I read where the DNR in kicking around the idea of a 19 day season, supposedly because of the 14% drop in this years bag totals as well as falling gun sales and license sales?  Could it be that the herd just isn't as big as they claim?

I've been a WI deer hunter since age 14, in 1964. Started in Juneau County on family farms with gramps, hunted in Iron County in the 70s when an uncle moved up there, near Pembine in the 80s when a buddy at work bought a deer camp with 80 acres, and in the Nicolet near Eagle River since moving here 1991. So I guess you could say I'm one of the "old timers", who spent 56 years neck deep in the "tradition" of the current season franmework. And I'm 100% in favor of a longer season, always have been. Hell ya.

Do I think the herd is as big as they say? No, not quite...but I also think there are more than people think there are. The population is still high, but it's not evenly distributed, and the public land deer have shifted to living in the sanctuary of privte land, and places like sub-divisions where there is little to no hunting pressure and people feed them all year. I live in one of those, and public hunting land is only a few miles away. I cannot look out a window without seeing deer, almost all day long, all year long... at home. When I go out to that public land in winter, no deer tracks in the snow... just wolf tracks. And those are fucking everywhere you look. The wolves haven't eaten all the deer as some people claim, but just their constant presence has driven the deer to reside in "safer" areas. It won't be long before the wolves follow them. I've already seen them lurking around on my land.

Just my opinion from what I see everyday...

I believe the first year I hunted was 1963, but I had been going with my Dad to camp since about 1961 or so.  It was an old lumber camp in SE Sawyer Co.,  Off West Lane.  We later "upgraded" to a new camp a little west of there, off Haystack Rd., when the State tore the lumber camp down (and subsequently had us tear the new one down as well).   In early days, it was a big deal when someone got a deer around there - they were pretty scarce.  In later years, we actually filled up one year and came close a few others - that's with 10-12 hunters.  So I'd say the numbers appear to be up, but it's kind of feast or famine.  We hunt there because there are times we see no other hunters over 9 days.  I can deal with less deer if it comes with less hunters.  It's all Co. land, but the only people that hunted there were from other camps.  As of late, we've run across more hunters from all over the state.  I think if the season went to 19 days, my season would be over after 9 anyway.

I heard a summary of this on the morning news today.  I must say that I'm a bit confused, but maybe it was due to the reporting.

They indicated that the reason for extending the season was to try and reduce the heard by 30,000.  That makes sense.  Then, at the same time, they are considering eliminating crossbows from the archery season and limiting the time that crossbows can hunt.  If they want to thin the heard, why reduce the number of hunters (gun, archery or crossbow)????

I've heard of other bow hunters ragging about crossbow hunters - apparently they're upset that the crossbow hunters are taking too many deer - they have an unfair advantage, etc.  Well hell, why aren't they using long bows or re-curves then?  I thought the idea was to harvest deer.  I'd like to see a muzzle loading season earlier.

Michigan has always had a 16 day gun season. It begins on Nov 15th, ends on the 30th. Unlike WI, it doesn't always begin on a saturday. Begining on a weekday eases the overcrowding of that opening weekend, especially on public land. But too many people are against that here, because someone else may get to hunt while they have to work. Boo hoo, too fucking bad, take a vacation. I know...it's hard to get that week off in some cases, because everyone wants it. Well a 2 week season would ease that problem some too.

As for or overharvesting with a longer season... they don't harvest anymore deer per hunter in MI with the extra 7 days than WI does. Because most people don't hunt all 16 days anyway. But it spreads out the hunting pressure, especially with the, more often than not, weekday opening and closing, and gives more time to have an opportunity to be out there trying. If a longer season meant overkilling the deer herd, then states like Texas and Alabama that have 30-60 day seasons should be totally devoid of deer. But they're not, far from it. If over harvesting of bucks is a problem, shortening one season and making no changes to the others won't do anything. People will just switch weapons and buy the other licenses. One buck per person per year, regardless of weapon used, will prevent overharvesting of bucks if that were indeed a problem (I don't think it is, nor will be with a longer gun season). Or (OMG the horror!) shorten the archery seasons!

