The FN 509 is nice. I also really like the FNX.

But why is FN the company we don't give a shit about enough to buy stuff from? I'm guilty as anyone. Love their stuff but.....Meh

I used to own an FNP 45.  It was a very early one and had trouble cycling JHPs.  Gone.

Still have an FNX 9.  It's a good, solid, accurate pistol, but so are just about everyone else's modern products, so it really doesn't stand out from the crowd in any real way.  If they had made sure that all their later model magazines were interchangeable, and kept prices somewhat realistic I may have purchased one of the striker fired versions, but, nope.  They really don't care much for the civilian/LE market, they survive and thrive on the DoD teat.  They don't need us, and it shows.

Same. I think they cater to the .gov market

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As far as handguns go they didn’t do themselves a lot of favors. Had lots of changes and usually had pretty high prices. Aftermarket never stepped up because they were afraid FN would move on and invalidate them. They could have beat CZ to the modern DA/SA market certainly the polymer variants. They were slow to adapt with several platforms. Even the SPR rifles which were almost universally well received were kind of left to flounder. No 6.5 Creedmoor or 260 I don’t even think they did threaded barrels and if they did it wasn’t on all models.

They have no real brand identity when it comes to handguns because they are constantly discontinuing and replacing their pistols. Like Ruger but double the price.

By the time Hornady started pushing Creedmoor on the masses the SPRs were already well on their way out.

Shame, wish I would have bought some of the barreled actions when CDNN was closing them out.

I've owned two SPRs. Wish I had kept one of them.

Yeah that’s why I threw 260 in there. I wish I would have grabbed a few actions for sure.

That’s why I don’t want to get rid of mine. I don’t shoot it much anymore but it’s a cool gun.

I don't really think FN cares what they put out.  Just look at their 15 shades/colors of FDE on the SCAR.  If that doesn't look like Billy Bob's parts gun, I don't know what does.

Tony

I'm not a SCAR fan to begin with but the OCD in me wouldn't take a tan one for free. I would however begrudgingly accept one in black.

I hate them for destroying winchester. I grew up on 94s and 1300s. The bastards bought the company then discontinued the 1300 and moved all production over seas. Now they sell "defender" shotguns made in turkey for more than I ever paid for a 1300. I have no use for FN.

ETA: what they did to American workers is like publicly sodomising ronald reagan and John wayne in front of america. Get how I feel about FN?

I honestly love the different shades of tan on the SCAR. Maybe I'm alone there...

They have become Colt.... Fat and happy making Rifles/Carbines and belt feds for Uncle Sugar...

the rest.... they just half ass it...Wait until someone takes all there work from them, then they'll scramble like Colt to chase after the civilian market.

Nope, you're not alone. I'd choose the tan over the black of I was in the market for one. I love for it looks, and the purpose of it is to break up the lined of the rifle to make it less distinguishable. Most SCARs I've seen that people spend their money on where the tan version, some manufacturers offer their pistols in different shades of tan including FN, Beretta, CZ, etc, many AR owners have mimiced the SCAR color scheme, and Geissele even follows the same logic as the FN SCAR with their mitch match FDE products.

We are for form alone. If it wasn't selling or popular, manufacturers would have did away with it a long time ago.

It's because they spent years shunning civilian gun owners. Like Colt, they only cared about selling to us AFTER the government well started to dry up. By then, they were befine the game. They were just another fish in a crowded sea that offered nothing over the competition. Not only that, they were ridiculously over priced out the gate. Why spend a premium for a FN when there were a plethora of other options on the market with a long track record, more aftermarket support, and for a cheaper or simular price? Their pistols excess at nothing, and do not standout.

For me...QC issues. My FNX-9 has a horrible false reset. My SCAR-17S had a bad crown that caused 8-10” groups with 168gr FGMM at 100 yds.

1960s
FN stopped making motorcycles, but developed its aeronautics and space business with the assembly of aircraft engines, in collaboration with leading engine makers throughout the world, such as Rolls-Royce.

