There's been no indication that I've seen which indicates these are a limited run, but from the way that SIG drops & changes models, I'd suggest prioritizing if you can. They'll probably discontinue them and come out with an 'improved' M17-A1 and M18-A1 which are nothing like the USGI pistols.

Yes.  I was told they were no plans to produce any more.  They asked for my serial number before they would talk to me.  

Regards

I’m concerned that you two are secret Proven Arms employees about to convince me to spend another 700 bucks…

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Well, I broke down and ordered one. I got concerned about them selling out (even though they've been available for over six months). Sometimes I think SIG is telling us these were a one time only, limited run pistol just to make sure we snatch them up, but I'm glad I had the chance to get one. Apologies to those of you that aren't able to purchase these directly. I'm not sure what the true reasoning is, but when I discussed it with my FFL, he thought that SIG may be concerned that the heavier slide and recoil spring on the military models will cause people who shoot cheaper, underpowered ammo to think there's something wrong with the pistols and send them in for unnecessary warranty work. I could believe that, but I think it's probably also that they released such a small number of these that it was some deal with their big law enforcement dealers (Proven Arms and Osage County), and they limited distribution so they wouldn't all sell out in a month. One other thing my FFL mentioned is that although he doesn't personally qualify for the LE/MIL purchase and can't order from Proven Arms as a dealer, he thinks that SIG will sell him an LE model directly as a certified NRA instructor (limited to one per year). That may be an option for some people out there, but I don't know how that works.

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Another thread prompted me to do a comparison of the military and commercial models like I did with the M17, so I thought I'd share my observations here too. I had kind of assumed the commercial and military M18s were basically the same except for the markings, barrel, and rear sights, but they actual differ in a couple other ways like the M17s. It looks to me like the military version is designed for heavier use with higher powered ammo, while the commercial model was lightened up a bit to accommodate different ammo loads, like the commercial M17. I'm curious if other P320 models look similar to the commercial M18, as I don't own any others.

Here are a few photos comparing the military production M18 to my black commercial P320-M18. The slides look similar from above, with the exception of the flat area for the front sight, which is a little longer on the commercial model, and the rear sights, of course. You can see how the military barrel's breech block tapers inward more towards the loaded chamber indicator, just like on the M17. The military slide and pre-tensioned barrel interface is tighter, causing that slight hang up / hitch if you ride the slide forward, just like on the military M17.

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Note how the front end of the commercial slide is hollowed out more than the military one, which has straight inner walls the length of the slide back to the chamber. The silver ramp(?) in the middle of the slide to the rear of the breach face (which I think is what resets the striker) is also wider on the military model. The same is true on the M17, but I didn't notice it when comparing those.

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The barrels differ in the same way as the M17s, with the military production version (top) having the SIG CAGE code and part number stamped on the side.

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The recoil spring assemblies are different (military is on top in this photo). The military version has a longer cylinder inside the spring with a flat coil spring over that portion, and the spring around the internal piston at the rear of the assembly is made of braided wire, rather than the normal wire on the commercial version.

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I personally can't tell the difference between the weight of the two springs when I cycle the slides. The military version maybe feels slightly heavier, but not significantly. On the M17, it's very obvious that the commercial model has a lighter spring and slide, as it was much easier to cycle until I replaced the spring with the standard full size P320 spring.

I shot 100 rounds of Winchester M1152 through my commercial M18, and I could tell that the recoil impulse was stronger than my M17 due to the shorter, lighter slide. I'm curious to see how it feels with the military M18, having not had the chance to shoot it yet. Having said that, I have no concerns about shooting NATO spec or +P ammo through the commercial M18. It definitely has a stronger spring than the commercial M17 came with, and mine functions and feels fine after 1,000 rounds of various types of quality factory ammo. My black M18 will be my carry pistol going forward.

The beefier military model is appealing, but this does make me wonder if it will be possible to get a replacement for that version of the recoil spring assembly. The commercial spring should work fine, but I'd prefer to get the same type of spring when the time comes.

Apparently what's up with these M18s is that if you list one at Rock Island Auction and you get people bidding who don't have a clue, it can sell for $4400.

https://www.rockislandauction.com/detail/88/416/us-military-contract-overrun-sig-sauer-m18-pistol

Whoever bought that could have bought 6 from Proven for that price.

