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Posted: 6/20/2021 11:01:45 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/20/2021 11:04:15 PM EDT by InterestedBystander]
Posted at Illinois Carry...

https://illinoiscarry.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=78008&page=6#entry1318327


The problem is you have not been told everything about the situation.

What people don’t understand is the Governor handed down an edict to the Democratic caucus. He was concerned that it appeared his administration wasn’t doing anything to stop the horrific violent crime rate in Illinois and most notably in Cook County & Chicago. He demanded that they pass either HB1091 or HB562 – one or the other without fail. We knew early on that one of those two bills was going to get passed and the Republicans don’t have enough votes to stop it.

The ISRA is a one issue organization, and we base our decisions on what is most appropriate in the long run. Our decisions are not based on animosity toward any group or individual but rather what is in the best interest of the Second Amendment rights of all Illinois firearm owners.

Given the political climate surrounding HB1091 and HB562 it was clear a decision had to be made on what would be the best course of action. Those who believe the ISRA should “draw a line in the sand” and say “no” to both bills, have no understanding of the mission of the ISRA – to foster the best possible environment for Illinois firearm owners.  Taking a hardline and rejecting both bills simply means the anti-Second Amendment backers of those bills will do whatever they want and the ISRA will not have a seat at the table to try to get the most onerous elements of a bill removed and we did manage to accomplish a few good things.

Representative Denyse Stoneback (D-16th District), a cosponsor of HB1091, was adamant about three onerous provisions:

It would require mandatory fingerprinting,
There would be an unspecified increase in the cost though rough calculations based on other aspects of the bill, it put the cost of a new FOID card at about $75, and
Applicants would be required to go to a police station to apply.

Other particularly undesirable aspects to HB1091 included the “clear and present danger” aspect expanded to include “any act” intended to cause or create a risk… It was dangerously vague with significant negative implications for Illinois firearm owners.

The bill would also ban the private sale of firearms with all transactions required to go through an FFL. There were no positive aspects to HB1091 and the ISRA took a negative position on the bill.


The controversy alleging the ISRA’s lack of support for Illinois firearm owners was focused on our neutral position on HB562. It was a very carefully considered position and it requires an understanding of the bill’s contents and the ISRA’s long term strategy.

One of the most naïve criticisms came from those individuals who either opined that there was no such thing as “backroom deals” or those who thought there should never be any kind of “backroom deals;” everything should be discussed publicly.

Otto von Bismarck, former chancellor of Germany, wrote, “The less people know about how sausages and laws are made, the better they’ll sleep at night.” Backroom deals are as old as government itself and an intrinsic thread in the fabric of law making. Backroom deals are essential when you are not the dominant party. Look at the positive points in HB562.

First, let us be clear, the ISRA objects to the very concept of a FOID card. The Second Amendment guarantees it is the right of the people to keep and bear arms, period. No FOID cards, no de facto poll tax, nothing that stands between law abiding citizens and acquiring and keeping firearms.

The fact is in Illinois we have such impediments and the ISRA’s long term strategy is to have the FOID card declared unconstitutional, but you do not just flip a switch and it goes away. So, the short-term strategy is to do whatever is possible to reduce the negative impact on Illinois firearm owners while implementing a strategy for the ultimate removal of the FOID card which brings us to HB562.

Literally hundreds of hours and many meetings were held discussing over a hundred different parts and combinations. In the end, those discussions produced a bill that had several positive elements.

The FOID card would automatically renew simultaneously with the CCL renewal.
Ultimately the FOID expiration would be eliminated.
The FOID and CCL would be consolidated into one card.
Ultimately an electronic version of the FOID/CCL would be developed.
A public defender would be added to the appeals board.
The change of address requirement would be eliminated.
No increase in the FOID fee.

