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Posted: 10/9/2013 1:47:46 PM EST
[Last Edit: 4/13/2014 4:54:40 PM EST by MichMan1]
SBR Bill Status

An SBR/SBS bill has been introduced and passed the Senate.  It was then amended in the House Judiciary Committee (H-1).  H-1 passed the House on March 13, 2014.  The House version was passed by the Senate on March 18, 2014.  The Governor signed on 3-26 and it was effected on 3-27-14.  

The new law legalizes SBR/SBS if federally approved.  It then divides the SBR/SBS world into: 1) federally approved 26 inch and under SBR/SBS's that must be registered as pistols under state law; and 2) over 26 inch federally approved SBR/SBSs that are not to be registered as pistols under state law, BUT will require a copy of the federal Form 1, 3, 4 paperwork to be produced upon request to a peace officer while transporting or using the firearm.  This second group of SBR/SBS are not eligible for concealed carry.

Also remember a Form 1 is used to Make an SBR/SBS and a Form 4 to transfer a previously made SBR/SBS.
If you have a pistol already licensed with the state and you want to make an SBR from it, use Form 1.
If you have a pistol already licensed with the state and you want to make an SBR from it for your trust, then the Form 1 to make is executed in the name of the trust.
Link Posted: 10/9/2013 2:55:50 PM EST
I'll write letters and do whatever needs to be done to help this pass, but why is the word "make" added when the word "manufacture" is already there.  What is the difference?
Link Posted: 10/9/2013 2:57:11 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/9/2013 3:44:24 PM EST by rjbergen]
Find your Senators here!

Find your Representatives here!

ETA: Both my Senator and Representative are Dems I sent them an email anyways.
Link Posted: 10/9/2013 3:06:37 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By akpatriot22:
I'll write letters and do whatever needs to be done to help this pass, but why is the word "make" added when the word "manufacture" is already there.  What is the difference?
View Quote

My guess is it has to do something with the legalese definition of manufacture. My basic guess is that in legalese, manufacturing is a more formal, large scale process like an assembly line or factory, while making is cruder and smaller scale, like in someone's garage (normal people) or basement (ARFCommers ).
Link Posted: 10/9/2013 5:12:09 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/9/2013 5:16:54 PM EST by MichMan1]
Make addresses Form 1--"Application to Make"  Manufacture is more often associated with Class 2 Manufacturing.  Trying to cover all the angles.
Link Posted: 10/9/2013 5:27:10 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By rjbergen:
Find your Senators here!

Find your Representatives here!

ETA: Both my Senator and Representative are Dems I sent them an email anyways.
View Quote

if someone could draft up something for me to e-mail to my senator and representative i would greatly appreciate it! (i really suck at at writing things like that lol) my rep (Rick Outman) is a nra member not sure about my senator (Judy Emmons)
Link Posted: 10/10/2013 7:38:12 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By MichMan1:
Make addresses Form 1--"Application to Make"  Manufacture is more often associated with Class 2 Manufacturing.  Trying to cover all the angles.
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Essentially along the lines of what I though. Make is small scale and manufacture is large scale. Damn legalese confusing the peasants
Link Posted: 10/10/2013 2:55:43 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By rjbergen:

Essentially along the lines of what I though. Make is small scale and manufacture is large scale. Damn legalese confusing the peasants
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Originally Posted By rjbergen:
Originally Posted By MichMan1:
Make addresses Form 1--"Application to Make"  Manufacture is more often associated with Class 2 Manufacturing.  Trying to cover all the angles.

Essentially along the lines of what I though. Make is small scale and manufacture is large scale. Damn legalese confusing the peasants

you can think of "make" as you buying the parts and putting one together yourself, for personal use, even tho you can sell if if so desired, "manufacture" can be thought of as building them more then 1 at a time, specifically for sale
Link Posted: 10/10/2013 3:08:58 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/10/2013 3:32:12 PM EST by 248Shooter]
Emailed my reps thank you.
Also tweeted to our following and shared on our Facebook page.
Link Posted: 10/10/2013 5:58:08 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By dave89iroc:

you can think of "make" as you buying the parts and putting one together yourself, for personal use, even tho you can sell if if so desired, "manufacture" can be thought of as building them more then 1 at a time, specifically for sale
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Originally Posted By dave89iroc:
Originally Posted By rjbergen:
Originally Posted By MichMan1:
Make addresses Form 1--"Application to Make"  Manufacture is more often associated with Class 2 Manufacturing.  Trying to cover all the angles.

