Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
BCM
Durkin Tactical Franklin Armory
User Panel

Site Notices
Arrow Left Previous Page
Page / 3
Posted: 6/29/2011 12:39:36 PM EDT
[Last Edit: dpmmn]
This thread is an offshoot of RanB's (link) initiative to legalize silencer possesion in Minnesota.
The goal of this thread is to create a simple, 1-page pamphlet, to be distributed and help inform people of the facts surrounding silencers in Minnesota.
Edited to Bold Title................dpmmn

 
Link Posted: 6/29/2011 12:54:34 PM EDT
[#1]
OUTLINE

1) What is a silencer?

a) How does a silencer work?
b) How WELL does a silencer work?
c) How do they compare to other methods of hearing protection?
d) How much does a silencer cost?

2) What is the current legal status of Silencer Ownership?

a) Federal Law

i)Form 1 procedures

b) State Law

i) Minnesota Regulations
ii) Regulations in other States

3) Why should Silencers be legal?

a) 2nd Amendment
b) Hearing Protection

4) Who will be able to own Silencers

1) Background check
2) Fingerprints
3) Registration with the Federal Government
Link Posted: 6/29/2011 1:00:38 PM EDT
[Last Edit: SultanOfBrunei] [#2]
That is a quick outline.

I am planning a tri-fold pamphlet. This means we will have 1 (2 if we do both sides) pages of information. Which is really 2/3 of each sheet when you include the front and back cover panels that should not include much information. This is NOT a lot of space because we will need to include graphics and use a larger than normal font to make it easy to read.

What information is NOT in that outline that you would tell your grandmother about in order to get her to support silencers in Minnesota. We need to use facts and figures, but we also cannot overwhelm the reader (who may never even held a gun.)
Link Posted: 6/29/2011 2:32:40 PM EDT
[#3]
I'm willing to help although I don't have any specific skills. I do like graphic design, and I like writing enough for a pamphlets worth.

I would like the analogy of a car muffler to be in the "how" section.
Link Posted: 6/29/2011 3:10:36 PM EDT
[#4]
I am more than willing to help in any way that's needed.  I would definitely site the OSHA threshold for hearing damage (I believe 130dB) and the fact that majority of suppressors reduce muzzle blast to around or below this level much more effectively than most hearing protection.
Link Posted: 6/29/2011 3:16:38 PM EDT
[#5]
Originally Posted By timmy_mpls:
I'm willing to help although I don't have any specific skills. I do like graphic design, and I like writing enough for a pamphlets worth.

I would like the analogy of a car muffler to be in the "how" section.

BOOM! You are assigned!

Write one paragraph about HOW a silencer works. Pretend that you are explaining it to your mom.
Link Posted: 6/29/2011 3:19:39 PM EDT
[#6]
Originally Posted By BC98:
I am more than willing to help in any way that's needed.  I would definitely site the OSHA threshold for hearing damage (I believe 130dB) and the fact that majority of suppressors reduce muzzle blast to around or below this level much more effectively than most hearing protection.

BOOM! You are assigned!

Write one paragraph about the safety benifits of using a suppressor.
Link Posted: 6/29/2011 4:50:27 PM EDT
[#7]
Originally Posted By SultanOfBrunei:
Originally Posted By BC98:
I am more than willing to help in any way that's needed.  I would definitely site the OSHA threshold for hearing damage (I believe 130dB) and the fact that majority of suppressors reduce muzzle blast to around or below this level much more effectively than most hearing protection.

BOOM! You are assigned!

Write one paragraph about the safety benifits of using a suppressor.


Will do.
Link Posted: 6/29/2011 5:56:19 PM EDT
[#8]
Link Posted: 6/29/2011 6:56:10 PM EDT
[#9]
I'll help with whatever.  I kin rite gud.
Link Posted: 6/29/2011 8:13:00 PM EDT
[#10]
Originally Posted By sjuhockey10:
I'll help with whatever.  I kin rite gud.

Do you want to be an author on the web page?

If so, IM me your gmail address.
Link Posted: 6/30/2011 2:12:20 AM EDT
[#11]
Originally Posted By SultanOfBrunei:
Originally Posted By timmy_mpls:
I'm willing to help although I don't have any specific skills. I do like graphic design, and I like writing enough for a pamphlets worth.

I would like the analogy of a car muffler to be in the "how" section.

BOOM! You are assigned!

Write one paragraph about HOW a silencer works. Pretend that you are explaining it to your mom.


Look it over please...

