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Posted: 3/24/2006 1:29:49 PM EDT
[#1]
I don't know about anyone else, so I'll just speak for myself when it came to the Aimpoint group buy. I had no plans on buying an Aimpoint or an EOTech. I will not spend money on a copy. I was quite content with my ACOG.
Now that I have an Aimpoint, I'm probably going to buy either an M3 with magnifier or the EOTech 553 when it comes out. The Aimpoint from the group buy will be relegated to fun gun status. |
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Posted: 3/27/2006 3:02:40 PM EDT
[#2]
Whats up with this?
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Posted: 3/27/2006 3:07:11 PM EDT
[#3]
With what? |
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Posted: 3/27/2006 3:09:17 PM EDT
[#4]
Is this a temp move? If so, for how long? |
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Posted: 3/27/2006 3:22:31 PM EDT
[#5]
I think Grant is still trying to get his membership back. What shocked me was the news on his forum. |
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Posted: 3/27/2006 3:26:02 PM EDT
[#6]
ditto
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Posted: 3/27/2006 4:01:21 PM EDT
[#7]
so this wasn't larue it was about aimpoints?
I'm not gonna say I'm not renewing my membership, but I certianly ain't going gold and I'll mention why when my renewal comes up. |
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Posted: 3/27/2006 4:03:29 PM EDT
[#8]
No it wasn't about Aimpoints. The Aimpoint thing was thrown out by some people who don't like Grant's other opinions. And no it wasn't about LaRue. It was about another mount/rail company. |
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Posted: 3/27/2006 4:19:22 PM EDT
[#9]
+1 (or should it be -1).
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Posted: 3/27/2006 4:25:03 PM EDT
[#10]
Probably about Grant's opinions on ARMS products.
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Posted: 3/27/2006 4:28:59 PM EDT
[#11]
While I don't know all the facts..
I am really disappointed with ARF. I would even go so far as saying that I am bummed that I upgraded to gold...  Some Industry people can walk all over members and be held unaccountable.. while G&R has a stellar record and gets the boot.ARF is wearing multiple Black Eyes. |
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Posted: 3/27/2006 4:34:38 PM EDT
[#12]
not A stellar record. THE stellar record. |
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Posted: 3/27/2006 4:53:15 PM EDT
[#13]
BINGO. |
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Posted: 3/27/2006 4:56:08 PM EDT
[#14]
Just go to the feedback forum and read the ammoman thread. Ammoman rips off a guy and then refuses to even discuss the ordeal with staff (trying to work out the issue). Ammoman lawyers up over a $375 Vietnam bringback that wasn't as it was listed
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Posted: 3/27/2006 6:18:24 PM EDT
[#15]
Me too Leif. My membership will NOT be renewed. |
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Posted: 3/28/2006 4:33:17 AM EDT
[#16]
Unlike other stores, where CCH'ers seem to understand that you keep you concealed gun in your holster, it always seems that someone wants to try their gun in a new holster or show it to someone behind the counter. Try standing behind a counter all day as people want to draw their loaded guns and clear them in a store full of people. With the number of people handling guns in a gun shop it's only a matter of time before someone AD's with a loaded gun. Don't believe me, come into Gilberts and I'll show you the hole in the carpet . If you bring your gun in concealed, and keep it concealed, no ones the wiser and all are happy. Start drawing the thing in the store and we're going to ask you to take it outside. |
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Posted: 3/28/2006 8:33:47 AM EDT
[#17]
I'm pretty sure as well... I read that Ammoman thread. That is bullshit. If AR15.com wants to protect certain dealers because they pay more, then they can keep getting their money from those fucks, not from me. Why pay for a search function? Nowadays here, I get yelled at for telling someone to do a f*cking search. Yeah, I've had moderators IM me and "yell" at me for doing this. I've been threatened and then told that if it's a dupe topic to let the mods know. I've also been told to quit going OT to explain to someone to use the f*cking search and why it's there- that dupes are a P.I.T.A. for some of us and they aren't necessary. So I went through and found every dupe and OT thread I could find and IM'd the mod over and over again with new ones. He turned his IMs off. Whatever...  And oh yeah, the rumors about Dick Swan and ARMS are true. That's the reason. The ARMS arguments are the reason. Who the FUCK cares about Dick Swan and ARMS around here when we have LaRue and other BETTER products? Why protect this Dick Swan person when he doesn't even contribute one iota to the boards or discussions!?!? |
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Posted: 3/28/2006 9:20:03 AM EDT
[#18]
What is interesting is that G&R did NOT steal anyones money or anything remotely like that. Yet other dealers and IP's that do such things are allowed to remain on.  |
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Posted: 3/28/2006 9:55:53 AM EDT
[#19]
I don't know why I bother. The staff are just looking at this and saying "well, that's one more f*cker we don't need anyway..."
I'm just pissing up a rope... |
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Posted: 3/28/2006 11:15:29 AM EDT
[#20]
Regardless of whether or not you agreed or disagreed, liked or disliked Grant the fact remains that this site was bullied by ARMS (directly or indirectly). It was a decision based on money and because they feared they'd lose more money by keeping him around, they cut him loose.