1970s
FN officially changed its name from Fabrique Nationale d’Armes de Guerre to Fabrique Nationale Herstal, and acquired Browning in the USA.

1980s
Fabrique Nationale Herstal continued to grow with the opening of manufacturing facilities in the US to service a growing military customer base in North America in 1981. Soon after, however, a drastic restructuring plan started in Belgium. Société Générale de Belgique decided to sell FN.
In 1989, Fabrique Nationale was rebranded FN Herstal, and together with Browning International (Hunting and Shooting), became the newly founded Herstal Group, mainly owned by French Giat Industries.
The same year, the Group took over the reins of US Repeating Arms Company (USRAC) based in New Haven, Connecticut, to produce licensed Winchester guns. The brand name, however, was retained by Olin Corporation.

1990s
1997 was a significant milestone for the Herstal Group as it was sold by Giat Industries to the Walloon Region of Belgium, who became the sole shareholder. New strategy and new policy resulted in both FN Herstal and Browning developing and expanding their respective product lines while keeping firearms at the core of their business. This is still the Group’s policy today.
At the end of the 1990s, FN Herstal opened an additional US subsidiary, FNH USA, dedicated to the development, marketing and sale of firearms to North America’s defense and law enforcement services along with the commercial market.

2000s
The Herstal Group engages in a redeploymnet program of its product portfolios keeping firearms as a central element.
USRAC factory closed down in the second part of the decade, but Browning continued producing rifles and shotguns under the Winchester brand license (which is owned by Olin Corporation) at its own production facilities for delivery around the globe.
In 2008, the Ars Mechanica Foundation was born to preserve, develop and share the Herstal Group’s rich heritage.

2010s
The Herstal Group pursues its redeployment program and reinforces its worldwide presence through newly acquired subsidiaries. In 2011, FN Herstal purchased Finnish company Noptel, which is specialized in laser range finding technology. When celebrating its 125th anniversary in 2014, FN Herstal also acquired UK based Manroy (now FNH UK) and consolidated its two US-based subsidiaries, FN Manufacturing and FNH USA, into a single entity, FN America.
Both the Defense/Security and Hunting/Sport Shooting businesses of the Herstal Group continue to innovate to provide customers around the world with a complete range of state-of-the art, groundbreaking small caliber firearms, ammunition and associated solutions.

Why is FN that big company that no one cares about?

Mostly because FN is that big company that doesn't care about the civilian market.  They make decent product just like everyone else, and overprice the bejesus out of it.  And being an overpriced G'vt contractor, people think their stuff is somehow elite and supreme.  Not really, the worst POS barrel I have, is my FN CL CHF barrel that everyone swoons over.  

Speak for yourself.  I have a FNX 45 tactical, FN509 tactical, and a FN M16A4 (clone).  I have a few PSA ARs with FN barrels.  I have the AK-E which in an AK with an FN produced barrel.  They make good stuff and I'd love to buy more.
But you gotta pay that FN tax.  Mags on their handguns are $50 a pop on a good day.

SCAR is cool and all, but spare parts are few and far between.  And a spare bolt carrier setup will run you like $900.  Wanna swap to a short barrel?  $1500.

This.

They're as arrogant as H&K but without the quality. FN could've become THE handgun mfgr but instead they muck around on the lower tier (as far as sales, not quality) like Ruger or Taurus.

Sad part is, they make GD good guns. I own a FXP in 9mm, a 5.7 and a PS90. Love them all, accurate as hell. Their marketing sucks balls as well, IMO.

FN made rifles.  Mauser pattern and others.

Aftet the early 1900's Browning pocket pistols era and through into the 2000 century, FN made and sold rifles to governments.

After WW2, for the USGov, they rebuilt 1-2 million Garands and M1 Carbines in the ETO.

Throughout the 1900's, they made:
Mauser pattern bolt action rifles,
FN High Power pistols, and
FN FAL rifles.