A suppressor, silencer, muffler, filter are all very similar in function. Their purpose is to reduce the ammount of something passing through it. In the instance of a firearm sound suppressor the sole function is to reduce the "loudness" of the firearm. A similar example is in a automobile. The muffler reduces the noise of the explosions exiting the engine as the fuel is burned. If you've ever seen a drag race, you'll know what open pipes (no mufflers) sounds like. A suppressor on a firearm is functionally the same. The suppressor reduces the sound from the explosion of the cartrige firing. It in no way makes it silent, or even quiet. Average sound levels of a suppressed firearm will still be louder than a lawn mower, and much closer to the "jet engine at takeoff" sound levels; not even close to silent. Refer to OSHA guidelines for damaging sound levels. http://www.oshax.org/info/articles/decibel-levels
Link Posted: 6/30/2011 8:30:29 AM EDT
[#12]
I like it. Pointing out that MN should be inline with WI and ND/SD and IA makes it appear more "mainstream".
Link Posted: 6/30/2011 12:53:26 PM EDT
[#13]
Originally Posted By norseman1:
I like it. Pointing out that MN should be inline with WI and ND/SD and IA makes it appear more "mainstream".


If you're speaking to suppressor ownership, IA does not allow civilian ownership, only Class II/III FFL ownership (per the AAC map).
Link Posted: 6/30/2011 1:16:02 PM EDT
[#14]
I posted this in the other silencer thread, but thought it would be appropriate here as well.

I didn't read all 5 pages of this thread, but those of you pushing for firearm silencers need to think of a new name for the device that isn't so scary to non-gun enthusiasts. You talk with a liberal or a FUDD about a "silencer" and they only can visualize some mafioso hit man wanting to be able to quietly murder someone.

Getting legislation that you want is all about the marketing of it.
Link Posted: 7/2/2011 4:31:19 PM EDT
[#15]
I like it so far.  It is a good idea to supply links to federal and MN laws to support what you are saying. No doubt there will be some people that have an opposing opinion, but by showing them the actual law, it educates them better than anything else.

Include a section for buying silencers on an ATF form 4 and tax free transfers on the ATF form 5 (inheiritence)

I would minimize emphasis on the 2nd amendment and concentrate on how MN is behind the times.  The target audience is not going to believe that the 2nd amendment supports an individual right to keep and bear arms no matter what the Supreme Court says.  I am not saying the 2nd amendment should be ignored in this pamphlet, but other things are more important.

Ensure that the MN regulations section emphasizes the excessive red tape the MN police and DNR have to go through to own a silencer compared to other states.  As far as I know, no other state regulates their police as much MN does for silencer possession.

You might want to make two versions.  One to print into a hard copy and another in Word or PDF format to e-mail.

Ranb
Link Posted: 7/2/2011 10:45:26 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Ranb] [#16]
How is this?  Simple enough?  Need more details?"  Let me know.


1.What is a firearm sound suppressor?
Minnesota law defines a suppressor as any device designed to silence or muffle the discharge of a firearm.  609.66 subd 1a.  
Federal law defines a silencer or muffler as any device for silencing, muffling, or diminishing the report of a portable firearm.  Title 18 Chapter 44 Section 101.

a) How does a suppressor work?
A suppressor works similar to an engine muffler.  It traps gun powder gases briefly, allowing them to expand and cool before being released to the atmosphere.

b)  How well does a suppressor work?
The best suppressors will reduce noise by 30 to 40 decibels.  A decibel is a logarithmic scale of sound pressure.  3 dB is a change of a factor of two, 10 dB is a factor of ten, 20 dB is a factor of one hundred.  Zero decibels is the lowest sound the human ear can detect, 60 dB is the level of a typical conversation, 100 DB is the typical noise of a factory.  OSHA recommends hearing protection when exposed to levels 84 dB or higher.  Since gun fire is of very short duration, some experts claim that hearing protection is required when gun shots are louder than 140 dB.

c) How well does a suppressor compare to other forms of hearing protection?
Typical hearing protectors such as ear plugs or ear muffs reduce noise by about 30 dB.  Using double hearing protection (plugs and muffs) will provide about 33 dB of protection.  A good suppressor will reduce noise by 30 to 40 decibels.

d) How much does a suppressor cost?
Suppressors cost about $200 to $3500 each depending on the application.  A suppressor made from aluminum for a small 22 caliber rim fire rifle will be much less expensive than one made for a high powered 50 caliber rifle.  Because of the $200 tax paid each time a suppressor is transferred to an unlicensed person and the other strict controls, American buyers want a suppressor that will last for years and be very effective.   This makes them expensive compared to other countries that control them little or not at all.

