I know, I know.  Many of you oppose the NRA, but here is a link to an NRA-ILA article anyway, along with a method of emailing your State Representative and State Senator.


Link To Article:
https://www.nraila.org/articles/20230217/michigan-anti-gun-bill-packages-introduced



Link To Tool Allowing You To Email Your Representative & Senator:
https://act.nraila.org/campaign/45117/

Ugh, trying to read over the bill document changes is even worse than it should be because they had to replace he/her every other line to be all gender neutral.

So for the "background check bill", it looks like they're trying to use the existing pistol license system for non-CPL holders and make it apply to any firearm transaction vs just pistols.  Then only pistol transactions have to have the paperwork returned?  How is that supposed to work as per earlier wording any firearm has to be registered to use/travel with/be in possession of, etc?

What a cluster.

From the meme thread--

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/second-amendment-advocacy-group-promises-to-recall-any-michigan-politician-that-votes-for-gun-control/ar-AA17JwLT?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=6fe1b045bc374b2391fff97315ede939

Just using my phone now, so I'm not going to try and provide any quotes from the article.  I'll try to come back tonight when I'm on my computer and add some quotes.

I thought the consensus here on AR15.com was that  the GLGR organization was a joke.

Any new input on this organization?

It sounds like we all need to support that group.

To be honest I've never heard of that group before.

From article:

....Executive Director for Great Lakes Gun Rights Brenden Boudreau said....

Anyone ever heard of this guy?

Prior to these events the only mention I had seen of GLGR is that it was a grift in a GD thread.

I just Googled him.  He is associated with NAGR.

https://greatlakesgunrights.org/about-us/

I appreciate the lawsuit, but I don't do people associated with nagr. Those guys ride the coattails of real gun groups.

Response from my Senator.



I was thinking of a reply that states that we already have laws that address these that need to be followed before we start passing new laws that repress the rights of law abiding citizens.

Thoughts?

Most of this isn't getting stopped until some of it goes into court. The time to something was before the election but we got clowned by the incompetent GOP who let a corrupt consultant blow up the best gov. candidates, and then was so leaderless decided to not communicate with anyone that there might be an issue on the house and senate elections. Who also before this did nothing to stop the Dems altering the voting districts to their benefit.

The fact that I am being asked to make noise to reps that are not my house and senate rep is just dumb at this point. The dysfunction of the MI GOP amazes me.

Michigan: Committees Suppress Opposition to Anti-Gun Bills

https://www.nraila.org/articles/20230302/michigan-committees-suppress-opposition-to-anti-gun-bills

Putin would be proud.

The Republican Party officials in Kent and Ottawa counties are petitioning their county officials to become Second Amendment Sanctuaries.
Grand Rapids mlive ran a story on it.  Maybe check and see what your County GOP is doing to fight these anti-gun bills?

It's called the 'Uniparty' for a reason

That's good. I'm glad his restaurant didn't suffer the same fate as Marlena's Bistro in Holland, and that he wasn't arrested and brought before one of the Governor's judges, and jailed, like Marlena was.

Bless them for trying...

Michigan GOP pushes back against gun legislation in wake of MSU shooting



Not much more at the link, but here it is: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/michigan-gop-pushes-back-against-gun-legislation-in-wake-of-msu-shooting/ar-AA18kHEr?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=9dace37a434a41b5a141d2897eee76e9&ei=38

HB 4205 defines "assault weapons", makes openly carrying one within 1k feet of a .gov building/courthouse/school a crime.

No exception for private property.

HB4205

HB 4138, HB 4142, and HB 4143 passed in the house tonight.

HB 4138

HB 4142

HB 4143

Pistol purchase permit process getting expanded to include all types of firearms? Cant even give your kid a shotgun for hunting?

These communists have just started.  They have rigged the elections in this state and no meaningful election will ever go the conservative way again.  They are going to ram through all these unconstitutional laws, meanwhile you will be able to abort your child until 6th grade.

There is nothing they can do, the Democrats have a trifecta on government control. The only hope we have is if some Democratic lawmakers jump ship. That's probably not going to happen.

Under these proposed laws it will be illegal to drive by any polling place with a legally owned firearm in your vehicle. It assumes that every citizen, regardless of what city they live in, know exactly where every polling station is located. November is hunting season for small game in Michigan. Concealed carry runs 24/7 365.

If you live close to a polling station, your firearms have to be removed from your home to remain legal.

The safe storage portion does not give you a pass should a minor break into your home (felony home invasion or B&E) and steals your weapons. It simply states allows access, which can be widely interpreted to include thieves, after all, if your child or neighbor's kid steals your firearm, it will be a crime charged against you.