The FN 9mm pistol and the FAL rifle were the world standard outside the ComBloc countries and remained so until the M16 was licensed to foreign manufacture or given away by the USGov.

Colt began making poor quality over priced M16's and FN built an American factory for the M16 which added belt feds or vice versa and who knows what else including Winchester as it died.

The pistols you are worrying about were never and are not Jack Manure to FN.  The point is well taken that they manage their modern pistols poorly.

BUT.  Note FN exists today just fine.  

In comparison, Colt is a joke of its former self, Winchester is gone, Remington is gone, H&R is gone, and Beretta is thriving but lost the USDOD pistol to SIG which is now more American that European closing some of its European manufacturing facilities.

FN and Colt make a mediocre product to military specs, and have/had military contracts. That's the overwhelming main reason why a small demographic in the civilian maket are obsessed with them, and why they have higher retail and resale value. It's why they are collectibles. If it wasn't for that, they'd be bankrupt a long time ago because they would not have sold well in the civilian market at those prices.

I'm not a fan of either company, and it seems that neigher company caters to or really cares about the civilian market. Both companies basically in a large part just sells us their government contract overruns when it comes to their overpriced rifles and barrels.

The most popular handguns on the market are either extremely affordable budget pistols, duty grade pistols with L.E./Military lineage, or are expensive high quality beautique pistols. FN doesn't really fit in or excell in any of those categories when it comes to their handguns. For the same money, there are just so many other options that I and most others would rather spend their money on. Doesn't mean that their pistols suck. It just means their business model sucks, and they missed the boat.

Yea and around that same time, their quality started to go to hell. They are only the same company by name only.

I remember being at the tri gun challenge at DPMS and seeing the F2000 and the p90  at the age of 14, I was competing but I asked the rep if I could try it out (it was a range day so you could test stuff out, reps gave a mag to just about anybody) The rep said sure, just a few people ahead of you . . . . I stood there and watched a dozen people get mags before I asked again to be given the same answer. This went on for half an hour before I walked away really embarrased and angry.

Yeah I know its silly but I have never quite gotten over that. Dude shoulda just said "sorry kid, adults only" or something.

So Sig quality is about to tank further?  Oof....

We didn't do many levers from them but the 1300's never sold well for us. A lot of the bolt guns from that era were pretty crappy unlike the ones after FN took over which were much much better. Some people think the FN Winchester 70's are the best there have ever been.

I'm with Tony they look clownshoes. The worst were the first batch that were almost a shiny gold anodizing. They actually tried to sell them as a limited run like they had done it on purpose but it was just them trying to figure out tan anodizing.

I like the FN guns I have, but as mentioned they cycle through their pistols way TOO fast.
"Hey here is this 15rd double stack FNP-45Tactical" "Ohh we didn't take into consideration civilian market ammo may have different OAL variances, and now the mags can get jammed up"
Owner "What should I do"?
FN "Ohh you should upgrade to the FNX-45T. We just came out with it to replace the FNP series."
Owner "I love the threaded barrel barrel, RMR cut, night sights on the FNP/X-45T, can we get an FNX-9 Tactical"?
FN "No, We now sell the FNS9 series"
Owner "Does it have the tactical features"?
FN "No, but now you can buy the 509T, with those features! We are going to finally have aftermarket support"
Owner "Okay can you tell me who's making parts"?
FN "Ohh Just APEX. We also have this 503 we came out with that's single stack."

FN FiveSeven Owner "Hey can get a threaded barrel, better trigger or a cut slide cover for optic, or more ammo"
Fn ......................................................

Ruger "Hey we came out with a licensed copy of the Fn Five-Seven at 30% less"
Mag ext, magazine releases, optic plates, slide stop, Trigger(s), and threaded barrel are available a mere year after original release
FN Advertisements for the FN "We OG"

Meh...you shot that SCAR suppressed?  We are annotating the serial number and voiding your warranty. Thank you.

