Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
BCM
User Panel

Site Notices
Posted: 9/16/2020 7:08:24 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Ben]
Link Posted: 9/20/2020 8:04:45 AM EDT
[#1]
@Ben


Questions-

1) Will bipods be allowed?
2) Will individual BB units be permitted to administer this qual assuming standard APC/BB witnessing is employed?
2) Can rifle/pistol/shotgun stages be shot at different times/locations?
3) Will this qual be credited toward any ratings?

Thanks
Link Posted: 9/20/2020 8:21:06 AM EDT
[#2]
Link Posted: 9/20/2020 8:27:40 AM EDT
[#3]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Ben:




2a.
View Quote



LOL, nice catch. Thanks for the quick response. We'll get on this and will be looking forward to the task book.
Link Posted: 9/20/2020 2:41:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: bigstick61] [#4]
Are slings permitted for positions where the elbow of the supporting arm is resting on something solid (as in prone and kneeling)?

ETA: I saw for prone that it says "unsupported", so I'm assuming not.
Link Posted: 9/20/2020 4:56:22 PM EDT
[#5]
Link Posted: 9/20/2020 7:10:14 PM EDT
[#6]
Maybe I missed it...but I can’t find anything on it. Is there an optics magnification limit?

If there is, can I still shoot with an LPVO set to the approved magnification?
Link Posted: 9/20/2020 7:17:31 PM EDT
[#7]
Link Posted: 2/15/2021 2:20:43 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Lomshek] [#8]
On pistol qualification what's your desired hand position and how rigorous are you interested in enforcing specifics of those positions?

USPSA shooting which is what I'm most familiar with has two common positions.  Wrists below belt (aka hands relaxed at sides) and wrists above shoulders (aka hands up).

Hands at sides



More specifically wrists below belt.



Wrists above shoulders aka Surrender position
Attachment Attached File



Wrists below shoulders aka "I'm pretending to have my hands up but seeing if anyone calls me on it" is a common "cheat"
Attachment Attached File



I couldn't find a photo example but the other common "cheat" position is the "hunched forward ready to strike like a ninja" with the gun hand hovering over or near the pistol grip.

Any guidance you can offer on where to draw the line would be appreciated.
Link Posted: 2/15/2021 11:10:49 AM EDT
[#9]
Link Posted: 2/15/2021 1:35:48 PM EDT
[#10]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Ben:


We do not have a requirement for the location of your hands except that they must not be on the firearm. The unwritten intent is to begin from a casual position hands at your waist/sides, but it is not a hand requirement.
View Quote


Thanks.
Link Posted: 2/23/2021 1:13:01 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Lomshek] [#11]
I fired the pistol and rifle course of fire with my son and a friend to get a feel for the time involved before I run a group through the pistol qual in a few weeks.

I used my carry pistol (M&P Shield 9mm) for the pistol qual and my 16" DD with a 1-4X burris for the rifle.

They don't count for official score but I used USPSA metric (silhouette) targets since that's what I had on hand.  
The "C" zone is the same width as a B27 8 ring (300 mm wide) and just 20mm taller than a B27 8 ring so it gives a pretty accurate score equivalent.

This was fired cold (no warmup) and my first rounds fired in about 2 months.  I'm a USPSA shooter so fired as quickly as I could acquire a decent
(mostly decent anyway ) sight picture.  That translated into using about 50% of the time or a little less.  
If I could beat slow down into my head the target would be a little prettier.  

The 25 yard hits were just outside of the A zone.  I got sloppy on the 15 yard shots and am pretty sure that's where my miss happened.

Attachment Attached File


Here's the pistol hits by zone and score.  A and C zones are 5 points and D zone or head shots are 4 points.

20 A, 15 C, 4 D, 1 M
A=100
C=75
D=16
Total - 191

If you get picky and move anything in the outer 50% of the C zone from a 5 point hit to a 4 point hit here's the reduced score.

20 A, 9 C, 10 D, 1 M
A=100
C=45
D=40
Total - 185

Here's my son on the 50 yard part of the rifle course of fire.

