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Posted: 1/18/2021 7:37:59 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/18/2021 7:44:05 PM EST by makarov57]
Actually goes well beyond 80%s. Many pre 1968 firearms don't have serial numbers either.

https://lis.virginia.gov/cgi-bin/legp604.exe?211+ful+HB2276

HB 2276 Plastic firearms and unfinished frames, etc.; manufacture, import, sale, transfer, etc., penalty.
Introduced by: Marcus B. Simon | all patrons    ...    notes | add to my profiles

SUMMARY AS INTRODUCED:
Manufacture, import, sale, transfer, or possession of plastic firearms and unfinished frames or receivers and unserialized firearms; penalties. Creates a Class 5 felony for any person who manufactures, imports, sells, transfers, or possesses any firearm that, after removal of all parts other than a major component, as defined in the bill, is not detectable as a firearm by the types of detection devices, including X-ray machines, commonly used at airports for security screening. The bill updates language regarding the types of detection devices that are used at airports for detecting plastic firearms.

The bill also creates several Class 1 misdemeanors, which are punishable as a Class 4 felony for a second or subsequent offense, making it unlawful (i) for any person to possess, sell, offer to sell, transfer, purchase, transport, or receive an unfinished frame or receiver or firearm, unless the party possessing or receiving the unfinished frame or receiver or firearm is a federal firearms importer or manufacturer or the unfinished frame or receiver or firearm is imprinted with a serial number issued by a federal firearms importer or manufacturer and (ii) for any person to manufacture, cause to be manufactured, assemble, or cause to be assembled a firearm that is not imprinted with a serial number issued by a federal firearms importer or manufacturer in compliance with all federal laws and regulations regulating the manufacture and import of firearms.

§ 18.2-308.5:2. Prohibition on unfinished frames or receivers and unserialized firearms; penalty.

A. As used in this section:

"Assemble" means to fit together component parts.

"Federal firearms importer" means a licensed importer pursuant to 18 U.S.C. § 921(a)(9).

"Federal firearms manufacturer" means a licensed manufacturer pursuant to 18 U.S.C. § 921(a)(10).

"Manufacture" means to fabricate, make, form, produce, or construct by manual labor or by machinery.

"Unfinished frame or receiver" means a piece of any material that does not constitute the frame or receiver of a firearm, rifle, or shotgun but that has been shaped or formed in any way for the purpose of becoming the frame or receiver of a firearm, rifle, or shotgun, and which may readily be made into a functional frame or receiver through milling, drilling, or other means. "Unfinished frame or receiver" does not include a piece of material that has had its size or external shape altered to facilitate transportation or storage or has had its chemical composition altered.

B. It is unlawful for any person to possess, sell, offer to sell, transfer, purchase, transport, or receive an unfinished frame or receiver, unless the party possessing or receiving the unfinished frame or receiver is a federal firearms importer or federal firearms manufacturer or the unfinished frame or receiver is required by federal law to be, and has been, imprinted with a serial number issued by a federal firearms importer or federal firearms manufacturer.

C. It is unlawful for any person to manufacture, cause to be manufactured, assemble, or cause to be assembled a firearm that is not imprinted with a serial number issued by a federal firearms importer or federal firearms manufacturer in compliance with all federal laws and regulations regulating the manufacture and import of firearms.

D. It is unlawful for any person to possess, sell, offer to sell, transfer, purchase, transport, or receive a firearm that is not imprinted with a serial number issued by a federal firearms importer or federal firearms manufacturer in compliance with all federal laws and regulations regulating the manufacture and import of firearms, unless the party possessing or receiving the firearm is a law-enforcement agency or a federal firearms importer or federal firearms manufacturer.

E. The provisions of subsections C and D shall not apply to a firearm that has been rendered permanently inoperable or is an antique firearm as defined in subsection F of § 18.2-308.2:2.

F. Any person who violates this section is guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor. Any person convicted of a second or subsequent offense of this section is guilty of a Class 4 felony.

2. That the provisions of this act may result in a net increase in periods of imprisonment or commitment. Pursuant to § 30-19.1:4 of the Code of Virginia, the estimated amount of the necessary appropriation cannot be determined for periods of imprisonment in state adult correctional facilities; therefore, Chapter 1289 of the Acts of Assembly of 2020 requires the Virginia Criminal Sentencing Commission to assign a minimum fiscal impact of $50,000. Pursuant to § 30-19.1:4 of the Code of Virginia, the estimated amount of the necessary appropriation cannot be determined for periods of commitment to the custody of the Department of Juvenile Justice.

3. That the provisions of this act shall become effective on January 1, 2022.
Link Posted: 1/18/2021 10:30:02 PM EST
To quote Slim Pickens - "Yeeeeeeeehhaaaaaaaaaaawwwwwwwwwwwwww!!!
Link Posted: 1/19/2021 9:19:58 AM EST
And they're playing fuck-fuck games with the meeting times and signing up to speak so only their side gets air time.

