A little birdie told me a story

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - A little birdie told me a story

Posted: 1/29/2018 11:13:44 AM EDT

A little birdie told me a story about a guy who drove through one of Westchester towns. Got pulled over for tinted windows. The cop looked up that he has a PP. Asked about his pistol. The guy said it was in a glove box. Opened the glove box. Next to the pistol he had two 30-rd mags for a Mini-14. The cop subsequently searched the car, found an AR-15 built on an 80% lower with a pistol grip, collapsible stock, and a bayonet lug. The guy eventually plead to a possession 4 (misdemeanor), cost him $14,000 for lawyers. And even regained his PP. Took a while though.

Posted: 1/29/2018 11:23:45 AM EDT

[#1]

$14,000.00? Not too bad but if it were me, I would lose my job so that $14k would be multiplied many time over multiplied by years forward.

Bill

Posted: 1/29/2018 2:32:15 PM EDT

[#2]

Wonder if they were preban (pre 94) mags or not?

If I recall, preban mags are only a misdemeanor...whereas post ban is a violent felony, worse than raping a child.

Also, those mags are just 10 round .458 SOCOM mags or 10 round .50 Beowolf mags or 8 round 6.8 SPC mags, right?

If you don't agree, then all those .40 cal glock mags are illegal since they hold 12-13 rounds of 9mm...as do a ton of other brands of mags.

How is it that they can declare previously legally owned property illegal, without just compensation or grandfathering again?

Posted: 1/29/2018 8:44:16 PM EDT

[#3]

I'll tell you what, in that story, the guy in question did just about everything wrong that he possibly could have.

Posted: 1/30/2018 6:28:44 AM EDT

[#4]

Which town?

Posted: 1/30/2018 9:41:19 AM EDT

[#5]

And what about your typical, law-abiding citizen that doesn't have 14 grand? What does he/she get?

It's awesome that the government gets to arrest people and confiscate their property with the stroke of a pen.

Posted: 1/30/2018 9:46:34 AM EDT

[#6]

The guy is a knucklehead.

Posted: 1/30/2018 11:32:18 AM EDT

[#7]

Quote History

Quoted:
I'll tell you what, in that story, the guy in question did just about everything wrong that he possibly could have.

View Quote

But the lawyer went home at night to his family safe and happy.

Posted: 1/30/2018 12:15:34 PM EDT

[#8]

Quote History

Quoted:
Wonder if they were preban (pre 94) mags or not?

If I recall, preban mags are only a misdemeanor...whereas post ban is a violent felony, worse than raping a child.

Also, those mags are just 10 round .458 SOCOM mags or 10 round .50 Beowolf mags or 8 round 6.8 SPC mags, right?

If you don't agree, then all those .40 cal glock mags are illegal since they hold 12-13 rounds of 9mm...as do a ton of other brands of mags.

How is it that they can declare previously legally owned property illegal, without just compensation or grandfathering again?

View Quote

They did with the safe act no grandfathering- the out they gave was you could keep your 10+ round mags if permanently modified to hold ten rounds or less. There is no distinction in New York any more between pre ban or anything. The only wiggle room is magazines over fifty years old that hold over ten are still allowed but have to be registered with the state

Posted: 1/30/2018 1:32:54 PM EDT

[#9]

Quote History

Quoted:

But the lawyer went home at night to his family safe and happy.

View Quote

You're blaming the lawyer? I think he did a splendid job, getting the guy out of three felonies. He even got his PP back. The lawyer is a hero, as far as I'm concerned.

Now, as far as the cop goes...

Posted: 1/30/2018 1:49:47 PM EDT

[#10]

Quote History

Quoted:
You're blaming the lawyer? I think he did a splendid job, getting the guy out of three felonies. He even got his PP back. The lawyer is a hero, as far as I'm concerned.

Now, as far as the cop goes...

View Quote View All Quotes

View All Quotes

Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:

But the lawyer went home at night to his family safe and happy.

You're blaming the lawyer? I think he did a splendid job, getting the guy out of three felonies. He even got his PP back. The lawyer is a hero, as far as I'm concerned.

Now, as far as the cop goes...

Nope, you need to re calibrate your sarcasm meter bro!

Posted: 1/30/2018 1:59:45 PM EDT

[#11]

Quote History

Quoted:
They did with the safe act no grandfathering- the out they gave was you could keep your 10+ round mags if permanently modified to hold ten rounds or less. There is no distinction in New York any more between pre ban or anything. The only wiggle room is magazines over fifty years old that hold over ten are still allowed but have to be registered with the state

View Quote View All Quotes

View All Quotes

Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:
Wonder if they were preban (pre 94) mags or not?

If I recall, preban mags are only a misdemeanor...whereas post ban is a violent felony, worse than raping a child.

Also, those mags are just 10 round .458 SOCOM mags or 10 round .50 Beowolf mags or 8 round 6.8 SPC mags, right?

If you don't agree, then all those .40 cal glock mags are illegal since they hold 12-13 rounds of 9mm...as do a ton of other brands of mags.

How is it that they can declare previously legally owned property illegal, without just compensation or grandfathering again?

