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Posted: 12/16/2018 9:58:52 AM EDT
[#1]
No.
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Posted: 12/16/2018 10:04:05 AM EDT
[#2]
There is nothing barring you from selling it. As long as you did not manufacture it to sell. But you cannot ship it, if its complete it is a handgun and can only be sold to someone in your state and all state and federal laws will apply the same as any other hand gun.
I also doubt any FFL could take it in on a transfer simce there is no serial number, and its not a pre 1968 weapon, but im not sure on that. |
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Posted: 12/16/2018 10:16:55 AM EDT
[#3]
First two posts nail it. Once you finish the frame, it's now a firearm. Just like a factory Glock frame, and needs to be dealt with as such, legally speaking.
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Posted: 12/16/2018 10:32:43 AM EDT
[#4]
Agree with all the above. It must have a serial number for FFL or sell it locally to
someone who is legal to buy firearms/hand guns. ETA: it doesn't matter if there is no LPK. If you finished it, it meets criteria as a handgun |
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Posted: 12/16/2018 10:44:20 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Agree with all the above. It must have a serial number for FFL or sell it locally to someone who is legal to buy firearms/hand guns. ETA: it doesn't matter if there is no LPK. If you finished it, it meets criteria as a handgun How is it applied. Electro pencil or scratched in? I have one I will never use because I over drilled some holes and I thought my only option was to throw it away. Can you make up any serial number? Does the number have to be unique to you? |
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Posted: 12/16/2018 10:55:52 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I noticed on the new P80 there is a spot on the dust cover( same as the Glock) for a place for a serial number How is it applied. Electro pencil or scratched in? I have one I will never use because I over drilled some holes and I thought my only option was to throw it away. Can you make up any serial number? Does the number have to be unique to you? It has to be permanently engraved or stamped. I would look it up on ATF website to be sure. It's been awhile since I read up on the ATF rule. It could have changed by now. What is sure, if it's finished, it IS considered a handgun and that is what the law will will hold you accountable for. If it has never been registered and is not usable, cut it in half and trash it. |
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Posted: 12/16/2018 11:13:29 AM EDT
[#7]
How comfortable are you with going to prison over advice some randoms dudes give you? Legally, there are mines all over the place that can jam you up if you mistep.
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Posted: 12/16/2018 11:26:53 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If it has never been registered and is not usable, cut it in half and trash it. |
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Posted: 12/16/2018 2:13:36 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
it is usable, I just don't like it. I got a complete OEM frame off gunbroker for $52 yesterday. I'll just toss it in my spare parts stash for now then. Gun laws are just silly IMHO. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: If it has never been registered and is not usable, cut it in half and trash it. |
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Posted: 12/16/2018 2:32:38 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The last time I looked at the rule, it had to have (6) digits, either alpha -or- numeral or mixed.
It has to be permanently engraved or stamped. I would look it up on ATF website to be sure. It's been awhile since I read up on the ATF rule. It could have changed by now. What is sure, if it's finished, it IS considered a handgun and that is what the law will will hold you accountable for. If it has never been registered and is not usable, cut it in half and trash it. He can ship it to someone w/in his state, if his state laws allow. I don't know if USPS will ship an other - they'll ship rifles & shotguns, I believe. If selling to someone out of state, OP, you'll have to ship to their FFL. I wouldn't make a regular habit of this, btw - selling completed 80% lowers tends to grab ATF's attention, even if it is perfectly legal. |
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Posted: 12/16/2018 2:55:11 PM EDT
[#11]
Quoted:
Can I sell it or ??? If I sell it, can I ship it via USPS to an individual? It would be a bare frame with only the front block in it. No parts. |
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Posted: 12/16/2018 2:57:00 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I noticed on the new P80 there is a spot on the dust cover( same as the Glock) for a place for a serial number How is it applied. Electro pencil or scratched in? I have one I will never use because I over drilled some holes and I thought my only option was to throw it away. Can you make up any serial number? Does the number have to be unique to you? |
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Posted: 12/16/2018 3:01:18 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The rule is for manufacturers. OP is not a licensed manufactuer, he doesn't have to serialize it. He can ship it to someone w/in his state, if his state laws allow. I don't know if USPS will ship an other - they'll ship rifles & shotguns, I believe. If selling to someone out of state, OP, you'll have to ship to their FFL. I wouldn't make a regular habit of this, btw - selling completed 80% lowers tends to grab ATF's attention, even if it is perfectly legal. |
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Posted: 12/16/2018 3:03:17 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The rule is for manufacturers. OP is not a licensed manufactuer, he doesn't have to serialize it. He can ship it to someone w/in his state, if his state laws allow. I don't know if USPS will ship an other - they'll ship rifles & shotguns, I believe. If selling to someone out of state, OP, you'll have to ship to their FFL. I wouldn't make a regular habit of this, btw - selling completed 80% lowers tends to grab ATF's attention, even if it is perfectly legal. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: The last time I looked at the rule, it had to have (6) digits, either alpha -or- numeral or mixed.