Essentially along the lines of what I though. Make is small scale and manufacture is large scale. Damn legalese confusing the peasants

you can think of "make" as you buying the parts and putting one together yourself, for personal use, even tho you can sell if if so desired, "manufacture" can be thought of as building them more then 1 at a time, specifically for sale



See now I'm confused again.  So if I bought the parts and built a SBR from a stripped lower, is that "making" a SBR?  Or since the stripped lowered was made by a manufacturer you didn't technically make it, but if you milled your own receiver it would be consider "making".  

All I want to know is if I have an AR pistol and slap a butt stock on it, would that be legal under this bill (assumes everything else is legal and you wait to get the tax stamp) ?

Link Posted: 10/10/2013 6:21:10 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/10/2013 6:31:58 PM EST by Engel12626]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By akpatriot22:
snip...

All I want to know is if I have an AR pistol and slap a butt stock on it, would that be legal under this bill (assumes everything else is legal and you wait to get the tax stamp) ?
View Quote

As far as I know, that is safe. I hear that's what most people do so they can shoot while waiting for the stamp.

Edit: and yes I called my reps today
Link Posted: 10/10/2013 9:13:03 PM EST
Emailed Senator and Representatives.
Link Posted: 10/10/2013 9:19:22 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/10/2013 9:21:24 PM EST by rjbergen]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Engel12626:

As far as I know, that is safe. I hear that's what most people do so they can shoot while waiting for the stamp.
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Originally Posted By Engel12626:
Originally Posted By akpatriot22:
snip...

All I want to know is if I have an AR pistol and slap a butt stock on it, would that be legal under this bill (assumes everything else is legal and you wait to get the tax stamp) ?

As far as I know, that is safe. I hear that's what most people do so they can shoot while waiting for the stamp.

Yes, that sounds corect. Should the bill pass, you may apply for a tax stamp. Once the tax stamp is received you may attach the buttstock.
Link Posted: 10/10/2013 9:31:24 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By akpatriot22:



See now I'm confused again.  So if I bought the parts and built a SBR from a stripped lower, is that "making" a SBR?  Or since the stripped lowered was made by a manufacturer you didn't technically make it, but if you milled your own receiver it would be consider "making".  

All I want to know is if I have an AR pistol and slap a butt stock on it, would that be legal under this bill (assumes everything else is legal and you wait to get the tax stamp) ?

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Originally Posted By akpatriot22:
Originally Posted By dave89iroc:
Originally Posted By rjbergen:
Originally Posted By MichMan1:
Make addresses Form 1--"Application to Make"  Manufacture is more often associated with Class 2 Manufacturing.  Trying to cover all the angles.

Essentially along the lines of what I though. Make is small scale and manufacture is large scale. Damn legalese confusing the peasants

you can think of "make" as you buying the parts and putting one together yourself, for personal use, even tho you can sell if if so desired, "manufacture" can be thought of as building them more then 1 at a time, specifically for sale



See now I'm confused again.  So if I bought the parts and built a SBR from a stripped lower, is that "making" a SBR?  Or since the stripped lowered was made by a manufacturer you didn't technically make it, but if you milled your own receiver it would be consider "making".  

All I want to know is if I have an AR pistol and slap a butt stock on it, would that be legal under this bill (assumes everything else is legal and you wait to get the tax stamp) ?



Good lord.

You make a SBR by buying a short barrel and installing it on whatever receiver you want.

Own a pistol AR say with a 10.5" barrel?  You can use the serial number from that lower and once you're tax stamp comes back, yes put a stock on it.
Own a rifle AR say with a 16" barrel?  You use the serial number off that lower and install a short barrel on it once you have the stamp.
Own a receiver that is not assembled?  You use the serial number off that and build it once you have your stamp.

