Posted: 9/1/2026 4:43:44 PM EDT
| I just had the final interview for a position in this area today; it seems as though it went well and I'm hoping to receive an offer soon. Figured I'd stop into the HTF and see if anyone here is local. I went to school in Missouri a while ago and am excited to be possibly moving back; Arizona wore out its welcome. |
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Until you get a local reply, here's a couple links from the tacked thread you could read through; https://www.ar15.com/forums/hometown/Tell-me-about-Missouri-/32-659784/ https://www.ar15.com/forums/Hometown/What-s-the-good-bad-and-ugly-of-living-in-Missouri-/32-664575/ |
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Originally Posted By 67Firebird: Until you get a local reply, here's a couple links from the tacked thread you could read through; https://www.ar15.com/forums/hometown/Tell-me-about-Missouri-/32-659784/ https://www.ar15.com/forums/Hometown/What-s-the-good-bad-and-ugly-of-living-in-Missouri-/32-664575/ Appreciate it, I just read through both. Bet I'll be going through a ridiculous amount of permethrin. |
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Originally Posted By sabocat: Appreciate it, I just read through both. Bet I'll be going through a ridiculous amount of permethrin. You'd better be if you like meat.  Are you in the mining industry? That's some sparsely populated area and there's not much else going on there. |
"The two things men never get to old to play with, electric trains and boobies." - substandard
"It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so." - Mark Twain
"It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so." - Mark Twain
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Originally Posted By Chris_1522: You'd better be if you like meat. Are you in the mining industry? That's some sparsely populated area and there's not much else going on there. Heh. My first thought when I read the thread was “holy crap, OP found the only job in iron county!” Great area. I’m a little jealous of the OP to be honest. I spent an immodest part of my youth wandering the hills of iron and Reynolds county. ETA - there’s a cool gun shop/gas station combo in Arcadia that you’ll have to visit at least once. |
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Originally Posted By sabocat: I just had the final interview for a position in this area today; it seems as though it went well and I'm hoping to receive an offer soon. Figured I'd stop into the HTF and see if anyone here is local. I went to school in Missouri a while ago and am excited to be possibly moving back; Arizona wore out its welcome. Do I remember correct that you are a radio guy? K9-Bob moved near there I believe. Might shoot him a message. |
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Originally Posted By Chris_1522: You'd better be if you like meat. Are you in the mining industry? That's some sparsely populated area and there's not much else going on there. Originally Posted By Chris_1522: You'd better be if you like meat. Are you in the mining industry? That's some sparsely populated area and there's not much else going on there. I sure am. The industry is starting to ramp back up around there and a lot of DoW money is flowing on the metals side. Iron Mountain is getting a traprock mill as well. Originally Posted By JAD762: Heh. My first thought when I read the thread was “holy crap, OP found the only job in iron county!” Great area. I’m a little jealous of the OP to be honest. I spent an immodest part of my youth wandering the hills of iron and Reynolds county. ETA - there’s a cool gun shop/gas station combo in Arcadia that you’ll have to visit at least once. We flew out for a week last year and bought most of our plinking ammo there in order to not upset the airline. It looks as though we'll be surrounded by conservation areas and USFS land and I can't wait. The BLM ground around us here is mostly flat low desert with lots of creosote bushes, not good for much and no shade. It's an hour's drive to higher country. Ticks are an acceptable trade for hills and trees! |
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Originally Posted By sabocat: Yes, you do. I'll have to reach out to him. Are you still over by Fredericktown? I am on the KC side of the state. There is another guy in the ham section in that town though...... his name escapes me. Into gmrs/vhf/uhf clubs i think. Maybe works in microwave rf in some capacity. |
