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Posted: 5/16/2020 4:32:43 PM EDT
Long story short I sent paid a guy for a gun I saw listed on Florida gun trader and he was supposed to ship it. Never gives me the tracking and now it is not shipped because of reasons that make no sense.

Clearly this guy is a thief and has no intention of sending the gun. 50+ emails back and forth saying it had already shipped, etc...

I paid with Zelle through my bank, which now doing research looks to have been a huge mistake.

Anything else besides FTC and FBI online fraud reports? Should I bother filing a police report with my PD?

Live and learn I guess, when buying from that particular website it'll be FTF or nothing.
Link Posted: 5/16/2020 5:16:51 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/16/2020 5:43:49 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/16/2020 6:11:06 PM EDT
Yikes, that sucks. I don't know what recourse you may have but I'd agree that anything bought or sold via FGT or Armslist outside of a known FFL needs to be a FTF transaction with cash or the physical item in hand.
Link Posted: 5/17/2020 12:18:47 PM EDT
Sucks that some people have to be such A-holes. Sounds like you can chalk this experience up to "live and learn". Private transactions should always be in person.
Link Posted: 5/17/2020 7:02:50 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/17/2020 7:07:52 PM EDT by amediocreshooter]
File a police report in his jurisdiction and yours. Include all the info you have (to send with zelle you need a first and last name. Phone number. Maybe email. Try to find his address via property records). When they’re filed you will get a police report number.

Email him the police report case numbers. Don’t request anything. Just let him know you’ve filed reports for theft.

He may freak and ship it. Or he may not.

If he doesn’t, send him a demand letter from a lawyer. It costs about $150. Basically it says he has 20 business days to deliver or he will be served with small claims court papers.

This should get movement from him. If he sends the gun, you should sue him anyway for time and legal fees. Because he’s a thief. And fuck him.

ETA: Doesn’t matter if you paid with PayPal or not. They won’t give any fucks if you tell them the item is a gun.

Good luck.
Link Posted: 5/17/2020 9:45:08 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By osprey21:
His FGT board name?
View Quote

Town, city?
Link Posted: 5/18/2020 3:30:49 AM EDT
You do not need a lawyer for the demand letter. Just send it certified. After he ignores it you can file in small claims.
Link Posted: 5/18/2020 5:26:29 AM EDT
All you can do is attempt to file a police report where you live. The FBI and any other alphabet agencies won't care. The agency who talks your report might not put much effort into solving your case... hard truth about the matter.

You might get told it's a civil issue, which based on face value I might disagree, but I'm just some guy on the internet. It will depend on various facts and circumstances connected to your deal to ascertain whether or not it gets classified as criminal or civil.

You might get lucky and the seller has a track record, your case linked with others, could form a case for theft/fraud.

In the end, don't expect much if the seller fails to respond.

Link Posted: 5/18/2020 6:45:59 AM EDT
If the seller is truly a thief, there isn't much you can do as he will be well experienced.

Even if you send a police report or what ever, I am sure the guy knows all he has to say is it was mailed (lost in the mail) or even that you stopped by and picked it up already or did actually receive it.

It is unfortunately but the the truth.

Wish you the best of luck.
Link Posted: 5/18/2020 8:58:01 AM EDT
I was emailing back and forth with him for the 104UR, he stated he was in the keys, sent pictures and asked for payment. I am 45 minutes away from the keys and asked to meet in person. He kept avoiding to meet personally and offering to ship, that set off a red flag. I told him the only way I would pay is if he would go to an FFL and have them sign it into their books and ship it to my ffl. Once the shipping FFL confirmed the gun was in their possession I would send payment, also asked for a picture of the rifle with a handwritten note with his name and the days date as well as his phone number. He sent me a google VOIP number and I cut off comms, too many red flags.
Link Posted: 5/18/2020 9:59:20 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/18/2020 10:04:56 AM EDT by patw]
Did you contact the ffl dealer he was shipping it through to make sure they had it in their possession prior to sending payment? Unfortunately, there are a few scumbags on that site and those that say "for shipping only" and will not meet ftf, should never be contacted, as most of those are scams and they have fake items  listed on many sites all over the place. It is a hard lesson to learn and I do feel for you. Like others have said, not much will really be done as it happens all the time. A friend of mine told me his grandmother was scammed out of  almost $20K, as she fell for a kidnapping hoax just a couple weeks ago. Now she is getting solicited by scammers every day for other things.  It is a shame we have so many scammers that can ruin things.

One thing you could do is log onto the  FGT and start a couple ads exposing this guy, so others won't be tricked in the future. It doesn't do much for you but can help others.

