire fiasco has tarnished the reputation of both Companies involved. And rightfully so.. I'm not a fanboy, I may not know too much about what Magpul has done in the past, but they haven't done anything to me or anyone else I know that buys their products that would justify the way you are behaving. Get over it. Behaving? I listed QUOTES from MAGPUL in respoce to the ACR.... Drake may have been a little harsh, but I don't listen to small talk, I wait for the official press release or a well formatted, informed response before I make judgments about anything. Businesses screw each other over all the time and communication is NOT always clear between them. I work at a company that has this problem and I know many others who have the same problem, Bushmaster and Magpul are probably no different. Customers are NOT always right either, I can't even begin to tell you how many people I have to deal with on a daily basis who talk out of their asses. So until I hear an official statement, I will hold my judgment on the matter. I got a chance to hold the ACR in person at the Bushmaster booth, and it was disappointing to say the least. It felt CHEAP and made me very disappointed. When I found out what the price was, I was even more shocked. One of the Bushmaster reps at SHOT made the comment, "Everyone is bashing us on the internet...blah blah" and that is rightfully so. However, since the SHOT show I haven't heard anything Magpul has had to say and I'm waiting for when they do. |
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And why is every body mad at Magpul?
You gotta be kidding right? They bragged about this rifle for how long? Telling everyone that it was going to be selling for how much? THIS WENT ON FOR YEARS! Just last month MAGPUL stated that they have a direct relationship with BM on the ACR. Do you think that BM just forgot to inform MAGPUL that suddenly the price nearly doubled? As far as being called self-centered and arrogant by Mr. MAGPUL fanboy, this isn't the first time MAGPUL has pulled this. Get everyone excited, and n o t h i n g , unless you got $3000.00 to spend. I'm sorry, I'm not one of the ones that MAGPUL referrers to as "Riding the short bus to school" (And you want to talk about arrogant), and I don't suffer from short term memory loss. This entire fiasco has tarnished the reputation of both Companies involved. And rightfully so.. I'm not a fanboy, I may not know too much about what Magpul has done in the past, but they haven't done anything to me or anyone else I know that buys their products that would justify the way you are behaving. Get over it. So you accept being strung along and lied to? You're pretty new here. Go to the archives and search "Masada" and see how long people here have been geeked about this rifle. Look, for the years "the people's rifle" was being developed, we were continually led to believe it would be everything people wanted: 1:7, chrome lined, piston driven, quick barrel changes, ergonomic, "Magpul", and affordable...as in $1500-ish. They (Magpul and BM) stated how they were working closely with each other throughout the whole process, every step of the way. Now, the original desired price for the Masada won't buy 1/2 an ACR and it has what is generally considerded to be an undesireable twist rate with a barrel that's not chrome lined. In the past Magpul has been pretty good about answering questions (including critical ones) about existing products (not "see sig line" products), so when they're completely silent in regards to their "baby" being produced with what some perceive to be a crappy barrel and a HORRENDOUS price, that deafening silence says "fuck you" to everyone who was looking forward to this. |
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And why is every body mad at Magpul?
You gotta be kidding right? They bragged about this rifle for how long? Telling everyone that it was going to be selling for how much? THIS WENT ON FOR YEARS! Just last month MAGPUL stated that they have a direct relationship with BM on the ACR. Do you think that BM just forgot to inform MAGPUL that suddenly the price nearly doubled? As far as being called self-centered and arrogant by Mr. MAGPUL fanboy, this isn't the first time MAGPUL has pulled this. Get everyone excited, and n o t h i n g , unless you got $3000.00 to spend. I'm sorry, I'm not one of the ones that MAGPUL referrers to as "Riding the short bus to school" (And you want to talk about arrogant), and I don't suffer from short term memory loss. This entire fiasco has tarnished the reputation of both Companies involved. And rightfully so.. I'm not a fanboy, I may not know too much about what Magpul has done in the past, but they haven't done anything to me or anyone else I know that buys their products that would justify the way you are behaving. Get over it. So you accept being strung along and lied to? You're pretty new here. Go to the archives and search "Masada" and see how long people here have been geeked about this rifle. Look, for the years "the people's rifle" was being developed, we were continually led to believe it would be everything people wanted: 1:7, chrome lined, piston driven, quick barrel changes, ergonomic, "Magpul", and affordable...as in $1500-ish. They (Magpul and BM) stated how they were working closely with each other throughout the whole process, every step of the way. Now, the original desired price for the Masada won't buy 1/2 an ACR and it has what is generally considerded to be an undesireable twist rate with a barrel that's not chrome lined. In the past Magpul has been pretty good about answering questions (including critical ones) about existing products (not "see sig line" products), so when they're completely silent in regards to their "baby" being produced with what some perceive to be a crappy barrel and a HORRENDOUS price, that deafening silence says "fuck you" to everyone who was looking forward to this. Thank you for clarifying it with me, I know there are always two sides to every story and sadly, I don't know enough of both to pass judgment, all I see is some guy rubbing the fact that he was right in EVERYONE's faces. |
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Quoted:
And why is every body mad at Magpul?