Everytown For Gun Safety is behind this effort with promises of election funding and support for Democratic candidates. The Giffords are involved too. Contact your Representatives, remind them of the Michigan Constitution and the Bill of Rights, don't expect any results. I have already received emails with the usual boiler plate language from several Committee members that passed this to the floor for the vote. Thay aren't interested in my concerns.

The entire Country is a firearms owning sanctuary but try to get the Democrats to believe it.

Lower levels of government are subservient to the higher levels, always. Saying your county is a firearms sanctuary may sound nice, but it will never hold up in court. What will hold up in court (the Supreme Court) is a long protracted and expensive legal battle for the poor bastards who get sucked into the criminal justice system over this obvious violation of our Constitution.

In the meanwhile, progressive prosecutors are letting real criminals walk on reduced charges because of some misguided notion that black men are somehow being unfairly prosecuted when they commit real felonies. Then the released criminal attacks people for no reason and the same politicians that support this nonsense use it as an excuse to criminalize protected behavior with laws that can not possibly be complied with.

Well, guess its time to start home shopping in Florida.

Fuck the wicked witch

"All politics is local" The Democrats understand this and practice it, usually with community organizers.
Our local GOP organizations are the closest thing we have to that but you say there's nothing they can do. Organizing is doing something. Unity is strength.
I have always contacted my Rep's, since the 1980s when I hand wrote letters and mailed them.  Nowadays, most gun owners don't know what's going down until it comes down and becomes law. They can't be bothered with signing up for email alerts and contacting their Rep's. You can lead a horse to water ...

I don't believe anyone has to be a member of the NRA or the Michigan Coalition for Responsible Gunowners to be on their email notification lists. I always reach out to my Representatives when notified of pending legislation in a timely manner. It's like beating a dead horse when it comes to Democrats. Never in my last 48 years of voting have I ever seen a single Democrat change their party's stance. The only friend we ever had in Michigan was John Dingell.

Party politics will be the end of our nation. Nobody is allowed to voice or vote different than the leadership says, lest they be culled from the herd. Campaign funding and fellow members of Congress supporting your reelection, being what it is, makes it a punishable offense to go your own way.

No one is coming to save us. Kent county won't be a sanctuary county, the worthless republicans won't even try.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: XXX
Sent: Wednesday, March 8, 2023 11:16 AM
To: Ponstein,Stanley (Commissioner - District 7)
Subject: Democrat gun control laws

CAUTION: This email was sent from an external source. Please do not open suspicious links or attachments.

Mr. Ponstein,

I live in the city of XXX. I am very concerned about the bills being proposed in the state legislature by the insane democrats. Their gun control bills are trying to strip away all the progress we have made over the last 25 years. What can be done at the county level? There have been discussions and rumors floating around that Kent and Ottawa county are discussing becoming 2A sanctuaries, is this true? If not, why not?

I saw today that they are attempting to hollow out state preemption in HB 4198, creating a patchwork of opposing laws across the state.

I own a gun shop in XXX, and the state is now openly hostile to me and my business, to the point that if these pass I and many others are considering pulling up roots and leaving Michigan altogether.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Ponstein,Stanley (Commissioner - District 7)  
Sent: Thursday, March 9, 2023 9:02 PM
To: XXX
Subject: Re: Democrat gun control laws

XXX,

Thank you for your email.

What should we do? That's the question that should have been asked leading up to the last election. The Democrats control all levels of government in the State of Michigan, and they could care less about gun rights in this country. Every Republican County could pass 2nd Amendment Sanctury City Proclamations, it will be meaningless to Democrats.

Our best strategy is to get ready for 2024 and fight this in the Courts and hope they will defend our Constitutional rights.

Stan Ponstein

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sent this morning in reply---

Mr. Ponstein,

While I agree that the time to have done something about this was several election cycles ago, the Republican party in Michigan has been well behind the democrats in nearly every major issue leading us here. Everyone knew pot legalization was bad for the state but was going to happen regardless. Letting that go to the statewide ballot drove leftist voters out in droves. The redistricting proposal is killing us and has led us directly where we are today. I have a democrat State Rep, Senator, and federal Representative for the first time. Doing the same old same old isn’t working clearly.

If like you said, declaring Kent a 2A sanctuary would be meaningless. Then why not do it. You have nothing to lose and everything to gain. Give your voters a reason to hope. A reason to believe that you’re willing to fight.

Grand Rapids will not get safer if this slate of stupid laws gets passed. Restricting the most law-abiding citizens (CPL Holders) and removing State Preemption will cause crime to go wild. Kent county will suffer. You and I both know GR will pass some draconian restrictions on self-defense, making everything worse.