See? Nobody spoke against it!
Link Posted: 1/19/2021 10:34:29 AM EST
If you are worried about them taking your 80% away, then you aren't doing it right.
Link Posted: 1/19/2021 3:33:48 PM EST
"It is unlawful for any person to possess, sell, offer to sell, transfer, purchase, transport, or receive a firearm that is not imprinted with a serial number issued by a federal firearms importer or federal firearms manufacturer in compliance with all federal laws and regulations..."

These idiots don't even understand the current laws and they want to pass new ones.
Link Posted: 1/20/2021 2:36:46 PM EST
This proposal sucks!

A) What constitutes a serial number for older firearms?
B) What about firearms pre-1968 that may or may not have a serial number?
C) What constitutes "readily made into a functional frame or receiver" when "readily" apparently includes "milling, drilling, or other means."
 C.1) If "milling, drilling, or other means" is on the table, it's not just 80% they're after, it's homemade firearms in general.
D) The definition of "Unfinished frame or receiver" includes  that of a "firearm, rifle, or shotgun"; where do muzzleloaded weapons fit into this?  They are exempted from most "firearm" definitions, but would likely still fall under the generic "rifle" or "shotgun" definitions...


These people throw shit together to see what they can make stick and it's ridiculous they aren't held accountable.
Link Posted: 1/20/2021 3:13:08 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/20/2021 3:15:46 PM EST by dalle0001]
I think you guys are reading this wrong. They're not after 80% lowers, but sounds more like 3d printed guns.


Manufacture, import, sale, transfer, or possession of plastic firearms and unfinished frames or receivers and unserialized firearms; penalties. Creates a Class 5 felony for any person who manufactures, imports, sells, transfers, or possesses any firearm that, after removal of all parts other than a major component, as defined in the bill, is not detectable as a firearm by the types of detection devices, including X-ray machines, commonly used at airports for security screening. The bill updates language regarding the types of detection devices that are used at airports for detecting plastic firearms.
View Quote


I'm guessing this is for 3d printed guns or plastic guns that you can pass through a metal detector. The language is unusual since even polymer lowers can be detected if you try to walk through a metal detector with it.

Every 80% lower that I know of would not pass a metal detector. Even then, if you remove the upper, and all the pieces of the lower, you don't have an actual firearm but just a block of polymer/metal that will sound the alarm at the airport or any other place with a detection device.

So no, I don't think you guys should be worried about this bill because it wouldn't apply to 99.99% of home built firearms. It's essentially a non-existing problem that they just want to pass to look like they're doing something major to those that are ill informed and watch too much Die Hard 2.
Link Posted: 1/20/2021 4:31:35 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/20/2021 4:32:15 PM EST by makarov57]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By dalle0001:
I think you guys are reading this wrong. They're not after 80% lowers, but sounds more like 3d printed guns.



I'm guessing this is for 3d printed guns or plastic guns that you can pass through a metal detector. The language is unusual since even polymer lowers can be detected if you try to walk through a metal detector with it.

Every 80% lower that I know of would not pass a metal detector. Even then, if you remove the upper, and all the pieces of the lower, you don't have an actual firearm but just a block of polymer/metal that will sound the alarm at the airport or any other place with a detection device.

So no, I don't think you guys should be worried about this bill because it wouldn't apply to 99.99% of home built firearms. It's essentially a non-existing problem that they just want to pass to look like they're doing something major to those that are ill informed and watch too much Die Hard 2.
View Quote


Read the text of the bill. I posted it verbatim. Don't read the summary.


"Unfinished frame or receiver" means a piece of any material that does not constitute the frame or receiver of a firearm, rifle, or shotgun but that has been shaped or formed in any way for the purpose of becoming the frame or receiver of a firearm, rifle, or shotgun, and which may readily be made into a functional frame or receiver through milling, drilling, or other means. "Unfinished frame or receiver" does not include a piece of material that has had its size or external shape altered to facilitate transportation or storage or has had its chemical composition altered.

B. It is unlawful for any person to possess, sell, offer to sell, transfer, purchase, transport, or receive an unfinished frame or receiver, unless the party possessing or receiving the unfinished frame or receiver is a federal firearms importer or federal firearms manufacturer or the unfinished frame or receiver is required by federal law to be, and has been, imprinted with a serial number issued by a federal firearms importer or federal firearms manufacturer.

C. It is unlawful for any person to manufacture, cause to be manufactured, assemble, or cause to be assembled a firearm that is not imprinted with a serial number issued by a federal firearms importer or federal firearms manufacturer in compliance with all federal laws and regulations regulating the manufacture and import of firearms.

D. It is unlawful for any person to possess, sell, offer to sell, transfer, purchase, transport, or receive a firearm that is not imprinted with a serial number issued by a federal firearms importer or federal firearms manufacturer in compliance with all federal laws and regulations regulating the manufacture and import of firearms, unless the party possessing or receiving the firearm is a law-enforcement agency or a federal firearms importer or federal firearms manufacturer.