They only did it by purchasing Winchester and Browning, aka just like Cerubus bought Remington and all the other gun companies, that worked out so well for them...
Like they sold a lot of Semi auto M249's....and all of there shit was wayyyyy overpriced...

I got to handle the p90 at a Army Guard convention in Milwaukee back in 1999. FN was trying to market the gun as a PDW for the Military, geared to folks like tank/vehicle crews and support personnel. Uncle Sam was not interested. (Anyone remember the KAC PDW that looked like a mini M4Carbine)

The SCAR L is pretty much dead to Uncle Sam, so there selling them to the Civvies at a stupid price of $2500 plus... FN 2000 was a Boat anchor...
That plant in Columbia SC went up for one reason... for .Gov contracts.

Who remembers the FN polymer pistols where the mag well turned to rubber in the hot sun....

FN has never struck me as a company that is first and foremost chasing after the Civilian market. Because that market is fickle and hard to gauge.

Miroku, Japan
X-Bolt bolt action centerfire
AB3 bolt action centerfire
BPS slide action shotgun
Citori over and under
Citori 725 over and under
Cynergy over and under
BT-99 trap shotgun
Gold 10 gauge shotgun
BLR lever action
T-Bolt rimfire
BL-22 rimfire
22-SA rimfire

Custom Gun Shop
John M. Browning Collection shotguns
Belgium, assembled in Portugal
BAR, all versions

Salt Lake City, Utah
Buck Mark .22 caliber pistol
Buck Mark .22 caliber rifle
1911-22 pistol
1911-380 pistol

Viana, Portugal
Maxus shotgun
A5 shotgun
Silver shotgun

Never said I assumed where Browning's are all made.

Love FN all you want, it's a free country.

I've owned Japanese made A-bolts and still have a Utah made Buck mark.
They make little that interest's me.

Who wants to buy a handgun that will be discontinued and unsupported by the time you get home from the gun store?

Plus the whole fails when wet thing just proves they're still going the opposite direction in handgun designs. The HP was great for it's time, but FN is a one hit wonder with handguns the past century.

Ummmmmmmmmm........

FNH doesn't care about the civilian market. We're just another source of sugar after Uncle Sugar kiboshed most of their .mil contract aspirations. Their civilian market output is pretty abysmal, and not much is coming out of FN America.

Extremely isolated incident which was rectified.

I wish I would have picked up an FNX9 before the world went down the tubes.?  Fits my hands nicely.

I know next to nothing at all about FNH, but I've never in my life even glanced at an FN product and thought, for even a second, that I want one.  Ever.  

Haven't spent much time around belt feds I take it?

Because their pistols are so mediocre that not even the people that get hard ons for mil contract companies want them. Honestly if it wasn’t for the contracts FNH would probably be completely irrelevant.

They also don’t give a flying fuck about the civilian market and never really have which is probably biting them in the ass right now with all the contracts they’re losing.

All of those guns you lost were either made for military contracts or solicitations and sold to the civilian market as an afterthought.

I won’t argue about HK not caring about the civilian market either, because they clearly don’t, probably even more so than FNH. At least HK makes some decent guns though.

Yeah I like some of their stuff, especially their older stuff. Like the Browning Hi-Power, discontinued... FN FAL also discontinued... Newer stuff the FNX-45 Tactical and SCAR 17 are pretty sweet. I bought a FNP-45 Tactical and like it a lot. Might get a SCAR 17 one day...

Yep. P90 and FSN were made for the NATO PDW requirement that was never finalized because of H&K/Germany's disagreement with NATO choosing FN. FNP-45T was for some military contract bid. Same with the 509 series.

HK can't import their rifles, thank Bush 1 for that.  Look at the abortions that are the SL8 and USC.  I know some have called for them to just move production stateside but I wouldn't have any interest in a US-made HK.

I guess an ideal solution would be to do what IWI's stateside subsidiary does with the Tavors, import essentially complete guns and then swap out whatever is necessary to appease 922r.  I wonder if they have any market research on how viable that would be.

Who knows how the German government would respond with their retarded export laws.