You want to make a receiver from a piece of metal, by all means do so.  Mark your serial number on it as a self built firearm (legal to do so) and use that to apply for your stamp.  Build as you see fit once you have your stamp back.

Manufacture means you are licensed business to make as many ar lowers (or any firearm) as you want and sell them to the public.  Milling out an 80% lower for personal use is not a business.  If you were to produce a bunch of lowers and sell them without a license to do so- May The Lord have mercy on your soul for the reaming you would receive from the Feds.
Link Posted: 10/11/2013 1:15:25 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Thumbtack:

Good lord.

You make a SBR by buying a short barrel and installing it on whatever receiver you want.

Own a pistol AR say with a 10.5" barrel?  You can use the serial number from that lower and once you're tax stamp comes back, yes put a stock on it.
Own a rifle AR say with a 16" barrel?  You use the serial number off that lower and install a short barrel on it once you have the stamp.
Own a receiver that is not assembled?  You use the serial number off that and build it once you have your stamp.

You want to make a receiver from a piece of metal, by all means do so.  Mark your serial number on it as a self built firearm (legal to do so) and use that to apply for your stamp.  Build as you see fit once you have your stamp back.

Manufacture means you are licensed business to make as many ar lowers (or any firearm) as you want and sell them to the public.  Milling out an 80% lower for personal use is not a business.  If you were to produce a bunch of lowers and sell them without a license to do so- May The Lord have mercy on your soul for the reaming you would receive from the Feds.
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Haha yeah I know, I messed it up it my head when I read it due to the fact that the first section of the bill says that a person can't do anything with a SBR but then has an amendment saying that this section does not apply.  So I was thinking well it says I can't have a SBR and then forgetting the next part that was added voided everything in the previous section.  Been a busy week, I can't even remember what I had for breakfast let alone read this bill straight.

Regardless wrote my reps, and hoping this passes.
Link Posted: 10/11/2013 2:07:54 AM EST
Done and done
Link Posted: 10/11/2013 9:03:10 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/11/2013 9:22:07 AM EST by cybersniper]
Reps contacted.

I see they included the pistol registration part in the law also. Probably to appease MSP and some on the fence about it. Plus it will fall under the MI definition of a pistol. This way they will be registered with the Feds and the State.

In your contacts with your Reps/Senators I would stress that this law is concurrent with Federal Law. It will simplify the MI firearms laws and make them in line with Federal Law. Also that the Federal approval process takes months, including a criminal records check, local LEO approval, finger printing, and photo ID. I would add that firearm owners who wish to possess these types of firearms are collectors and gun enthusiasts, not criminals, and would not go through this long approval process for any thing but all lawful reasons.
Link Posted: 10/11/2013 10:30:03 AM EST
Received my first response.

Dear XXXXX:

Thank you for your recent letter in support of second amendment rights. I appreciate knowing your views. I would like to let you know that I support second amendment rights. . I appreciate the confidence you have shown in contacting me and I hope I can be of assistance. This bill would allow people to possess a short-barreled shotgun or a short-barreled rifle that is lawfully made, manufactured, transferred, or possessed under Federal Law. The bill has been referred to the Committee on Judiciary, unfortunately I am not on this committee but I will keep your thoughts in mind if the bill ever comes before me for a vote.
Sincerely,


John Pappageorge
State Senator
District 13
Link Posted: 10/11/2013 11:38:05 AM EST
Done.
Link Posted: 10/11/2013 12:41:13 PM EST
I hope so. My dream has been to own a Krink.
Link Posted: 10/11/2013 3:44:18 PM EST
MI Senate Judiciary Committee
Committee Members
•Rick Jones (R) Committee Chair, 24th District
•Tonya Schuitmaker (R) Majority Vice Chair, 20 District
•Tory Rocca (R) 10 District
•Steven M Bieda (D) Minority Committee Chair, 9th District
Link Posted: 10/11/2013 5:50:39 PM EST
Rick Jones should be yes.  I wrote him many times to ask Mike Cox to legalize suppressors.  He was always very quick to do so and supportive.

