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Posted: 4/19/2021 4:58:31 PM EDT
Last year I moved from SW OH to NE PA and was fortunate enough to purchase a place with a bit of property. There is a creek that runs through my property and at one point there is a swimming hole (I own both sides of the creek in the vicinity of the swimming hole). Unfortunately it appears that the swimming hole is known to the locals and I have already had a few bad interactions including trails of garbage in my front yard. They have been undeterred by the "No Trespassing" signs that were put up by the previous owner. Incursions have become more frequent since the start of trout season and I expect it to get really bad in the summer months.

When I discussed this issue with some neighbors they all said that creeks are public property - not an idea I was accustomed to being from Ohio. Anyways, I did some looking and it appears that this is due to a ruling by the PA supreme court and summarized in the vaguest sense by PA Fish and Boat here.

1. Are Pennsylvania’s waters considered public and therefore open to legal fishing and boating?

Some are; some aren’t. In addition to the legal status of the waterway itself, the status of the adjacent - or “riparian” - lands play a significant role in determining who has what rights. Unfortunately, a brief answer cannot comprehensively address this complex subject, which has generated major court decisions and lengthy law review articles.

2. So which waters are considered to be public?

Public waters include the great or principal rivers of the Commonwealth. The Pennsylvania Supreme Court in Shrunk v. Schuylkill Navigation Company in 1826 defined the great rivers to be the Ohio, Monongahela, Youghiogheny, Allegheny, Susquehanna, and its north and west, branches, Juniata, Schuylkill, Lehigh and Delaware. Public waters also include “legally navigable” rivers, streams and lakes.

3. What makes a river, stream or lake navigable for legal purposes?

Waterways must be regarded as “navigable in law if they are navigable in fact.” According to the United States Supreme Court in The Daniel Ball in 1870, waterways are “navigable in fact” when they are used or are susceptible of being used in their ordinary condition as highways for commerce over which trade and travel are or may be conducted in customary modes of trade and travel on water.
View Quote


In typical judicial fashion there is no comprehensive list of "navigable" waterways but I would suspect my creek is not one of them. I have a call out to NE PA Fish and Boat but I thought it would be interesting to get the hive's perspective.

I don't want to make a stink with the locals but I do need to understand my rights and responsibilities (liabilities?). I am sympathetic to the people that "swam there when [they] were kids" and the anglers but I would also like my privacy and property respected.

Do I own the creek? Am I liable if someone trespasses and injures themselves? Is there an authoritative source on this kind of thing or and I going to call two different departments and get three answers?
Link Posted: 4/19/2021 5:09:10 PM EDT
[#1]
Navigable and non-navigable waterways have always been a point of contention in Pennsylvania. Good luck
Link Posted: 4/20/2021 5:25:28 AM EDT
[#2]
If at any point during the year someone could float a canoe down the creek, it will probably be considered navigable.
I know that isn't really a helpful answer, but it's pretty accurate. We had the same issue with a piece of property that the family owned.
Luckily most people weren't dicks and trash was pretty minimal. Hunters trespassing was more of an problem.
Link Posted: 4/20/2021 9:11:21 AM EDT
[#3]
If the creek is considered navigable, that still doesn't mean they can use it as a swimming hole or cross your land to get to it without permission.

It would mean they can canoe through from upstream if they want.
Link Posted: 4/20/2021 10:17:48 AM EDT
[#4]
Actually, this is an old and misunderstood law. And it's a historical one. When William Penn was deeded the land that would become Pennsylvania, the only way to move commercial materials was through the waterways. It was stipulated that any waterway that could be used to move goods would be open to all use. In present times this isn't an issue but the law still stands but is subject to "historical interpretation" . If the waterway was open to commercial waterway traffic and could be proved to have been used as such then it would be open to the public. It actually has to be classified as such. Most back woods creeks are not open waterways. But, the water itself is considered commonwealth property. So a kayak traveling down the waterway is ok, but the operator can't go to ground. And trespassing along the edges to fish is just plane trespassing. Call the local police and complain about trespassers. I wouldn't say they are fishing cuz the long arm of the law might want to involve the PFBC instead and that will get no place. They are stretched too thin. Or, you could just go out back to shoot tin cans with the AR and watch the trespassers run for cover, LOL!
Link Posted: 4/20/2021 11:56:37 AM EDT
[#5]
If someone dies or gets hurt swimming there you’ll wish you did whatever you could to keep them out when they sue you.

