Quoted: Quoted: As you probably heard this morning, two Democrats are saying they likely will vote against PPA even though they had voted in favor. Here's a constructive question: Which two Democrats?

Steinbrink  and Van Akkeren
From  JSonline

Concealed weapons The concealed weapons bill (SB 403), passed the Assembly early Wednesday on a 64-32 vote - two votes short of the 66 votes needed to override the expected Doyle veto. The vote came after a last-minute amendment won new support from Democrats. The change returned the bill to the Senate, which will vote on it in January. Assembly sponsors of the bill were confident they would have the votes needed to override Doyle if GOP candidate Scott Newcomer wins a Waukesha County seat traditionally controlled by Republicans. And Republican Rep. Mary Williams of Medford was absent but is expected to support an override. Six Democrats voted for the concealed weapons bill: Reps. John Steinbrink of Pleasant Prairie; Terry Van Akkeren of Sheboygan; Barbara Gronemus of Whitehall; Mary Hubler of Rice Lake; Amy Sue Vruwink of Milladore; and Schneider. Four of those six Democrats said Wednesday they would vote to override Doyle, but Steinbrink and Van Akkeren refused to make that same pledge. Their votes could decide whether the concealed weapons bill becomes law over Doyle's objection. Van Akkeren said he is troubled by the bill because it would not allow police officers to check whether a homeowner had a permit to carry concealed weapons when they respond to domestic abuse calls. He refused to say how he would vote on an override, because the Senate could again change the proposal. Asked whether he would vote to override the governor, Steinbrink said: "I'm weighing my options on that. . . . I'm not 100 percent locked in, (but) I like the bill. I like what's been done to it." The Senate sponsor of the bill, Sen. Dave Zien (R-Eau Claire), said Wednesday that senators will take up the Assembly version of the bill in mid-January. Senators will not change the bill again, Zien said. Zien said anyone who flipped their votes would risk being voted out of office next year. "Anyone that screws us on this legislation - Democrat or Republican, Assembly or Senate - the NRA is going to work unbelievably earnestly, taking no prisoners, on this next election cycle," Zien said of the National Rifle Association. Rep. Scott Gunderson (R-Waterford), the bill's Assembly author, said he had worked for weeks to secure the six Democratic votes, and he expects all six to vote for an override. Assembly Democratic Leader Jim Kreuser of Kenosha said Wednesday's changes made the bill better, but he said Republicans ultimately would not have the two-thirds majority necessary to override a veto. The Senate passed the concealed carry bill last week on a 23-10 vote, with enough votes to override a veto, and Zien said that two-thirds majority would hold up. Doyle vetoed a similar bill in 2003. Then, the Senate voted to override it but the Assembly fell one vote short.

How was it a set-up if they got 64 votes when they only needed 49 to get it to the Governor's desk?

Also, not that it means a whole lot in the world of politics, Steinbrink voted for the PPA last time around, voted for the override, and also voted for AB-675 in 2002.

"Rep. John Steinbrink of Pleasant Prairie, also twice refused to say how he would vote on the override." - 27JAN04

Van Akkeren just needs to be reminded that a permit system will have zero effect on whether a person carrys in their home or business, co cops will just have to go back to assuming that everyine at whatever domestic call they make is a potential danger to their safety.

In my opinion, Hubler from Rice Lake is the one to worry about - but since it kinda sounds like you guys are throwing in your towels at this point - just relax.  Don't sweat the PPA.

Quoted: How was it a set-up if they got 64 votes when they only needed 49 to get it to the Governor's desk? Also, not that it means a whole lot in the world of politics, Steinbrink voted for the PPA last time around, voted for the override, and also voted for AB-675 in 2002. "Rep. John Steinbrink of Pleasant Prairie, also twice refused to say how he would vote on the override." - 27JAN04 Van Akkeren just needs to be reminded that a permit system will have zero effect on whether a person carrys in their home or business, co cops will just have to go back to assuming that everyine at whatever domestic call they make is a potential danger to their safety. In my opinion, Hubler from Rice Lake is the one to worry about - but since it kinda sounds like you guys are throwing in your towels at this point - just relax.  Don't sweat the PPA.

Not throwing in the towel on shit man. But lets be realistic here, enough votes to get it to the shitbirds desk doesn't mean shit and never did, we knew we had enough to get it to his desk. The issue was and always has been if we would have enough for the veto override. And that has never been a given(that we'd get enough votes). As is the vote tally was 2 short of a veto override.

So we were two shoirt to begin with, and now were two more down, That means we have to pick up 4 votes total. Where are they comming from? Only one repub didn't vote either way on the bill and only one dim did not vote on the bill. So we pick up one right with that repub voting for override. We still need three more. We may get one depending on the outcome of the of an election in Waukesha but thats a big if. So still three short, you want to tell me where they are comming from? Cuz I don't see it happening unless these two dems stay on board, and we can't be sure they will.
If the senate pulls the latest amendment expect Hubler to not vote for the override. So no matter what as it stands right now, were three votes short of an override. Which doesn't really matter becuase we'd still be one short depending on the outcome of the WA election comming up if they stuck around.

Not a big deal, we have just a small difference of opinion here:

• I'm reading that four of those six Democrats that voted for the PPA said they would vote to override Doyle, but that two, Steinbrink (as he has in previous years) and Van Akkeren, refused to make that same "pledge".  "Pledge" being the key word here.
• You're reading it as; those two, plus Hubler, are going to stick with Doyle.

It's my understanding that we need 65 of 98 for an override, I've read that in the past --> can someone confirm.  Regardless, on Jan. 10th the 99th spot will be filled, and the Republican is favored to win (mostly Repub. in the past and the Democ. doesn't have much of a campaign budget to get votes).  All of the Repub. running are pro-CCW.  