My new rep (I moved) wrote me back today to say he would keep my thoughts in mind if it comes to vote.
Link Posted: 10/11/2013 8:39:18 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/11/2013 8:39:43 PM EST by madmathew]
Called my Senator,  should we call those on the Judiciary Committee also?
 
Link Posted: 10/11/2013 10:43:52 PM EST
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Originally Posted By cybersniper:
MI Senate Judiciary Committee
Committee Members
•Rick Jones (R) Committee Chair, 24th District
•Tonya Schuitmaker (R) Majority Vice Chair, 20 District
•Tory Rocca (R) 10 District
•Steven M Bieda (D) Minority Committee Chair, 9th District
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This bill will be brought up to the committee on the 15th.
Link Posted: 10/12/2013 11:49:30 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/12/2013 3:33:48 PM EST by rjbergen]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Engel12626:

This bill will be brought up to the committee on the 15th.
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Originally Posted By Engel12626:
Originally Posted By cybersniper:
MI Senate Judiciary Committee
Committee Members
•Rick Jones (R) Committee Chair, 24th District
•Tonya Schuitmaker (R) Majority Vice Chair, 20 District
•Tory Rocca (R) 10 District
•Steven M Bieda (D) Minority Committee Chair, 9th District

This bill will be brought up to the committee on the 15th.

Looks like I need to call Bieda. He's my Sen. I already emailed him but haven't gotten a response.

Actually he's having a coffee hour on Mon. I should try to go talk to him.
Link Posted: 10/12/2013 6:05:58 PM EST
We shouldn't be penalized just because we're Michigan residents.  Michigan residents should be able to apply for the tax stamp through the NFA just like so many other residents of other states. I know I'm preaching to the choir here, but I've discussed this absurd restriction on lawful citizens so many times with numerous State representatives. I would LOVE to have a 10 1/2" barrel AR for home defense and Michigan's current restrictions put me at a disadvantage when trying to protect my family, because I'm left with either a pistol or a long barreled weapon that is difficult to move through the normal interior spaces of a residence.

Link Posted: 10/13/2013 12:18:54 PM EST
I would add in your letter that they are already available in full auto an DD configurations.
Link Posted: 10/13/2013 12:27:22 PM EST
Reps contacted.
Link Posted: 10/13/2013 12:35:14 PM EST
C&R is also a route that many have taken with SBS.

It's basically unnecessary. Allow those with NFA tax stamps to possess the firearms.  That simple and it just makes good sense. It will not impact law enforcement in any way, because criminals can still be charged and the firearms in current pistol configurations are already highly concealable and have been for some time.

Link Posted: 10/14/2013 8:21:50 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/14/2013 8:23:50 AM EST by MichMan1]
rjbergen,that would be great if you could talk to Bieda.  The old law is just outdated.
Link Posted: 10/14/2013 11:08:54 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By MichMan1:
rjbergen,that would be great if you could talk to Bieda.  The old law is just outdated.
View Quote

I managed to speak to Bieda for a minute or two this morning. I went to a coffee hour he held and snagged him personally at the end. The other bumbling idiots there wouldn't let me get an edge in. Sounded like the two most vocal were regulars at his coffee hours. One lady complained that Michigan wasn't doing anything about Canada building a used nuclear waste holding facility about 1/2 mile for the Lake Huron shoreline. She didn't seem to understand the fact that Canada is a sovereign country and the State of Michigan has absolutely zero control over where they store nuclear waste. All we can do is send a pretty please don't build there letter, but she refused to accept that. So much stupidity

Back to the fun things. He had not seen the bill yet, but it is on track to be brought up for discussion tomorrow at 2:30PM in room 110 of the Farnum Building in Lansing. It would be great if anyone would be able to attend. I might try to go, but I'd need to ask for time off work. Not sure about the short notice for the time off.