There were a few other positive aspects but there were also a host of negative aspects the ISRA objected to:

Voluntary fingerprinting, changed from mandatory initially, but still objected to by the ISRA because fingerprinting should not be required to exercise a constitutional right.
It allowed for supervision and expungement of misdemeanor offenses if a person failed to identify where the transfer records were maintained by an FFL.
Person to person firearm transfer could either include a NICS at an FFL or through the person-to-person transfer using ISP FOID verification but also included the buyer providing a record of the transfer to an FFL within 10 days.
The seller of a firearm must save the record for 10 years.

A key aspect of items 3 & 4 is the effective date is January 1, 2024. Last year the ISRA filed a depravation of rights lawsuit in federal court over the FOID card. We began with four plaintiffs and within a month all four received their FOID cards in the mail. Clever trick but short sighted. It is a tactic frowned upon by the court and is not likely to work again. The litigation to eliminate the FOID card continues with new plaintiffs and with a far more friendly SCOTUS it is anticipated that the FOID card may very well be found unconstitutional prior to the implementation of HB562’s provision for person-to-person firearm transfers.

Given that either HB1091 or HB562 was going to be implemented, the ISRA took the position of objecting to HB1091 and remaining neutral on HB562. We did not want to endorse a bill that was overall anti-Second Amendment, yet we did not want to come out against it which might have increased public sentiment to stop HB562 and as a result see HB1091 approved. Clearly HB562 is the better of the choices and ISRA will continue with litigation to end the FOID card. Having said that, if the litigation is unsuccessful, HB562 will be far better to live with than HB1091.

What would you have had us do differently? If we objected to HB562 you’d have the far more unfriendly HB1091 now. Remember, it was definite that it would be one or the other and no way to stop it.

dal
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Link Posted: 6/20/2021 11:32:31 PM EDT
Not that I'm seeing how these reduce any gun violence in Illinois (Chicago)...
Link Posted: 6/21/2021 12:48:36 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By InterestedBystander:
Not that I'm seeing how these reduce any gun violence in Illinois (Chicago)...
View Quote


None of any legislation is meant to.  The first purpose of yet another anti gun law is to make people think politicians are doing something about chiraq and crook county crime.  The second is to use this as an excuse to charge firearm owners more for exercising their 2A right

Criminals caught w/ firearms are run thru a revolving door in crook county, back out on the street, rinse, repeat.

Chiraq and Crook County are lost and have been for a very long time.  Nothing short of martial law will put a dent in crime there.  Yet because of the population density  Crook County gets to pick the governor every four years.  Rauner's victory was an odd fluke.

IL needs an electoral college system.  Each county gets one vote based on the popular vote in that county.  Springfield would never go for it.

Ten years max and we are gone for TN.
Link Posted: 6/21/2021 8:42:00 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/21/2021 8:43:13 AM EDT by SwanHunter]
This was a LONG winded response from ISRA.  They pride themselves at being at the table with anti-gunners when they are crafting these anti-gun bills.  That is a flawed strategy!  They helped produce a horrible bill and then actively worked the bill for passage.  They put out flawed fact sheets to Republicans and encouraged them to vote for it.  There were 8 Republicans that voted for this bill giving it a super majority based on the ISRA green lighting it.  
If anti-gunners are going to pass anti-gun laws, make them own it.  Don't be part of their team.  The anti-gunners crowed about the ISRA being neutral on the bill and lumped them in with the worst anti-gun groups in the nation!  The passage of this bill has weakened our lawsuits against FOID.  
This is terrible strategy that requires drastic changes at ISRA.  ALL other gun groups strongly opposed this ISRA anti-gun bill.
Below is our response to their "alert" addressing their fallacies

The ISRA IS WRONG!

From the ISRA Thursday Bulletin - June 3, 2021 - Executive Directors Message, Richard Pearson:

ISRA: HB562 would allow for people who want a FOID card, or already have a FOID card, to supply fingerprints on a VOLUNTARY basis to the Illinois State Police and if they did so, would not have to renew their FOID cards ever.

IllinoisCarry: This is a way for anti-gunners to get their foot in the door for mandatory fingerprints.