I was browsing GB and came across this stock image in a couple M18 listings. I thought it was odd that it shows a military production slide with the shorter rear sights that mount with the single screw, but the slide has commercial P320-M18 markings. Does anyone know if a version like this ever existed? I'm guessing it's just a stock image of a prototype / test pistol that SIG put together early on when they started producing the commercial version of the pistol. Just thought it was curious.

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Another one of these just sold yesterday… for $4,113. Crazy. It’s almost enough to make me want to send them my unfired M18, but I like it too much.

Overrun SIG Sauer M18 Pistol with Box

I can't believe I just threw $3300 away by taking mine to the range. And that 'overrun' M9 was surely worth the same, right?

Damn, “sucker born every moment”, comes to mind….
Ugh. Why do people have to ruin a good thing.
Cp

I always thought it was a little odd that the Army selected the M17 / M18 combo with the same grip, so the only significant difference between the two pistols is 0.8 inches of barrel and slide length and the associated weight. I know it was to maximize compatibility with magazines and grip modules, but it seems to defeat the purpose of designing a modular handgun. I like the M18 but wanted something that was a little more different, so I thought I’d try the XCompact grip. The 15-round grip length improves concealability a little, and the XSeries grip just looks so much better. This is what I’d have liked to see the Army pick.

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The grip feels great in my hands, and the different profile on the sides of the beaver tail not only makes the safety much easier to reach than on the XCarry grip, it also just feels better in the web of my hand, being narrower at that point. I’m really not sure why SIG designed the larger grips the way they did, but I’d love to see them update them to match the XCompact. My M18 feels much better than my M17 with its XCarry grip because of that small design change. As much as I like the Wilson Combat grip, I think I’m going to keep this one like this and get it out to the range sometime soon.

Love this concept brother , well done.

Cp

Thanks! I still haven't had a chance to shoot the M18 yet, but I really love the feel of the XCompact grip. I like how the XCarry grip looks, but I love how the XCompact feels. I like the M18 XCompact so much that I'm tempted to get a second one as a backup, but I really better get out and shoot this one a bit before considering that.

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I think most people know about the difference in the shape of the beavertail on the two grips, with how SIG removed the material on the sides of the XCompact beavertail. The XCompact grip design makes it much more comfortable to reach the manual safety, but even without the safety, I think the slimmer profile at the top of the grip is much more comfortable. Here's a comparison of the two, with the M17 / XCarry grip on the left and the M18 / XCompact on the right.

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I'd really like to see SIG redesign the XCarry grip to match the XCompact, but I doubt they have any real incentive to do that.

Hail the Swami of things SiG!

I wouldn't mind it as long as they keep the beaver tail profile the same.

Is the quality of the commercial M18s inferior to the military issued version?  Never thought to ask because I thought they were identical but I guess they are not.

In for the answer.

I would say no it is not inferior, this based off of mine which is one of the first batch made, plenty of rounds shot through it and it is daily carried every day.

I’ll second this …. It’s just different ….. a little , and different optics options.
I would never give up my civie version for a .mil version only because you do have more optics options.

Cp

I have an Sig M18 Commemorative and it has a slightly different slide from these LE models.

ETA: I’ll explain in more detail, but it appears these Proven M18s are entirely different part number and thus are not built on the same line as the military M18s. They are similar, but there are some differences.

Proven M18 POW PN: 13067088-1

US DoD M18 PN: 13087088-1

The main difference is the angles on the milling of the slide and the finish itself. People should stop calling these pistols “military overruns” because they definitely aren’t, they are completely different pistols. I think there is language in the DoD contract specifically stating Sig is not allowed to sell these to the public outside of the initial 5000 commemorative run from 2021.

Hope this helps!

I was first in line for the Black Friday Sale at the Marine Corps Exchange, Camp Lejeune today

My out the door price for the M18 was $562 with all the discounts

I also got a great deal on the Mk25

I’m afraid it appears you’re comparing a commemorative pistol, which is traditionally a commercial “replica” of a military weapon, to the “military production” M18, when you should be comparing it to the real issued pistols. For starters, from a quick web search, it looks like the commemorative pistols have an M18-series serial number, while the actual military pistols and the ones sold by Proven Arms (and others) have TC-series serial numbers.

