Posted: 5/14/2025 8:57:50 AM EDT
| What the deal currently with the accidental discharges of the SIG 320? |
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The thread linked above is the best source for info, with the advance caution this is a tech forum and not the place for Sig bashing. Not claiming that is your goal. It's general guidance for everyone. With respect to the current state of analysis about these supposed uncommanded discharges, while there are several theories, there has been no definitive conclusion thus far and Sig is still publicly stating there are no design issues. What is definitive is it would take three successive/stacked failures for an "upgraded' P320 to fire without the trigger being pulled. The striker would need to slip off the primary sear ledge, then miss or slip off the secondary sear ledge, and then the striker safety lever would have to fail blocking the striker from passing through the breechface. Not denying such stacked failures could occur, but clearly an unusual chain of events. Like many P320 owners, I am looking forward to more analysis and hopefully a conclusion on which Sig and recognized independent sources can agree. |
| Personally, I have full confidence in the P320. If I did not, I would not own so many of them. The vast and dominating majority of P320s out there, and there are a LOT of them, have had zero issues. However, there are some people who have handled them that have no clue about safe handling of a firearm and making sure that they keep their finger off the trigger until ready to fire. Improper holster use has been another issue. Like any firearm, safe handling practices are essential. Carelessness, negligence, stupidity, and inexperience cause accidents. This goes for LEOs, military, and civilians alike. |
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SIG does not know what is happening. SIGs stance is there is nothing wrong. They said the same thing about the the gun when drop firings where happening after it's release. Oklahoma Outdoors is who discovered the drop firing issue not SIG in 2017 and released a youtube video. SIG changed their tune and said our bad. They came out with a fix. Called it a voluntary upgrade. Its the same marketing model FIX that Glock used in the early 90s. Voluntary Upgrade. Glock got it right but SIG is still reeling from the bad press. There is an issue, as of 2 days ago publicly they said they can't find it. Whatever you decide be careful OP. |
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Quoted: The thread linked above is the best source for info, with the advance caution this is a tech forum and not the place for Sig bashing. Not claiming that is your goal. It's general guidance for everyone. With respect to the current state of analysis about these supposed uncommanded discharges, while there are several theories, there has been no definitive conclusion thus far and Sig is still publicly stating there are no design issues. What is definitive is it would take three successive/stacked failures for an "upgraded' P320 to fire without the trigger being pulled. The striker would need to slip off the primary sear ledge, then miss or slip off the secondary sear ledge, and then the striker safety lever would have to fail blocking the striker from passing through the breechface. Not denying such stacked failures could occur, but clearly an unusual chain of events. Like many P320 owners, I am looking forward to more analysis and hopefully a conclusion on which Sig and recognized independent sources can agree. I am not attempting to bash SIG. I currently carry a M-17 every day. I've had no problems or know of any. I thought this would be a good place to find out the current status. Regards |
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Quoted: The thread linked above is the best source for info, with the advance caution this is a tech forum and not the place for Sig bashing. Not claiming that is your goal. It's general guidance for everyone. With respect to the current state of analysis about these supposed uncommanded discharges, while there are several theories, there has been no definitive conclusion thus far and Sig is still publicly stating there are no design issues. What is definitive is it would take three successive/stacked failures for an "upgraded' P320 to fire without the trigger being pulled. The striker would need to slip off the primary sear ledge, then miss or slip off the secondary sear ledge, and then the striker safety lever would have to fail blocking the striker from passing through the breechface. Not denying such stacked failures could occur, but clearly an unusual chain of events. Like many P320 owners, I am looking forward to more analysis and hopefully a conclusion on which Sig and recognized independent sources can agree. |
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Quoted: Only if the trigger is pulled Attached File Unless you’re a believer in the instrument called a “long pokey thing”…. |