2. What is the current legal status of suppressor ownership.

a)  Federal law.  Buying/Making a suppressor; penalties.
i)  Suppressors are legal to own in the United States, but only as authorized by the BATFE.  Possession of an unregistered suppressor can result in a 10 year prison term or a $10,000 fine.  Criminal misuse can result in a life prison term and/or $250,000 fine.

ii)  Prior to buying a suppressor, an unlicensed individual must submit an application to transfer and register a firearm (ATF form 4).  The back of this form is signed by the Chief Law Enforcement Officer (CLEO) in the purchaser’s jurisdiction and sent in along with their photo, finger prints, certification of legal residence or citizenship and a check for $200.  It typically takes 3-6 months for approval.   The purchaser cannot take possession of the suppressor until the application is returned approved by the BATFE.

iii)  Prior to making a suppressor an unlicensed individual must submit an application to make and register a firearm (ATF form 1).  The procedure is the same as that shown for the ATF form 4.  The individual is not permitted to make any suppressor parts until the application is returned to them approved.

b)  Minnesota law.
i)  Minnesota is one of the 12 states that prohibit civilian possession of suppressors.  https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/?year=2010&id=609.66  
       Possession of a silencer carries a penalty of 2 years in prison and/or a $10,000 fine.

ii)  The police in Minnesota are permitted to use suppressors.  The DNR was permitted to use suppressors with certain restrictions until July 2011.

c)  Regulations in other states.
38 states allow civilians to own firearm suppressors.  AL, AR, AK, AZ, CO, CT, FL, GA, ID, IN, KS, KY, LA, ME, MD, MO (with C&R), MS, MT, NE, NV, NH, NM, NC, ND, OH, OK, OR, PA, SC, SD, TN, TX, UT, VA, WA, WV, WI, and WY.  They may be owned by Class 3 dealers and Class 2 manufacturers (but not individuals) in: CA, IA, MA, and MI.

Many states require that suppressors be registered in accordance with federal law to be legally possessed within the state.  It is impossible to legally own an unregistered suppressor in the United States.

3.   Why should suppressors be legal?

a)  Reducing firearm noise is beneficial.

i)  Firearms are very noisy.  A small 22 caliber pistol will be about 160 decibels and a high powered hunting rifle is about 170 decibels.  These levels can cause temporary or permanent hearing loss in a short period of time.  These noise levels are also disruptive to people living near shooting areas.
ii)  Hearing loss is one of the most common injuries associated with firearm use.  Shooting areas typically located in isolated areas are increasingly being encroached upon by homes and businesses.
iii)  All loud machinery can benefit greatly with the use of a muffler or other noise suppression device; firearms are no exception.

b)  Who can own suppressors?
Only those individuals authorized by the BATFE can possess suppressors.  A background check is performed prior to approval of the application to transfer the suppressor.  Each individual applying for authorization to buy or make a suppressor is finger printed.  The local sheriff also signs the back of the application indicating that there is no known reason why the individual can not possess the suppressor.  Only persons 18 years of age and older may possess suppressors.  Licensed dealers may not transfer suppressors to anyone under 21 years of age.

c)  Criminal misuse of suppressor is very rare.
Compared to the crime rates associated with other types of firearms.  The persons that take the time and expense of registering a legal suppressor are unlikely to jeopardize their rights to own a firearm by misusing a suppressor.  Illegal unregistered suppressors are readily available to criminals.  Allowing law abiding MN residents to possess registered suppressors will not cause crime rates to increase.

4.   Proposed change to Minnesota statute.

609.66 DANGEROUS WEAPONS

Subdivision 1. Misdemeanor and gross misdemeanor crimes.  
a)  Whoever does any of the following is guilty of a crime and may be sentenced as provided in paragraph (b):
b)  Subd. 1a.Felony crimes; silencers prohibited; reckless discharge.
c)  (a) Except as otherwise provided in subdivision 1h, whoever does any of the following is guilty of a felony and may be sentenced as provided in paragraph (b):
d)  (1) sells or has in possession any device designed to silence or muffle the discharge of a firearm; unless it is legally owned and registered in accordance with federal law.

Delete section 1h.


Ranb
Link Posted: 7/3/2011 12:27:52 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Ranb] [#17]
Here is a poster I made for the silencer shoot at the KRRC in WA on July 23rd.


Why own a silencer?

Firearms are very loud, as much as 170 decibels and more.  OSHA recommends hearing protection for continuous noise levels of 84 decibels and higher.  Some firearm experts recommend hearing protection for short duration impulse noise levels from firearms of 140 decibels and higher.  Using subsonic ammunition in a 22 caliber rim fire rifle will exceed this level.  Only CB (primer only, no powder) ammunition in a rifle will be safe to shoot without hearing protection.  

Even if the firearm noise is not physically painful, it can still be loud enough to cause hearing loss.  If you think you are getting used to loud noise levels over time, what it actually means is you are slowly going deaf.

Advantages of using a suppressor on a firearm.


1. Less noise.  A good suppressor reduces noise by 30-40 decibels so they can be all the hearing protection you may need.  This allows the shooter to hear other activity around them.  Using a suppressor along with ear plugs or ear muffs is an excellent way to provide superior double hearing protection when shooting high powered rifles, especially indoors or under weather protection.  Suppressors protect the hearing of all bystanders, even those persons that are not wearing hearing protection or wearing it improperly.  Suppressors also reduce sound levels near shooting areas.

2. Less recoil. Along with lowering the noise level, recoil and muzzle blast are considerably reduced.  This makes suppressors valuable training aids for novice shooters as they reduce or eliminate flinch.

