Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
BCM
Member Login

Site Notices
Posted: 6/20/2021 10:05:40 PM EDT
Where in dfw is GTG for sbr engraving?   What is required per the AFT?
Link Posted: 6/20/2021 10:07:10 PM EDT
Mister guns in Plano used to do them while you waited.
Link Posted: 6/20/2021 10:16:01 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/20/2021 10:20:38 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By mPisi:
https://www.identmarking.com/
View Quote



That's who I have used for SBR's and Suppressors. They do markings for several manufacturers and overall they are a great company that I recommend to everyone.
Link Posted: 6/20/2021 10:56:51 PM EDT
Was hoping to get it done while I wait.  I looked at Ident, bit of a drive but doable.
Link Posted: 6/21/2021 1:17:52 AM EDT
I've used Capitol Armory 3 times, very fast and reasonable price for good work.
Link Posted: 6/21/2021 11:02:31 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By smoke14me:



That's who I have used for SBR's and Suppressors. They do markings for several manufacturers and overall they are a great company that I recommend to everyone.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By smoke14me:
Originally Posted By mPisi:
https://www.identmarking.com/



That's who I have used for SBR's and Suppressors. They do markings for several manufacturers and overall they are a great company that I recommend to everyone.

Same here, I have used them for the engraving on both my SBR projects - fast, fair price with great work and customer service.

Give them a call - on some weeknights they stay open late and will do engraving while you wait.
Link Posted: 6/21/2021 12:20:05 PM EDT
Yep, while you wait tue and thur 5-9 cash only.

Thanks guys
Link Posted: 6/21/2021 12:45:40 PM EDT
The knife store on 820 will do it while you wait.  I dont think they have an FFL so that's the only way they can do it.  
Link Posted: 6/21/2021 1:30:48 PM EDT
House of Blades, forgot about them.
Link Posted: 6/21/2021 5:32:37 PM EDT
+1 for Ident if you want it done right.  They are usually busy but they do a kick ass job.  I took all my SBRs there for engraving and it looks really good compared to what my friends had done.






Link Posted: 6/21/2021 8:44:41 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By 762AR25:
I've used Capitol Armory 3 times, very fast and reasonable price for good work.
View Quote


Didn't realize Cedar Park was in the DFW metro area.
Link Posted: 6/21/2021 9:34:53 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/21/2021 9:35:26 PM EDT by Joethe33]
Originally Posted By Holdemdown:
Where in dfw is GTG for sbr engraving?   What is required per the AFT?
View Quote


The truth is, is that the language about SBRs and engraving them is a grey area. You could easily not do it and be 100%. The manufacturer’s marking does suffice.

You will hear the opposite. Though because it is a grey area, quite a few people do it “just in case.”

I would ask those same people if they’ve ever had an ATF agent come to their home to check their SBRs to see if they’re engraved.
Link Posted: 6/21/2021 11:50:25 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By electrojk:


Didn't realize Cedar Park was in the DFW metro area.
View Quote


You can send it in.  I sent them an SR25 lower the week before last and they turned it around same day.

I live 5 hours away from Austin and 4 from DFW.  I've had some done in person if the schedule allows but shipping is quick with the right vendor.
Link Posted: 6/22/2021 7:05:41 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/22/2021 1:27:55 PM EDT by Holdemdown]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Joethe33:




You will hear the opposite. Though because it is a grey area, quite a few people do it “just in case.”

I would ask those same people if they’ve ever had an ATF agent come to their home to check their SBRs to see if they’re engraved.
View Quote


By that logic we shouldn't bother following any nfa laws.
See below
Link Posted: 6/22/2021 7:12:07 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/22/2021 2:09:03 PM EDT by Holdemdown]
Incorrect information removed, see below
Link Posted: 6/22/2021 10:43:44 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Holdemdown:


By that logic we shouldn't bother following any nfa laws.
View Quote


This guy gets it!



..



In all seriousness though, you have failed to grasp my logic. Read through the thread and do some Google searching.
Link Posted: 6/22/2021 10:56:39 AM EDT
Guess I've been marking my stuff needlessly.

At least they are all hidden.
Link Posted: 6/22/2021 11:50:57 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/22/2021 11:51:37 AM EDT by Joethe33]
I always assumed that message got silenced because of indent being a site sponsor.

I’m calling Ivory Hecker if anyone messes with me.
Link Posted: 6/22/2021 1:00:35 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Joethe33:


The truth is, is that the language about SBRs and engraving them is a grey area. You could easily not do it and be 100%. The manufacturer’s marking does suffice.

You will hear the opposite. Though because it is a grey area, quite a few people do it “just in case.”

I would ask those same people if they’ve ever had an ATF agent come to their home to check their SBRs to see if they’re engraved.
View Quote

Malarky.
There is no "grey area".
ATF regs clearly state what is required of the maker of an NFA firearm.
There are 87 threads on this.
Link Posted: 6/22/2021 1:22:56 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By DogtownTom:

Malarky.
There is no "grey area".
ATF regs clearly state what is required of the maker of an NFA firearm.
There are 87 threads on this.
View Quote


87 threads must be wrong then.

