The courts are now our only recourse.

^This guys gets it.  Contact your county commissioners and sheriffs too.  A lot can be done on the local level to nullify state law.  I know some have already said that 2A sanctuaries are only a symbolic gesture but sheriffs have discretion as do county prosecutors and the state doesn't have the resources to police at the county level.

Agreed!

Does someone have a website where one can easily retrieve their local information to Email/mail/call?
Particularly thinking about sending to those who might care but won't put in the effort to do the research themselves.

Most counties will have a website with county official's contact info listed.

Exactly.


https://www.bridgemi.com/michigan-government/democratic-gun-safety-laws-met-shrug-michigan-gun-country?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

Everyone here has missed the boat. The State has passed these laws in both Houses and the Governor is expected to or has already signed them.

It will now be a fifteen (15) year felony if a minor gains access to your firearms and commits a crime with them. They haven't specified if it is your child, or a 15 to17 or even 20-year-old gang member that breaks into your home.

This penalty is three times greater than a FELON in possession of a firearm, a Felon in possession of a stolen firearm or Felony concealed carry. To say it again, if a teenager steals your firearms, you will be treated three times worse than a Felon illegally in possession of a firearm.

Our fight now is in the courts. No person should be held responsible for the criminal actions of another, unless they are a voluntary contributor to such actions.

The loss of common sense and years of published lies have brought us to this point. Massive funding by billionaires who despise individual liberty has been a factor. The Supreme Court has never been so friendly to us, as they should be. I have high hopes, but this will take massive funding and patience.

Complete BS that will only be used against white guys.

When does the UBC part take effect?  I searched but it is not clear when.

March 2024?

This is not true.  The law clearly states that criminal penalties only apply when there is a violation of subsections 1 and 2 (not using a lock box or locking device) and a minor gains access to the firearm.  Misdemeanor if they display it in public or in a threatening manner.  Felony if they injure or kill someone.  The felony component does not apply for any crime committed with the firearm.

I oppose these laws in their entirety but we have to present the elements factually.  People can see through the bullshit on our side just as easily as we see through bullshit on the left and embellishing facts is a surefire way to lose credibility.

As for sitting around and waiting for the courts to sort this out, you do you I guess.

I believe it is 14 days for Whitmer to sign then was effective after 90 days unless specified in bill.

That was my understanding also but I cannot find it.

As I understand it, and correct me if I’m wrong, they did not have the votes for immediate implementation. So it goes into effect 90-days after the “session” ends. If the session ends December 2023, it goes into effect 90-days later? Or does the session end Dec 2024?

My friends son went to buy a ar15 at Dunhams, he's 18. They are saying there is a 14 day waiting period for people 18 -20 years old. Is this correct? I can see mention of this being proposed, but not passed. Im assuming this is just Dunhams doing Dunhams things.

I believe that is part of the enhanced background check for 18, 19 and 20 year olds that was past federally under Biden.

I believe that’s part of the new federal enhanced background checks?

Again, not using a lock box or locking device? Does this include criminal teenagers breaking into my home? Can I claim I had a cheap cable through the action when the firearm was stolen, the criminal cut the cable afterwards?

Vague.

I don't think anyone should be held responsible for the criminal actions of another person, even the Bible says so. I own firearms, many of them are disassembled at any given time for routine maintenance, modifications or repairs. They are not locked up. If a "minor" breaks into my home while I am three blocks away at the grocery, am I responsible for the crimes he commits? How about people that go to work 40 to 60 hours each week?

Not everyone can afford a residential security container, let alone a real TL-15 or TL-30 safe. Gun store safes are easily defeated, a TL-15 can be defeated around 15 minutes by a pro. This is a slippery slope, transferring responsibility to the victims of theft, even if it's theft by their own children. 50 years ago, a guy I went to school with, stole his father's brand new S&W .22 revolver that his dad had never even loaded, let alone shot. When called on the carpet by his father, he said, "You never even used it, why do you miss it now?" I was friends with his younger brother, this asshat was a nut job, mentally deranged and stoned most of the time. Now this is his father's fault?

Respectfully, read my post again and then I recommend you read HB 4144 (2023).

My issue is not with your warranted concerns regarding the law - I agree with you.  

My issue is with your characterization that "it's a 15 yrs felony if a minor gains access to your firearm and commits a crime with it."  That is not true.  Even if a violation of subsection 1 and 2 exists (not using a lock box or locking device), there is no felony unless the minor injures/kills someone.  The story about your schoolmate 50 years ago wouldn't constitute a felony under this law; possibly a misdemeanor (depending what he did with the firearm).  

My point is we do a disservice to our cause when we misrepresent facts.

I will also add that a father who makes a firearm accessible to his nutjob, deranged, pot head son, is a prime example of why we are all less free today.

We are being held to the standard of a stealing, pot head son's, level of responsibility. I can't find anything in this Bill that protects me from a juvenile that breaks into my home and steals my firearms. I don't have juveniles living in my house.  The only juvenile that could gain access to my firearms would be a felon who breached my security.