Digging a little more for photos of actual military pistols, when you can read it, the part number on the slide is 13067088-1, matching the military production pistols sold by Proven Arms. One thing to consider is that part numbers this close to each other would normally be assigned sequentially, so 13067088-1 is an earlier part number than 13087088-1, meaning the commemorative pistol was assigned the number later than the military production pistols. From what I can tell, the commemorative pistols also have coyote brown controls like the original prototype pistols, not black like the full rate production military issued pistols.

Here’s the best photo example I found online of a military issued pistol, taken at Wright Patterson AFB. You can clearly read the 13067088-1 part number:

M18 Pistol

DVIDS is a military public affairs database. This one is a little fuzzy, but you can see that the fourth digit is the part number looks a little different from the 88 at the end, because it’s a 6:

2nd SFS switch to M18

Another DVIDS photo showing the TC serial number:

NAS Kingsville getting new pistol

Looking at the M17 for additional comparison, you can see the part number on this issued pistol in another DVIDS phot reads 13067008-1, matching the ‘“military production” pistols sold by Proven Arms:

AFNORTH Soldiers train with new M17 Pistol

Military production M17 slide from Proven Arms on top:

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You can also see in this article that the original surplus M17s that were issued, returned to SIG, and sold to the public bear the same 13067008-1 part number as the Proven Arms slide:

Now’s Your Chance To Get A Surplus M17 MHS Pistol from SIG SAUER

Of course, we can also ask some members who are still serving down on the line if they can share photos of current issue M18s. I’ll ask in the M17/M18 military photo thread.

Excellent! I’ll have to sniff around at my local MCX. AAFES stores don’t carry those. That’s a great deal too.

That is a sweet deal!

Interesting, I wonder if Sig revised the design of the M18 slide around the time they were adopted? The milling angles are clearly different on the commemorative run which was indeed intended to be identical to the pattern accepted by the DoD, which originally had brown controls like the M17s did. Looks like I’ll need to buy one of the Proven M18s as well so I can have both types.

Here's what I'm talking about, look at the downward angle milled on the side of the slide with grip serrations. The angle is steeper on the commemorative slide. Also, the early commemorative has 7 serration cuts vs 6 on the newer ones.

M18 Commemorative



M18 POW from Proven

Should have just gone with the X Series serrations.

It looks to me like the commemorative slide is a hybrid of the military and commercial M18. The slide angles / cuts appear to match my commercial M18 slide, but it has the one screw cover plate of the military slide. I’ll post a comparison photo tonight.

Interesting, can't believe I've never noticed this before. So I guess Sig was not being truthful when they said these were identical to the military M18

The government issued M-17 and M-18 have the same PN and serial number prefix is those sold by Proven Arms.  

Regards

Ok, I figured out the commemorative details. They are direct copies of the trials XM-17 pistols that were tested and won the contract. The compact XM-17 is identical to the M18 Commemorative. Here is a photo published by the Army in 2017. I wonder what necessitated the changes to the slide between then and when the M18s started being delivered to the military?



Actual trial pistols:

Here's a comparison of the commemorative M18 and a black commercial M18 slide. It looks to me like they're identical except for the rear sight / cover plate.


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I worked a little bit in Army requirements development for acquisition programs - on combat vehicles, not small arms, but I worked alongside some of the guys involved in the MHS program. To me, this looks like revisions that were made after initial testing and feedback from end users. I suspect that SIG submitted their commercial P320 slide design, or maybe they designed the slides specifically for the MHS competition (I don't know which came first, the MHS or X-Series). The pistols went through the selection process and came out on top, but through the testing or user feedback, they made some revisions before going into production. That's very common in the acquisition process.

