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Posted: 10/9/2021 7:55:59 PM EDT
I was thinking of taking a class from these guys, but I know absolutely nothing about them.  

https://patriottraining.info/

A friend sent their website and asked me to check them out.  By looking at their videos, it is hard to tell
what skill level these guys are at of what they teach.  I am a professional instructor, and try to take a class
or two a year to stay sharp for the classes I teach, but I don't know if these guys will fit the bill.  

I'd like to talk to someone who has been there to ask a few questions.  

Thanks,

Scott
Link Posted: 10/10/2021 12:06:49 PM EDT
[#1]
I know nothing beyond just reading their website, but I'd be willing to support them by attending a class.   I'd have my expectations set VERY low.  Even if the guy is a rock star, you're probably only going to go as fast as the rest of the class, which i'd wager is quite slow.

judging from the pictures, standing at what looked to be 5-7 yards, one person in a line of 8 is squared up on the gun, while everyone else is very bladed.  prone photos are similar.  no one in the sitting photo has a decent position, and 1 person in the kneeling photo might have bone support.    this is somewhat surprising since he lists appleseed expert rifleman in his qualifications.  

when the class description lists "team movements, Small Unit Tactics, leadership, communication, CQB, raids, ambushes, react to contact drills" and the rest of the class are obviously new shooters, I'd be pretty hesitant to do non-square range stuff for safety reasons

Link Posted: 10/10/2021 9:13:14 PM EDT
[#2]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I know nothing beyond just reading their website, but I'd be willing to support them by attending a class.   I'd have my expectations set VERY low.  Even if the guy is a rock star, you're probably only going to go as fast as the rest of the class, which i'd wager is quite slow.

judging from the pictures, standing at what looked to be 5-7 yards, one person in a line of 8 is squared up on the gun, while everyone else is very bladed.  prone photos are similar.  no one in the sitting photo has a decent position, and 1 person in the kneeling photo might have bone support.    this is somewhat surprising since he lists appleseed expert rifleman in his qualifications.  

when the class description lists "team movements, Small Unit Tactics, leadership, communication, CQB, raids, ambushes, react to contact drills" and the rest of the class are obviously new shooters, I'd be pretty hesitant to do non-square range stuff for safety reasons

View Quote


I noticed the same things as you, also that there was no after shooting scanning and the weapons handling appeared to be quite poor.  
Although this can be attributed to the fact that most of what he does in "entry level" related, I would expect to see some shooters doing
things correctly under the guidance of the instructor.  

I appears that I need to get more research done before I commit to a class.
Link Posted: 10/11/2021 11:14:35 AM EDT
[#3]
As a retired infantry officer who commanded a training regiment, i would NEVER train any of that shit on the civilian side unless I personally knew and was quite friendly with the instructor.  This isn't arrogance or snobbery.

1.  Very dangerous training being done with, by definition, untrained people.
2.  Half the class will be FEDS.  To include the instructors.  And they ain't there to learn.
3.  Those who are really good at that stuff aren't going to train it for the above reasons.  They instructors probably don't know what they are doing or they are setting people up.

Can I guarantee what I typed was true?  No.
But the odds are in my favor.

FWIW
Link Posted: 10/11/2021 6:11:14 PM EDT
[#4]
McMinnville is where I live. I contacted Clay Howell about attending their enhanced carry class, but because I have small arms training on my DD214, I don't need the range part of the training.  After explaining this to him, he pushed me off onto another instructor and stopped communicating with me.  He's pretty arrogant and stand off-ish and I wouldn't take training from him based on that.

My 0.02.
Link Posted: 10/11/2021 7:23:25 PM EDT
[#5]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
McMinnville is where I live. I contacted Clay Howell about attending their enhanced carry class, but because I have small arms training on my DD214, I don't need the range part of the training.  After explaining this to him, he pushed me off onto another instructor and stopped communicating with me.  He's pretty arrogant and stand off-ish and I wouldn't take training from him based on that.

My 0.02.
View Quote


That is good info to have.  Thanks.  

Based on his resume' he has posted on his website, I don't know why he would be.  
My training and instructor resume' is a bit more extensive than his, or at least as much so.
and I don't act that way toward my students.  

Link Posted: 10/11/2021 10:13:17 PM EDT
[#6]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
As a retired infantry officer who commanded a training regiment, i would NEVER train any of that shit on the civilian side unless I personally knew and was quite friendly with the instructor.  This isn't arrogance or snobbery.

1.  Very dangerous training being done with, by definition, untrained people.
2.  Half the class will be FEDS.  To include the instructors.  And they ain't there to learn.
3.  Those who are really good at that stuff aren't going to train it for the above reasons.  They instructors probably don't know what they are doing or they are setting people up.

Can I guarantee what I typed was true?  No.
But the odds are in my favor.

FWIW
View Quote


This. Anyone taking money to teach open enrollment small unit tactics classes right now is highly suspect. Download an old 7-8 (Infantry Platoon and Squad) manual, a Ranger Handbook, and start doing walk-throughs with the guys who live around you or who you might be walking with in a sticky situation.
Link Posted: 10/12/2021 9:20:43 PM EDT
[#7]
Where do you teach in Tennessee and how would does classes cost
Link Posted: 10/13/2021 3:41:20 PM EDT
[#8]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


That is good info to have.  Thanks.  

Based on his resume' he has posted on his website, I don't know why he would be.  
My training and instructor resume' is a bit more extensive than his, or at least as much so.
and I don't act that way toward my students.  

View Quote



I will say this...I had a bit of an odd situation with my enhanced permit.  rather not go into it here, but it probably sounded "sketchy" to him, despite being a perfectly valid explanation.  I don't blame him for pushing me off, it's the way he did it that irked me.

And again, this is just a first impression based on a VERY brief encounter.  He may be a top notch instructor, I have no idea.  I've passed the range they operate at a few times and it seems nice.
Link Posted: 10/13/2021 7:11:15 PM EDT
[#9]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Where do you teach in Tennessee and how would does classes cost
View Quote


I have my own range in the Jefferson City area.  I try to tailor a class for the student's needs, but my basic stuff is
pretty straightforward.  I usually charge around $150 for a 1 day class, and $200 if you do a 2 day.  

I do rifle, pistol and shotgun.   I'm also a TN armed guard and TN HCP instructor.  Although handgun carry permits
are not very popular right no due to the changes in the law.  

I also do a few other classes that I can go over if you are interested.  

Regards,

Scott
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