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Originally Posted By sabocat: I sure am. The industry is starting to ramp back up around there and a lot of DoW money is flowing on the metals side. Iron Mountain is getting a traprock mill as well. We flew out for a week last year and bought most of our plinking ammo there in order to not upset the airline. It looks as though we'll be surrounded by conservation areas and USFS land and I can't wait. The BLM ground around us here is mostly flat low desert with lots of creosote bushes, not good for much and no shade. It's an hour's drive to higher country. Ticks are an acceptable trade for hills and trees! Originally Posted By sabocat: Originally Posted By Chris_1522: You'd better be if you like meat. Are you in the mining industry? That's some sparsely populated area and there's not much else going on there. I sure am. The industry is starting to ramp back up around there and a lot of DoW money is flowing on the metals side. Iron Mountain is getting a traprock mill as well. Originally Posted By JAD762: Heh. My first thought when I read the thread was “holy crap, OP found the only job in iron county!” Great area. I’m a little jealous of the OP to be honest. I spent an immodest part of my youth wandering the hills of iron and Reynolds county. ETA - there’s a cool gun shop/gas station combo in Arcadia that you’ll have to visit at least once. We flew out for a week last year and bought most of our plinking ammo there in order to not upset the airline. It looks as though we'll be surrounded by conservation areas and USFS land and I can't wait. The BLM ground around us here is mostly flat low desert with lots of creosote bushes, not good for much and no shade. It's an hour's drive to higher country. Ticks are an acceptable trade for hills and trees! Good! I will definitely take the Ozark plateau over SW blm land any day. You’re going to be close to Bell Mountain wilderness which is a great place to get lost for a weekend. There’s elephant rocks, Johnson shut ins, crane lake, a whole network of creeks and rivers, with the Frederick town district and rock pike wilderness just to your east. As far as nature is concerned, it’s heaven on earth. But… Poverty is a real problem in that area & you will see all the social problems associated with it in spades down there. Methbillies are everywhere. Always Be Carrying - everywhere. Not too long ago there was a guy out running logging trails, got to a clearing, and found a meth cook camp. As soon as it came into view a tent opened up and a bunch of meth zombies started pouring out of it like a clown car. He did a 20 point turn and skedaddled out of there as fast as he could. I don’t remember exactly where that happened, but it was that part of the state. Lock your doors, chain your trailers, don’t leave stuff in cars overnight. Schools suck. If you have kids you need to be deliberate with their education. Home school or public with heavy involvement depending on your family dynamics. Medical care is not close at hand. If there’s existing medical issues I’d start looking at what’s available at Frederictown, pop bluff, or even cape. Generally speaking, the people are pretty cool. I’ve heard people say the area can be clannish, but I’ve never really run into it. But I also kinda grew up around the area so I blend in well, so who knows. I’ve found that if you’re decent they’ll be decent too. If you’re a church going guy I know a few down there, if there’s a specific spot you know you’re moving to. |
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Originally Posted By WillieTangoFox: I am on the KC side of the state. There is another guy in the ham section in that town though...... his name escapes me. Into gmrs/vhf/uhf clubs i think. Maybe works in microwave rf in some capacity. I think I got you confused with @smullen |
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Originally Posted By JAD762: Good! I will definitely take the Ozark plateau over SW blm land any day. You’re going to be close to Bell Mountain wilderness which is a great place to get lost for a weekend. There’s elephant rocks, Johnson shut ins, crane lake, a whole network of creeks and rivers, with the Frederick town district and rock pike wilderness just to your east. As far as nature is concerned, it’s heaven on earth. But… Poverty is a real problem in that area & you will see all the social problems associated with it in spades down there. Methbillies are everywhere. Always Be Carrying - everywhere. Not too long ago there was a guy out running logging trails, got to a clearing, and found a meth cook camp. As soon as it came into view a tent opened up and a bunch of meth zombies started pouring out of it like a clown car. He did a 20 point turn and skedaddled out of there as fast as he could. I don’t remember exactly where that happened, but it was that part of the state. Lock your doors, chain your trailers, don’t leave stuff in cars overnight. Schools suck. If you have kids you need to be deliberate with their education. Home school or public with heavy involvement depending on your family dynamics. Medical care is not close at hand. If there’s existing medical issues I’d start looking at what’s available at Frederictown, pop bluff, or even cape. Generally speaking, the people are pretty cool. I’ve heard people say the area can be clannish, but I’ve never really run into it. But I also kinda grew up around the area so I blend in well, so who knows. I’ve found that if you’re decent they’ll be decent too. If you’re a church going guy I know a few down there, if