Sen. Bieda seemed receptive to the bill. I made a few keys points in my limited time:
1. Explained what SBRs and SBSs are.
2. Stated it would bring Michigan law in line with federal law.
3. Stated that the other NFA items are currently legal in Michigan.
4. Stated how strictly controlled NFA items are with the application, $200, photo, fingerprints, and background check.
5. Pointed out the section in the proposed bill that would require SBRs and SBSs to comply with Michigan's pistol registration for firearms under 26" OAL.
6. Explained how this would open up a new venue for manufacturers in Michigan to sell these firearms country wide. It could significantly boost sales for some manufacturers.

He said he didn't see an issue with the bill himself after he read the copy I provided. He said he would listen to the testimony provided tomorrow and wanted to see what the State Police said.

I'm not sure what the State Police's opinion is. I have heard that the Attorney General supports the bill, but don't have hard evidence of such.

I'm seriously considering going up to the meeting tomorrow.
Link Posted: 10/14/2013 3:36:48 PM EST
Also mention all the extra sales tax they could be collecting. I see all the suppressors selling now they have to be noticing that extra cash flow ?
Link Posted: 10/14/2013 5:20:39 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Easy_E:
Also mention all the extra sales tax they could be collecting. I see all the suppressors selling now they have to be noticing that extra cash flow ?
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In the grand scheme of things state sales tax collected from NFA item sales are a drop in the overall bucket of state sales tax, but they would be collecting more.
Link Posted: 10/14/2013 6:09:31 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By rjbergen:

In the grand scheme of things state sales tax collected from NFA item sales are a drop in the overall bucket of state sales tax, but they would be collecting more.
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Originally Posted By rjbergen:
Originally Posted By Easy_E:
Also mention all the extra sales tax they could be collecting. I see all the suppressors selling now they have to be noticing that extra cash flow ?

In the grand scheme of things state sales tax collected from NFA item sales are a drop in the overall bucket of state sales tax, but they would be collecting more.

It would be interesting to see the numbers.
Link Posted: 10/14/2013 10:21:19 PM EST
Thanks for briefing him.  Several of us will be there.  The pistol registration should satisfy the State Police.
Link Posted: 10/15/2013 7:43:36 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By MichMan1:
Thanks for briefing him.  Several of us will be there.  The pistol registration should satisfy the State Police.
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I plan to attend as well. Has anyone planned to testify to the committee?
Link Posted: 10/15/2013 11:12:24 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/15/2013 12:56:03 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/15/2013 2:26:55 PM EST by rjbergen]
Step one was a success.
Link Posted: 10/15/2013 2:29:13 PM EST
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Originally Posted By rjbergen:
Step one was a success.
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I presume that this means it made it out of the committee and will see the floor at some point?
Link Posted: 10/15/2013 5:02:18 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/15/2013 5:26:57 PM EST by 248Shooter]
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Originally Posted By rjbergen:
Step one was a success.
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Looks like it passed out of committee Mlive
Link Posted: 10/15/2013 5:53:53 PM EST
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Originally Posted By H60ADriver:

I presume that this means it made it out of the committee and will see the floor at some point?
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Originally Posted By H60ADriver:
Originally Posted By rjbergen:
Step one was a success.

I presume that this means it made it out of the committee and will see the floor at some point?

It did make it out of committee, unanimously I might add. Sen. Bieda was the only committee member with reservations. My talk with him yesterday prepped him for what to expect today. Along with that, the individuals who testified today were able to answer his questions fairly well.

Overall, the testimonies accomplished what they were trying to do, but I think they were a bit disjointed and could have been slightly confusing for someone not familiar with firearms laws.

Now that the bill is out of committee, it can be brought to the floor, but I don't believe there is any guarantee it will be. However, we can assume it will make it. After that it goes to the House committee, then to the House floor, then Gov. Snyder. There's still more work to be done, but the ball is rolling now. We just need to make it all the way.
Link Posted: 10/15/2013 6:09:00 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By rjbergen:

It did make it out of committee, unanimously I might add. Sen. Bieda was the only committee member with reservations. My talk with him yesterday prepped him for what to expect today. Along with that, the individuals who testified today were able to answer his questions fairly well.

Overall, the testimonies accomplished what they were trying to do, but I think they were a bit disjointed and could have been slightly confusing for someone not familiar with firearms laws.