Once the firearm is stolen, who the hell knows where it ends up and who finally owns it? Can it be stolen again by a juvenile and used in a murder after it was stolen from me? Am I still culpable?

I have a H&R 999 4" revolver that is out there somewhere. It was stolen around 1981. If a juvenile uses it to commit murder, am I going to prison for 15 years?

The law does not punish convicted felons as harshly as they are trying to punish victims of crime! Felons in possession of firearms is around 5 years maximum. The same for possession of a stolen firearm. The same for carrying a concealed weapon without a license.

Once again, all good points.  You appear to be missing my point so I'll just request you stick to those valid points and stop making false statements like, "It will now be a fifteen (15) year felony if a minor gains access to your firearms and commits a crime with them."  I still think your friend's dad lacks good sense.

Friend's dad has long since passed, I would be surprised if the older brother is still alive. School mate has Parkinsons and in pretty bad shape. If my firearms are stolen by a teenager and used in a shooting causing injury or death, you are saying that I am not going to be charged with a fifteen (15) year felony? These "teenagers" are responsible for most of the shootings in our state.

"Friend's dad has long since passed,"

Ok - his judgement still sucked.

"If my firearms are stolen by a teenager and used in a shooting causing injury or death, you are saying that I am not going to be charged with a fifteen (15) year felony?"

You will if they cause death.  You will not if they only cause injury (that's a 10 yr felony).  And there is NO felony penalty attached to crimes not resulting in injury or death.  Not to mention that there is no criminal penalty at all if the firearms were locked up at the time they were stolen.  I've clearly layed this all out from the beginning.  The fact that you still haven't caught on is remarkable.

Your original statement was, "It will now be a fifteen (15) year felony if a minor gains access to your firearms and commits a crime with them."

It should have been, "It will now be a fifteen (15) year felony if you don't secure your firearms and a minor gains access to your firearms and kills someone with them."

Your original statement makes it sound to the casual reader that if their guns are stolen (whether or not they were locked up) and used in ANY CRIME, that they will he charged with a 15 yr felony?  Michigan residents trying to learn about this new law will read your misleading statement and think it's true.  They will repeat it, further spreading your false info and creating confusion.  Then, we all end up looking like a bunch of illiterate jackasses that can't read or don't comprehend the law.  Seems like a losing strategy to sway public opinion on this issue.

Please, just re-read the law and make sure your statements on the issue are factual - for all of our sakes.

The safe storage law says this: "requiring an individual to keep a firearm being stored or left unattended on a premises unloaded and locked with a locking device or stored in a locked box or container if it is reasonably known that a minor is or is likely to be present on the premises ".

This law applies to those who have minor children, grandchildren or other minors reasonably known or likely to be present on the premises. A teenage burglar is not by any stretch of the imagination "reasonably known or likely to be present on the premises".

This is also a really good point that I missed.

In no way should this be construed to mean that these laws are nothing to be concerned about.  They certainly are.  The whole point is to represent the elements of the law accurately when discussing them.  There is plenty wrong with this law to point out and discuss without having to exaggerate or embellish the facts.  The same goes for the many other anti-gun laws currently proposed in the state legislature.  All of which I strongly oppose.

Edit: From the law under Subsection 7:

(7) This section does not apply under any of the following circumstances:

(a) A minor who does all of the following:

(i) Obtains a firearm with the permission of the minor’s parent or guardian.

(ii) Uses or possesses the firearm while the minor is under the supervision of the minor’s parent, guardian, or any individual who is 18 years of age or older and who is authorized by the person’s parent or guardian.

(iii) Uses or possesses the firearm during any of the following:

(A) The minor’s employment.

(B) Ranching or farming.

(C) Target practice or instruction in the safe use of a firearm.

(b) A minor who obtains a firearm with the permission of the minor’s parent or guardian and who uses or possesses the firearm for the purposes of hunting if the minor is in compliance with all applicable hunting laws.

(c) A minor who obtains a firearm through the minor’s unlawful entry of any premises or the motor vehicle where the firearm has been stored.

(d) A minor who obtains a firearm while lawfully acting in self-defense or defense of another.

So no ready home defense gun if you have kids?

Yes, in much the same way you're not allowed to carry in a movie theatre.

I HIGHLY recommend people read the actual text of these bills for yourselves, the whole things, and really think about what they actually say. Do not trust what the media has spoon fed you on this, they have lied. This conversation about safe storage and criminal penalties should be an eye opener for all of us. READ THE BILLS. They do not say what you may think they say, they certainly don't say what you've been told they say. Exercise critical thinking, and make smart decisions.

From the law:

Sec. 9. (1) An individual who stores or leaves a firearm unattended on premises under the individual's control, and who knows or reasonably should know that a minor is, or is likely to be, present on the premises, shall do 1 or more of the following:

(a) Store the firearm in a locked box or container.

(b) Keep the firearm unloaded and lock the firearm with a locking device that is properly engaged to render the firearm inoperable by any individual other than the owner or an authorized user.

Appears that it can be loaded IF stored in a locked container.