Disadvantages of using a suppressor on a firearm.


1.Increased weight and length.  Suppressors weigh from six ounces to about three pounds depending on their size and materials used.  They need to extend beyond the muzzle in order to work.  Typical length added to the firearm is four to twelve inches.

2.Increased cost.  Suppressors cost between $200 and $3500.  Each one made or bought by an individual is taxed $200.  Making your own can save money, but requires access to machine tools for a quality job.

3.Increased barrel heating.  Suppressor use can accelerate barrel heat-up during rapid fire.  This can lead to reduced barrel life.  The barrel crown is the most susceptible to this wear.

4.Change in point of impact. Adding weight to the end of the barrel usually requires that scope or sight settings be adjusted to hit the target.  Using a suppressor that is properly mounted normally does not affect accuracy.

5.Increased fouling.  Gas operated actions are affected by the elevated pressure inside of the barrel when a suppressor is used.  Direct impingement actions like the AR-15 are prone to ejecting much more debris into the action and into the shooter’s face.  Increase fouling can lead to malfunctions.  Eye protection is absolutely required when using a suppressor on these types of actions.  An adjustable gas port can mitigate the increased gas pressure in the gas tube.

6.Potential for mishaps when incorrectly mounted.  A suppressor typically has a bore that may be only 0.050” larger than bullet diameter.  If the suppressor is not correctly attached and in line with the bore, the bullet will strike the internals and damage them.  At best this leads to poor accuracy, at worst it will destroy the suppressor and can injure the shooter or those nearby

7.Increased regulation.  In addition to the $200 tax, BATFE authorization is required prior to purchasing or making a suppressor.   Replacement parts (except wipes) cannot be made except by a licensed manufacturer or unless you pay an additional $200 tax.  Penalties for misuse can be very severe; twenty years to life and up to $250,000 in fines.  Mere possession of an unregistered suppressor can cost you ten years or $10,000.


Ranb
Link Posted: 7/3/2011 7:03:07 PM EDT
[#18]
I have absolutely no skills that would support this pamphlet.  But I can't write, spell, or draw.  I do have some info coming from my local sheriff concerning crime stats involving silencers.  I should hear back on Tues.  If that would be helpful to this thread topic, let me know where to send the info.

Rusty
Link Posted: 7/4/2011 1:14:16 PM EDT
[#19]
Like others, I don't have much in the way of skill but I'm willing to help the cause.  PM would probably work best but I'll try to check back in this thread.
Link Posted: 7/4/2011 8:07:47 PM EDT
[#20]
If you guys really want to help, the best thing you can do is hand it to your Representatve and Senator.  Do not mail it, hand it to them and discuss the contents for a brief time to ensure they understand what it is we want to do and why civilian silencer possession should be allowed.

Ranb
Link Posted: 7/5/2011 10:50:29 AM EDT
[#21]
RanB! Freaking AWESOME.
Link Posted: 7/6/2011 2:19:31 PM EDT
[#22]
Originally Posted By SultanOfBrunei:
Originally Posted By BC98:
I am more than willing to help in any way that's needed.  I would definitely site the OSHA threshold for hearing damage (I believe 130dB) and the fact that majority of suppressors reduce muzzle blast to around or below this level much more effectively than most hearing protection.

BOOM! You are assigned!

Write one paragraph about the safety benifits of using a suppressor.


Sorry it took me a while but here's a rough draft:

The primary safety benefit of firearm suppressors is the prevention of permanent hearing damage to shooters and those on the range around them.  The threshold established by the Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA) for permanent hearing damage from impulsive noise, such as gunshots, is 140dB.   Research from several suppressor companies and audiologists has found that an unsuppressed gunshot will typically be between 155 and 170dB, depending on the cartridge.  With a sound suppressor, the noise level of the muzzle blast is reduced to a much safer 130dB (on average), sometimes lower.  The noise reduction rating of most hearing protection currently on the market is typically between 18 and 30dB but is heavily dependent on correct fitment and proper application by the user.  So, if plugs are not installed correctly or ear muffs do not properly fit the user, their effectiveness is greatly reduced.  Sound suppressors are currently the most effective form of hearing protection available to a shooter and those around a shooting range.

I would add that the info that RanB has posted thus far in the thread is also outstanding.
Link Posted: 7/6/2011 4:26:05 PM EDT
[#23]
We need to be able to provide an authoritative source to back any claims we make.  I have not been able to find anything concrete on the 140 dB impulse noise limit.  If we are able to provide a good source for info, then we are less likely to be challenged.

Ranb
Link Posted: 7/6/2011 5:31:53 PM EDT
[Last Edit: BC98] [#24]
Originally Posted By Ranb:
We need to be able to provide an authoritative source to back any claims we make.  I have not been able to find anything concrete on the 140 dB impulse noise limit.  If we are able to provide a good source for info, then we are less likely to be challenged.