Now that the bill is out of committee, it can be brought to the floor, but I don't believe there is any guarantee it will be. However, we can assume it will make it. After that it goes to the House committee, then to the House floor, then Gov. Snyder. There's still more work to be done, but the ball is rolling now. We just need to make it all the way.
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Originally Posted By rjbergen:
Originally Posted By H60ADriver:
Originally Posted By rjbergen:
Step one was a success.

I presume that this means it made it out of the committee and will see the floor at some point?

It did make it out of committee, unanimously I might add. Sen. Bieda was the only committee member with reservations. My talk with him yesterday prepped him for what to expect today. Along with that, the individuals who testified today were able to answer his questions fairly well.

Overall, the testimonies accomplished what they were trying to do, but I think they were a bit disjointed and could have been slightly confusing for someone not familiar with firearms laws.

Now that the bill is out of committee, it can be brought to the floor, but I don't believe there is any guarantee it will be. However, we can assume it will make it. After that it goes to the House committee, then to the House floor, then Gov. Snyder. There's still more work to be done, but the ball is rolling now. We just need to make it all the way.


Thanks very much for the updates and your efforts on this.
Link Posted: 10/15/2013 6:35:27 PM EST
From the Mlive link posted earlier :

The Michigan State Police are neutral on the bill, and there was no opposition testimony offered during Tuesday's hearing. The measure now heads to the full Senate for consideration

http://www.mlive.com/politics/index.ssf/2013/10/michigan_senate_panel_approves_2.html


Glad to see the State Police are not against this.
Link Posted: 10/15/2013 7:50:07 PM EST
I heard it passed unaninmously..... that's gotta be a good sign.
Link Posted: 10/15/2013 10:45:34 PM EST
Great!
Link Posted: 10/16/2013 5:31:13 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By MichMan1:
Thanks for briefing him.  Several of us will be there.  The pistol registration should satisfy the State Police.
View Quote


(Slams on Breaks)

Wait so SBR's would be registered as pistols....................does that mean the could be carried as truck guns?
Link Posted: 10/16/2013 7:15:19 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Gunnerpalace:


(Slams on Breaks)

Wait so SBR's would be registered as pistols....................does that mean they could be carried as truck guns?
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Originally Posted By Gunnerpalace:
Originally Posted By MichMan1:
Thanks for briefing him.  Several of us will be there.  The pistol registration should satisfy the State Police.


(Slams on Breaks)

Wait so SBR's would be registered as pistols....................does that mean they could be carried as truck guns?

If it's OAL is less than 26" then yeah I would think you're right. Meets the MI definition of a pistol.
Link Posted: 10/16/2013 8:02:40 AM EST
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Originally Posted By Engel12626:
If it's OAL is less than 26" then yeah I would think you're right. Meets the MI definition of a pistol.
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Originally Posted By Engel12626:
Originally Posted By Gunnerpalace:
Originally Posted By MichMan1:
Thanks for briefing him. Several of us will be there.
The pistol registration should satisfy the State Police.
(Slams on Breaks)

Wait so SBR's would be registered as pistols....................does that mean they could be carried as truck guns?
If it's OAL is less than 26" then yeah I would think you're right. Meets the MI definition of a pistol.
Gunner, I do believe you are correct, with the clarification provided by Engel.

MI SB 610 subsection 4 states:
(4) A person, excluding a manufacturer, lawfully making, transferring, or possessing a firearm under this section shall comply with section 2 or 2a of 1927 PA 372, MCL 28.422 and 28.422a.

MCL 28.422 pertains to the MI pistol purchase permit and pistol registration, while MCL 28.422a pertains to no longer needing to obtain a purchase permit in advance for a pistol purchased from an FFL.

MCL 750.222 provides the MI legal definition of "firearm" and "pistol":
(d) "Firearm" means a weapon from which a dangerous projectile may be propelled by an explosive, or by gas or air. Firearm does not include a smooth bore rifle or handgun designed and manufactured exclusively for propelling by a spring, or by gas or air, BBs not exceeding .177 caliber.