Do you work for Ident Marking?
Link Posted: 6/22/2021 1:28:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/22/2021 2:10:25 PM EDT by Holdemdown]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Joethe33:





..



In all seriousness though, you have failed to grasp my logic. Read through the thread and do some Google searching.
View Quote


Did you not see my post below that one saying you're right?  wrong, wrong wrong wrong, wrong!  Lol
Link Posted: 6/22/2021 1:29:11 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Holdemdown:
Joethe, looks like you are correct, sort of.

https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/do-you-need-to-engrave-your-form-1ed-sbr/
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Holdemdown:
Joethe, looks like you are correct, sort of.

https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/do-you-need-to-engrave-your-form-1ed-sbr/

The Truth About Guns should be named Bullshit About Guns.......cause they were wrong in 2016 and still wrong.


Any time a firearm (such as an SBR or machine gun) is manufactured with the intent of sale in interstate commerce, the ATF requires that it be marked with the manufacturer’s name and location as well as a serial number. Those individuals who manufacture 80% lower receivers into finished firearms may be familiar with this specific wrinkle, since their guns don’t require any markings until the moment they decide to try to sell them.

Well, TTAG is wrong in his first paragraph. ATF requires firearms to be marked with certain information even if not intended for sale in interstate commerce.
Secondly, individuals don't "manufacturer", they "make"........manufacturing firearms requires a license. When the article was written there was no requirement for a maker of a Title I firearm to engrave that firearm. There is a recent proposal by ATF to require marking.



When it comes to making a short-barreled rifle from an existing firearm (like an AR-15 lower you bought complete), things get a little murkier. The original manufacturer’s information is already stamped on the side of the gun. That original stamping satisfies the ATF’s requirements for the Title I firearm, but what about when the firearm transitions to a Title II weapon and becomes an NFA item?

According to the ATF, the process of creating an NFA device (even if it only means adding a stock to the gun) constitutes “remanufacturing” the firearm.

No, it doesn't. ATF doesn't use the term "remanufacture". Here's why.....it is already "manufactured" and marked according to ATF requirements. A nonlicensee intending to make an SBR from an existing Title I firearm files a Form 1 as the "maker" of an NFA fiream and on approval makes the Title I firearm into an SBR......he doesn't "remanufacture" jack squat.


As such, you (the maker of a firearm and the person who filed the Form 1) become the licensed manufacturer of the NFA gun. In theory, this means that the firearm needs your information (name or trust name and city/state) marked on it as well, but according to the ATF, that might not be the case.

Sigh. TTAG is so TTAG.
Just read that first sentence a couple of times. Let it soak in. Let the journalistic quality of the 3rd grade student newsletter cogitate.
A person making an NFA firearm on a Form 1 IS NOT A LICENSED MANUFACTURER!!!  Unless of course, you ARE an 07FFL/SOT (a licensed manufacturer), who doesn't use a Form 1 because he doesn't fucking need to apply for permission or pay a tax that's why he pays his yearly SOT.
If TTAG had read the title of the Form 1 they would know this. But hey, its TTAG and the truth takes a back seat or as in this "article" get left behind completely.

 

 

If you manufacture a NFA device from an existing firearm, according to the ATF you DO NOT need to immediately engrave your information into the firearm. Much like how firearms manufactured from a 80% lower receiver don’t require engraving upon completion, the ATF believes that the mere act of manufacture of an existing NFA device doesn’t require additional engraving. The existing serial number is sufficient for identification.

Horseshit.
The author, is confusing the making of NFA firearms with the making of Title I guns. The marking requirements are different.



So, when do you need to engrave your Form 1’ed SBR? The answer: when you intend to sell it. The same holds true for a silencer if you made application to make it yourself. Engraving requirements apply to firearms that are intended for sale in interstate commerce, so when you go to sell your gun you’re going to need to have it engraved.

Wrong. You engrave an NFA firearm when made, not when sold. Remember, you aren't a licensed dealer or manufacturer so you don't manufacture or make firearms "for sale".


An interesting wrinkle is that this applies even if you have removed the NFA device from the registry. According to the ATF the moment the firearm is returned to a Title I state (a rifle with a 16-inch barrel, for example) the gun is no longer a registered NFA device, but the approved form registration record remains in their database.

The firearm remains in the NFA Registry, but a notation is made that it is no longer in NFA configuration.


To have it removed you need to send them a letter notifying them of the disposition of the firearm and they will send a response in about…4 to 6 months. Even if your SBR has been removed from the registry AND you already have the letter in hand, the fact that it was remanufactured as an SBR at some point means your information needs to be on it.

Again, the firearm is not "removed from the Registry", only a notation is made.
Again, it is not "remanufactured" at any point....ever.