Ranb


I was able to find a couple of references :

http://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owadisp.show_document?p_table=STANDARDS&p_id=10625  [reference 1926.52(e)]

http://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owadisp.show_document?p_table=INTERPRETATIONS&p_id=20225  [about halfway down the letter]
Link Posted: 7/7/2011 5:28:40 PM EDT
[#25]
Originally Posted By BC98:
Originally Posted By SultanOfBrunei:
Originally Posted By BC98:
I am more than willing to help in any way that's needed.  I would definitely site the OSHA threshold for hearing damage (I believe 130dB) and the fact that majority of suppressors reduce muzzle blast to around or below this level much more effectively than most hearing protection.

BOOM! You are assigned!

Write one paragraph about the safety benifits of using a suppressor.


Sorry it took me a while but here's a rough draft:

The primary safety benefit of firearm suppressors is the prevention of permanent hearing damage to shooters and those on the range around them.  The threshold established by the Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA) for permanent hearing damage from impulsive noise, such as gunshots, is 140dB.   Research from several suppressor companies and audiologists has found that an unsuppressed gunshot will typically be between 155 and 170dB, depending on the cartridge.  With a sound suppressor, the noise level of the muzzle blast is reduced to a much safer 130dB (on average), sometimes lower.  The noise reduction rating of most hearing protection currently on the market is typically between 18 and 30dB but is heavily dependent on correct fitment and proper application by the user.  So, if plugs are not installed correctly or ear muffs do not properly fit the user, their effectiveness is greatly reduced.  Sound suppressors are currently the most effective form of hearing protection available to a shooter and those around a shooting range.

I would add that the info that RanB has posted thus far in the thread is also outstanding.


Looks good, but have you got sources for the suppressor manufacturers and audiologists that you mention?  We need to be able to cite this stuff.
Link Posted: 7/7/2011 5:31:04 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Puck] [#26]
We'll be opening a new website soon, please discontinue use of the blogspot site.
Link Posted: 7/8/2011 12:25:14 PM EDT
[#27]
Originally Posted By sjuhockey10:
Originally Posted By BC98:
Originally Posted By SultanOfBrunei:
Originally Posted By BC98:
I am more than willing to help in any way that's needed.  I would definitely site the OSHA threshold for hearing damage (I believe 130dB) and the fact that majority of suppressors reduce muzzle blast to around or below this level much more effectively than most hearing protection.

BOOM! You are assigned!

Write one paragraph about the safety benifits of using a suppressor.


Sorry it took me a while but here's a rough draft:

The primary safety benefit of firearm suppressors is the prevention of permanent hearing damage to shooters and those on the range around them.  The threshold established by the Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA) for permanent hearing damage from impulsive noise, such as gunshots, is 140dB.   Research from several suppressor companies and audiologists has found that an unsuppressed gunshot will typically be between 155 and 170dB, depending on the cartridge.  With a sound suppressor, the noise level of the muzzle blast is reduced to a much safer 130dB (on average), sometimes lower.  The noise reduction rating of most hearing protection currently on the market is typically between 18 and 30dB but is heavily dependent on correct fitment and proper application by the user.  So, if plugs are not installed correctly or ear muffs do not properly fit the user, their effectiveness is greatly reduced.  Sound suppressors are currently the most effective form of hearing protection available to a shooter and those around a shooting range.

I would add that the info that RanB has posted thus far in the thread is also outstanding.


Looks good, but have you got sources for the suppressor manufacturers and audiologists that you mention?  We need to be able to cite this stuff.


http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=1199823 (report mentioned in OP)
http://www.acoustics.org/press/159th/hale.htm
http://www.freehearingtest.com/hia_gunfirenoise.shtml

The majority of suppressor manufacturers list the dB reduction on their websites.
Link Posted: 7/8/2011 5:43:57 PM EDT
[#28]
Originally Posted By BC98:
Originally Posted By sjuhockey10:
Originally Posted By BC98:
Originally Posted By SultanOfBrunei:
Originally Posted By BC98:
I am more than willing to help in any way that's needed.  I would definitely site the OSHA threshold for hearing damage (I believe 130dB) and the fact that majority of suppressors reduce muzzle blast to around or below this level much more effectively than most hearing protection.

BOOM! You are assigned!

Write one paragraph about the safety benifits of using a suppressor.


Sorry it took me a while but here's a rough draft:

The primary safety benefit of firearm suppressors is the prevention of permanent hearing damage to shooters and those on the range around them.  The threshold established by the Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA) for permanent hearing damage from impulsive noise, such as gunshots, is 140dB.   Research from several suppressor companies and audiologists has found that an unsuppressed gunshot will typically be between 155 and 170dB, depending on the cartridge.  With a sound suppressor, the noise level of the muzzle blast is reduced to a much safer 130dB (on average), sometimes lower.  The noise reduction rating of most hearing protection currently on the market is typically between 18 and 30dB but is heavily dependent on correct fitment and proper application by the user.  So, if plugs are not installed correctly or ear muffs do not properly fit the user, their effectiveness is greatly reduced.  Sound suppressors are currently the most effective form of hearing protection available to a shooter and those around a shooting range.