(e) "Pistol" means a loaded or unloaded firearm that is 26 inches or less in length, or a loaded or unloaded firearm that by its construction and appearance conceals itself as a firearm.
As you can see from this, SB 610's ammendments to MCL 750.224b would require you to comply with MI's pistol registration.

MCL 750.227 states:
(2) A person shall not carry a pistol concealed on or about his or her person, or, whether concealed or otherwise, in a vehicle operated or occupied by the person, except in his or her dwelling house, place of business, or on other land possessed by the person, without a license to carry the pistol as provided by law and if licensed, shall not carry the pistol in a place or manner inconsistent with any restrictions upon such license.
What you learn from that is that you cannot carry a pistol in a vehicle unless you have a CPL. If your SBR or SBS is under 26" in length, it must be registered with MI as a pistol; therefore, you should be able to carry it in your vehicle.

As a side note, I'm curious how the MI pistol registration will be handled. Say you Form 1 an AR currently own, it would not be a pistol purchased through an FFL then. Since it's not purchased from an FFL, you are required to obtain a purchase permit prior to purchase, which is valid for 30 days. If you Form 1 it, you cannot have a short barrel on the lower receiver until you have the tax stamp in your possession. To comply with MI pistol law would you be required to do it as follows:

1. Fill out Form 1 for the AR lower you currently own.
2. Await tax stamp's return.
3. With tax stamp in hand, apply for pistol purchase permit.
4. Order short barreled upper.
5. Assemble SBR and return pistol registration.

Does that sound appropriate? Since you mentioned that, I started thinking about the registration requirements and the timelines.
Link Posted: 10/16/2013 8:11:12 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By rjbergen:
snip...

To comply with MI pistol law would you be required to do it as follows:

1. Fill out Form 1 for the AR lower you currently own.
2. Await tax stamp's return.
3. With tax stamp in hand, apply for pistol purchase permit.
4. Order short barreled upper.
5. Assemble SBR and return pistol registration.

Does that sound appropriate? Since you mentioned that, I started thinking about the registration requirements and the timelines.
View Quote

Or build and register it as an actual AR pistol, and ad the appropriate stock bits when you get the stamp?
Link Posted: 10/16/2013 9:09:49 AM EST

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By rjbergen:



Gunner, I do believe you are correct, with the clarification provided by Engel.



MI SB 610 subsection 4 states:
(4) A person, excluding a manufacturer, lawfully making, transferring, or possessing a firearm under this section shall comply with section 2 or 2a of 1927 PA 372, MCL 28.422 and 28.422a.
MCL 28.422 pertains to the MI pistol purchase permit and pistol registration, while MCL 28.422a pertains to no longer needing to obtain a purchase permit in advance for a pistol purchased from an FFL.



MCL 750.222 provides the MI legal definition of "firearm" and "pistol":
(d) "Firearm" means a weapon from which a dangerous projectile may be propelled by an explosive, or by gas or air. Firearm does not include a smooth bore rifle or handgun designed and manufactured exclusively for propelling by a spring, or by gas or air, BBs not exceeding .177 caliber. (e) "Pistol" means a loaded or unloaded firearm that is 26 inches or less in length, or a loaded or unloaded firearm that by its construction and appearance conceals itself as a firearm.
As you can see from this, SB 610's ammendments to MCL 750.224b would require you to comply with MI's pistol registration.



MCL 750.227 states:
(2) A person shall not carry a pistol concealed on or about his or her person, or, whether concealed or otherwise, in a vehicle operated or occupied by the person, except in his or her dwelling house, place of business, or on other land possessed by the person, without a license to carry the pistol as provided by law and if licensed, shall not carry the pistol in a place or manner inconsistent with any restrictions upon such license.
What you learn from that is that you cannot carry a pistol in a vehicle unless you have a CPL. If your SBR or SBS is under 26" in length, it must be registered with MI as a pistol; therefore, you should be able to carry it in your vehicle.