I think it's disgraceful because the other sponsor(s) wouldn't have pulled out either because being here is good for them too. They bluffed the site and the site folded. I'd like to play poker with those guys! |
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Posted: 3/28/2006 12:40:01 PM EDT
[#21]
Just as an FYI, Ammoman had his dealer status pulled today.
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Posted: 3/28/2006 12:54:07 PM EDT
[#22]
no tears here. never liked him, that SKS situation was unacceptable. In many ways, ammoman was the antiGrant. |
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Posted: 3/28/2006 1:10:43 PM EDT
[#23]
?!? Has this been announced elsewhere? Where? |
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Posted: 3/28/2006 1:16:00 PM EDT
[#24]
It's in the feedback forum in the thread where the dispute is. |
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Posted: 3/28/2006 1:29:03 PM EDT
[#25]
I'm going to preface my comments by saying that I think this forum (the Hometown forum on AR15.com) is one of the best things to ever happen to me a shooter. I've learned a ton from my association with this site, and I'd hate to see it go anywhere. That having been said... That doesn't make Grant's situation any better. We still have a reputable dealer pushed off of the site, likely because he voiced his own opinion. (Specualtion on my part, I don't pretend to know all of the ins and outs of the situation) Not only is that bad for Grant, his customers, the moderators and owners of this site, but it's downright unAmerican. Whether or not Grant was right or wrong, opinionated or not, it's simply wrong to silence and banish him because he has an opinion, especially when the express intent seems to be to hurt his business by keeping him off of a site with thousands of potential customers. If the owners and mods are that afraid of being sued, they should shut this whole site down right now. Who knows who might say the next thing to bring a lawsuit! |
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Posted: 3/28/2006 1:41:08 PM EDT
[#26]
ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=7&f=109&t=335943&page=1 |
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Posted: 3/28/2006 1:44:02 PM EDT
[#27]
+6 Getting rid of TRASH like Ammoman is the JOB of the Site and it's staff. Doing what they can to keep someone like Grant should be a priority and they shouldn't just throw their arms (no pun intended) up and say "oh well, he doesn't want to deal with us..." The reason he "gave up" or decided to let this go thw way it did was probably because of all of the past trouble. Had he not ever had so much trouble with DS he would probably be willing to listen to the staff more about "heated discussions." |
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Posted: 3/28/2006 1:57:09 PM EDT
[#28]
I've been letting this thread run so everyone here has a place to vent a little bit. I'm starting wonder if this was a good idea or not. All I've seen is a lot of guessing and accusations made about all of this.
I do want to correct one point for everyone here. This had nothing to do with lawsuits, or financial loss to the site. The owners of this site, do not ban people because someone threatens a lawsuit or because of other finacial reasons. We recently had a big player in the AR market threaten to leave the site because of something a member here said. They wanted that person banned from the site or they were going to leave. The owners of the site basically said that this company could take a hike before they would ban a member over something they said. In the end, the member stayed and this company stayed too. It is very rare that someone is truely banned from this site. If a member is banned, it is because they brought it upon themself. The reason for Grant's account being locked is still between him and the owners. So all this guessing really isn't doing anything but fueling the fire, and getting people worked up about stuff they don't have all the facts for. |
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Posted: 3/28/2006 2:01:43 PM EDT
[#29]
I just saw this post after I submitted my last response, and I want to address it. The owners and Site Staff do work very hard to protect the members of this site. Just because everything that is done isn't made public, this doesn't mean that this isn't being done. |
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Posted: 3/28/2006 2:05:37 PM EDT
[#30]
I think that is the frustration. Why not come out and say why? |
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Posted: 3/28/2006 2:06:46 PM EDT
[#31]
Anthony, that's about as goods a response as I could have gotten, and I respect it and understand. It's not my intent to fuel speculative fires and I believe what you're saying. However, you know as well as I do that perception becomes reality eventually. It's hard to look at what we, the unknowing, know and come to another conclusion. I kinda wish the other shoe would drop already, so I could scoot back from the edge of my seat. It's quite uncomfortable.  |
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Posted: 3/28/2006 2:19:02 PM EDT
[#32]
Great, next thing you know there won't be anymore group buys. |
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Posted: 3/28/2006 2:27:53 PM EDT
[#33]
I think that is the frustration. Why not come out and say why?[/quote]Grant can do the same thing on his forum but hasn't. Why is that? Go question him about it also. Everyone is making this out to be an AR15.com conspiracy against Grant but he isn't talking either so bare minimum both parties are suspect as to what happened. |
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Posted: 3/28/2006 2:38:45 PM EDT
[#34]
True, but Grant, AFAIK, would like to come back. It doesn't help him to air anything. Whereas, I believe, site staff could quash some of the rumors by presenting their side. Who knows, maybe they have experience to the contrary. Edited to get the quote thing right. |
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Posted: 3/28/2006 3:10:35 PM EDT
[#35]
Good because like I said, that's their (your) job! If you are doing it I'm happy. If you aren't then it will all come out in the end some day. |
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Posted: 3/28/2006 3:40:58 PM EDT
[#36]
Why didn't it work this way for Grant? This also opens up a big can of worms. Certain manufacturers have been posting complete BS for years. Now we are not aloud to throw the BS flag and ask questions? Is ARFCOM a discussion forum or infomercial? This is going have a negative effect on the very credibility of ARFCOM itself. If all a manufacturer has to do is threaten the ARFCOM owners to get an individual banned, how does that help the site? In my opinion if a company openly posts in the Tech forums looking for business they have also opened themselves up to questions and open discussion about their products. Some of these questions they might not like, but that should be part of the deal. Grant got banned because one company wanted him gone and pulled a few strings. It’s a damn disgrace. |
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Posted: 3/28/2006 3:48:48 PM EDT
[#37]
***Deleted<va-gunnut>***
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Posted: 3/28/2006 3:56:59 PM EDT
[#38]
The hard part about this is that we all know that whatever grant did, he took the high road by getting out.
