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Dick Swan is about the gayest name I've ever heard. It may be childish, but I giggle every time I hear it. And Optics Swan Rail? WTF? Mark, you'd better catch a patent on the Optics Albatross Rail  Tried using a Swan Rail. Stupid thing would squawk, flap around and crap everywhere every time I fired a round. 
But it would be oh, so funny. Oh, page 5 is mine. |
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Quoted: The only thing that could make this any funnier... is if someone were to photoshop the swan's head in a dresser drawer! I'm just gonna leave this here...... http://www.wagneropera.net/Images/BayreuthPix/Par_180608_079_EnricoNawrat.jpg  |
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Quoted: I still don't get this... notwithstanding the fact that you were already engaged in [national?] commerce with "170" "years before" his "17"... the dash or hyphen clearly separates the alpha component from the num component.Quoted: Uh, no, as even though we have an LT-170 ... and used it for years before he got his –– #17 –– trademark ... he and his team are still suing us. Quoted: This right here.I propose the first 100 out the door are the: LaRue Tactical Optimized Sniper Rifle Just call it the LTOSR or LT-OSR. It's painfully obvious the truth lying behind the quip - anybody, anywhere, can sue anyone.  The "number" in question is "170"... not "17". Much like the number "100" is different from the number "10," the number "170" is different than "17." I just don't see the requisite "likelihood of confusion" (required to prevail in the suit; not to file it). I haven't really followed this case, mainly because I expect(ed) it to be dismissed pretty early on. Alas, I guess they call these types of suite "frivolous" for a reason... |
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Don't stop now, you are on a roll... and it has me rollin'! |
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Hahaha, That is AWESOME! |
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I'm fuckin' dyin' here...!  |
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You should claim all the numbers from now to kingdom come through trademark. That ought to get them rolling. Uh, Kingdom Come is already taken.
But the name "Dick Swan" has not been trademarked. Wouldn't it suck for him if he had to pay you a royality every time he signed his name.  Every time he sued you, you could sue him back for signing his name to the complaint.
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I concur, trademark his name...
Then he'll have to change it, and in a just world the judge would only allow him to change his last name, and only from Swan to Head... ––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––– OFFICIAL SIGN UP FOR THE LARUE SOFTBALL TOURNAMENT!!! team Armadillo has a full roster, but the ELMER F.U.D.S. will be needing 17 new members... just saying... ––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––– hey ML, i know there's a whole other thread, but i seem to have this A.R.S.E. #19 ACOG mount, feels like the ARMS on the throwlever assembly are a little week, and i'm afraid they may break at any time now, any chance i could swap them for a larue ACOG mount?.. K. |
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Mark,
Sounds like you are in need of a good trademark watch service. I am GC for a company much smaller than yours, but we make use of a service that alert us of new TM applications in any category or with any characteristic (such as applicant name, etc.) we choose. It's a lot easier, and cheaper for that matter, to contest a TM application before it ever gets registered. And you don't need to pay attorneys to have these TM watch notices sent to you. I'm sure by now you are already using such a service... but just wanted to make sure. |
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Mark, Sounds like you are in need of a good trademark watch service. I am GC for a company much smaller than yours, but we make use of a service that alert us of new TM applications in any category or with any characteristic (such as applicant name, etc.) we choose. It's a lot easier, and cheaper for that matter, to contest a TM application before it ever gets registered. And you don't need to pay attorneys to have these TM watch notices sent to you. I'm sure by now you are already using such a service... but just wanted to make sure. Now there's a prime idea in this very unprime world. Tell me more. ML |
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Mark, Sounds like you are in need of a good trademark watch service. I am GC for a company much smaller than yours, but we make use of a service that alert us of new TM applications in any category or with any characteristic (such as applicant name, etc.) we choose. It's a lot easier, and cheaper for that matter, to contest a TM application before it ever gets registered. And you don't need to pay attorneys to have these TM watch notices sent to you. I'm sure by now you are already using such a service... but just wanted to make sure. Now there's a prime idea in this very unprime world. Tell me more. ML We use this company, but I'm sure there are others... Thomson CompuMark http://compumark.thomson.com/do/cache/off/pid/107 If memory serves me, it's around $180 / year for each word you have them watch, $360 for each design (We have to watch trademarks that people register in the form of medical-style crosses, for example). I believe you can also have them set up watches for each mark applied for by a particular registrant, Dick Swan for example. Whenever a TM is applied for, it first must go through an initial review by the US Patent and Trademark Office. They look to see if it is clearly violating any existing marks or is too general or descriptive to be afforded protection. After that, if they initially approve the TM, they "publish" the TM for a period of at least a month to give the general public the ability to oppose the registration of that mark. Here's where the watch services