It has to be permanently engraved or stamped. I would look it up on ATF website to be sure. It's been awhile since I read up on the ATF rule. It could have changed by now. What is sure, if it's finished, it IS considered a handgun and that is what the law will will hold you accountable for. If it has never been registered and is not usable, cut it in half and trash it. He can ship it to someone w/in his state, if his state laws allow. I don't know if USPS will ship an other - they'll ship rifles & shotguns, I believe. If selling to someone out of state, OP, you'll have to ship to their FFL. I wouldn't make a regular habit of this, btw - selling completed 80% lowers tends to grab ATF's attention, even if it is perfectly legal. |
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Posted: 12/16/2018 4:44:06 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You can ship a firearm to another nonlicensed person in your state. While the post office will allow nonlicensees to mail long guns to other nonlicensees in the same state, it restricts its services for handguns and pistols to FFL holders. Nonlicensees who want to ship a handgun are limited to contract carriers, which—by the way—require that you ship the gun to or through an FFL holder. Before anyone goes off, Polymer 80 frames can be built w/ a 16" bbl and a stock, thus making them rifles. Until it's assembled into a working firearm, it's not a pistol, nor a rifle. It's an "other", same as a AR lower. |
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Posted: 12/16/2018 5:05:51 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Agree with all the above. It must have a serial number for FFL or sell it locally to someone who is legal to buy firearms/hand guns. 1) Yes you can sell it. 2) No you can not mail it USPS. 3) Does not need a Serial Number to sell to FFL at the Federal Level (some states may require it). |
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Posted: 12/16/2018 5:52:24 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If it's unusable due to your mission drilling, why would you sell it to someone else? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: I noticed on the new P80 there is a spot on the dust cover( same as the Glock) for a place for a serial number How is it applied. Electro pencil or scratched in? I have one I will never use because I over drilled some holes and I thought my only option was to throw it away. Can you make up any serial number? Does the number have to be unique to you? |
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Posted: 12/16/2018 10:07:07 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No it doesn't. 1) Yes you can sell it. 2) No you can not mail it USPS. 3) Does not need a Serial Number to sell to FFL at the Federal Level (some states may require it). Any regard, it's up to seller to remain within current laws, not the forum. ETA: Hard to fathom why a 80%'er would want to sell a completed project to begin with. Not something I would choose to do personally unless it was just the parts I accumulated for the build |
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Posted: 12/16/2018 10:09:02 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The rule is for manufacturers. OP is not a licensed manufactuer, he doesn't have to serialize it. He can ship it to someone w/in his state, if his state laws allow. I don't know if USPS will ship an other - they'll ship rifles & shotguns, I believe. If selling to someone out of state, OP, you'll have to ship to their FFL. I wouldn't make a regular habit of this, btw - selling completed 80% lowers tends to grab ATF's attention, even if it is perfectly legal. |
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Posted: 12/16/2018 10:26:07 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So, your saying that if a 'completed' 80% pistol frame. or other is sold out of state, there is no serial number required??? |
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Posted: 12/16/2018 11:05:52 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I was referring to out of state sale. I should've been more explicit. |
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Posted: 12/17/2018 7:56:23 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: In the OP's case, it's not a handgun - yet. Not clear if USPS will ship an "other". Before anyone goes off, Polymer 80 frames can be built w/ a 16" bbl and a stock, thus making them rifles. Until it's assembled into a working firearm, it's not a pistol, nor a rifle. It's an "other", same as a AR lower. |
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Posted: 12/17/2018 8:51:48 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
An 80% AR RECEIVER is different than a completed P80 handgun receiver, which is treated like a stripped glock frame. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: In the OP's case, it's not a handgun - yet. Not clear if USPS will ship an "other". Before anyone goes off, Polymer 80 frames can be built w/ a 16" bbl and a stock, thus making them rifles. Until it's assembled into a working firearm, it's not a pistol, nor a rifle. It's an "other", same as a AR lower. |
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Posted: 12/17/2018 10:19:56 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: An 80% AR RECEIVER is different than a completed P80 handgun receiver, which is treated like a stripped glock frame. |
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Posted: 12/17/2018 10:29:27 AM EDT
[#25]
OP, If you are in MI and its completed.. You need to destroy or register it as now its considered a handgun... I built a P80 earlier this year and did much research on the matter.... I did laser engrave a serial on mine but it is NOT required in MI although they will not like it at all... To sell properly it must be registered! You can still register without a serial, just put N/A and yourself as the manufacturer.. Remember, If its completed (milled out and no parts) and you do not reg it you ARE in violation! If I was you I would just destroy verses forgetting about it and getting into a mess by accident later..100 is NOT worth it! BTW states laws vary and MI laws are specific on this matter...