Really ugly situation. Real ugly. As in everything there's good and bad here. For now, good still outweighs the bad. |
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Posted: 3/28/2006 3:57:53 PM EDT
[#39]
***Deleted<va-gunnut>***
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Posted: 3/28/2006 4:00:50 PM EDT
[#40]
First up.. thanks Anthony for giving us the opportunity to vent and get rid of some frustration. I know we all appreciate your tolerance.
I am still concerned about the why though. If G&R said that he gave a rat's ass if he can come back would show that is either a mutial or other type of departure. When he is actively saying that he is trying to get back in makes ARF look bad. Either he is a master at spinning or ?? This is only the tip of the iceberg of crap on the site though. This is Chapper's thread so I am not going to drop the pooh bomb, but I think we can all think of a bunch of issues. |
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Posted: 3/28/2006 4:06:00 PM EDT
[#41]
***Deleted<va-gunnut>***
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Posted: 3/28/2006 4:09:56 PM EDT
[#42]
Anthony, thank you for your posts. And thanks for letting this thing run.
Gotta love gossip. . . . We can't shoot anyone! |
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Posted: 3/28/2006 4:58:32 PM EDT
[#43]
I would simply ask Grant, or ask Juan. I'm not sure I see the need to make their business public without one side being able to defend themselves. |
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Posted: 3/28/2006 5:01:16 PM EDT
[#44]
From what I've seen in my time as Staff, there is nothing that troubles the owners or the Staff more, than when a member gets screwed through the EE here. Back when the Coal Creek/SEBR drama was going on, EdSr was going to pay money out of his own pocket to Armalite. He was going to use his money (not the site's money) to make sure that no one got screwed out of a rifle. This is the kind of devotion he has to our members. Here is a recent story that I was involved in. We had a new member that listed a rifle for sale, and for trade in 3 different threads here. Someone here, recognized the username from another gun board. This username had screwed 5 members of the other site; on a rifle he listed for sale there. They contacted one of our Mods, and then he passed the info along to Staff. I moved all three threads to a Mod forum, and sent an IM warning to the people who had responded in them. I also sent an IM to the individual in question to see if he was the same person. He ignored my IM, and listed the rifle again in two more threads. I then locked his account, and sent an email notification why. In the meantime, I contaced members of the other site to help get more background on the matter, and the person in question. I spent about 3hrs of my time verifying that is was indeed the same person, and he was permanently banned because of the whole thing. In the end, I got a nice request for me to come out to where he lived and get my ass kicked.  It was all worth it though, because no one here got screwed by him. Other than fellow Staff, and a few Mods, no one even knew about it. There are countless stories of our Mods and Staff working behind the scenes for our members. One of our EE Mods spent several hundred dollars on his phone bill trying to work out some EE problems to the benefit of our members. As I said earlier, there is a lot that goes on here, that no one ever sees. |
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Posted: 3/28/2006 5:04:39 PM EDT
[#45]
***Deleted<va-gunnut>***
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Posted: 3/28/2006 5:10:42 PM EDT
[#46]
I think I've already stated that Grant didn't have his account locked because a company pulled some strings. I've also stated that a manufacturer isn't going to get anyone banned here. The only thing that will get a member banned, is the member. |
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Posted: 3/28/2006 5:14:00 PM EDT
[#47]
I've just deleted the arguing out of a few posts.
I'm going to leave this thread open, but I'm not going to tolerate any pissing matches in here. |
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Posted: 3/28/2006 5:17:42 PM EDT
[#48]
Something isn't jiving with this. Are you saying one manufacturer or to be more specific one individual who owns a particular company had nothing to do with Grant being banned? |
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Posted: 3/28/2006 5:37:22 PM EDT
[#49]
I'm saying that Grant's account wasn't locked just because a manufacturer or one individual from a company wanted his account locked. Would this person have been happy that Grant's account got locked? I really don't know, but I wouldn't be surpried if he was. No matter what that person may have wanted though, it wouldn't of caused Grant to be banned from the site. |
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Posted: 3/28/2006 5:50:54 PM EDT
[#50]
Out of respect for you I'm going to let this die for tonight. I know your just trying to do your job as a staff member. |
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