User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
|
Posted: 10/31/2019 8:20:10 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That’s exactly it. Sourcing the receiver may be difficult. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: I thought virgin receiver bought, transferred or made as "other", not rifle, not pistol, and it meets the letter of the law? |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/31/2019 9:18:19 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Huh? You can buy virgin stripped AR lowers in any gun store in NY. Every shop around, even downstate, has them on the shelves. I can certainly appreciate the caution associated with buying built from a shop to add a tiny layer of additional peace of mind, but other than that, the letter of the law is the letter of the law. The funny part to me is how we sit here debating the nuance and the finest details, meanwhile probably 95% of the non-LEO black rifle owners aren't even aware there is such a thing as unSAFE. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/31/2019 9:32:55 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Why buy from a gun store? Build your own! All it takes is adding a brace and vfg. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/31/2019 9:53:10 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Because the initial road to seizure and expensive legal defense is probably going to be a LEO who doesn’t know the nuances of the law, and may well just let a higher up and prosecutor handle it. “It’s legal and I bought it at a gun shop” carries more weight than “I assembled it myself” Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: Why buy from a gun store? Build your own! All it takes is adding a brace and vfg. If questioned, I wouldn't feel I was lying saying I bought it at a gun store. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/31/2019 10:20:11 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Huh? You can buy virgin stripped AR lowers in any gun store in NY. But as stated earlier, buying it from a store and laminating the receipt is the ticket, at least the best way to have some credibility. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/31/2019 12:02:51 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I thought you had to have a receiver designated as an “other”. Idk, these rules and laws are all fucked up. But as stated earlier, buying it from a store and laminating the receipt is the ticket, at least the best way to have some credibility. then you are free to make it into what ever you choose. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/31/2019 12:31:27 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If you buy a bare receiver (lower) it is recorded on the 4473 as an "other", not as a rifle or a pistol... then you are free to make it into what ever you choose. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: I thought you had to have a receiver designated as an "other". Idk, these rules and laws are all fucked up. But as stated earlier, buying it from a store and laminating the receipt is the ticket, at least the best way to have some credibility. then you are free to make it into what ever you choose. 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/31/2019 2:25:49 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I thought you had to have a receiver designated as an “other”. Idk, these rules and laws are all fucked up. But as stated earlier, buying it from a store and laminating the receipt is the ticket, at least the best way to have some credibility. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: Huh? You can buy virgin stripped AR lowers in any gun store in NY. But as stated earlier, buying it from a store and laminating the receipt is the ticket, at least the best way to have some credibility. So a receipt means nothing at all. Or it carries the same weight as a receipt with a stripped lower listed. Same thing. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/31/2019 4:33:03 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I get what you are saying... but the receipt won't have any info telling the configuration when sold. It'll just say "other" just like a stripped lower. And in the cops eyes you could have modified it after purchase no matter how it was sold. So a receipt means nothing at all. Or it carries the same weight as a receipt with a stripped lower listed. Same thing. 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/31/2019 4:37:11 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The receipt will hold some weight. The FFL sold it to you in that configuration. Besides the POF says other/firearm on the receiver. The receipt is just a piece of the puzzle. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/21574/EF167D60-5CE9-4F2E-9F6F-8C10955D14F8-1088297.jpg ARs are not factory rifles anymore...what you buy at the FFL is likely made by them. Who knows if they even have a manufacturing license? Or if they built it from a true virgin lower/other? I'd build it yourself to be sure. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/31/2019 5:10:04 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There's no proof it was sold to you in that configuration. Maybe the ffls word? ARs are not factory rifles anymore...what you buy at the FFL is likely made by them. Who knows if they even have a manufacturing license? Or if they built it from a true virgin lower/other? I'd build it yourself to be sure. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/31/2019 5:37:12 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Not with a factory “other/firearm”. Serial number look up, FFL’s word & receipt will confirm it left the factory in the configuration you bought it in. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/31/2019 7:24:44 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What manufacturer is selling a complete other like we are discussing? I know there are some FFL's selling completes, I just assumed they were assembled by the FFL. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Not with a factory “other/firearm”. Serial number look up, FFL’s word & receipt will confirm it left the factory in the configuration you bought it in. But nothing is "leaving the factory" in a firing "other" configuration. The FFL assembles the virgin lower into an other. Any serial number look up, whether you buy it complete from a store, or build yourself, will simply say it left the factory as an other. Nothing else. So whether the FFL assembles it, or you assemble it from a stripped lower you passed a background check for, the paper trail is the same, as it will simply denote that it was sold as an "other" - not what "parts" it was sold with. I do take comfort FFLs are selling them...but there is Zero reason to buy one from them instead of making your own. They are all "others" as long as it was built from a virgin lower that was never a rifle or pistol. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/31/2019 8:57:52 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Well I guess the FFL is the manufacturer then. But nothing is "leaving the factory" in a firing "other" configuration. The FFL assembles the virgin lower into an other. Any serial number look up, whether you buy it complete from a store, or build yourself, will simply say it left the factory as an other. Nothing else. So whether the FFL assembles it, or you assemble it from a stripped lower you passed a background check for, the paper trail is the same, as it will simply denote that it was sold as an "other" - not what "parts" it was sold with. I do take comfort FFLs are selling them...but there is Zero reason to buy one from them instead of making your own. They are all "others" as long as it was built from a virgin lower that was never a rifle or pistol. They keep track of how the rifles left their factory. The POF model is called the Constable. That means it left as a complete other in the designated Constable configuration. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/31/2019 9:26:18 PM EDT
[#15]
Understood.
