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Posted: 8/12/2021 12:26:28 PM EDT
I know this sort of question has been asked a thousand times.  It comes up, I start searching, and find threads that go all over the place, usually with a bunch of bickering and name-calling.  I'm left with no definitive answer.

So, the question... online, or pay much more for a "real" one?  I see options for "real" trusts that are generated in minutes... which means they're boilerplate.  Probably the same boilerplate I could get for much less money.  Then there's all of the discussions about are the online ones valid, valid in my state, etc.

I have no problem with paying to talk to an attorney, especially as I have some circumstances that would be outside of a boilerplate form.  But the idea of paying $1000 or more for something that lots of others are getting for $59.95 doesn't sit well.  Typically, if one pays an attorney, does that include ongoing consultation?

Then, next question, I commonly see different "packages".  The "bronze" is basic, the "silver" lets you add some trustees and stuff, the gold allows unlimited added trustees... but WTF?  When just looking up info about trusts, it's easy to amend your trust any time, and you don't need an attorney.  So, are there different trusts for NFA firearms?

It looks like everyone who gets a trust is a sucker.  Either they paid way too much, or they bought garbage that's going to land them in jail.
Link Posted: 8/12/2021 9:46:15 PM EDT
Tag.  I just used the one through Silencer Shop.  

It'll probably land me in jail once the over lords decide to round up all the gun nuts.  Oh well.
Link Posted: 8/12/2021 10:00:27 PM EDT
It depends on what you want the trust to do.  If it's just for Form 1/4 NFA stuff, a $130 trust from the Silencer Shop is all you need.  I'd only get a lawyer involved (if you like burning money) if the trust becomes very, very complicated...more than 1 Trustee(s), or more than 1 benefactor(s).  97% of what a lawyer will do for you is just boiler plate wording.  

My trust is incredibly simple.  Basically I, the trustee, own the property listed in Schedule A, and it will all go to person 1 (beneficiary).  If person 1 is dead, it goes to person 2, etc.  I used a generic DIY trust software, just fill-in-the-blank stuff, but had a lawyer friend give it a once over...he changed one sentence.   I've used it with zero issues on more than 2 dozen NFA items.

How is a trust going to land you in jail?  It's just a list of property, owned by a person(s), with a list of people who the property will go to once the trustee(s) die.  It's a simple legal instrument that many people overthink when it comes to NFA items.  

Back in the day, before all the 41F/P new rules, a Trust was a simple way to bypass a lot of the NFA regulations, and made the process much faster/easier.  Plus, on any Form 1 item, you have to engrave your name and city/state on the firearm...and :JOHN JACOB JINGLEHEIMER-SCHMIDT, FLAGSTAFF AZ" takes up a lot of room on a gun, and looks horrible.  So, many people have simple trust names, like "JJJS Trust, Flagstaff AZ" which is easily hidden on a gun.
Link Posted: 8/13/2021 10:33:31 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By AT-ST83:

It depends on what you want the trust to do.  If it's just for Form 1/4 NFA stuff, a $130 trust from the Silencer Shop is all you need.  I'd only get a lawyer involved (if you like burning money) if the trust becomes very, very complicated...more than 1 Trustee(s), or more than 1 benefactor(s).  97% of what a lawyer will do for you is just boiler plate wording.
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Originally Posted By AT-ST83:

It depends on what you want the trust to do.  If it's just for Form 1/4 NFA stuff, a $130 trust from the Silencer Shop is all you need.  I'd only get a lawyer involved (if you like burning money) if the trust becomes very, very complicated...more than 1 Trustee(s), or more than 1 benefactor(s).  97% of what a lawyer will do for you is just boiler plate wording.


For me, part of the value of a trust would be multiple trustees.  I'm just not clear on why that would require an attorney or lots more $$$

How is a trust going to land you in jail?  It's just a list of property, owned by a person(s), with a list of people who the property will go to once the trustee(s) die.  It's a simple legal instrument that many people overthink when it comes to NFA items.


Dunno!  But it comes up most of the time.  There's always someone...

I think a bigger concern is when you pass, finding out that the trust is somehow invalid, and now whomever is holding your NFA items is a felon and all of those things are going to BATFE.
Link Posted: 8/14/2021 1:18:32 AM EDT
I used https://nfalawyers.com/ for mine, but it was myself and my wife, and I got it on sale for $40 or something.
Link Posted: 9/4/2021 1:46:48 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By caduckgunner:
I used https://nfalawyers.com/ for mine, but it was myself and my wife, and I got it on sale for $40 or something.
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recommend this one... also helped out for free on the 41f change bs. and will always give free help advice when you are their customer
Link Posted: 9/4/2021 5:31:53 AM EDT
You're over thinking this.  

There are far fewer reasons to use a trust than there used to be.  Before ATF required the Schedule A to be sent in for every stamp, and before 'responsible persons' had to do background investigations, it was easy.  My first trust was twenty something pages.  My last one was one page. When they changed the rules, I started doing a new trust for every item.  I would literally copy an old trust, change the name, print out a new copy and have it notarized.

Lately, it's easier for me to do individual.

If you die, everything will transfer tax free to your heirs anyway... make a will so they know how to divide your stuff up.
Link Posted: 9/4/2021 9:50:09 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/4/2021 9:52:31 AM EDT by TacticoolNinjaName]
You send the trust to the ATF when you are submitting the Form 1/4.  (which has already been written by a lawyer even if a copy paste job, and signed by a notary) So there should be zero reason to think it’s invalid down the road as the ATF issued the stamp to the trust.
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