This last vote was 64-32, and the two paired were split... so basically the vote was 65-33, with the vacant seat filled with a Repub. we would have 66-33.  Neither of them said the WOULDN'T override, they just said they aren't sure.  From the tone which Hubler gave her agreements during this last session I feel she will vote for the override.  I also don't think they are going to drop Amendment 15, it was prepared by the Republicans just to get votes for the override (Hubler).  It would be a waste to kick it to the curb.

Steinbrink voted for the override last time, that is good.  At this point I'm worried about Van Akkeren.

Is it going to be close, hell yes ---> should we give up and lose hope, NO!

Quoted: Not a big deal, we have just a small difference of opinion here: I'm reading that four of those six Democrats that voted for the PPA said they would vote to override Doyle, but that two, Steinbrink (as he has in previous years) and Van Akkeren, refused to make that same "pledge".  "Pledge" being the key word here. You're reading it as; those two, plus Hubler, are going to stick with Doyle.

No I'm taking it that those are not garunteed votes to override the veto and I will not count them as such  till they are cast because we don't know what going to happen to them.

Quoted: It's my understanding that we need 65 of 98 for an override, I've read that in the past --> can someone confirm.  Regardless, on Jan. 10th the 99th spot will be filled, and the Republican is favored to win (mostly Repub. in the past and the Democ. doesn't have much of a campaign budget to get votes).  All of the Repub. running are pro-CCW.   This last vote was 64-32, and the two paired were split... so basically the vote was 65-33, with the vacant seat filled with a Repub. we would have 66-33.  Neither of them said the WOULDN'T override, they just said they aren't sure.  From the tone which Hubler gave her agreements during this last session I feel she will vote for the override.  I also don't think they are going to drop Amendment 15, it was prepared by the Republicans just to get votes for the override (Hubler).  It would be a waste to kick it to the curb. Steinbrink voted for the override last time, that is good.  At this point I'm worried about Van Akkeren. Is it going to be close, hell yes ---> should we give up and lose hope, NO!

66 is required.

The problem here is that even with it sitting at  65-33 counting williams vote to override that would include these two voting for the override as well, with the new repub we would have 66, execpt that those 66 include thes two dems so if we lose them or Hubler we lose the veto override, and Hubler can be lost if the sentat does what they said and not accept any of the cahnges to the bill. So were still short and I won't count the two dems till the vote.

If it means getting it passed, I'll bet the senate allows the amendments.

Friends,

According to Rep. Gundersen, heard on WPR today, he has received personal assurances from all 6 democrats that they will vote to overide.  I tend to believe him.  Further I can't see what could be in it for anyone to pull a Sherman since most realize Doyle is a lame duck.

Anything can happen and our margin is a single vote.  But I believe the chances are about 80%+ that we will see permits sometime next summer.

We need to politely, professionally and presistantly contact these six friends and urge them to stay the course.  The soonest that  Doyle may see the bill on his desk is January 18th.  There is plenty of time for BOTH sides to influence these members.

Jeff

What that guy said.

Quoted: Friends, According to Rep. Gundersen, heard on WPR today, he has received personal assurances from all 6 democrats that they will vote to overide.  I tend to believe him.  Further I can't see what could be in it for anyone to pull a Sherman since most realize Doyle is a lame duck. Anything can happen and our margin is a single vote.  But I believe the chances are about 80%+ that we will see permits sometime next summer. We need to politely, professionally and presistantly contact these six friends and urge them to stay the course.  The soonest that  Doyle may see the bill on his desk is January 18th.  There is plenty of time for BOTH sides to influence these members. Jeff

Thats good to hear, BUT I still won't believe it till the two of those 6 that were said to be wavering on it vote.

^^^ Me neither, but I that time it wouldn't matter anymore so we son't need to talk about it.  

Quoted: Friends, According to Rep. Gundersen, heard on WPR today, he has received personal assurances from all 6 democrats that they will vote to overide.  I tend to believe him.  Further I can't see what could be in it for anyone to pull a Sherman since most realize Doyle is a lame duck. Anything can happen and our margin is a single vote.  But I believe the chances are about 80%+ that we will see permits sometime next summer. We need to politely, professionally and presistantly contact these six friends and urge them to stay the course.  The soonest that  Doyle may see the bill on his desk is January 18th.  There is plenty of time for BOTH sides to influence these members. Jeff

Good news. I hope we get the override, but I'm not holding my breath for anything. Never trust a politician.

It will be quite ironic if WI gets CCW just as I move to either (a) a foreign country or (b) a pro-CCW state....

Probables are Texas or Germany, with final destination being deployment anyway (I'd hope)...

Quoted: Quoted: It's my understanding that we need 65 of 98 for an override, 66 is required.

Here is a quote from GlockTalk in regards to the number of votes required.  I don't think is going to be a determining factor, but it does clarify the 65 vs. 66 vote issue...

Originally posted by WIG19 on GlockTalk I clarified with John Hogan that vote requirements are calculated by rounding down. As he puts it: "We'd need 2/3 of those voting on that specific roll call vote, which can be different than those present at the Call of the House that day.  So, for example, assume all 99 Reps are present, but a Democrat (not one of the 6 that we need to vote AYE) were stuck in the bathroom and missed that vote, then we'd need 2/3 of 98, which would be 65.33.  They'd round down." I would be really surprised if any Dems (voting Nay) miss that vote. Doyle would have their head; although if his travel contract/campaign contributing buddies keep getting looked at (including by the Feds) the '06 election could go our way much easier than we think. Gotta love it - timing is everything.

-Jason