Attachment Attached File


Rifle was about the same speed (half or so of the allotted time) with a few more misses which I'm pretty sure happened on the 100 yard kneeling portion.  
Definitely shot faster than I should have there.  Stage 2 (5 rounds kneeling, reload, 5 rounds prone) took about 25 seconds instead of the allowed 65 seconds.

Here's the target.  Gotta work on letting the rifle dip as I fire the round or fix my timing on the trigger or just quit anticipating recoil and driving the rifle down prematurely.  Gonna do some High Power this year so maybe the shame of low scores will force me to improve.

Attachment Attached File


This is the rifle score.

24 A, 20 C, 12 D, 4M
A=120
C=100
D=48
Total - 268

Here's what the score was if you move everything in the outer half of the C zone to the D zone.

24 A, 13 C, 19 D, 4M
A=120
C=65
D=76
Total - 261

Link Posted: 3/28/2021 9:01:47 PM EDT
[Last Edit: cobullseye] [#12]
I did a quick practice of the shotgun and pistol qualification yesterday.  Did not follow the directions perfectly, but I don't think it would have changed the score materially. It was really fun.

Shotgun, did with 870, using clay targets on berm, no pictures, is straight forward.  Held the last round in pocket, and grasped it from there for the last shot.

Pistol

Note:
- I did not have two magazines, just took the mag out of the pistol put it in my pocket, then grabbed it again and reinserted.
- Had alibi, not sure how to handle, just started over
- used laser range finder for distances
- did not really time, was confident that I did make times.  When doing qualifications, will start with a whistle and end with a whistle. Any shots after the   whistle will be scored as a zero.
- 9mm Browning Hi Power, stock
- holster on belt, retention strap, out of the way.
- Mix of reloads and factory ammo
- all one handed, right handed

I did not have a B-27 with me, so I used what I had.  Second picture is the target laid over the B-27.  Only one shot, low left, would have been scored a 4.

B-27 for reference.


B-27 with the target I had over laid. Only one shot, low left, would have been scored a 4.


Pistol Stage 1, 2 at 25 yrds


Pistol Stage 2, 6 at 15 yrds, tape on previous holes


Pistol Stage 3, 6+6 at 7 yrds, all 12 together , tape on previous holes


Pistol Stage 4, skipped it, will be the same as #7, did all shooting one handed.


Pistol Stage 5, 2+2+2 at 3 yrds, all 6 together, tape on previous holes



Pistol Stage 6, 7 at 3 yrds, one handed, tape on previous holes


In conclusion it is a straight forward qualification.


Link Posted: 7/29/2021 4:50:14 PM EDT
[#13]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By bigstick61:
Are slings permitted for positions where the elbow of the supporting arm is resting on something solid (as in prone and kneeling)?

ETA: I saw for prone that it says "unsupported", so I'm assuming not.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By bigstick61:
Are slings permitted for positions where the elbow of the supporting arm is resting on something solid (as in prone and kneeling)?

ETA: I saw for prone that it says "unsupported", so I'm assuming not.


Originally Posted By Ben:
I'll figure out a way to clarify, technically resting your magazine on the deck is ok, but a bipod is not.

Using a sling at 100y shouldn't be necessary for a target this size, but as it is an integral part of your weapon (all rifles should have slings) I can't see that being an issue. I'll check with the folks that developed the qual.


Rifle Stage     # Rnds      Time      Distance      Description
1                      15        75 sec       100y         Start standing.  On whistle immediately go prone and engage target with 15 rounds from the prone unsupported. Ensure you count your rounds.

2                      10        65 sec       100y         Start standing. On whistle take a kneeling position and fire 5 rounds. Drop to prone, combat reload, and fire 5 more rounds.

3                      10        35 sec        50y          Start standing. On whistle drop to kneeling and fire 10 rounds.

4                      10        30 sec        25y          On whistle fire 5 rounds standing, drop to kneeling, combat reload and fire 5 rounds.