You gotta be kidding right? They bragged about this rifle for how long? Telling everyone that it was going to be selling for how much? THIS WENT ON FOR YEARS! Just last month MAGPUL stated that they have a direct relationship with BM on the ACR. Do you think that BM just forgot to inform MAGPUL that suddenly the price nearly doubled? As far as being called self-centered and arrogant by Mr. MAGPUL fanboy, this isn't the first time MAGPUL has pulled this. Get everyone excited, and n o t h i n g , unless you got $3000.00 to spend. I'm sorry, I'm not one of the ones that MAGPUL referrers to as "Riding the short bus to school" (And you want to talk about arrogant), and I don't suffer from short term memory loss. This entire fiasco has tarnished the reputation of both Companies involved. And rightfully so.. I'm not a fanboy, I may not know too much about what Magpul has done in the past, but they haven't done anything to me or anyone else I know that buys their products that would justify the way you are behaving. Get over it. So you accept being strung along and lied to? You're pretty new here. Go to the archives and search "Masada" and see how long people here have been geeked about this rifle. Look, for the years "the people's rifle" was being developed, we were continually led to believe it would be everything people wanted: 1:7, chrome lined, piston driven, quick barrel changes, ergonomic, "Magpul", and affordable...as in $1500-ish. They (Magpul and BM) stated how they were working closely with each other throughout the whole process, every step of the way. Now, the original desired price for the Masada won't buy 1/2 an ACR and it has what is generally considerded to be an undesireable twist rate with a barrel that's not chrome lined. In the past Magpul has been pretty good about answering questions (including critical ones) about existing products (not "see sig line" products), so when they're completely silent in regards to their "baby" being produced with what some perceive to be a crappy barrel and a HORRENDOUS price, that deafening silence says "fuck you" to everyone who was looking forward to this. Thank you for clarifying it with me, I know there are always two sides to every story and sadly, I don't know enough of both to pass judgment, all I see is some guy rubbing the fact that he was right in EVERYONE's faces. When I was told that I was talking out of my ass in everyones faces....And by whom? MAGPUL. |
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You were told that by Drake, one person in the company, one does not represent the whole. Now if it was the owner and a bunch of others from Magpul telling you the same, I would have a different opinion.
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
And why is every body mad at Magpul?
You gotta be kidding right? They bragged about this rifle for how long? Telling everyone that it was going to be selling for how much? THIS WENT ON FOR YEARS! Just last month MAGPUL stated that they have a direct relationship with BM on the ACR. Do you think that BM just forgot to inform MAGPUL that suddenly the price nearly doubled? As far as being called self-centered and arrogant by Mr. MAGPUL fanboy, this isn't the first time MAGPUL has pulled this. Get everyone excited, and n o t h i n g , unless you got $3000.00 to spend. I'm sorry, I'm not one of the ones that MAGPUL referrers to as "Riding the short bus to school" (And you want to talk about arrogant), and I don't suffer from short term memory loss. This entire fiasco has tarnished the reputation of both Companies involved. And rightfully so.. I'm not a fanboy, I may not know too much about what Magpul has done in the past, but they haven't done anything to me or anyone else I know that buys their products that would justify the way you are behaving. Get over it. So you accept being strung along and lied to? You're pretty new here. Go to the archives and search "Masada" and see how long people here have been geeked about this rifle. Look, for the years "the people's rifle" was being developed, we were continually led to believe it would be everything people wanted: 1:7, chrome lined, piston driven, quick barrel changes, ergonomic, "Magpul", and affordable...as in $1500-ish. They (Magpul and BM) stated how they were working closely with each other throughout the whole process, every step of the way. Now, the original desired price for the Masada won't buy 1/2 an ACR and it has what is generally considerded to be an undesireable twist rate with a barrel that's not chrome lined. In the past Magpul has been pretty good about answering questions (including critical ones) about existing products (not "see sig line" products), so when they're completely silent in regards to their "baby" being produced with what some perceive to be a crappy barrel and a HORRENDOUS price, that deafening silence says "fuck you" to everyone who was looking forward to this. Nailed it. |
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Quoted:
You were told that by Drake, one person in the company, one does not represent the whole. Now if it was the owner and a bunch of others from Magpul telling you the same, I would have a different opinion. |
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You were told that by Drake, one person in the company, one does not represent the whole. Now if it was the owner and a bunch of others from Magpul telling you the same, I would have a different opinion. Forums IMO are very informal and when information comes out, I usually take it with a grain of salt. If he was harsh and stated information based only on his knowledge, he could be wrong. I know how you feel, but you are a little too over the top with all this which is what I was talking about in the first place. |
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Listen, if you supposedly dislike magpul and bushmaster so much, and if you wont be purchasing an ACR, then why are you whining about something you don't care about and wont purchase?