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Posted: 12/17/2018 10:34:10 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No, it's not. A receiver is a receiver, regardless of what type of firearm it's for or could become. A stripped Glock frame, an AR receiver, and a completed P80 are all treated exactly the same. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted: In the OP's case, it's not a handgun - yet. Not clear if USPS will ship an "other". Before anyone goes off, Polymer 80 frames can be built w/ a 16" bbl and a stock, thus making them rifles. Until it's assembled into a working firearm, it's not a pistol, nor a rifle. It's an "other", same as a AR lower. |
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Posted: 12/17/2018 10:43:58 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Not true in MI.. While a AR receiver is considered a weapon it can be freely sold... In MI a handgun MUST be registered to be sold and transferred. |
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Posted: 12/17/2018 10:47:33 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Federally it's not a handgun til it's built as one. Can Michigan prove OP never intended it to build it as a Glock carbine w/ 16" bbl & stock?  
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Posted: 12/17/2018 10:52:01 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Not true in MI.. While a AR receiver is considered a weapon it can be freely sold... In MI a handgun MUST be registered to be sold and transferred. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted: In the OP's case, it's not a handgun - yet. Not clear if USPS will ship an "other". Before anyone goes off, Polymer 80 frames can be built w/ a 16" bbl and a stock, thus making them rifles. Until it's assembled into a working firearm, it's not a pistol, nor a rifle. It's an "other", same as a AR lower. |
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Posted: 12/17/2018 11:48:33 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You're failing to understand that a receiver is just that. It's not a handgun until built as one. Under MI law a receiver isn't even a firearm. |
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Posted: 12/17/2018 12:05:51 PM EDT
[#31]
I never fail to be amazed on this board,,, Someone always steps in and the bar goes up!
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Posted: 12/17/2018 1:48:50 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Right, so for the sake of argument, who's to say this chunk of plastic isn't just a toy/airsoft gun? It's not serialized. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
You're failing to understand that a receiver is just that. It's not a handgun until built as one. Under MI law a receiver isn't even a firearm. |
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Posted: 12/17/2018 1:55:22 PM EDT
[#33]
and that's why one should never seek legal advice on arfcom.
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Posted: 12/17/2018 3:09:00 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Why don't you pop on over to MI and test your freedom for us? Let me know how wrong I was after! |
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Posted: 12/17/2018 3:14:40 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I've got time over Christmas, a Poly 80 receiver that needs drilling, and my LGS has a 16" Glock bbl & stock. Buy that for me & pay my gas to & from and we have a deal. |
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Posted: 12/17/2018 3:33:23 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I've got time over Christmas, a Poly 80 receiver that needs drilling, and my LGS has a 16" Glock bbl & stock. Buy that for me & pay my gas to & from and we have a deal. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: Why don't you pop on over to MI and test your freedom for us? Let me know how wrong I was after! |
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Posted: 12/17/2018 3:33:41 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Oh come on. Tell him the truth. Nobody from Texas gives a shit about gun laws in Michigan. I do care about Massachusetts and Connecticut gun laws, though. Connecticut presents some interesting challenges for ARs, mostly resolved through rotation. |
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Posted: 12/17/2018 3:35:56 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So you actually want me to pay you to act all retarded an attempt to go to Jail? DEAL! If you let me video you doing it!@ It will be a classic! How are the roads up there? Never driven in serious snow. |
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Posted: 12/17/2018 4:42:06 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Do you actually have to register rifles up there too? How do they deal w/ an out-of-stater building a semi-auto rifle in Michigan? Shoot me an IM if you're serious. How are the roads up there? Never driven in serious snow. |
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Posted: 12/17/2018 4:56:24 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Do you actually have to register rifles up there too? How do they deal w/ an out-of-stater building a semi-auto rifle in Michigan? Shoot me an IM if you're serious. How are the roads up there? Never driven in serious snow. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: So you actually want me to pay you to act all retarded an attempt to go to Jail? DEAL! If you let me video you doing it!@ It will be a classic! How are the roads up there? Never driven in serious snow. |
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Posted: 12/17/2018 10:16:34 PM EDT
[#41]
This thread could go 5 stars !
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Posted: 12/17/2018 11:46:17 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No registration for rifles! Only handguns... The roads are not for southerners... You will panic and kill yourself! <joking! Driving in snow is easy if you don't drive like a maniac... I dont think it matters for rifles if you are out of state.. You still need a background check @ an FFL for the lower though.. Unless of course you buy it private! OR build an 80% |
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Posted: 12/18/2018 10:48:37 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I noticed on the new P80 there is a spot on the dust cover( same as the Glock) for a place for a serial number How is it applied. Electro pencil or scratched in? I have one I will never use because I over drilled some holes and I thought my only option was to throw it away. Can you make up any serial number? Does the number have to be unique to you? |
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Posted: 12/20/2018 10:00:23 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm not buying OP's lower - I said I had a Polymer 80 lower of my own ready to drill. If you want me to drive to Michigan to demonstrate to you that it's perfectly legal to build an unserialized rifle out of a Polymer 80 lower, I will, but you're buying me the 16" bbl, stock, & paying for my gas. Residents of all other states can bring and use pistols all day every day without registration, even carrying concealed with valid permits. You could build that P80 frame into a pistol without worrying about the registration, let alone a rifle. That aside, since the OP confirmed it functioned fine, I'm going to assume it was assembled at one point. And since the easiest, most common, assembly would be a pistol, I think it is highly likely that it would need registered or destroyed at this point. |
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