Not saying you won’t do that, just a thought
Link Posted: 4/20/2021 1:28:18 PM EDT
[#6]
A property owner is usually not liable if a trespasser is injured unless the property owner is grossly negligent or has done something to intentionally cause injury to a trespasser.
Link Posted: 4/20/2021 11:43:00 PM EDT
[#7]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
A property owner is usually not liable if a trespasser is injured unless the property owner is grossly negligent or has done something to intentionally cause injury to a trespasser.
View Quote


This is my understanding as well. I'm pretty certain I've read in PA that if a landowner allows others to use their land for recreation such as hunting or fishing, they cannot be held liable if those people were to be injured.

But I am not a lawyer, not even an internet lawyer.
Link Posted: 4/22/2021 7:11:50 AM EDT
[#8]
basically, "most" judges would look at as - if you invite some buddies over to hike around the back 40 and one of them trips in a chuck hole and hits his head on a tree stump, he shoulda watched his step. If you invite some buddies over and one of them steps in the bear trap you set at the bottom of your deck steps to catch burglars, you might be liable for his injuries... unless if maybe you warned him about the bear trap, then he shoulda watched his step.
Link Posted: 4/26/2021 6:25:28 PM EDT
[#9]
Stock swimming hole with pirhannas?
Link Posted: 4/30/2021 2:02:28 AM EDT
[#10]
Navigability is a point of contention and in the end would come down to a judge’s opinion or connections.  I’ve known examples that have pushed the envelope both ways.

Even if it is navigable, your property is still private, and you are not required to allow people access to it through your land.  They would have to access the swimming hole in question by traveling up or downstream in the waterway.
Link Posted: 4/30/2021 6:24:55 AM EDT
[#11]
in navigable waters that have been deemed open to public use the area between high and low water marks are open as well.


https://www.fishandboat.com/LearningCenter/FAQs/Pages/PublicAccess.aspx
Link Posted: 5/3/2021 1:06:21 PM EDT
[#12]
SSS  
Link Posted: 5/18/2021 9:39:01 AM EDT
[#13]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Navigability is a point of contention and in the end would come down to a judge’s opinion or connections.  I’ve known examples that have pushed the envelope both ways.

Even if it is navigable, your property is still private, and you are not required to allow people access to it through your land.  They would have to access the swimming hole in question by traveling up or downstream in the waterway.
View Quote


Not a real update because I have not been able to get an 'official' determination - what I have uncovered agrees with the above.

People can stay in the creek, but...
GET OFF MY LAWN
Link Posted: 5/25/2021 7:11:06 AM EDT
[#14]
Late to the party, but I went down this rabbit hole a while back. I have a "navigable" creek that runs through my property.

You have to look up Hydrological Unit Codes to find your waterway. Mine is in Hydrologic Unit Code 8 (HUC8).

Find your Unit, find your creek, see if it is listed.

This is the list for my area:

Navigable Waterway List
Link Posted: 6/20/2021 7:51:57 AM EDT
[#15]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Late to the party, but I went down this rabbit hole a while back. I have a "navigable" creek that runs through my property.

You have to look up Hydrological Unit Codes to find your waterway. Mine is in Hydrologic Unit Code 8 (HUC8).

Find your Unit, find your creek, see if it is listed.

This is the list for my area:

Navigable Waterway List
View Quote


Thank you! I had come across some of that but was not able to determine if I was reading it correctly or had the right document - In fact, it appeared too positive in that I am not on the list!

Am I correct in determining that my waterway (01502750 Starrucca Creek https://waterdata.usgs.gov/monitoring-location/01502750/) is not on the HUC8 list? The HUC8 list you provided does include my watershed (02050101 Upper Susquehanna. New York, Pennsylvania) but the only listed body of water is the Susquehanna River.

Does this mean I can legally tell people to GTFO??
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