I would add that the info that RanB has posted thus far in the thread is also outstanding.


Looks good, but have you got sources for the suppressor manufacturers and audiologists that you mention?  We need to be able to cite this stuff.


http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=1199823 (report mentioned in OP)
http://www.acoustics.org/press/159th/hale.htm
http://www.freehearingtest.com/hia_gunfirenoise.shtml

The majority of suppressor manufacturers list the dB reduction on their websites.


Cool, thanks.  I'll get this up on the website over the weekend.
Link Posted: 7/30/2011 1:27:11 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Ranb] [#29]
Here is what I hope is my final draft of the info pamphlet.  Tell me what I need to do better.  I can e-mail or snail mail it to anyone who wants it.

A Proposal to Amend Restrictions on the Possession of Firearm Sound Suppressors by the Police, DNR and Civilians in Minnesota

What is a firearm sound suppressor?

Minnesota law defines a suppressor as any device designed to silence or muffle the discharge of a firearm. 609.66 subd 1a.

Federal law defines a suppressor (legally defined as a silencer or muffler) as any device for silencing, muffling, or diminishing the report of a portable firearm. Title 18 Chapter 44 Section 101.

How does a suppressor work?

A suppressor works similar to an internal combustion engine muffler. It traps gun powder gases briefly, allowing them to expand and cool before being released to the atmosphere.

How well does a suppressor work?

The best suppressors will reduce noise by 30 to 40 decibels. A decibel is a logarithmic scale of sound pressure. 3 dB is a change by a factor of two, 10 dB is a factor of ten, 20 dB is a factor of one hundred. Zero decibels is the lowest sound the human ear can detect, 60 dB is the level of a typical conversation, 100 DB is the typical noise of a factory. OSHA recommends hearing protection when exposed to levels 84 dB or higher. Since gun fire is of very short duration, some experts claim that hearing protection is required when gun shots are louder than 140 dB.

A suppressor only reduces muzzle blast noise and does nothing to reduce action noise or bullet flight noise.  Typical hunting rifles equipped with a suppressor are at least 130 decibels and may require hearing protection to use safely.

How well does a suppressor compare to other forms of hearing protection?

Hearing protectors such as ear plugs or ear muffs reduce noise by about 30 dB. Using double hearing protection (plugs and muffs) will provide about 33 dB of protection. A good suppressor will reduce noise by 30 to 40 decibels.

How much does a suppressor cost?

Suppressors usually cost about $200 to $1500 each depending on the application. A suppressor made for a small 22 caliber rim fire rifle will be much less expensive than one made for a high powered rifle. Because of the $200 tax paid each time a suppressor is transferred to an unlicensed person and the other strict controls, American buyers want a suppressor that is very durable. This makes them expensive compared to other countries that have few controls on firearm suppressors.

What does federal law say about suppressor ownership?

No one can possess a suppressor unless authorized by the BATFE. Possession of an unregistered suppressor can result in a 10 year prison term or a $10,000 fine. Criminal misuse can result in a life prison term and/or $250,000 fine.

What does Minnesota law say about suppressor possession?

Minnesota is one of the 12 states that prohibit possession of suppressors with a few exceptions.  Possession of a silencer carries a penalty of 2 years in prison and/or a $10,000 fine.

The police in Minnesota are permitted to use suppressors only for tactical response operations requiring stealth.  Minnesota law does not permit their use for any other reason including training purposes. While nearly every other state in the Union permits the police to use registered suppressors for any legal purpose, Minnesota restricts their use by the police.

The DNR was permitted to use suppressors with certain restrictions until July 2011.  The bill that would have eliminated the date restriction and other requirements was not passed by the Minnesota legislature in 2011.




Suppressor regulations in other states.

38 states allow civilians to own firearm suppressors. AL, AR, AK, AZ, CO, CT, FL, GA, ID, IN, KS, KY, LA, ME, MD, MO (with C&R), MS, MT, NE, NV, NH, NM, NC, ND, OH, OK, OR, PA, SC, SD, TN, TX, UT, VA, WA, WV, WI, and WY. They may be owned by Class 3 dealers and Class 2 manufacturers (but not individuals) in: CA, IA, MA, and MI.

Many states require that suppressors be registered in accordance with federal law to be legally possessed within the state. It is impossible to legally own an unregistered suppressor in the United States.

What are the benefits of suppressor use?

Firearms are very noisy. A small 22 caliber pistol will be about 160 decibels and a high powered hunting rifle is about 170 decibels. These levels can cause temporary or permanent hearing loss in a short period of time. These noise levels are also disruptive to people living near shooting areas.

Hearing loss is one of the most common injuries associated with firearm use. Shooting areas typically located in isolated areas are increasingly being encroached upon by homes and businesses.