What a longer gun season will do is give gun hunters a crack at the deer in the tail end of the rut, and hunting will begin in a little bit warmer weather if the season started earlier. The rut is something the bow hunters have had exclusively to take advantage of, so they are against the gun season "encroaching" on their monopoly of the rut.

If there were a 16 day or 19 day season here, all those other "special" seasons could probably be eliminated.  I'd like to see a whole extra week added to the current season framework. Instead of opening the weekend prior to Thanksgiving, I'd like to see it open the weekend before that, and run to the sunday after Thanksgiving. That would put the earliest possible opening date at Nov. 12th. Or just do what MI does... Nov 15-30 every year. Both would always include the 4 day Thanksgiving weekend, which seems to be the sacred cow.

Totally agree.

I'm sure this idea will be discussed and voted on at this year's state wide Conservation Congress meetings held in every county seat in early April. If you want this idea come to fruition, then please attend and vote accordingly.
Gary

Heard they want to limit crossbows to October only. Well you fricken morons do want the deer herd lower or play games. Who can shoot when and with what. Oh wait we'll make the gun season longer WTF??

I live next to public land right across the street. It's gets pounded to death all fall and gun season is worse. Shooting all gun season long but yet no deer tracks on the property. I wonder what all the super idiots are shooting at. Especially with all the homes that surround the public land. Yet some whine about not getting access to private land. What do you fricken expect??

Quit hunting couple years ago after 45 years in the woods. Nearly got shot several times and bullets whizzing over my head from all the new fricken neighbors hunting on 5 acres. Plus the public land next door. It simply isn't worth it for a stupid CWD infested deer.

If you can't kill a deer with a rifle in 9 days how will 10 more days help? It will just make the non hunters wear orange in their yards and fear going out on their property for 10 more days. Which will surely help with the land access issue.

If you work for living, your current season is only 5 days, and one of those is a holiday usually spent with family. It's hard to get off work when you work with other hunters because everyone wants those other 4 days off too. So what you have is 550,000 people in the woods on those 5 days. That increases the overcrowding on public land, and yes it does make it harder to kill a deer. The extra 10 days give more people access to time off, to hunt. Not many people will hunt all 19 days because not many people can get that much time off work, so it will spread out the pressure.

I'm fortunate in that I haven't had to deal with this "time off" issue, but my buddies do. I've been self employed for the past 35 years, andif I don't want to work, I just don't. Before that, I worked at a roofing company that had so many deer hunters, the company just closed down for that week... nobody showed up for work anyway, and the weather usually isn't good roofing weather. I enjoy hunting mon-wed more than the other 6 days, because the woods are far less crowded.

And not everyone is out there to just kill "a" deer. I'm not. I can't count the number of small bucks I've let walk away, that never saw me. I hunt for trophies, not a bit ashamed of it. The more time I have for that, the more I like it.

Personally, I don't give a flying fuck what non-hunters think about it. It's all just paranoia anyway, like most anti-gun people have. The safety record of 550,000-600,000 people in the woods with guns all on one opening weekend is actually pretty outstanding. If they had their way, there'd be no deer season at all.

Well stated!!

Hunters have proven the ability to minimize the risks and protect people. We don’t need the nannies to ruin things.

I honestly don't think it would help a whole lot in deer gun deer kills.

The amount of gun hunters that go out the second weekend or during holiday hunts/doe only hunts etc is pretty low from what I've seen.

LOTS of gun only hunters simply hunt opening morning, maybe that afternoon, the numbers drop off for the second day even.  Second weekend is even lower.  So adding another weekend to it is going to help?  I don't think so.

IMO there shouldn't be any weapons specific season.  You buy a deer hunting license that comes with whatever amount of carcass tags the DNR deems appropriate for your area and you can kill them with whatever legal means you feel necessary.  Who cares what damn weapon you kill them with?

If we do have weapons specific times though, I do think crossbows should have their own season.  Maybe traditional equipment should get their own season too, but there will be about 3 guys in the woods that week so I don't think it makes sense.  If you think a crossbow and compound bow are equal in difficulty, you haven't hunted with both.  I use and kill deer with both every single year since they have allowed their use by non-disabled hunters.  The crossbow is MUCH easier to kill deer with and that's why we use them to thin the doe herd out and let the kids use to kill with.  No real talent needed.  NOT the case with any style of vertical bow.