How was your prediction not out of your ass? It seems to me like it was some wildly guessed number. It was $500 less than the current basic MSRP, so actually, in that case, you were wrong. |
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He did come up with the bushmaster price about a day before the press release, IIRC.
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Quoted:
You were told that by Drake, one person in the company, one does not represent the whole. Now if it was the owner and a bunch of others from Magpul telling you the same, I would have a different opinion. Forums IMO are very informal and when information comes out, I usually take it with a grain of salt. If he was harsh and stated information based only on his knowledge, he could be wrong. I know how you feel, but you are a little too over the top with all this which is what I was talking about in the first place. If it was some guy in the shop that made a comment sticking up for his company's product, that's one thing. Drake is one of Magpul's pointmen in the forums and has been "the voice" of the company for quite some time. As such, he's their "face" and what he says is pretty much the company line. It's hard to cut slack when someone like that says what's been said. |
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This is all based on the assumption that MagPul knew what the price would be. Working closely does not mean we get to set the price. Infact in the origonal post there are a few different quotes from bushmaster's reps Even they didn't know the price and it's their job to know. All the Magpul people on here have their own stuff to worry about, especially right before SHOT. How many new products did they release again?
Again I ask when did they lie? I see no official statement where they say that it will cost this or that. There is no proof that they didn't know the price, but there is also no proof that they did. I for one will give them the benefit of the doubt based on their track record of great products at a great price. As for Dr.Drake's comments I am almost certain that he didn't know the price. He is just an engineer, it isn't his job to know what the suits at bushmaster are planning for the price. He was probably assuming that bushmaster was still going to release the Magpul planned price, and annoyed at another *apparent* price rumor. An *apparent* rumor that just happened to turn out to be a sad truth. How easy it is to look back and say someone is a liar. Just because someone says something that isn't true doesn't make them a liar, they need to know that it isn't true. How many people would be screaming about liars if it turned out to be $1500, and the bushmaster rep said $2700? I'm just as bummed about the price as all of you. I can't afford a $3k rifle, and I was really looking forward to the $1500 ACR, but that's just not a reality. I think everybody should just take a deep breath and cool down. I'm sure we'll hear something on Monday from Magpul, and bushmaster. How about we wait until more facts come out before we get our panties in a knot. |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: You were told that by Drake, one person in the company, one does not represent the whole. Now if it was the owner and a bunch of others from Magpul telling you the same, I would have a different opinion. Forums IMO are very informal and when information comes out, I usually take it with a grain of salt. If he was harsh and stated information based only on his knowledge, he could be wrong. I know how you feel, but you are a little too over the top with all this which is what I was talking about in the first place. Or optionally... he was right the entire time, and your eating crow. Most of us now know he was right the entire time, but I commend you also redlinegts, your doing a good job of deflecting. He was right, you were wrong, truth may sting a little, but you'll get over it. |
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
You were told that by Drake, one person in the company, one does not represent the whole. Now if it was the owner and a bunch of others from Magpul telling you the same, I would have a different opinion. Forums IMO are very informal and when information comes out, I usually take it with a grain of salt. If he was harsh and stated information based only on his knowledge, he could be wrong. I know how you feel, but you are a little too over the top with all this which is what I was talking about in the first place. Or optionally... he was right the entire time, and your eating crow. Most of us now know he was right the entire time, but I commend you also redlinegts, your doing a good job of deflecting. He was right, you were wrong, truth may sting a little, but you'll get over it. I never said anything about Lionhart being wrong about the ACR price. I've said this for the third time already. I just don't agree with why he has to go prancing about and rubbing it into everyone's faces about being right. I only just found out about the price on Wednesday, without having read any of Lionhart's posts except for this one the day I got home and looked on arfcom to see what people were saying. The price of the ACR is outrageous and we can all agree on that. That's why, none of us are buying it to tell Bushmaster to take their ACR and shove it up their ass. If Drake was lying to us the whole time, then fine, he's an asshole, but I've yet to heard anything concrete from Magpul so I won't be saying so. |
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I do recall those long threads about the MAGPUL AR lower that was going to become available. That went on for what at least a year if not longer? Yup, MAGPUL stated that we'd all be able to buy, and what happened? Oh, they were available all right, but not at around $300.00, for $2000.00-$3000.00 for a limited edition rifle through NOVESKE during the height of the OBAMA craziness.