come into play. They send you a notice each time an application triggers one of the criteria you set up with the watch service. This is the part where you will want to kill yourself... you will get envelopes in the mail one or more times a week with all the TM applications remotely similar to the criteria you set up. But if you see something that infringes one of your marks or is ridiculous in your opinion, like "5.56", you could then get your attorney and have him send a letter to the USPTO saying that you are opposing the registration of that particular TM for the reasons your attorney chooses to list. It's really the only way to keep up with all of the ridiculous TM applications that are being submitted to the USPTO nowadays... and they are so overunderstaffed, they are letting all kinds of crazy stuff get registered. And once it's registered, it's a lot harder to get that TM unregistered. So using a TM watch service helps you head these things off at the pass. |
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Mark, Sounds like you are in need of a good trademark watch service. I am GC for a company much smaller than yours, but we make use of a service that alert us of new TM applications in any category or with any characteristic (such as applicant name, etc.) we choose. It's a lot easier, and cheaper for that matter, to contest a TM application before it ever gets registered. And you don't need to pay attorneys to have these TM watch notices sent to you. I'm sure by now you are already using such a service... but just wanted to make sure. Now there's a prime idea in this very unprime world. Tell me more. ML We use this company, but I'm sure there are others... Thomson CompuMark http://compumark.thomson.com/do/cache/off/pid/107 If memory serves me, it's around $180 / year for each word you have them watch, $360 for each design (We have to watch trademarks that people register in the form of medical-style crosses, for example). I believe you can also have them set up watches for each mark applied for by a particular registrant, Dick Swan for example. Whenever a TM is applied for, it first must go through an initial review by the US Patent and Trademark Office. They look to see if it is clearly violating any existing marks or is too general or descriptive to be afforded protection. After that, if they initially approve the TM, they "publish" the TM for a period of at least a month to give the general public the ability to oppose the registration of that mark. Here's where the watch services come into play. They send you a notice each time an application triggers one of the criteria you set up with the watch service. This is the part where you will want to kill yourself... you will get envelopes in the mail one or more times a week with all the TM applications remotely similar to the criteria you set up. But if you see something that infringes one of your marks or is ridiculous in your opinion, like "5.56", you could then get your attorney and have him send a letter to the USPTO saying that you are opposing the registration of that particular TM for the reasons your attorney chooses to list. It's really the only way to keep up with all of the ridiculous TM applications that are being submitted to the USPTO nowadays... and they are so overstaffed, they are letting all kinds of crazy stuff get registered. And once it's registered, it's a lot harder to get that TM unregistered. So using a TM watch service helps you head these things off at the pass. Thank you ... one less thang. 
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Mark, Sounds like you are in need of a good trademark watch service. I am GC for a company much smaller than yours, but we make use of a service that alert us of new TM applications in any category or with any characteristic (such as applicant name, etc.) we choose. It's a lot easier, and cheaper for that matter, to contest a TM application before it ever gets registered. And you don't need to pay attorneys to have these TM watch notices sent to you. I'm sure by now you are already using such a service... but just wanted to make sure. Now there's a prime idea in this very unprime world. Tell me more. ML We use this company, but I'm sure there are others... Thomson CompuMark http://compumark.thomson.com/do/cache/off/pid/107 If memory serves me, it's around $180 / year for each word you have them watch, $360 for each design (We have to watch trademarks that people register in the form of medical-style crosses, for example). I believe you can also have them set up watches for each mark applied for by a particular registrant, Dick Swan for example. Whenever a TM is applied for, it first must go through an initial review by the US Patent and Trademark Office. They look to see if it is clearly violating any existing marks or is too general or descriptive to be afforded protection. After that, if they initially approve the TM, they "publish" the TM for a period of at least a month to give the general public the ability to oppose the registration of that mark. Here's where the watch services come into play. They send you a notice each time an application triggers one of the criteria you set up with the watch service. This is the part where you will want to kill yourself... you will get envelopes in the mail one or more times a week with all the TM applications remotely similar to the criteria you set up. But if you see something that infringes one of your marks or is ridiculous in your opinion, like "5.56", you could then get your attorney and have him send a letter to the USPTO saying that you are opposing the registration of that particular TM for the reasons your attorney chooses to list. It's really the only way to keep up with all of the ridiculous TM applications that are being submitted to the USPTO nowadays... and they are so overstaffed, they are letting all kinds of crazy stuff get registered. And once it's registered, it's a lot harder to get that TM unregistered. So using a TM watch service helps you head these things off at the pass. Thank you ... one less thang.