It's the difference between shooting a scoped rifle off the bench on sand bags to shooting off hand with iron sights.  Which one is harder?  Same bullet going down range, sure.  Which one takes more talent to execute?  A child could hit a 500 yard target with a rifle off bags.  Same child could not reliably put rounds on a 100 yard target off hand with irons.

ETA This year's Conservation Congress state wide Spring Hearings will be held on Monday, April 13th.
Gary

As long as it doesn't start earlier and shorten the season for grouse hunting.

I'd like to see a longer season if it starts earlier.  Going into December with the lower temps and deeper snow is far less appealing.

I know MN has a longer season that starts earlier than ours and it sounds like MI does too.

I do know that over the years the number of shots I hear on opening day keeps declining.  Saturday morning and evening used to sound like popcorn popping, now it's 1/10 of what it used to be.  If you can go by bar parking lots on Friday Eve, there are a lot less people coming up.  Or hopefully it really means less drunks on the road.

I long ago quit hunting on public land to avoid the idiots and now stay on the family land, so I don't know what the impact would be on bow hunters and grouse hunters.  Those hunters will probably see an impact.

No matter what the State does it's probably going to make some people unhappy.

It most definately will start a week earlier, and grouse season does not close during deer season now, no reason for that to change. Grouse is my 3rd favorite game to pursue, after waterfowl and deer (w/ gun). Hunting birds with my Lab is something I much prefer to do over bow hunting, and it's partly why I quit bowhunting altogether 20 years ago. There just wasn't time enough to do it all, and something had to stop... and bow hunting took up far too much time to be successful, than I had to give it.

If you choose not to hunt grouse when gun deer season is open, that's your personal choice. I still do, there's always a 20ga in my Jeep in the fall, but my dog stays home. There's no way currently to hunt grouse when archery season is not open, so you hunt with bow & crossbow hunters now as it is. If you work during the week and hunt weekends like most people, you'd only be losing one weekend of the 3-1/2 month grouse season. If a 19 day season means no more early doe hunts, you don't lose anything. In fact, you trade an Oct weekend for a mid-Nov weekend... that's a plus to me.

I started hunting in the '70's.
In the county I'm in the harvest in the '70's was less than 1000/yr. total
In the 80s' it was a high of 2200/yr.
In the 90's it was a high of 3800/yr.
Since then its been averaging about 3200/yr.

It was unusual to see more than 2-3 deer at a time back then, now I have seen herds of over a dozen at time.
Wife and I saw over 80 deer last spring on the 10 mile drive home from town. That was unheard of 40-50 years ago.

So its obvious that there is more deer now than decades ago.
In my area at least. I suspect that my area is not unique from the majority of the southern 1/2 of the state.
All this while there is less land to hunt and supposedly fewer hunters.

So the evidence is there that there is more deer.

Trouble is harvesting them.
Lots of private land never gets hunted.
The deer know the "safe" spots.
After the first day deer are very scarce on the hunted areas.
But the "safe" areas have lots of deer.
I can see 1-2 dozen deer in the fields in the evenings during the season in the "safe" areas by me.

I have lots of trouble on place from deer over browsing.
I'd like to see the herd reduced as to what it was 40 years ago.
That would mean reducing it to approx 1/3 its size.

How to do that is tough one.
Gotta shoot more does is the only way.

True, without any doubts.

That used to be true up north too. After hunting season activity died down, they'd go to their traditional yarding areas for the winter, then in spring they'd disperse again back into the big woods, mostly public forests. Populated areas up north, where there is no hunting allowed, became sanctuaries during hunting seasons.

Then the wolf population exploded, and they now kill more deer in areas of the northern forest than do the hunters (see link below) ... so from the deer's point of view, it's hunting season all year long now. They go to those same sanctuaries, and stay there all year. There's more deer now than hunters believe, but they don't see them in the usual places, because their habits have been permanently altered by being preyed upon 365 days per year. When I moved to my house in 1991, we'd occasionally see deer wander through our yard. But never big groups. Right now, today, I have a dozen or so that more or less live on my 2 acres. I can see 5 from my kitchen window, right now, bedded down in my woods. That was unheard of 20 years ago.

https://www.deeranddeerhunting.com/content/articles/deer-news/more-deer-killed-by-wolves-than-by-hunters-in-2019

I have read wolf/deer studies that state the same as you. Wolves cause deer to move to areas that don't have or have very little wolf activity.