Link Posted: 1/20/2021 5:04:29 PM EST
It's intent, and they just banned 3d printers, lathes, and mild steel stock.

It's almost as idiotic as the TX definition of unlicensed laboratory equipment being 100% overlapping with a drip coffee maker.
Link Posted: 1/20/2021 9:57:35 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/20/2021 9:59:13 PM EST by MVolkJ]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By blwngazkit:
This proposal sucks!

A) What constitutes a serial number for older firearms?
B) What about firearms pre-1968 that may or may not have a serial number?
C) What constitutes "readily made into a functional frame or receiver" when "readily" apparently includes "milling, drilling, or other means."
 C.1) If "milling, drilling, or other means" is on the table, it's not just 80% they're after, it's homemade firearms in general.
D) The definition of "Unfinished frame or receiver" includes  that of a "firearm, rifle, or shotgun"; where do muzzleloaded weapons fit into this?  They are exempted from most "firearm" definitions, but would likely still fall under the generic "rifle" or "shotgun" definitions...


These people throw shit together to see what they can make stick and it's ridiculous they aren't held accountable.
View Quote


Yup! Also note that virtually every milsurp imported prior to 1968 would be hit by this, as while they do have serials, they weren't applied by anything that could remotely be considered a federally licensed importer or manufacturer under 18 U.S.C. § 921.
Link Posted: 1/21/2021 7:45:07 AM EST
[Last Edit: 1/21/2021 7:48:26 AM EST by jeepva]
VCDL put out a alert last night saying they  added an amendment to it to exempt pre 1968 stuff. The Virginia LIS shows they did make amendments to it
But naturally the website hasn't uploaded the amendments yet.
Link Posted: 1/21/2021 9:14:36 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By jeepva:
VCDL put out a alert last night saying they  added an amendment to it to exempt pre 1968 stuff. The Virginia LIS shows they did make amendments to it
But naturally the website hasn't uploaded the amendments yet.
View Quote


That still doesn't make it okay, it just buys off constituencies. And doesn't include the milsurp I ATF Form 6'ed from other countries myself.
Link Posted: 1/21/2021 5:03:02 PM EST
You can leave comments for the committee here.

https://hodspeak.house.virginia.gov/committees/H15/bill_feedback

HB2276 will be heard TOMORROW in the full committee.

The NOVA Karens have been spamming the comment section.

You have to leave a name, but you DO NOT have to leave a real name. Your comments will post immediately.
Link Posted: 1/21/2021 5:36:00 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/21/2021 6:12:19 PM EST by Gotterdammerung]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By dalle0001:
I think you guys are reading this wrong. They're not after 80% lowers, but sounds more like 3d printed guns.

View Quote


The 1st paragraph is trying to ban plastic guns designed to get past metal detectors/x-rays. The 2nd paragraph is trying to ban any gun/unfinished receiver without a serial number put there by a federally licensed importer or manufacturer
Link Posted: 1/23/2021 9:54:12 AM EST
This bill passed out of committee 12-10.

If this passes the full House and Senate, it will make anyone who currently has firearm that was built at home a criminal.

Class 1 Misdemeanor for the first offense, Class 4 Felony for any subsequent conviction.

Folks who followed all applicable laws are now instant criminals because of these scum.
Link Posted: 1/24/2021 12:01:26 PM EST
Good luck VA!  The way your legislation is written is horrible.  

Washington passed similar legislation a couple of years ago, but it's worded differently so unfinished receivers appear to still be legal here.  How does VA define a firearm?

Washington's definition of a firearm encompasses the entire firearm not just the lower. Our legislature didn't ban "untraceable firearms" but made it illegal to manufacture with intent to sell or knowingly or recklessly aid someone ineligible under federal law in making a untraceable firearm.

undetectable firearms are straight up illegal, but the law indicates if the slide and barrel is metal you're good to go here.  

unfortunately for us, while still legal, the law is a great success for the anti-gunners.  Many companies won't send unfinished receivers to this state anymore, because there's no mechanism to verify if a person is ineligible under federal law.

WA's definitions

(11) "Firearm" means a weapon or device from which a projectile or projectiles may be fired by an explosive such as gunpowder. "Firearm" does not include a flare gun or other pyrotechnic visual distress signaling device, or a powder-actuated tool or other device designed solely to be used for construction purposes.
(33) "Undetectable firearm" means any firearm that is not as detectable as 3.7 ounces of 17-4 PH stainless steel by walk-through metal detectors or magnetometers commonly used at airports or any firearm where the barrel, the slide or cylinder, or the frame or receiver of the firearm would not generate an image that accurately depicts the shape of the part when examined by the types of X-ray machines commonly used at airports.
(35) "Untraceable firearm" means any firearm manufactured after July 1, 2019, that is not an antique firearm and that cannot be traced by law enforcement by means of a serial number affixed to the firearm by a federally licensed manufacturer or importer.
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