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He did come up with the bushmaster price about a day before the press release, IIRC. Which I contributed as being made by BM, and MAGPUL responded; Quoted:
I would hold off until official word get released. This not what we have been told the base model price was going to be. |
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I would still love a Magpul lower.
I gotta chime in with everyone else, while there is no way in hell I will be purchasing a ACR, I will remain a Magpul customer. |
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Perhaps a lot of the...terseness...in the replies from Magpul stems from the fact that they've been lied to themselves.
By licensing to BM, perhaps they lost a lot more control over the process than they had originally been told was going to be the case. BM chasing after military contracts may have come from the top...and like all military contracts, when it went over schedule and over budget...well that's just part and parcel of the process. But imagine hearing all this speculation about your brainchild, so you say a guy is talking out of his ass. Then it turns out your financiers and business partners weren't so up front with YOU instead, and this average joe is getting better information by calling customer service than YOU are, the guy who's idea the whole thing was. That hurts. Of course that is all speculation...we don't really know any of the personalities and relationships involved....never mind the wording of contracts which may or may not curtail public comment on your project (the internet and youtube don't count for much). I agree with a previous poster, all this wailing and gnashing of teeth gets us nowhere. I think people are (justifiably) upset that the price is so much higher than we came to expect. I also agree that BM is essentially asking early adopters to underwrite the added expense of requirements for military trials. I'm going to sit back and observe how this all plays out before I make a decision to continue to patronize magpul or BM. My .02, FWIW |
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Quoted:
Perhaps a lot of the...terseness...in the replies from Magpul stems from the fact that they've been lied to themselves. By licensing to BM, perhaps they lost a lot more control over the process than they had originally been told was going to be the case. BM chasing after military contracts may have come from the top...and like all military contracts, when it went over schedule and over budget...well that's just part and parcel of the process. But imagine hearing all this speculation about your brainchild, so you say a guy is talking out of his ass. Then it turns out your financiers and business partners weren't so up front with YOU instead, and this average joe is getting better information by calling customer service than YOU are, the guy who's idea the whole thing was. That hurts. Of course that is all speculation...we don't really know any of the personalities and relationships involved....never mind the wording of contracts which may or may not curtail public comment on your project (the internet and youtube don't count for much). I agree with a previous poster, all this wailing and gnashing of teeth gets us nowhere. I think people are (justifiably) upset that the price is so much higher than we came to expect. I also agree that BM is essentially asking early adopters to underwrite the added expense of requirements for military trials. I'm going to sit back and observe how this all plays out before I make a decision to continue to patronize magpul or BM. My .02, FWIW Well put. I concur. |
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I'll say this as well: while the delivery was kind of shaky, that guy in the youtube video from SHOT clearly had a well rehearsed answer, just like his pitch for the rifle itself.
That tells me they know we are griping...but that kind of "politician's answer" is the best you can expect from any rational person or organization. If he values his job, he's not going to shoot off at the mouth and say something un-politik. BM has a marketing department to keep everyone on-message. That's not just to placate us, it protects the company from the appearance of discord, which is bad for business. It scares off investors AND Congressmen. |
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Lionhart,
Well you were right. You get no hate from me. Thanks for putting all of it together. Max |
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Quoted:
And I don't see why you're ragging on Magpul. Obviously they had/have nothing to do with the ACR program at all other than making the plastic. The way they were chewing at Lionheart would lead one to believe otherwise. Regardless, I think they have a stable of useful products that allows you to purty up an AR on the cheap. Maybe in the end that'll be their forte. |
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