All loud machinery can benefit greatly with the use of a muffler or other noise suppression device; firearms are no exception.

Who can own suppressors?

Only those individuals authorized by the BATFE can possess suppressors. Each individual applying for authorization to buy a suppressor is finger printed. The local sheriff also signs the back of the application indicating that there is no known reason why the individual can not possess the suppressor.  A background check is performed prior to approval of the application to transfer the suppressor.  The applications process typically takes about three to six months.  Persons 18 years of age and older may possess suppressors. Licensed firearm dealers may not transfer suppressors to anyone under 21 years of age.

How often are suppressors associated with crime?

Compared to the crime rates associated with other types of firearms, criminal misuse of suppressors in the United States is very rare. History has shown that Americans who take the time and expense of registering a legal suppressor are unlikely to jeopardize their right to own a firearm by misusing it.





Less than one half of one percent of firearm crime in the United States is related to suppressor possession.  By far most suppressor related crime is merely simple possession of unregistered suppressors that are not involved in violent crime.


Proposed change to Minnesota statute.

609.66 DANGEROUS WEAPONS.

Subdivision 1.Misdemeanor and gross misdemeanor crimes.
(a) Whoever does any of the following is guilty of a crime and may be sentenced as provided in paragraph (b):

Subd. 1a.Felony crimes; silencers prohibited; reckless discharge.
(a) Except as otherwise provided in subdivision 1h, whoever does any of the following is guilty of a felony and may be sentenced as provided in paragraph (b):
(1) sells or has in possession any device designed to silence or muffle the discharge of a firearm, unless it is legally owned and registered in accordance with federal law;

Subd. 1h.Silencers; authorized for law enforcement and wildlife control purposes.
(a) Notwithstanding subdivision 1a, paragraph (a), clause (1), licensed peace officers may use devices designed to silence or muffle the discharge of a firearm for tactical emergency response operations. Tactical emergency response operations include execution of high risk search and arrest warrants, incidents of terrorism, hostage rescue, and any other tactical deployments involving high risk circumstances. The chief law enforcement officer of a law enforcement agency that has the need to use silencing devices must establish and enforce a written policy governing the use of the devices.

(b) (a)Notwithstanding subdivision 1a, paragraph (a), clause (1), until July 1, 2011, an   An enforcement officer, as defined in section 97A.015, subdivision 18, a wildlife area manager, an employee designated under section 84.0835, or a person acting under contract with the commissioner of natural resources, at specific times and locations that are authorized by the commissioner of natural resources may use devices designed to silence or muffle the discharge of a firearm for wildlife control operations that require stealth. If the commissioner determines that the use of silencing devices is necessary under this paragraph, the commissioner must:

(1) establish and enforce a written policy governing the use, possession, and transportation of the devices;
(2) limit the number of the silencing devices maintained by the Department of Natural Resources to no more than ten; and
(3) keep direct custody and control of the devices when the devices are not specifically authorized for use.


97B.031 USE AND POSSESSION OF FIREARMS.

Subd. 4.Silencers prohibited.
Except as provided in section 609.66, subdivision 1h, a person may not own or possess use a silencer for a firearm or a firearm equipped to have a silencer attached.   to take a protected game animal.

Effects of easing restrictions on suppressor possession.

Amending Minnesota statutes to bring them into line with federal law will do several things.  The Minnesota police will be permitted to possess and utilize suppressors for any training and tactical operations they see fit.  The DNR will be permitted to use suppressors for animal control operations that require stealth.  Civilians will be permitted to use them to protect their hearing and reduce the sound levels near shooting areas.

Possible threat to wildlife by poachers using suppressors.

As suppressors are simple devices that are easy to manufacture, they are readily available to those who want them.  Poachers who already ignore the law are unlikely to be deterred by penalties for suppressor use.  Minnesota law prohibits the use of suppressor while hunting, registered or not.  Allowing the police and other civilians to possess suppressors for legal purposes is not likely to encourage poaching. Suppressors do not make a hunting rifle silent.  Typical big game huting rifles may still be loud enough to require hearing protect even when equipped with a suppressor.


When printed in MS Word format, it is only two pages.

Ranb
Link Posted: 7/31/2011 9:59:35 PM EDT
[#30]
Originally Posted By Ranb:
Here is what I hope is my final draft of the info pamphlet.  Tell me what I need to do better.  I can e-mail or snail mail it to anyone who wants it.

...

When printed in MS Word format, it is only two pages.

Ranb



Man, that is great, Thank you!
Link Posted: 8/1/2011 12:52:37 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Ranb] [#31]
I had to make another change to it.  MN statutes are driving me nuts.  97b.031 is in the hunting section of the MN statutes.  In addition to prohibiting silencers while hunting, it also prohibits mere possession, so that has to be changed too.

I should have my silencer education video out next week.