Personally, I have had a few great transactions with some people on that site and have always required a ftf, they be a ccw holder, a phone number and a bill of sale for us both. Everyone I have done a transaction with had no problems with any of that.
Link Posted: 5/18/2020 10:45:22 AM EDT
Realistically, I doubt the gun ever existed and I wonder if this guy is necessarily even in the US. The problem with free and open classified sites like FGT coupled with online money transfer services is that the guy on the other end could be in Azerbaijan for all you really know. Apparently Zelle doesn't offer any kind of fraud protection so I suspect you're probably out of luck. I've been buying and selling on FGT and Armslist for almost a decade now, and they're a great way to get a good deal and thumb your nose at the ATF and their NICS nonsense (as a lawful person and in a lawful manner), but you do have to approach everything with skepticism until you're actually standing face to face.
Link Posted: 5/18/2020 4:58:15 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By dade_shooter:
I was emailing back and forth with­ him for the 104UR, he stated he was in the k­eys, sent pictures and asked for payment. I am 45 minutes away from the keys and asked­ to meet in person. He kept avoiding to meet personally and offe­ring to ship, that set off a red flag. I told him the only way I would pay is if he­ would go to an FFL and have them sign it int­o their books and ship it to my ffl. Once the shipping FFL confirmed the gun was ­in their possession I would send payment, als­o asked for a picture of the rifle with a han­dwritten note with his name and the days date­ as well as his phone number. He sent me a google VOIP number and I cut of­f comms, too many red flags. 
View Quote

I sent you a PM.

I just spoke with the OP.

I was trying to buy a 104, SA85 and another AK (Don't remember the type) from someone (A different user name).  Who was also down in the keys and their post was one day from the date of the OP's transaction.

Trying to see if they are the same person.   I have a phone number I was texting back and fourth on.  Wondering if it is the same guy.

This guy still has stuff currently on FGT, so want to find out asap.  But also don't want to falsely accuse someone if it is a coincidence.
Link Posted: 5/18/2020 6:46:02 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/18/2020 6:49:13 PM EDT by gabeowp]
pitano5347 is also a user name on Texas gun trader also selling a arsenal.

I've used FGT for years but its gotten so bad I didn't even renew my 106F listing. Too many tire kickers and felons.
Link Posted: 5/18/2020 9:41:23 PM EDT
Thanks for the advise guys. I was emailing him about the SLR104UR he had posted. I'm waiting to see if it's the same guy that contacted the other two people that posted here so I can include his phone number in the police report.

It seems like this guy is a seasoned thief with multiple listings on multiple platforms.

Sadly in this day and age he'll likely see no consequences which is a shame.

Will definitely try the demand letter after the police report.
Link Posted: 5/19/2020 7:20:56 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By CZRider:
Realistically, I doubt the gun eve­r existed and I wonder if this guy is necessa­rily even in the US. The problem with free and open classified si­tes like FGT coupled with online money transf­er services is that the guy on the other end ­could be in Azerbaijan for all you really kno­w. Apparently Zelle doesn't offer any kind of f­raud protection so I suspect you're probably ­out of luck. I've been buying and selling on FGT and Arms­list for almost a decade now, and they're a g­reat way to get a good deal and thumb your no­se at the ATF and their NICS nonsense (as a l­awful person and in a lawful manner), but you­ do have to approach everything with skeptici­sm until you're actually standing face to fac­e.
View Quote


My post was assuming he is in the US and not a seasoned scammer.

If he isn’t either, then you’re out the cash and he will just laugh at your police report.
Link Posted: 5/19/2020 10:57:28 AM EDT
If you got a detective interested that had jurisdiction they could maybe bang out some subpoenas for phones and IPs and if he isnt super good maybe see where is.
Link Posted: 5/19/2020 1:41:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/19/2020 1:58:51 PM EDT by StoneTemple]
When i read your title i knew exactly what it was gonna say.  

This guy has been listing mostly high end AK stuff.  Arsenal stuff.  Rare chinese stuff.  About a month ago i contacted him as i was interested in a Bwest/Norinco Bakelite furniture AK.  

When i asked where and what time could we meet he replied he was in the Keys and would ship to my local FFL.   I declined of course replying I was only interested in FTF sales for that amount of money.  

I know he has posted lots of other ads since then.  I’ve seen them.  He is using different user names for each ad.  I noticed all user names spell nothing and end in numbers.  He also never list a location in the ad.  

Sorry to hear of your misfortune.  I figured he’d get someone sooner or later.

He still has multiple listings on FGT.  I noticed all ads are priced at either $1200 or $1400 and also all ads seem to only have 1 photo of the rifle for sale.  

If you search Arsenal on FGT right now all those listings with no location, $1200 or $1400 price, one photo of rifle for sale and user names that make no sense and spell nothing are all his.  Theres no less than 3 on there now at this very moment.
Link Posted: 5/19/2020 3:05:53 PM EDT
I posted a wtb 104 to see if I get someone to reach out. I'm sure he won't agree for a ftf  but worth a try.
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