ISRA: HB562 would change the FOID Act by establishing a Board to handle appeals for the FOID card issues.  Right now, the law reads that the Director of the Illinois State Police is to do appeals.  The Director of the ISP does not have the time or the budget for that, nor the resources.  The establishment of an appeals board with a specific time is a much better way to do the appeal process.  On that board would be a Public Defender to represent law-abiding citizens which seems fairer.

IllinoisCarry: This is an absolute disingenuous argument.  To begin with, the board will be appointed by Gov. Pritzker!  Required time lines have been ignored by ISP for decades, the same disregard for time lines has been shown by the CCL Review Board …why would we expect this new time line to be treated any differently? The current process of appealing to the director is a more equitable process.  If you have met and submitted the standards required to receive your FOID, you get it.  If ISP doesn’t have enough staff to process these appeals, give them the resources to do so instead of hiring Pritzker’s friends to do it.  There is no standard for approval of an appeal …It must require clear and convincing evidence to deny a FOID appeal -  instead of how Pritzker appointees FEEL about your worthiness!


ISRA: The private sale and purchase of firearms is a part of the Second Amendment in my view.  HB562 does not require anyone to go through a dealer.  Instead, they can access a portal that does not require registration of the make, model or serial number of the firearm.

IllinoisCarry: This is another disingenuous statement.  While you don’t have to include type of gun and serial number in contacting the ISP for a private transfer, you have to include that information in the reporting form to the FFL and the ISP will have full access to those records for 20 years.  This is a registration!  Also, this puts a burden on folks in parts of the state without readily accessible FFL’s like in Chicago.  Plus, FFL’s don’t have to do this, they can refuse to accept the responsibility of record keeping and rightfully so.  Should you violate this part of the law twice, you are facing a class 4 felony!  The $25 fee to submit the transfer is another burdensome fee for firearm owners.

Why would any group purporting to protect 2nd amendment rights support a bill featuring fee-based, state-registration of private firearm transactions?  We want and need the Illinois State Rifle Association to be a stronghold for IL gun owners and trusted protector of our rights. Urge them to oppose this bill or find leadership that will.


Mike
Link Posted: 6/21/2021 12:43:00 PM EDT
There were 8 Republicans that voted for this bill giving it a super majority based on the ISRA green lighting it.  
View Quote


Do you have the list of R names?
Link Posted: 6/21/2021 5:05:05 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/21/2021 5:16:25 PM EDT by SwanHunter]
Voted for ISRA anti-gun bill

House:

Batinick
Bennett
Bos
BradyDemmer
Durkin
Lewis
Stevens
Uga­ste
Wheeler

Senate:
Curran

One of our members called Bos and asked why he voted for the bill.  He said it was because of ISRA.
These Republicans gave the House a Super Majority bipartisan vote on this bill!

LET THERE BE NO MISTAKE...The ISRA actively worked this bill.  They passed out misinformation fact sheets.  You don't pass out fact sheets if you are neutral.  They tried to get the FFL's to accept language.  They have no excuse...Bad leadership is the issue!  I've been a lobbyist, I know the ISRA and I know how things work.  The ISRA does not speak for me.
Link Posted: 6/23/2021 12:09:59 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/23/2021 12:10:33 AM EDT by sendit14]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By SwanHunter:
..The ISRA actively worked this bill...
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By SwanHunter:
..The ISRA actively worked this bill...

Why? What is the impetus?



Originally Posted By SwanHunter:
... They passed out misinformation fact sheets.  You don't pass out fact sheets if you are neutral ..