They did with the safe act no grandfathering- the out they gave was you could keep your 10+ round mags if permanently modified to hold ten rounds or less. There is no distinction in New York any more between pre ban or anything. The only wiggle room is magazines over fifty years old that hold over ten are still allowed but have to be registered with the state

Not true.

I understand they (unconstitutionally) got rid of grandfathering...but that is not what I am talking about.

The law DOES differentiate between pre and post ban still...It is a lesser offense (Class A Misd.), or maybe not even an offense at all (if you were ignorant of the law), to possess a +10 mag IF it was made pre-94...AND if you owned it before the law took effect...

From the NYS troopers guide on the SAFE ACT...and it's in the actual law somewhere too...

2. New Penal Law section 265.36 / Unlawful Possession of a Large Capacity Ammunition
Feeding Device / class A misdemeanor
This reduced charge only applies to those who, before January 15th, 2013, lawfully possessed
an ammunition feeding device having a capacity of more than 10 rounds. Penal Law section
265.36 prohibits the knowing possession of these previously exempt magazines
(manufactured before 1994 having a capacity of more than 10 rounds). A violation of this
section is a class A misdemeanor.
But … there’s a catch…
If a person 1) mistakenly believed that possession of a pre-94 magazine was still legal; and
if, 2) he or she either surrenders the magazine or lawfully disposes of it within 30 days after
being notified by law enforcement or a county official that the magazine is unlawful, he or
she may not be charged with this offense.

@captain127

Posted: 1/31/2018 8:20:29 PM EDT

[#12]

Quote History

Quoted:

But the lawyer went home at night to his family safe and happy.

View Quote

Toot toot!

Posted: 1/31/2018 8:57:44 PM EDT

[#13]

Guys, which town was this in, I need to know.

Posted: 1/31/2018 10:00:31 PM EDT

[#14]

I do not recall at the moment. It could have been Pleasantville.

Posted: 2/1/2018 5:49:27 PM EDT

[#15]

Quote History

Quoted:
Not true.

I understand they (unconstitutionally) got rid of grandfathering...but that is not what I am talking about.

The law DOES differentiate between pre and post ban still...It is a lesser offense (Class A Misd.), or maybe not even an offense at all (if you were ignorant of the law), to possess a +10 mag IF it was made pre-94...AND if you owned it before the law took effect...

From the NYS troopers guide on the SAFE ACT...and it's in the actual law somewhere too...

@captain127

View Quote View All Quotes

View All Quotes

Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:
Wonder if they were preban (pre 94) mags or not?

If I recall, preban mags are only a misdemeanor...whereas post ban is a violent felony, worse than raping a child.

Also, those mags are just 10 round .458 SOCOM mags or 10 round .50 Beowolf mags or 8 round 6.8 SPC mags, right?

If you don't agree, then all those .40 cal glock mags are illegal since they hold 12-13 rounds of 9mm...as do a ton of other brands of mags.

How is it that they can declare previously legally owned property illegal, without just compensation or grandfathering again?

They did with the safe act no grandfathering- the out they gave was you could keep your 10+ round mags if permanently modified to hold ten rounds or less. There is no distinction in New York any more between pre ban or anything. The only wiggle room is magazines over fifty years old that hold over ten are still allowed but have to be registered with the state

Not true.

I understand they (unconstitutionally) got rid of grandfathering...but that is not what I am talking about.

The law DOES differentiate between pre and post ban still...It is a lesser offense (Class A Misd.), or maybe not even an offense at all (if you were ignorant of the law), to possess a +10 mag IF it was made pre-94...AND if you owned it before the law took effect...

From the NYS troopers guide on the SAFE ACT...and it's in the actual law somewhere too...

2. New Penal Law section 265.36 / Unlawful Possession of a Large Capacity Ammunition
Feeding Device / class A misdemeanor
This reduced charge only applies to those who, before January 15th, 2013, lawfully possessed
an ammunition feeding device having a capacity of more than 10 rounds. Penal Law section
265.36 prohibits the knowing possession of these previously exempt magazines
(manufactured before 1994 having a capacity of more than 10 rounds). A violation of this
section is a class A misdemeanor.
But … there’s a catch…
If a person 1) mistakenly believed that possession of a pre-94 magazine was still legal; and
if, 2) he or she either surrenders the magazine or lawfully disposes of it within 30 days after
being notified by law enforcement or a county official that the magazine is unlawful, he or
she may not be charged with this offense.

@captain127

That is good to know.

Posted: 2/3/2018 9:27:49 AM EDT

[#16]

Quote History

Quoted:

You're blaming the lawyer? I think he did a splendid job, getting the guy out of three felonies. He even got his PP back. The lawyer is a hero, as far as I'm concerned.

Now, as far as the cop goes...

View Quote

You meant "she did a splendid job".

Posted: 2/22/2018 9:16:19 PM EDT

[#17]

Quoted:
A little birdie told me a story about a guy who drove through one of Westchester towns. Got pulled over for tinted windows. The cop looked up that he has a PP. Asked about his pistol. The guy said it was in a glove box. Opened the glove box. Next to the pistol he had two 30-rd mags for a Mini-14. The cop subsequently searched the car, found an AR-15 built on an 80% lower with a pistol grip, collapsible stock, and a bayonet lug. The guy eventually plead to a possession 4 (misdemeanor), cost him $14,000 for lawyers. And even regained his PP. Took a while though.