5                      10        20 sec        25y          Start in the low ready. On whistle engage target with 10 rounds.

6                       5          8 sec         15y         Start in low ready. On whistle engage target with 5 rounds. Make your weapon condition 4.


@Ben

Sorry to bug you but I was asked a question about sling use for our upcoming qual shoot.

Is a person permitted to sling up before the start signal like with a loop sling or hasty sling if they so desire?  My interpretation of low ready is rifle shouldered or nearly so with the muzzle angled significantly down & safety on like in the photo below but not slung up or otherwise "prepped".

For additional clarification of what low ready is any help would be appreciated...

My interpretation of the low ready position.

Person somewhat relaxed and rifle pointed downward at 45 degrees or more.


My interpretation of a prepped position that does not meet the definition of low ready.

Link Posted: 7/29/2021 6:26:31 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Ben] [#14]
Link Posted: 7/29/2021 7:14:34 PM EDT
[#15]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Ben:


Your interpretation of the position is correct. And they shouldn't be in a loop sling at the start.
View Quote


Thanks!
Link Posted: 9/2/2021 7:00:51 PM EDT
[#16]
@Ben Can sitting be substituted for kneeling in the rifle qual?
Link Posted: 9/3/2021 7:44:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Apec] [#17]
Is there any upcoming qualification, in VA or elsewhere? We coming up around the 1 year mark since we held the last.
Link Posted: 11/21/2021 3:04:02 PM EDT
[#18]
Took a practice run at the pistol qualification today. Definitely gonna need to tape holes after each round. They get hard to count at the end. No shot timer and honestly I don't have a holster for the 1911, but I'm pretty confident I will qualify. I counted 51 of 52 holes. Not sure if I missed a hole or missed the target but oh well.

Attachment Attached File
Link Posted: 11/21/2021 3:20:21 PM EDT
[#19]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By chargerkid5:
I counted 51 of 52 holes. Not sure if I missed a hole or missed the target but oh well.

https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/166565/20211121_110913_jpg-2175791.JPG
View Quote


Pistol qual is 40 rounds and you really do need a shot timer, especially on some of the really fast stages. That said, by the looks of that target I'd say you're correct in your assumption that you can pass it.



Lacking a holster, how did you begin the stages?  
Link Posted: 11/21/2021 3:28:39 PM EDT
[Last Edit: chargerkid5] [#20]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Redbirdxx:


Pistol qual is 40 rounds and you really do need a shot timer, especially on some of the really fast stages. That said, by the looks of that target I'd say you're correct in your assumption that you can pass it.



Lacking a holster, how did you begin the stages?  
View Quote

Round 5 is done 3 times. Or at least that's how I read it. So that takes it from 40 to 52.

I started with pistol in hand at my side from a relaxed position. I know the whole thing doesn't count. I'm just getting rounds down range in a drill type format.

Edit: oh shit I read round 5 wrong. I cranked 6 shots each time. Reading is fundamental.
Link Posted: 11/21/2021 3:34:18 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Redbirdxx] [#21]
Stage five is 2 shots x 3 for a total of six shots. Draw and fire two shots in two seconds, repeated three times.



And I'm not trying to bust your balls, good on you for being out there shooting.



Edit, just read your edit. If you were getting six shots off in two seconds, I want you on my team.
Link Posted: 11/21/2021 3:44:59 PM EDT
[#22]
Like I say, no shot timer. Just squeezing as fast as I could. So probably wasn't getting all 6 off in time. I'm no Jerry Miculek.
Link Posted: 11/22/2021 9:49:31 PM EDT
[#23]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By chargerkid5:
Like I say, no shot timer. Just squeezing as fast as I could. So probably wasn't getting all 6 off in time. I'm no Jerry Miculek.
View Quote

I have a shot timer
Link Posted: 11/22/2021 10:40:03 PM EDT
[#24]
Close Join Our Mail List to Stay Up To Date! Win a FREE Membership!

Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!

You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.


By signing up you agree to our User Agreement. *Must have a registered ARFCOM account to win.
Top Top