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3 design failures. 1 - was not drop safe. Now corrected. 2 - too light of a trigger with insufficient safety and design aspects, causing inadvertent user-activated discharges, that were less likely with with other pistols. Many people consider that just fine. Many do not. 3 - a design defect that allows a portion of the units to have failed and non-working safety sear, combined with a main sear that can walk off at times depending on factors not fully identified and not easily repeatable upon demand, but too many video recorded events to continue to deny. A market that is starting to realize this gun just isn't worth it. I would not purchase a P320 today. If I had a P320, there are 2 people already in this thread who think none of this is real, there is a resale.market still, so there is that. |
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The only meaningful update is that you can test your striker safety to see if it is working properly by depressing the sear with the gun assembled and masking tape on the breach face. If you pass that “test” I think you’re good to go. If you don’t, then you either have to justify why the result is acceptable or swap FCU trigger bars or striker assemblies until you pass. I had an M18 that I liked a lot. I really liked it. It eve passed the check I mentioned. Unfortunately I just couldn’t stop thinking about discharges when I was carrying it in the same room as my kids. |
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So intentionally mismatching parts and putting the slide back on without locking it back will cause a malfunction, maybe, after 20 minutes of trying to get it to malfunction with no success. After finally getting it to malfunction they call it without trying to recreate the malfunction a 2nd or 3rd time. First of all, who doesn’t lock the slide back when reassembling after a field strip. I tested this with my m18p320. The magazine will not insert if the slide lock isn’t pushed up and it has a dead trigger as well. Until the slide lock gets pushed up, the mag will insert and the trigger functions properly. Second of all, mismatching a 10mm slide with a 9mm fcu is along the same lines of putting 300bo ammo into your 556 ar15. To be fair though, I believe human stupidity has no bounds. They could have taken apart the fcu’s and measured the parts to compare parts from the 9mm and 10mm fcus and have put the 10mm parts into the 9mm fcu and see if the results are the same. I don’t think this video proved anything. Great thought, terrible execution. I don’t have a 10mm p320, otherwise I would try mixing parts from one fcu to the other to test the wrong parts in wrong fcu theory that’s floating around. |
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I had a M17 back in 2018 when it first rolled out. I had it for about 2 years before selling it to downsize. I shot about 2.5k out of it because I remember I bought some 9mm 1k packs specifically to shoot it in this pistol. I find it hard to believe the gun will fire without a trigger pull. All of the accidents seem to involve it being inside a holster. I think a lady cop recently tried to sue sig because she said she had it in her gym bag and it went off on its own but I'm not sure if she had it in a holster or what but she had many loose items in her gym bag that could have pulled the trigger. To date, no one has reported the gun going off on its own outside of a holster. All of the ADs/NDs were inside a holster of some kind. I think the gun community has mostly gone SOTARded with this and making their own videos where they come out talking about tolerance stacking and how parts can be off or something but nobody can actually make a video where they actually do this without having to do something very extreme. It's essentially a B-rated SOTARded video made by someone trying to sound smart like they're gun engineers or something without every showing it happen. Also, some people cite the military saying it somehow went off on its own which again seems to be prior to the adoption of the M17 where they were concerned of some of the videos on it but decided to beef it up to sell to the military. Overall I'm taking it with a grain of salt. All of the accidents seem to involve cops and it being in a holster. I'm not 100% convinced every cop has the proper training and most PDs tend to just give minimal qualification trainings. On top of that, trusting cops to be "gun experts" is kind of silly considering many cops go through their entire career without ever drawing and on top of that a lot of cops aren't gun people and only ever own or use their service pistol or whatever the PD gave them. |
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Sig got immunity protection from NH I have not been following the P320 stuff much at all because I’ve never been a big fan of a platform. However, they are a very local company to me and I have taken several classes at their facility. This article came out yesterday, looks like they can’t be sued just because the gun is made without a manual safety and that is for the consumer to decide which model they want. If there is something inherently wrong with the gun, then there should be a process of legal action for people to take. No company should have immunity just like the Covid shots and the companies that created them should not have immunity. But it is up to the consumer to decide what model they want and deal with their own consequences if they do something unsafe. |