As a side note, I'm curious how the MI pistol registration will be handled. Say you Form 1 an AR currently own, it would not be a pistol purchased through an FFL then. Since it's not purchased from an FFL, you are required to obtain a purchase permit prior to purchase, which is valid for 30 days. If you Form 1 it, you cannot have a short barrel on the lower receiver until you have the tax stamp in your possession. To comply with MI pistol law would you be required to do it as follows:



1. Fill out Form 1 for the AR lower you currently own.

2. Await tax stamp's return.

3. With tax stamp in hand, apply for pistol purchase permit.

4. Order short barreled upper.

5. Assemble SBR and return pistol registration.



Does that sound appropriate? Since you mentioned that, I started thinking about the registration requirements and the timelines.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By rjbergen:



Originally Posted By Engel12626:


Originally Posted By Gunnerpalace:


Originally Posted By MichMan1:

Thanks for briefing him. Several of us will be there.

The pistol registration should satisfy the State Police.
(Slams on Breaks)



Wait so SBR's would be registered as pistols....................does that mean they could be carried as truck guns?
If it's OAL is less than 26" then yeah I would think you're right. Meets the MI definition of a pistol.
Gunner, I do believe you are correct, with the clarification provided by Engel.



MI SB 610 subsection 4 states:
(4) A person, excluding a manufacturer, lawfully making, transferring, or possessing a firearm under this section shall comply with section 2 or 2a of 1927 PA 372, MCL 28.422 and 28.422a.
MCL 28.422 pertains to the MI pistol purchase permit and pistol registration, while MCL 28.422a pertains to no longer needing to obtain a purchase permit in advance for a pistol purchased from an FFL.



MCL 750.222 provides the MI legal definition of "firearm" and "pistol":
(d) "Firearm" means a weapon from which a dangerous projectile may be propelled by an explosive, or by gas or air. Firearm does not include a smooth bore rifle or handgun designed and manufactured exclusively for propelling by a spring, or by gas or air, BBs not exceeding .177 caliber. (e) "Pistol" means a loaded or unloaded firearm that is 26 inches or less in length, or a loaded or unloaded firearm that by its construction and appearance conceals itself as a firearm.
As you can see from this, SB 610's ammendments to MCL 750.224b would require you to comply with MI's pistol registration.



MCL 750.227 states:
(2) A person shall not carry a pistol concealed on or about his or her person, or, whether concealed or otherwise, in a vehicle operated or occupied by the person, except in his or her dwelling house, place of business, or on other land possessed by the person, without a license to carry the pistol as provided by law and if licensed, shall not carry the pistol in a place or manner inconsistent with any restrictions upon such license.
What you learn from that is that you cannot carry a pistol in a vehicle unless you have a CPL. If your SBR or SBS is under 26" in length, it must be registered with MI as a pistol; therefore, you should be able to carry it in your vehicle.



As a side note, I'm curious how the MI pistol registration will be handled. Say you Form 1 an AR currently own, it would not be a pistol purchased through an FFL then. Since it's not purchased from an FFL, you are required to obtain a purchase permit prior to purchase, which is valid for 30 days. If you Form 1 it, you cannot have a short barrel on the lower receiver until you have the tax stamp in your possession. To comply with MI pistol law would you be required to do it as follows:



1. Fill out Form 1 for the AR lower you currently own.

2. Await tax stamp's return.

3. With tax stamp in hand, apply for pistol purchase permit.

4. Order short barreled upper.

5. Assemble SBR and return pistol registration.



Does that sound appropriate? Since you mentioned that, I started thinking about the registration requirements and the timelines.
You don't need a purchase permit if you have your CPL.   If you're planning on carrying it in the car I'm guessing you already have your CPL.



 
Link Posted: 10/16/2013 9:25:29 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By madmathew:
You don't need a purchase permit if you have your CPL.   If you're planning on carrying it in the car I'm guessing you already have your CPL.
View Quote

Good catch, forgot about that exemption.

The proper procedure then is just Form 1 the receiver, wait for tax stamp, buy barrel/upper (or transfer from a pistol lower if you have one), assemble SBR, submit pistol registration if under 26" OAL. Simple enough.

Here's to hoping it makes it the rest of the way though the process. It's definitely off to a good start!
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