Ranb
Link Posted: 9/11/2011 10:59:17 AM EDT
[Last Edit: lund0529] [#32]
How about something that says what a suppressor is not? (i.e. Hollywood)

#1 Here:
http://www.cracked.com/article_18576_5-ridiculous-gun-myths-everyone-believes-thanks-to-movies.html
Link Posted: 9/13/2011 9:29:08 AM EDT
[#33]
Can you be more specific?

Ranb
Link Posted: 11/6/2011 7:17:12 PM EDT
[#34]
Ranb, It would be wonderful to legalize them here in MN.  What can I do to help?
Link Posted: 11/7/2011 10:29:44 AM EDT
[Last Edit: MNSwede] [#35]
Minnesota LEOs and Wildlife agents are able to get them

in countries with strict firearms regulations, they are still legal and sometimes required such as finland and the UK

cuts down on sound pollution from ranges

shot detection technologies installed by some cities can still track suppressed gunshots


edit: of and hi I'm new. long time lurker though
Link Posted: 11/7/2011 4:47:24 PM EDT
[#36]
Originally Posted By MNSwede:
Minnesota LEOs and Wildlife agents are able to get them


This part is interesting.  The provision for DNR officers expired on July 1 of this year and the bills that would eliminate that sunset died in committee.  Yet somehow it was passed in the Special Session that (I'm assuming) occurred during the Gov't shutdown in July.  

Were the bills re-introduced in the House & Senate or just fast tracked through the the committees?  Anyone know for sure?  I
Link Posted: 11/15/2011 5:42:40 PM EDT
[Last Edit: sbl23] [#37]
I am interested in helping out with this. I have talked to Ranb over on MNGT briefly. It looks like you guys are looking to help setup a website. I tossed this idea around with Ranb also. Maybe setting up a website and posting/passing out flyers with the url at the local ranges to get some of our own in line to help out with this.
Link Posted: 12/28/2011 3:27:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: iNuhBaDNayburhood] [#38]
Link Posted: 1/6/2012 5:13:17 PM EDT
[#39]
Originally Posted By boreal:
Ranb, It would be wonderful to legalize them here in MN.  What can I do to help?


Meet with your Senator and ask him/her to support Senator Wolf.  Wolf said she would sponsor a silencer bill if she got support.

Ranb

Link Posted: 1/6/2012 5:16:16 PM EDT
[#40]
Originally Posted By iNuhBaDNayburhood:

Originally Posted By MNSwede:
Minnesota LEOs and Wildlife agents are able to get them

Indeed they are...


609.66 used (earlier this year) to say in part;
Notwithstanding subdivision 1a, paragraph (a), clause (1), until July 1, 2011, an enforcement officer, as defined in section 97A.015, subdivision 18, a wildlife area manager, an employee designated under section 84.0835, or a person acting under contract with the commissioner of natural resources, at specific times and locations that are authorized by the commissioner of natural resources may use devices designed to silence or muffle the discharge of a firearm for wildlife control operations that require stealth.

So after July and until now, the DNR was as SOL as the rest of us.  They passed a bill in the last session that removed the July 2011 expiration date and some other red tape.  Now the DNR has fewer restrictions than the police does.

Ranb

Link Posted: 2/28/2012 8:50:11 PM EDT
[#41]
Count one more MN Boy in on helping to get this passed.
Link Posted: 3/12/2012 2:10:57 PM EDT
[#42]
Originally Posted By bj426:
Count one more MN Boy in on helping to get this passed.


Ditto.

As soon as I close on my house and get my ass settled, I plan on contacting all of my reps (except Frankenstein) and getting on their case.

It was a wet dream for me to walk through Cabelas this weekend and see I'll the non-ban stuff that I can actually own now. SBR's are in my future, and I long for a can or three...
Link Posted: 9/15/2012 10:43:49 PM EDT
[#43]
Is this issue dead or are we pushing froward?
Link Posted: 12/16/2012 9:40:57 PM EDT
[#44]
assume this movement is on ice since the dems control everything right now?
Link Posted: 12/16/2012 10:40:34 PM EDT
[#45]
Link Posted: 12/16/2012 11:23:31 PM EDT
[#46]
Originally Posted By g33kfu:
assume this movement is on ice since the dems control everything right now?


Yep.
Link Posted: 12/18/2012 10:09:16 PM EDT
[#47]
bites.  i want one
Link Posted: 12/19/2012 8:04:59 PM EDT
[#48]
Link Posted: 12/19/2012 8:05:18 PM EDT
[Last Edit: dpmmn] [#49]
temp lock..............dpmmn
Link Posted: 3/29/2013 7:11:58 PM EDT
[Last Edit: dpmmn] [#50]
dpmmn
Arrow Left Previous Page
Page / 3
Close Join Our Mail List to Stay Up To Date! Win a FREE Membership!

Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!

You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.


By signing up you agree to our User Agreement. *Must have a registered ARFCOM account to win.
Top Top