It would be very interesting though, if there was a factory manufactured brand name, along the lines of the shockwave, available in NY shops. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/31/2019 9:43:57 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: POF is making complete others. There are two or three other companies making them also. Don’r remember the names at the moment. Funny thing is there is another company making a smooth bore AR and it’s not considered a rifle because it does not have rifling. They keep track of how the rifles left their factory. The POF model is called the Constable. That means it left as a complete other in the designated Constable configuration. But both methods are legal. Whether you build your own or buy at a store. I don't think a receipt is going to prevent you from getting arrested either way...so might as well spend $600 less for a gun that's just as good, if not better! But again I do take comfort in the fact that many ffls are selling these! We agree there! |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/20/2019 10:00:01 AM EDT
[#17]
"Is it a "pistol"? - No, because it has a VFG, and therefore is designed to be held with more than one hand."
Does anyone know where the VFG requirement is cited? Obviously the Shockwave doesn't have a VFG. Wouldn't an angled foregrip also imply being designed to be held with more than one hand? I suspect there's an ATF letter floating around that I haven't run across. |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/20/2019 3:03:12 PM EDT
[#18]
Would the straps on the shockwave, tac 13 & tac 14 act as the VFG?
|
|
|
|
Posted: 12/20/2019 4:18:53 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Would the straps on the shockwave, tac 13 & tac 14 act as the VFG? |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/20/2019 5:47:52 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Would the straps on the shockwave, tac 13 & tac 14 act as the VFG? |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/21/2019 3:26:37 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I assume the straps act as the forward grip for a Shockwave, but why the necessity for a vertical foregrip for a centerfire "other"? |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/30/2019 7:32:32 AM EDT
[#22]
Would this apply to visitors to New York as well? Hope this is the case. Sick of only bringing only a pump action shotgun when I visit. I looked inside of a gun shop in Mineola wondering how the hell they had what looked like full featured ARs on the wall. Maybe this was why.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 12/30/2019 7:56:53 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Would this apply to visitors to New York as well? Hope this is the case. Sick of only bringing only a pump action shotgun when I visit. I looked inside of a gun shop in Mineola wondering how the hell they had what looked like full featured ARs on the wall. Maybe this was why. |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/30/2019 10:29:51 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Would this apply to visitors to New York as well? Hope this is the case. Sick of only bringing only a pump action shotgun when I visit. I looked inside of a gun shop in Mineola wondering how the hell they had what looked like full featured ARs on the wall. Maybe this was why. |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/2/2020 9:41:36 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I, of course, wish the Safe Act didn't exist, and that NY was a free state. But since it's not, it would at least be nice to know exactly what is legal and what is not. But I suppose the lack of clarity is by design. |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/2/2020 11:04:43 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Cuts both ways. Everyone sees this as a negative, I see it as a positive. Yes it does cut both ways but it at least gives you a defense until they pass new laws to make more things illegal. |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/2/2020 9:56:53 PM EDT
[#27]
Isnt the VFG and the arm brace contradictory, one makes it deigned to be fired with one hand and the other, two hands?
|
|
|
|
Posted: 3/2/2020 10:22:41 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Isnt the VFG and the arm brace contradictory, one makes it deigned to be fired with one hand and the other, two hands? Either way the brace is simply not a stock...whether you use it as an arm brace or not. The VFG implies it is designed to be able to be gripped with the 2nd hand. Doesn't mean you have to grip it with the 2nd hand. The mere presence of it installed means it is designed to be held with 2 hands. Doesn't mean you have to. |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/8/2020 11:57:36 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
A buddy told me about these "firearms", which are sold in a big gun store in Westchester. So yes, they are sold in stores. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/8/2020 11:27:44 PM EDT
[#30]
Had some questions for someone a bit more knowledgeable than me about these "other" builds. Was having a hard time finding the information using the search function.
Can we build these around non-pistol receiver extensions (like the one that comes with the SBA3/4) and maintain the "other" classification? Is the 13.5" LOP still "a thing"? Does the lower receiver need to be machine stamped/marked in any way (e.g. Troy A4 Other)? I'm used to doing builds with some sort of fixed magazine arrangement - can I actually have a normal magazine release like the rest of America? |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/9/2020 2:28:33 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Had some questions for someone a bit more knowledgeable than me about these "other" builds. Was having a hard time finding the information using the search function. Can we build these around non-pistol receiver extensions (like the one that comes with the SBA3/4) and maintain the "other" classification? Is the 13.5" LOP still "a thing"? Does the lower receiver need to be machine stamped/marked in any way (e.g. Troy A4 Other)? I'm used to doing builds with some sort of fixed magazine arrangement - can I actually have a normal magazine release like the rest of America? I believe an sba3 kit is still considered an other on the 4473 right? Or at least it is not a rifle, since it doesn't have a stock...so it should still be able to be converted to a NY "other" Yes I believe the LOP is still a thing but I just built 16 inch guns so I didn't pay attention to that. The lower doesn't need to be marked in any special way. And yes these others are totally unregulated. Can have all the evil features. Just needs a brace and a VFG and has to have an oal of 26" or more. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/14/2020 11:06:19 PM EDT
[#32]
This thread's almost a year old?
 Time flies. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/27/2020 2:40:39 PM EDT
[#33]
I have some free time and four stripped lowers. Anymore thoughts on the legality of a braceless, >26" other with VFG? Something like pics 6-12 in this article
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/27/2020 10:32:05 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I have some free time and four stripped lowers. Anymore thoughts on the legality of a braceless, >26" other with VFG? Something like pics 6-12 in this article It's still a gray area. But going that route is probably the least gray. I know that doesn't help any. 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/27/2020 10:51:11 PM EDT
[#35]
Thanks NY_Shooter. I agree it's grey. I'm also open to just a foam covered buffer tube if someone like BushBoar or Natty_Bumppo thinks it a better (aka safer!) idea than the Thorsden cheek rest in the pics.
|
|
|
Win a FREE Membership!
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.