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greyguns outlining what has to occur for a false sear to occur and then discharge TLDW: Some 320's can have a false sear holding the striker (ie, the sear is not in the full upright position) after reassembly if you don't press the slide release lever up. If you don't push the slide release lever up, the take down safety lever SHOULD block a 9/.357/.40 magazine from being inserted - assuming your gun has the correct take down safety lever installed, it isn't worn, and there's no damage to your magazine. Some striker block safeties have failed, sometimes the spring breaks, and some appear to be locked to the movement of the sear; so if the sear does move, the striker block may not block the released striker. In other words, for an Uncommanded Discharge to occur, you need an incorrect part installed in the gun, reassemble the gun contrary to the manual, and have a striker block safety that is inoperative. |
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Quoted: I had a M17 back in 2018 when it first rolled out. I had it for about 2 years before selling it to downsize. I shot about 2.5k out of it because I remember I bought some 9mm 1k packs specifically to shoot it in this pistol. I find it hard to believe the gun will fire without a trigger pull. All of the accidents seem to involve it being inside a holster. I think a lady cop recently tried to sue sig because she said she had it in her gym bag and it went off on its own but I'm not sure if she had it in a holster or what but she had many loose items in her gym bag that could have pulled the trigger. To date, no one has reported the gun going off on its own outside of a holster. All of the ADs/NDs were inside a holster of some kind. I think the gun community has mostly gone SOTARded with this and making their own videos where they come out talking about tolerance stacking and how parts can be off or something but nobody can actually make a video where they actually do this without having to do something very extreme. It's essentially a B-rated SOTARded video made by someone trying to sound smart like they're gun engineers or something without every showing it happen. Also, some people cite the military saying it somehow went off on its own which again seems to be prior to the adoption of the M17 where they were concerned of some of the videos on it but decided to beef it up to sell to the military. Overall I'm taking it with a grain of salt. All of the accidents seem to involve cops and it being in a holster. I'm not 100% convinced every cop has the proper training and most PDs tend to just give minimal qualification trainings. On top of that, trusting cops to be "gun experts" is kind of silly considering many cops go through their entire career without ever drawing and on top of that a lot of cops aren't gun people and only ever own or use their service pistol or whatever the PD gave them. Just to be clear: you're saying these incidents, which you yourself note are almost exclusively happening while holstered, are the result of careless handling by untrained, stupid cops. You'd think cops that stupid, and that careless, and that poorly trained would also be having NDs while NOT holstered, yet I haven't seen any accounts of that. I wonder why that is.... |
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Here is a new P320 video for you guys from SIG Armorer LLC. It explains a whole lot. |
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Quoted: Here is a new P320 video for you guys from SIG Armorer LLC. It explains a whole lot. Yes, particularly after he had announced a fix for the problem, then visits SIG and spends 45 minutes announcing there is no problem to fix. It explains a great deal. |
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You have a sear that has all of its mass on one side of the pivot pin, so it's unbalanced. Additionally it's at a negative angle. These are both bad. Add in that incorrect assembly may leave you with minimal sear engagement rather than a dead trigger. So now a good jostle is enough to set it off. Then add in sympathetic striker block movement with the sear. And add in that it's entirely possible that Sig put in 10mm/.45 takedown safety levers in 9mm guns. Then consider that it's made with cheap stampings and MIM that has probably minimal if any QC. ETA: Also there have been striker blocks that were measured at only .003" inches of engagement. And the sear isn't locked. |
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Quoted: Yes, particularly after he had announced a fix for the problem, then visits SIG and spends 45 minutes announcing there is no problem to fix. It explains a great deal. Quoted: Quoted: Here is a new P320 video for you guys from SIG Armorer LLC. It explains a whole lot. Yes, particularly after he had announced a fix for the problem, then visits SIG and spends 45 minutes announcing there is no problem to fix. It explains a great deal. Did you even watch the video? |
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Quoted: Did you even watch the video? Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Here is a new P320 video for you guys from SIG Armorer LLC. It explains a whole lot. Yes, particularly after he had announced a fix for the problem, then visits SIG and spends 45 minutes announcing there is no problem to fix. It explains a great deal. Did you even watch the video? Yes, I watched the video. Complete waste of my time. Complete waste of anyone's time, really. |