We got here because weak republicans refused to fight the insanity of the left, that’s not you. This is your chance to show the whole county how stiff your spine really is. I’ve been voting for you for years, XXX has your back.

They won't try, because it does not work. No county has a right to override State law. It's a waste of effort and only symbolic. Thinking you can make local laws that defy State or National laws defies history and past Supreme Court rulings.

Maybe you're right. However the democrats couldn't give less of a damn that the laws they are pushing right now do exactly what you describe. The hash bash at UofM went on for how many years? Flew in the face of federal and state laws, but nothing was ever done to stop it. Every AWB flies in the face of Bruen, doesn't even slow the democrats down. They do not care.

Now here we are. Refusing to fight is not a solution. We are the only ones playing by the old rules, and we wont stop losing until we realize that.

Stole this from Reddit:

Current gun related bills in the House:

[4243] - FFL civil liability and must have 1 million in liability insurance

[4215] - Trigger locks Stuff

[4214] - Trigger lock stuff

[4212] - Civil penalty for failure to ensure safe storage

[4211] - 14 day wait on any firearm purchase

[4206] - Penalties for violating 4205

[4205] - Assault weapons defined. Prohibit open carry of them within 1k feet of any type of .gov building, school, or courthouse - no exemptions (even for private property)

[4204] - Mod of licensing Bill for age increase

[4203] - Min age of purchase to 21

[4198] - Allow local units of .gov to ban types of firearm carry

[4184] - Bans bb/pellet gun possession in areas for unaccompanied minors

[4175] - Bill to remove some pistol free zones and have any gun free zones require metal detection and security

[4150] – Cannot open carry in any buildings owned or leased by the state.  

Edit: this bill also appears to remove the ability of a CPL holder from carrying legally in locations previously allowed: banks, any location that holds a liquor license - even if said location does not have liquor on hand.

Use this link to search for locations that have a liquor license (pick your county and use active for filters):

Link - These would be firearm prohibited areas regardless of CPL status if 4150 passes.

[4149] – Cannot conceal carry in any buildings owned or leased by the state

[4148] – Red Flag abuse bill

[4147] – Red Flag Stuff

[4146] – Prohibit people with a red flag from purchases

[4145] - Red Flag

[4144] – Safe Storage Bill

[4143] – Sentencing updates pistol -> firearm (passed house vote)

[4142] – Updates firearm definitions in penal code to ‘firearm’ (passed house vote)

[4141] – Sales tax exemption for safety devices

[4140] – Use tax exemption for safety devices

[4139] – Sentencing for 4138

[4138] – Firearm licensing (passed house vote)

[4130] – Sentencing for 4129

[4129] – Could be gun related – causing a election official to feel “frightened, harassed, terrorized, etc.)

[4128] – Prohibit possession of firearm within 100’ of polling location or drop box for the duration voting or drop off is allowed, or during counting of votes, etc. (only exemptions are in your home, or on duty police – in car/shopping across the street/driving by/off duty cop = violation)

[4127] – Prohibit possession of firearm in polling location

[4010] – Removes sales tax on firearm safety devices (safes/locks/etc)

Message from MCRGO

EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR’S NOTES

Republican control of at least one chamber in the Michigan Legislature has been a wall holding back consideration of gun control legislation for the past four decades. That era has come to an end. This past November, Democrats won control of the Michigan House with a bare 56-54 majority. Democrats now also have a majority in the Senate having won 20 of 38 seats.

Will the new Michigan Legislature move rapidly to pass aggressive gun control laws? That could be difficult unless enough Republicans are on board to make up for the absences and defections of Democratic legislators. Voter concerns about rising crime rates in the wake of decarceration and defunding police may also curb enthusiasm for self-defense restrictions. Over 20 legislative seats were decided by thin margins and may swing back in 2024.

There are already reports of fractures among legislative Democrats. Democrats have given themselves much wider margins on committees than Republicans have in recent years, particularly in the House. The House is split 56-54. Yet, Democrats have taken 172 standing committee positions compared to only 105 given to Republicans. On the Senate Judiciary Committee which will likely handle most firearms bills, Democrats have given themselves a 5-2 majority. Democratic leadership is worried about caucus members either voting independently or being absent from committees and want to be assured of getting their legislative priorities out of committee.

It is much harder to game the process in the full House and Senate. Our biggest concern is Republican legislators trading their votes on gun control bills. However there has been no indication to date of any Republican defections. Unlike the Democrats, the Republican caucuses appear to be more united.

MCRGO is prepared for the new political reality. Its focus on greater inclusion over the past decade has helped build a grassroots organization that now benefits from broad diversity. This has been driven in large part by increased demand for concealed pistol license training from non-traditional gun owners. Modern rifle sales are also booming with all age groups and especially with younger gun owners. MCRGO has responded with a new Modern Rifle course.