there’s a specific spot you know you’re moving to. I appreciate it. I've had far too many close encounters of the methbilly kind around here, and reservation poverty is not far away so unfortunately I sort of know the drill. Ours tend to be copper thieves more than meth cooks, for whatever that's worth. It's gotten bad enough that I need to carry at work, being in a very remote area with emergency response times measured in hours (if ever) and lots of shady people will do that. All in all, not a huge change although not having triple-digit temperatures most of the year helps with concealment. No kids and no plans to change that any time soon. I'm very on board with homeschooling should things change. Schools seem to suck everywhere now. We've been meaning to attend church more. Most any reasonably sane, non-woke Protestant church will work and trying out a few is acceptable to me. |
| Hey, we live in Shannon county near the river, but we own a Deli/meat market/general store in Ellington. We moved up from AR, and have never regretted it. We are fortunate in Ellington, due to having the basic needs met. Grocery, Hardware, full service gas station etc... A walmart is almost an hour away in any direction you care to drive. I will try and check back if you have any questions about this area. |
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Originally Posted By sabocat: I appreciate it. I've had far too many close encounters of the methbilly kind around here, and reservation poverty is not far away so unfortunately I sort of know the drill. Ours tend to be copper thieves more than meth cooks, for whatever that's worth. It's gotten bad enough that I need to carry at work, being in a very remote area with emergency response times measured in hours (if ever) and lots of shady people will do that. All in all, not a huge change although not having triple-digit temperatures most of the year helps with concealment. No kids and no plans to change that any time soon. I'm very on board with homeschooling should things change. Schools seem to suck everywhere now. We've been meaning to attend church more. Most any reasonably sane, non-woke Protestant church will work and trying out a few is acceptable to me. Originally Posted By sabocat: Originally Posted By JAD762: Good! I will definitely take the Ozark plateau over SW blm land any day. You’re going to be close to Bell Mountain wilderness which is a great place to get lost for a weekend. There’s elephant rocks, Johnson shut ins, crane lake, a whole network of creeks and rivers, with the Frederick town district and rock pike wilderness just to your east. As far as nature is concerned, it’s heaven on earth. But… Poverty is a real problem in that area & you will see all the social problems associated with it in spades down there. Methbillies are everywhere. Always Be Carrying - everywhere. Not too long ago there was a guy out running logging trails, got to a clearing, and found a meth cook camp. As soon as it came into view a tent opened up and a bunch of meth zombies started pouring out of it like a clown car. He did a 20 point turn and skedaddled out of there as fast as he could. I don’t remember exactly where that happened, but it was that part of the state. Lock your doors, chain your trailers, don’t leave stuff in cars overnight. Schools suck. If you have kids you need to be deliberate with their education. Home school or public with heavy involvement depending on your family dynamics. Medical care is not close at hand. If there’s existing medical issues I’d start looking at what’s available at Frederictown, pop bluff, or even cape. Generally speaking, the people are pretty cool. I’ve heard people say the area can be clannish, but I’ve never really run into it. But I also kinda grew up around the area so I blend in well, so who knows. I’ve found that if you’re decent they’ll be decent too. If you’re a church going guy I know a few down there, if there’s a specific spot you know you’re moving to. I appreciate it. I've had far too many close encounters of the methbilly kind around here, and reservation poverty is not far away so unfortunately I sort of know the drill. Ours tend to be copper thieves more than meth cooks, for whatever that's worth. It's gotten bad enough that I need to carry at work, being in a very remote area with emergency response times measured in hours (if ever) and lots of shady people will do that. All in all, not a huge change although not having triple-digit temperatures most of the year helps with concealment. No kids and no plans to change that any time soon. I'm very on board with homeschooling should things change. Schools seem to suck everywhere now. We've been meaning to attend church more. Most any reasonably sane, non-woke Protestant church will work and trying out a few is acceptable to me. Right on. You should be set then. I hope I didn’t sound too down on it. It is a cool area and we’ve talked about retiring in that general area when the time comes. Though it’s still a long minute before we’re ready for that. If I were in that area for the weekend, I’d try to make it to First Baptist Viburnum. I know the pastors father better than I know him, but both are solid sharp guys. The pastor there is a regular guy who’s a shooter so, no woke there. Honestly, I don’t think wokeness has even made it to those parts yet. On the other end of iron county I’d try first Baptist Ironton. I’ve got a lot of mutual friends with the pastor there and I’ve only heard good things about him. |