View Quote

2 questions if I could:

1.) what system is the officer using to check for a PP? I didn't know that they had this at their fingertips in NYS?

2.) what keeps the guy from saying "the gun is at home?" no search after that right?

Just probably what I think most savy guys would do

Posted: 2/23/2018 3:37:23 PM EDT

[#18]

Since I can't carry all of them at once, the answer of "my gun's at home" is going to always be technically correct.

Posted: 2/24/2018 9:58:10 AM EDT

[#19]

Quote History

Quoted:

2 questions if I could:

1.) what system is the officer using to check for a PP? I didn't know that they had this at their fingertips in NYS?

2.) what keeps the guy from saying "the gun is at home?" no search after that right?

Just probably what I think most savy guys would do

View Quote

Actually, per NY case law, People vs. Garcia 2012, it was illegal for the cop to ask if he had a gun with him. His proper response would have been silence, or "Do you suspect me of being involved in a crime, officer?". If he hadn't voluntarily let the cop search his car (opened his glove box) he either wouldn't have found his rifle or, if he searched it anyway, none of the evidence would have been admissible in court.

Posted: 2/24/2018 11:13:54 AM EDT

[#20]

Quote History

Quoted:

Actually, per NY case law, People vs. Garcia 2012, it was illegal for the cop to ask if he had a gun with him. His proper response would have been silence, or "Do you suspect me of being involved in a crime, officer?". If he hadn't voluntarily let the cop search his car (opened his glove box) he either wouldn't have found his rifle or, if he searched it anyway, none of the evidence would have been admissible in court.

View Quote

Interesting to know...

I still am curious as to how the officer was able to pull up the permit info at a traffic stop

Posted: 2/25/2018 12:58:02 PM EDT

[#21]

Quote History

Quoted:

Actually, per NY case law, People vs. Garcia 2012, it was illegal for the cop to ask if he had a gun with him. His proper response would have been silence, or "Do you suspect me of being involved in a crime, officer?". If he hadn't voluntarily let the cop search his car (opened his glove box) he either wouldn't have found his rifle or, if he searched it anyway, none of the evidence would have been admissible in court.

View Quote

Except in many place the judge 'requires' you to notify law enforcement when you are carrying. So now the average citizen who is not an ARF law major tells the officer first thing because they don't want to risk getting their permit taken away by the judge.

Posted: 2/25/2018 1:01:11 PM EDT

[#22]

Quote History

Quoted:
I still am curious as to how the officer was able to pull up the permit info at a traffic stop

View Quote

Usually the county is responsible to maintain the PP database. If the county clerk or court or whoever maintains that database gives permission for LE to access it it's pretty simple. There is currently nothing through the state database that returns PP info when running a license or a plate. You can submit requests to Albany for PP info (who has what guns registered to them) but it's not instant. Somebody from NYSP has to go and physically check the filing cabinet and then come back and reply to you. Might take minutes, might take days. I expect this is one of the things they are looking to change with the new database they are building.

Posted: 2/25/2018 3:44:10 PM EDT

[#23]

Quote History

Quoted:

Usually the county is responsible to maintain the PP database. If the county clerk or court or whoever maintains that database gives permission for LE to access it it's pretty simple. There is currently nothing through the state database that returns PP info when running a license or a plate. You can submit requests to Albany for PP info (who has what guns registered to them) but it's not instant. Somebody from NYSP has to go and physically check the filing cabinet and then come back and reply to you. Might take minutes, might take days. I expect this is one of the things they are looking to change with the new database they are building.

View Quote

So from what I see (and admittedly this story has limited information here) the officer knew this information when he came up to the car. Doesn't it seem a little strange that the officer knew this information if the only way he could do this is by actually calling the NYSP? Is this now standard for police to do?

Admittedly in Ohio we have to reveal this information to police, but that is because of state law. We also have our CC permits listed in the drivers license database. But for those of us who open carry there is no information available.

Just seems strange and in all probability is due to the story missing some information I guess

Posted: 2/26/2018 2:48:43 AM EDT

[#24]

Quote History

Quoted:

So from what I see (and admittedly this story has limited information here) the officer knew this information when he came up to the car. Doesn't it seem a little strange that the officer knew this information if the only way he could do this is by actually calling the NYSP? Is this now standard for police to do?

Admittedly in Ohio we have to reveal this information to police, but that is because of state law. We also have our CC permits listed in the drivers license database. But for those of us who open carry there is no information available.

Just seems strange and in all probability is due to the story missing some information I guess

View Quote

Not necessarily. If the county this happened in maintains a local database and allows the police to access it then conceivably the officer would have this information any time a plate is ran as it would hit on the registered owners name. Again, I'd need some more specifics as to how they do things with regards to pistol permits and their database as well as their CAD system but it is possible depending on their local setup.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - A little birdie told me a story

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