Finally, the recent United States Supreme Court decision in New York State Rifle & Pistol Association Inc. v. Bruen has provided a powerful tool for state and national gun groups to overturn heavy-handed gun control laws. Anticipate increased activity on the legal front in the coming weeks and months.

-Brady Schickinger, MCRGO Executive Director

From migunowners.org reference the 3 Bill's that passed the house:

Passed the House, now on to the Senate...23 is the roll call number. 56 yes - 53 no. 0 excused, 1 didn't vote.
The ONE that chose not to vote is William Bruck (a Republican) from District 30 (Monroe County).

William Bruck needs a wake up call from his constituents.  Sitting this one out is unacceptable.

It would be nice to know which Democrats are on the fence so we can contact them and make a civil, impassioned case to sway them over to our side.  As much as we may be tempted to shout at or talk down to them, we need them to change the balance of power and you catch more flies with honey than viniger.

Edited for clarity.

So does he think the bills will stall in the senate?

The majorities in both the House and Senate are so slim it's not impossible.  That's why it's so important that we know who potential Democrat holds outs are so we can contact them and make our case.  Any Democrat who's having second thoughts is having to decide between pissing off their constituents (and losing their seat) or being excommunicated from the party.  We have to let them know that the people will support their opposition to these bills, even if it alienates them from the Democratic party.

That's also why it's so critical that every Republican show up and vote NO on these bills.  For once, prove to us you're not as worthless as you've demonstrated yourselves to be.

We have to keep the pressure up, I was just on YT and the anti gun ads are out in full force just like they were for Stretchen last fall.  

Gun ownership in MI is huge, even among democrats.

Agreed.  If anyone has a list of Democrats in the House or Senate who are on the fence, please share it.  Pass it on to as many people you can.  We have to sway them to our side because I promise you their Democrat colleagues are working overtime to do the same thing, right now.

If this stuff passes no one should buy a hunting license, fishing license or state park pass this year.

This will get passed.

People forgot what happened during COVID and voted like nothing happened.

Just give up and turn all your guns in now.

Sadly, you're correct.

The demonrats hate us and will do anything they can get away to make our lives harder.

They changed redistricting, they changed voting and they're going to run the state for a long time.

The reality is knowing when and where to fight politically.

They are weaponizing the events from East Lansing and using it to their political advantage. The fact that the Prosecutor dropped the ball on locking that guy up is irrelevant to nearly everyone.

The dems have everything the need to set the tone and pace of these bills and ram them through in New York style sessions in the middle of the night. Everyone knows this.

These things will continue to happen until a political shift happens. Republicans will not stop this. There are way too many palms getting greased in all these deals.

On a positive note, we won't have to pay sales tax on gun safes.  Elections have consequences.

Passed the senate today?

When does the new laws go into effect?

Is it just me or does it seem like there is no significant opposition to these bills? I see Great Lakes gun rights posting about it on Twitter. But I’ve seen nothing from GOA, NRA, FPC. No protests at the capital.

Is anyone even getting the word out to the democrat union hunters? Do they know they will need to get a permit from the sheriff in order to get a gun from a friend or relative when this stuff passes?

There wasn't, because every single group has no interest in making any challenge to this. Why not? Because it gives them more "this is why you need to pay us to fight!" fuel, despite that none of them have successfully defeated an infringement on our rights. NRA has done it for decades and all the others are just realizing they can ride the same bandwagon.

They're useless, and their supporters are useless yes-men, no better than the anti-gunners when it comes to blind obedience.

You did nothing and this is what you get, enjoy!

Exactly how would you fix this problem? The Democrats have taken control of both Houses in Michigan and have a Governor in Lansing. The NRA and every other gun rights group have been encouraging their members (and anyone else interested) to contact their representatives. Showing up at hearings and giving testimony costs money. So does lobbying in Washington.

I contact my representatives every single time I get an alert from the NRA or The Michigan Coalition for Responsible Gun Owners, do you? We are in a war to protect the Bill of Rights, all of it, not just the 2nd Amendment. This is just one more battle of many to be come. Your attitude is defeatist and will end badly if you actually care about prevailing in the end.

The price of Liberty is Eternal Vigilance.

Public protests at the capital.

Outreach to Democrat gun owners explaining what these changes actually mean. Lots of D voting hunters have never owned a handgun. They avoided buying one due to the pistol purchase permit and registration process. They are likely unaware that that process is being expanded to all guns.

A boycott campaign where people stop buying hunting licenses, fishing licenses and state park passes if these laws pass. Lobby the politicians to explain that they will lose millions in revenue if they pass the bills.