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Originally Posted By sabocat: Yes, you do. I'll have to reach out to him. Are you still over by Fredericktown? Originally Posted By WillieTangoFox: I am on the KC side of the state. There is another guy in the ham section in that town though...... his name escapes me. Into gmrs/vhf/uhf clubs i think. Maybe works in microwave rf in some capacity. In Fredericktown or just out side. I play radios and am in two local clubs, one (Club Secretary) in Ftown, the other is based out of Bonne Terre, but we have folks from all over SE Mo in it. Anyone (licenses or not) is welcome in either or both. I have/Had been in the Internet (Cable modems, Fiber, Fixed Wireless, etc) industry for 30 years, but I recently exited that (kinda long story) and took a postion at a local O'Reilly's as a Driver. Pays peanuts, but I actually Love the job and doing much better mentally. You'll also want to check out 67gunclub.org . Nice range out to 300 yards, lots of Competitions there. No attitudes, lots of good dudes there. I've been a member of it way longer than I have lived in the area. When I lived in St. Louis, I'd come down for the weekends and spend much of it at the range. Cheap memberships too. You can use my name as a Sponsor. I lived in St. Louis for my 1st 40 years, got sick of it and transplanted down here. Aside from the lack of Jobs and good restaurants I really love it. I've you need anything or want to hook up for a beer or whatever, hit me up. |
LARUEMINATI
NRA Endowment Life Member
Originally Posted By Boom_Stick:
""AKs are for villagers you have to tell not to shit in their water supply.""
NRA Endowment Life Member
Originally Posted By Boom_Stick:
""AKs are for villagers you have to tell not to shit in their water supply.""
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T Originally Posted By smullen: Sounds like me... :) In Fredericktown or just out side. I play radios and am in two local clubs, one (Club Secretary) in Ftown, the other is based out of Bonne Terre, but we have folks from all over SE Mo in it. Anyone (licenses or not) is welcome in either or both. I have/Had been in the Internet (Cable modems, Fiber, Fixed Wireless, etc) industry for 30 years, but I recently exited that (kinda long story) and took a postion at a local O'Reilly's as a Driver. Pays peanuts, but I actually Love the job and doing much better mentally. You'll also want to check out 67gunclub.org . Nice range out to 300 yards, lots of Competitions there. No attitudes, lots of good dudes there. I've been a member of it way longer than I have lived in the area. When I lived in St. Louis, I'd come down for the weekends and spend much of it at the range. Cheap memberships too. You can use my name as a Sponsor. I lived in St. Louis for my 1st 40 years, got sick of it and transplanted down here. Aside from the lack of Jobs and good restaurants I really love it. I've you need anything or want to hook up for a beer or whatever, hit me up. Thanks! Yeah, you are who I was thinking of. I've had a lot going on and mixed up usernames. The Nixa ARC's infrastructure got my attention, especially the 440 P25 machine on Taum Sauk. I'd be happy to meet up for dinners/beer at some point, and/or over the air. I got my offer letter today, it's a substantial pay increase. I'll think it over this weekend but in all likelihood we'll be headed that way within a few weeks. |
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Originally Posted By sabocat: T Thanks! Yeah, you are who I was thinking of. I've had a lot going on and mixed up usernames. The Nixa ARC's infrastructure got my attention, especially the 440 P25 machine on Taum Sauk. I'd be happy to meet up for dinners/beer at some point, and/or over the air. I got my offer letter today, it's a substantial pay increase. I'll think it over this weekend but in all likelihood we'll be headed that way within a few weeks. I have to repeaters over this way, that I wonder if you'll be able to hit... 1st one is called the Farmington repeater, but its actually closer to Park Hills. Has a Weekly Net (a few actually) 2nd is the Fredericktown, it has a smaller reach, but it is getting a tower height upgrade, sometime in the semi-near future which "Should", increase its range. Smaller weekly net. |
LARUEMINATI
NRA Endowment Life Member
Originally Posted By Boom_Stick:
""AKs are for villagers you have to tell not to shit in their water supply.""
NRA Endowment Life Member
Originally Posted By Boom_Stick:
""AKs are for villagers you have to tell not to shit in their water supply.""