I'm totally speculating here, but maybe some post-test analysis of the slides showed fatigue from the extending testing with NATO spec ammo, so they beefed up the slides a little by not trimming off as much of a bevel on the sides. Or they decided to add a little weight to the slide to optimize the weight for reliable cycling. During the limited user test (LUT) where they issue the prototypes out to Soldiers for about a month of field testing, maybe someone commented that the slide serrations didn't feel as comfortable as they could be, so they adjusted the angle of them a little. It could be a number of different types of feedback that went into small revisions in the production version of the pistols. As a real world example, I was involved with a combat vehicle design that had over 20 revisions to details ranging from crew seats to driver's controls to hatches based on Soldier feedback, between the original prototypes and the production model. The vendors work pretty hard to make revisions directed by the government before going into production.

This makes sense. I’m surprised Sig released a copy of the trials prototype to the public instead of a copy of the actual pistol going to the DoD, I guess it’s just another variant to collect. The M17 commemorative version does not appear to have any differences from the final M17 aside from the PVD coated controls. I prefer the brown controls and I was able to get both commemorative models for $700 each, so that was a no-brainer.

Speaking with one of the unit evaluators provides some insight.

The M17/M18 Modular Handgun System requirements called for complete, turn-key systems to include holsters, grips, cleaning kits and accessories, and ammunition.  The Army tested two types provided by SIG (as specified requirements):  XM1152 (115-grain flat-nose Ball) and XM1153 (147-grain Hollow Points).

XM1153 proved exceptionally reliable and precise, while flat-point Ball was just OK.

XM17 was adopted in January 2017 and fielded to the 101st Airborne Division in November 2017.

Surprise -- service 9mm ammunition in the force was M882 NATO Ball -- and it didn't feed nor group as well as the two ammunition types the Army tested ... but was what the Army had/has.  One of the reasons the original pistols were pulled and replaced with new.

M17/M18 9mm Ball was still not approved for Service use in March 2020.

The Army bought NO M17/M18 ammo in FY 2021.

The Army bought 28,742,288 M17/M18 rounds in FY 2022 at $.23 a cartridge.

The Army bought NO 9mm for the M17/M18 in FY 2023.

For FY 2024 (starting 1 October 2023) the Army will buy a little over $6.5 million in new M17/M18 ammo, 24,377,968 rounds at $.23 each.

Interesting info - thanks for posting.

As I did with my M9, I broke my M18 in with M882 and it had no issues feeding through multiple magazines and seems to be as accurate as I am. I still haven't fired my M17 Surplus pistols but maybe they'll make it to the range this week while I'm off. I know the M17s shipped from SIG with two guide rod/recoil spring assemblies - one for "standard" ammo and one for the higher energy ammo designed for them, and I suppose that the wrong spring weight could affect performance.

I picked up 500rds of the Winchester M1152 a while ago and may have to break that out to compare performance and accuracy. M1153 isn't commonly available, but I'll gladly to take any donations prior to scheduling my next range trip.

If you really want some, I posted here about the stuff you can get from SGAmmo. I haven’t had a chance to shoot mine yet but plan to test it in my military production M17 and M18.

My Version of the M17X and M18X. My other M17X is a POW like the 18 pictured above. Just don’t have a pic handy of it.

Cp

Are the models for sale at Proven Arms capable of mounting the Romeo M17?  It's confusing.

Yes, the M17 POW or M18 POW will.  

Regards

Is there a 100.00  difference between the CA and the POW model? Looking at picking one of these up. MIL/LE pricing shows the POW model for 100 more….

I would pay the extra $100.00 for the POW.

Well count me in the club. I found this wonderful thread and didn't even know the POW models were an option, being a vet I just had to have one! Thank you to Proven Arms & Outfitters for an awesome order and fast shipping to me, and the folks in this thread! Gonna strip/clean/lube it and take it to the range tommorow night... can't wait.

Congrats.  You are going to love it.

Regards

What Joescuba said. I really enjoy shooting mine. Check out the different grip modules available when you have a chance. I wear XL gloves, but the OEM small module feels perfect to me.

Well done!

Cp

Done and ordered. Next up is the Romeo X pro for it. Recently put one on my Spectre Comp and love it.

Noooooope, you don’t want the RomeoX Pro, you want the RomeoM17. The Romeo X Pro will leave the mounting hole in the rear of the slide open.
You need the RM17 that it was designed for.

Cp

Copy that, thanks for the heads up