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Quoted: Did you even watch the video? It's a good first step but doesn't conclusively rule out an issue with the gun. I think we can agree if there is a problem with the gun it's likely a small number of those produced. Testing should be carried out on guns "accused" of a UD. Those guns should also be analyzed to see if all parts are original and meet the design specifications. This would need to be done by Sig or an independent third body supplied by Sig with complete specifications. Sig may not want to do this because corporate lawyers usually don't want to find liabilities. I'm a retired engineering manager with 48 years of engineering experience. About 30 of those managing a design engineering department for a major US corporation with a steeped tradition in quality control. So, I've participated in many product quality investigations. Coincidently I spent a few days at Sig Academy waiting for my son to finish up training sessions. While I was there, I got to talk to a few Sig quality managers while I was hanging around. I talked to them about Sig's quality programs and methods and came away satisfied with their processes. This was prior to the P320 concerns. I'm not a Sig fanboy or a hater. I've owned a few Sig guns and found them well designed and high quality products. |
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Quoted: It's a good first step but doesn't conclusively rule out an issue with the gun. I think we can agree if there is a problem with the gun it's likely a small number of those produced. Testing should be carried out on guns "accused" of a UD. Those guns should also be analyzed to see if all parts are original and meet the design specifications. This would need to be done by Sig or an independent third body supplied by Sig with complete specifications. Sig may not want to do this because corporate lawyers usually don't want to find liabilities. I'm a retired engineering manager with 48 years of engineering experience. About 30 of those managing a design engineering department for a major US corporation with a steeped tradition in quality control. So, I've participated in many product quality investigations. Coincidently I spent a few days at Sig Academy waiting for my son to finish up training sessions. While I was there, I got to talk to a few Sig quality managers while I was hanging around. I talked to them about Sig's quality programs and methods and came away satisfied with their processes. This was prior to the P320 concerns. I'm not a Sig fanboy or a hater. I've owned a few Sig guns and found them well designed and high quality products. Quoted: Quoted: Did you even watch the video? It's a good first step but doesn't conclusively rule out an issue with the gun. I think we can agree if there is a problem with the gun it's likely a small number of those produced. Testing should be carried out on guns "accused" of a UD. Those guns should also be analyzed to see if all parts are original and meet the design specifications. This would need to be done by Sig or an independent third body supplied by Sig with complete specifications. Sig may not want to do this because corporate lawyers usually don't want to find liabilities. I'm a retired engineering manager with 48 years of engineering experience. About 30 of those managing a design engineering department for a major US corporation with a steeped tradition in quality control. So, I've participated in many product quality investigations. Coincidently I spent a few days at Sig Academy waiting for my son to finish up training sessions. While I was there, I got to talk to a few Sig quality managers while I was hanging around. I talked to them about Sig's quality programs and methods and came away satisfied with their processes. This was prior to the P320 concerns. I'm not a Sig fanboy or a hater. I've owned a few Sig guns and found them well designed and high quality products. Welcome to ARFCOM. Got any Legos? |
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Quoted: If this was simply a training or holster issue I would expect similar reports on Glocks, M&Ps and other handguns being used widely by LEOs. My P320s have a short, light trigger pull that is unlike anything I've ever felt in a Glock or M&P. I can easily see how they'd be much more susceptible to an unintentional trigger pull than any of the other widely used LE handguns that I've owned, handled, or shot. |
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Quoted: Welcome to ARFCOM. Got any Legos? Thanks for the welcome. Ironically my daughter's best friend in HS and college is a creative designer for Lego in Denmark. I prefer adult "Legos", as in building ARs from the wide collection of "Lego" parts we have available. As to the P320, I can't remember shooting one, but I likely did as my son has one and I've shot most of his collection at one time or another. I own and shoot M&Ps because they fit my hands the best. I'm a big believer that a handgun that feels good in your hand inspires confidence which leads to better shooting. |