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Originally Posted By sabocat: T Thanks! Yeah, you are who I was thinking of. I've had a lot going on and mixed up usernames. The Nixa ARC's infrastructure got my attention, especially the 440 P25 machine on Taum Sauk. I'd be happy to meet up for dinners/beer at some point, and/or over the air. I got my offer letter today, it's a substantial pay increase. I'll think it over this weekend but in all likelihood we'll be headed that way within a few weeks. This winter when 80m quiets down....... we could try some MO-HTF...... HF. :-] |
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Originally Posted By WillieTangoFox: This winter when 80m quiets down....... we could try some MO-HTF...... HF. :-] Originally Posted By elginrunner: id be up for that Originally Posted By JAD762: *tagging for interest intensifies. We had a huge storm that look out about 4 or 5 Antennas. I have a 2m vertical back up, but haven't had time or money for any others. But, don't let that stop ya'll.... |
LARUEMINATI
NRA Endowment Life Member
Originally Posted By Boom_Stick:
""AKs are for villagers you have to tell not to shit in their water supply.""
NRA Endowment Life Member
Originally Posted By Boom_Stick:
""AKs are for villagers you have to tell not to shit in their water supply.""
| I'm a General, that just got my shack put back together after a move, and 4 year hiatus... I just have a Yeasu 450D and a G5RV inverted V hanging on some 1000 lb paracord between some trees. Not fancy, but it works. I have my two meter hanging from the same suspension line, about 40 feet in the air. I can talk to the VanBuren repeater very clearly, but the Taum Sauk repeater is garbled... I am able to trip it, but I can't understand the transmission back to me. |
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Originally Posted By elginrunner: I'm a General, that just got my shack put back together after a move, and 4 year hiatus... I just have a Yeasu 450D and a G5RV inverted V hanging on some 1000 lb paracord between some trees. Not fancy, but it works. I have my two meter hanging from the same suspension line, about 40 feet in the air. I can talk to the VanBuren repeater very clearly, but the Taum Sauk repeater is garbled... I am able to trip it, but I can't understand the transmission back to me. I've got a 991 and 710, but no HF Antennas... But, I can hit the Taum Sauk repeaters from over here in Fredrock, one of them is pretty busy from time to time... |
LARUEMINATI
NRA Endowment Life Member
Originally Posted By Boom_Stick:
""AKs are for villagers you have to tell not to shit in their water supply.""
NRA Endowment Life Member
Originally Posted By Boom_Stick:
""AKs are for villagers you have to tell not to shit in their water supply.""
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Originally Posted By Chris_1522: You'd better be if you like meat. Are you in the mining industry? That's some sparsely populated area and there's not much else going on there. This was my thinking. Looked into land in Reynolds years ago and it was very nice, except it was miles and hours from anyplace my wife wanted to work. And building would have been hindred a bit by transport to the properties we were checking out. |
"Zeal without prudence is like a ship adrift."
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Originally Posted By sabocat: I'm headed down next week for a site visit. If all goes well, we'll be moved out before the end of the month! So, Whats your new zip code and Town called??? Unless, I missed it. |
LARUEMINATI
NRA Endowment Life Member
Originally Posted By Boom_Stick:
""AKs are for villagers you have to tell not to shit in their water supply.""
NRA Endowment Life Member
Originally Posted By Boom_Stick:
""AKs are for villagers you have to tell not to shit in their water supply.""