Truth

Link Posted: 6/23/2021 9:56:20 AM EDT
Why? What is the impetus?
View Quote


In my opinion...Their leadership has been flawed for years.  They have basically followed along behind NRA who set the agenda.  When Todd managed to get himself fired, that left a void in leadership and the ISRA has feet on the ground.  Problem is that those feet are not good for us.  They are more interested in capitulating and being part of the process..."at the table" to quote them.  That logic would be okay if they were effective but, they have only managed to weaken our legislator's resolve to resist these anti-gun bills.  Their logic is: let us help you pass a bad bill so you won't pass a really bad bill and that is flawed.  It never ends there.  If the dems. pass a bad gun bill, next session, there will be another bad bill to add to it.  By encouraging our side to vote for their anti-gun bill makes it a bipartisan bill.  The dems. can't be attacked in elections.  
When the bill has language that weakens our legal cases against FOID, we have not been helped.  Make the democrats own all bad gun bills and fight them at the polls.  Allow them to overreach and make our court cases stronger.
IllinoisCarry analyzed the bill and sent recommendation for changes as soon as the ISRA started bragging about their new bill.  They blew us off!  The ISRA is weak...We hate that!  It has been our hope they would emerge as a strong leader in the state and we could be confident they are doing their job.  Their seeking relevance isn't working and with the flawed leadership that has got to change we are in a bad place!
Link Posted: 6/23/2021 7:38:23 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By SwanHunter:


In my opinion...Their leadership has been flawed for years.  They have basically followed along behind NRA who set the agenda.  When Todd managed to get himself fired, that left a void in leadership and the ISRA has feet on the ground.  Problem is that those feet are not good for us.  They are more interested in capitulating and being part of the process..."at the table" to quote them.  That logic would be okay if they were effective but, they have only managed to weaken our legislator's resolve to resist these anti-gun bills.  Their logic is: let us help you pass a bad bill so you won't pass a really bad bill and that is flawed.  It never ends there.  If the dems. pass a bad gun bill, next session, there will be another bad bill to add to it.  By encouraging our side to vote for their anti-gun bill makes it a bipartisan bill.  The dems. can't be attacked in elections.  
When the bill has language that weakens our legal cases against FOID, we have not been helped.  Make the democrats own all bad gun bills and fight them at the polls.  Allow them to overreach and make our court cases stronger.
IllinoisCarry analyzed the bill and sent recommendation for changes as soon as the ISRA started bragging about their new bill.  They blew us off!  The ISRA is weak...We hate that!  It has been our hope they would emerge as a strong leader in the state and we could be confident they are doing their job.  Their seeking relevance isn't working and with the flawed leadership that has got to change we are in a bad place!
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By SwanHunter:
Why? What is the impetus?


In my opinion...Their leadership has been flawed for years.  They have basically followed along behind NRA who set the agenda.  When Todd managed to get himself fired, that left a void in leadership and the ISRA has feet on the ground.  Problem is that those feet are not good for us.  They are more interested in capitulating and being part of the process..."at the table" to quote them.  That logic would be okay if they were effective but, they have only managed to weaken our legislator's resolve to resist these anti-gun bills.  Their logic is: let us help you pass a bad bill so you won't pass a really bad bill and that is flawed.  It never ends there.  If the dems. pass a bad gun bill, next session, there will be another bad bill to add to it.  By encouraging our side to vote for their anti-gun bill makes it a bipartisan bill.  The dems. can't be attacked in elections.  
When the bill has language that weakens our legal cases against FOID, we have not been helped.  Make the democrats own all bad gun bills and fight them at the polls.  Allow them to overreach and make our court cases stronger.
IllinoisCarry analyzed the bill and sent recommendation for changes as soon as the ISRA started bragging about their new bill.  They blew us off!  The ISRA is weak...We hate that!  It has been our hope they would emerge as a strong leader in the state and we could be confident they are doing their job.  Their seeking relevance isn't working and with the flawed leadership that has got to change we are in a bad place!


Thanks.

It sucks that, once again, ego gets in the way of progress.
Link Posted: 7/7/2021 10:36:41 AM EDT
In the words of Benjamin Franklin

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

We have now been sold out by the ISRA and plain out sold by the NRA under the current leadership.

Both of these entities have helped our enemies to the point neither is to be trusted.


The fight continues, so pick your allies wisely!
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