Your situation sounds like the deer pockets in the unhunted areas around and or in cities, parks, natural areas and semi-rural suburbs.

The deer will prioritize safety over a easier meal in a dangerous area.

So the end result is you'll never be able to cut the deer herd down in size without being able to hunt those "safe" areas.

If the season was 19 days it doesn't matter, the deer will linger where they can't be shot till a couple of days after the hunters are out of the woods at best.

Only way I can see to reduce the deer herd is either make it so one had to shoot a doe before a buck.
Saw a recent survey from the DNR, number one reason out maybe of 10-12 reasons people hunt deer is to shoot a buck, not shoot a deer but a buck.
1 out of 5 answered that.
So the desire to shoot a buck is high. Antlers and ball-sacs must be tasty.
Leverage that desire by forcing those 1 out of 5 hunters (bow, x-bow and gun) to shoot the first doe that walks by then allowing them to shoot a buck.

Didn't they try that in some units in the past?  I wonder how that worked out.

Haha earn a buck with the new online self registering of deer, I bet lots of doe would die opening day of bow season... Deer population isn't an issue by me in the southern farmland zone, and my friends that hunt in the northern zones don't report seeing tons of deer either.

Keep the seasons the same or expand them doesn't matter to me, I will be in the woods as much as possible like every year.

How would that work in areas up north that have zero or very few doe tags, if it was implemented state-wide? Cancel deer season in no-doe-tag zones? It would have to be applied in specific county zones only, like it was before.

Earn a buck was tried, didn't work. And that was with in-person registration still in place. With internet/call-in registration, there'd be a lot of "phantom" does registered, that actually never were shot. That's likely what most would do if a 10pt buck walked into range on opening morning. Register a doe immediately after shooting the 10pt and bringing him home, go back to the woods and hunt the rest of the day to actually kill a doe, then register the 10 pt buck that night or next morning whether they killed a doe or not. "No way do I let him walk away because of an earn-a-buck rule", would be the widespread sentiment. That's why earn-a-buck was dropped. That's just the opposite of the situation now, where deer are shot but never registered, so maybe they'd cancel each other.

My dog chews antlers, I don't. Funny thing... I've never shot a trophy buck that didn't come attached to ~100lbs of meat too.

I tried hanging doe meat on my wall, on a plaque, once...didn't work out.

No doubt your right about lots of does dying. Maybe some tweeks needed.
I just pointed out that the biggest reason people hunt deer in WI is the chance to shoot a BUCK.
I'm trying to use that to get more does harvested. This thread started about 19 day season due to population issues.
I'm suggesting a solution, altho not perfect its a starting point.

I'll bet if you look at harvest for the last 50 years or so the harvest has gone up several multiples in your region.
I don't know how long you've hunted the region your in but look at it over a longer period than 10 years.

In the last 10-20 years it has fluctuated up and down but looking at this time period the harvest has never been higher.

So there are more deer now than any other time. Maybe not this year or last but withing a recent time period of 20 years or so.

The fact is that at current population levels deer are damaging the natural environment.
There are native plants that can't reproduce because of deer.
Just cause one doesn't notice it doesn't mean it's not happening.

Deer hunters judge the population of deer on how many they see and can shoot. The more the better for them.
This is a self interest. You may not care about the native plants and ecology of where you live.
Thats fine. But deer hunters wanting larger herds effect those that do, and others such as foresters, farmers and Ins. companies.
All of which effects the costs of goods and services from those places which effects all of us.

More to deer populations than just hunting.

No argument on your post. There always has been "creative" tagging/registration. Also lots of creative harvest done especially when there are groups of people hunting. I'm not a fan of the current system, I'd prefer we go back to the old way.
I'm just tossing a way to get the populations down which are higher than any previous 20 year period.

The northern 1/2 is a different can of worms than the southern 1/2.
At least you have a natural predator than can keep the population somewhat in check.
Even at that it'll take several decades before the full effects of wolves are felt unless we can get the harvesting of wolves back in state control.