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Originally Posted By smullen: Sweet... So, Whats your new zip code and Town called??? Unless, I missed it. That's still up in the air, but likely Arcadia or nearby. I'll rent a place for a few months and buy after settling into the job. EDIT: Looks like I'll be the other direction in Salem, ZIP 65560. |
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Originally Posted By sabocat: UPDATE: I leased a house in Salem and will be moving within a week or two!  It's going to be a bit of drive from Salem to the mining region if that's where you're working. Be careful on those roads, especially at night. Otherwise, Salem strikes me as a thoroughly reasonable soft landing spot to get to know the area. It's centrally located for a bunch of stuff you'll want to check out --- Montauk State Park, the float streams, Johnson's Shut-ins, etc. It's also an easy hop to Rolla for when you need stuff or a taste of civilization. Also easy access to I-44. Good choice, IMO. You could have easily picked a spot that would have you feel like you wandered into a remake of "Winter's Bone." Salem is a bit more civilized. There are activities in and around town that will allow you to integrate into the local community if you choose to do so. A couple things you should check out: Obviously, the float streams. You'll be close to Current River, the Meramec and the Huzzah, among others. This is the best Missouri has to offer. Take advantage of it. Wildwood Springs Lodge in Steelville. They have a fall concert series that brings in some really cool music acts. It's a charming old building that seats about 250 people (max) for concerts. If you go, make sure your ticket includes the meal because the food is outstanding and the dining room experience in memorable. https://wildwoodspringslodge.com/wildwood-springs-lodge-concert-series/ The 100-Acre Wood road rally. Held each spring, it's a national class auto race on the backroads of the Ozarks. The race is based out of Salem and they always do a gathering of the cars before the race downtown. There are a bunch of cool viewing spots out in the hills where you can watch the cars race through. It's quite an event: https://www.americanrallyassociation.org/100aw Wineries. Missouri has a long history of wine making. There are a couple of wineries in and around St. James (the biggest in Missouri, in fact) but the better/more historic ones are maybe an hour away from you in the Hermann and Augusta area. You should check them out. https://missouriwine.org/ There's a bunch of other stuff depending on what you're into. There's a big off-road park near Jadwin, there's several places that teach traditional Ozark crafts, there's trail riding and equestrian events, trophy-level small mouth fishing, there are trout fishing streams, there's the whole geology thing at the university in Rolla, live theater in Rolla, if you play music (or like listening to it) there are bluegrass festivals and jam sessions at old schools, churches and just roadside houses, through Missouri. There's lots to do and see. |
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Originally Posted By Bladeswitcher: It's going to be a bit of drive from Salem to the mining region if that's where you're working. Be careful on those roads, especially at night. Otherwise, Salem strikes me as a thoroughly reasonable soft landing spot to get to know the area. It's centrally located for a bunch of stuff you'll want to check out --- Montauk State Park, the float streams, Johnson's Shut-ins, etc. It's also an easy hop to Rolla for when you need stuff or a taste of civilization. Also easy access to I-44. Good choice, IMO. You could have easily picked a spot that would have you feel like you wandered into a remake of "Winter's Bone." Salem is a bit more civilized. There are activities in and around town that will allow you to integrate into the local community if you choose to do so. A couple things you should check out: Obviously, the float streams. You'll be close to Current River, the Meramec and the Huzzah, among others. This is the best Missouri has to offer. Take advantage of it. Wildwood Springs Lodge in Steelville. They have a fall concert series that brings in some really cool music acts. It's a charming old building that seats about 250 people (max) for concerts. If you go, make sure your ticket includes the meal because the food is outstanding and the dining room experience in memorable. https://wildwoodspringslodge.com/wildwood-springs-lodge-concert-series/ The 100-Acre Wood road rally. Held each spring, it's a national class auto race on the backroads of the Ozarks. The race is based out of Salem and they always do a gathering of the cars before the race downtown. There are a bunch of cool viewing spots out in the hills where you can watch the cars race through. It's quite an event: x Wineries. Missouri has a long history of wine making. There are a couple of wineries in and around St. James (the biggest in Missouri, in fact) but the better/more historic ones are maybe an hour away from you in the Hermann and Augusta area. You should check them out. https://missouriwine.org/ There's a bunch of other stuff depending on what you're into. There's a big off-road park near Jadwin, there's several places that teach traditional Ozark crafts, there's trail riding and equestrian events, trophy-level small mouth fishing, there are trout fishing streams, there's the whole geology thing at the university in Rolla, live theater in Rolla, if you play music (or like listening to it) there are bluegrass festivals and jam sessions at old schools, churches and just roadside houses, through Missouri. There's lots to do and see. I appreciate the kind words from you and everyone else! My commute is a bit over a half-hour (depending on road conditions), which is the second-shortest I've had recently. The other options I'd looked at were going to be over an hour each way. I was in Salem most of this past week checking things out and making arrangements; it seems like it has enough to be convenient while not being overly large or congested. Longer-term, we'll want to be a ways out of town and on some acreage if possible. That rally looks like a blast. I think I'll get some buddies together to watch it. Everything else will be on the list as well! |
This has the look of a place that needs to be condemned, but the food is pretty darn good  https://maps.app.goo.gl/a3PJKbxMDNiXiUbn9 |
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Originally Posted By elginrunner: This has the look of a place that needs to be condemned, but the food is pretty darn good https://maps.app.goo.gl/a3PJKbxMDNiXiUbn9 The street view is truly astounding. I'll have to try it 
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