Just know that you are in good company. We had to settle a TM lawsuit a couple years ago that was complete b*llshit, but as you know now, corporate litigation in today's world has absolutely nothing to do with right and wrong. Generally speaking, it is a matter of (a) who will run out of money first and (b) who can bear the potential losses. In our case, even though we genuinely believed we were "in the right", we were a smaller company. So the other company knew that (1) in an extended legal battle, we would run out of money first, (2) if we lost, it would destroy us financially, and (3) if they lost, it would be a serious hit, but they would survive financially. So it's a simple risk assessment, and no responsible company can bet everything on the outcome of a legal suit, especially when losing that legal battle could mean that your employees and their families lose their livelihood too. Every sophisticated, predatory company knows these facts and uses them routinely against smaller companies. So what do we do is... we settle out of court, bend over to their ridiculous demands, change the name of products that rightfully belong to us, and pay them some portion of the crazy amount of money that they originally demand. Then we move on our merry way and become even more risk averse in the future. The OSR issue is tricky. I'm assuming you do federal TM searches before you name any of your products. That's a no-brainer and can be done for free. But it looks like ARMS hasn't applied for an OSR TM (not federal, at least). So any of your searches would turn up negative, and you would think that you are good to go. But federal registration just gives constructive notice to the entire country that a person/company "owns" that mark. They can still claim a mark as their own without registration, and they would argue that you had actual knowledge of their OSR TM because you are in the same industry. Then they sue you, and then you find yourself in the above dilemma. But dang, is ARMS really that much bigger than you financially? Eventually, someone will have to take ARMS to the mat. If I were advising a company such as yours (and of course, I'm not), I would work to organize a combined effort of all the aggrieved competitors of ARMS (LT, Troy, Magpul, etc.) who have a joint interest in ARMS taking a hit and launch a simultaneous attack on his weakest TMs and Patents. It would be potentially catastrophic for a company to have to defend multiple TMs and Patents from multiple plaintiffs at the same time. |
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What M4shooter1 said is definitely true to a certain extent. Looking at this issue on my own time and having done enough preliminary trademark research, U.S. trademark law is a tricky thing. From what i've read, however, I think you have more than a fighting chance.
IF class actions worked on companies in trademarks I'd completely agree with m4shooter1 but they don't; however, the idea is in the right place. Avoidance of litigation is typically the method that most like to use coupled with prolonged legal battles. If u have an idea of who the firm is that is representing ARMS I could probably give u a better idea of what ur up against. Lastly., the realm of trademark litigation isn't anything special it; however it does absorb much of a companies time and resources that is invested in a trademark. Of course i live for trial work so then again... i love having fun with that stuff :D |
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What M4shooter1 said is definitely true to a certain extent. Looking at this issue on my own time and having done enough preliminary trademark research, U.S. trademark law is a tricky thing. From what i've read, however, I think you have more than a fighting chance. IF class actions worked on companies in trademarks I'd completely agree with m4shooter1 but they don't; however, the idea is in the right place. Avoidance of litigation is typically the method that most like to use coupled with prolonged legal battles. If u have an idea of who the firm is that is representing ARMS I could probably give u a better idea of what ur up against. Lastly., the realm of trademark litigation isn't anything special it; however it does absorb much of a companies time and resources that is invested in a trademark. Of course i live for trial work so then again... i love having fun with that stuff :D I'm not talking about a class action. I'm talking about the prospect of defending against multiple different lawsuits at the same time (for example, Magpul battling over their MBUS, LT battling over the OSR TM, etc). Most companies don't have a suitable "rainy day legal defense fund" saved up, so of course it depends on that and what sort of IP insurance ARMS has, but I know from experience that most companies cannot afford (financially, emotionally, logistically, etc.) to fight multiple separate legal battles. They settle on unfavorable terms. |