In short, if you don’t intend to sell your new firearm after turning it into an NFA device, you don’t need to engrave it. But if you ever sell it later (even after removing it from the registry), you will need to use an engraver and put the proper identification on it with the proper minimum depth and print size and in the proper location, such as the mag well for a rifle. 

in short, completely wrong.
Read the Form 1:
k. Description of Firearm and Markings. (1) Item 4a. If you are modifying
an existing firearm, enter the name and location of the original manufacturer.
If you are creating the firearm, enter the maker’s name, city and state.
(2) Item 4b. The types of NFA firearms are listed in the definitions; (3)
Item 4c. Specify one caliber or gauge. If there is another designation,
indicate the designation in item 4h. (4) Item 4d. Show the model
designation (if known). (5) Item 4e and 4f. Specify one barrel length and
overall length in items 4e and 4f as applicable. Note: if the firearm has a
folding or collapsible stock, the overall measurement is to be made with
the stock extended. (6) Item 4g. Do not alter or modify the serial number
of an existing firearm . Enter the existing serial number or, if a new
firearm, one you create. (7) Markings: The maker is required to mark the
firearm with the maker’s name, city and state as shown in item 3b. All
markings are to be in compliance with 27 CFR 478.92 and 479.102


 
Link Posted: 6/22/2021 1:29:47 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Joethe33:
87 threads must be wrong then.

Do you work for Ident Marking?
View Quote


There is no grey area, and folks have had items confiscated and I know of at least one in prison.

TonyK has a great story about a guy who got his firearm confiscated for no engraving.
Link Posted: 6/22/2021 1:30:54 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Joethe33:


87 threads must be wrong then.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Joethe33:
Originally Posted By DogtownTom:

Malarky.
There is no "grey area".
ATF regs clearly state what is required of the maker of an NFA firearm.
There are 87 threads on this.


87 threads must be wrong then.

Tell us why ATF an the 87 threads are wrong and you are correct.

Do you work for Ident Marking?

Nope.
Link Posted: 6/22/2021 1:32:28 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By DogtownTom:
The Truth About Guns should be named Bullshit About Guns.......
View Quote


Amen.

Add in a few lawyer web sites too.
Link Posted: 6/22/2021 1:34:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/22/2021 1:39:23 PM EDT by Holdemdown]
Nevermind.....
Link Posted: 6/22/2021 1:37:53 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Holdemdown:


Nowhere does it say SBR, also says "when sold".  Its clear as mud.

Surprised nobody has a determination letter or similar.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Holdemdown:
Originally Posted By DogtownTom:

Malarky.
There is no "grey area".
ATF regs clearly state what is required of the maker of an NFA firearm.
There are 87 threads on this.


Nowhere does it say SBR, also says "when sold".  Its clear as mud.

Surprised nobody has a determination letter or similar.

Good grief man. You do know that an SBR IS an NFA firearm right?
Link Posted: 6/22/2021 1:40:22 PM EDT
Ok, looks like engraving it is.  Uncle
Link Posted: 6/22/2021 1:41:23 PM EDT
Do I have to engrave my full name?  Or will initials do?
Link Posted: 6/22/2021 1:42:13 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/22/2021 1:42:28 PM EDT by Holdemdown]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By RenegadeX:


There is no grey area, and folks have had items confiscated and I know of at least one in prison.

TonyK has a great story about a guy who got his firearm confiscated for no engraving.
View Quote


Would like to read that, got a link?
Link Posted: 6/22/2021 1:47:34 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Holdemdown:
Do I have to engrave my full name?  Or will initials do?
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Holdemdown:
Do I have to engrave my full name?  Or will initials do?

(7) Markings: The maker is required to mark the
firearm with the maker’s name, city and state as shown in item 3b. All
markings are to be in compliance with 27 CFR 478.92 and 479.102
Link Posted: 6/22/2021 1:48:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/22/2021 3:45:24 PM EDT by RenegadeX]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Holdemdown:
Would like to read that, got a link?
View Quote


It was in either the DOJ or ATF Press Releases where they do a brief on significant prosecutions. I have been subscribed for years so I do not know which one it was.

the tony_k story is it was confiscated and they electro-penciled the engraving info for him and sent it back in lieu of prosecution.

eta
“him” meaning the person with not engrave gun, not tony_k
Link Posted: 6/22/2021 2:06:59 PM EDT
Thanks for posting the correct info
Link Posted: 6/22/2021 5:46:01 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By JoeMal:
Mister guns in Plano used to do them while you waited.
View Quote



That's who I used. It seriously took like two minutes.
Link Posted: 6/25/2021 4:30:14 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Holdemdown:
House of Blades, forgot about them.
View Quote


Ive used them twice.  GTG
Link Posted: 7/2/2021 3:16:50 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By JoeMal:
Mister guns in Plano used to do them while you waited.
View Quote


They did while I wait (15min) for me this am.

Great recommendation!
An error occurred on the server when processing the URL. Please contact the system administrator.

If you are the system administrator please click here to find out more about this error.