Posted: 4/12/2026 9:51:38 AM EDT
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I was thinking of giving this a try for concealed carry. What say you? https://underwoodammo.com/9mm-luger-p-68gr-xtreme-defender-platinum-edition-solid-monolithic-hunting-self-defense-ammo/ |
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I say there is zero reason to carry a gimmick when there are so many proven bullet designs that get the job done. Has this gimmick been through the FBI protocols? Is there one single agency anywhere on the planet that issues this gimmick? I fail to see why anyone would seriously consider carrying this. |
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The light-über fast vs heavier projectile vs human targets has been addressed by FBI standards, US military, Dr. Fackler, etc. What is your intended target? ETA: i am a bullet-gimmick nerd & have an assorted “magic bullets” collection. Be it Mag-Safe, LeMas Blended Metal, Glaser Safety Slug & Pow’R Ball, Rhino (their ad was their bullets use the same “stealth material” WTF that means,” BAT (Blitz Aktion Trauma), New Generation Ammo Monads, etc the iteration of light & fast gimmick vs heavier projectile are the basic difference. https://www.cartridgecollector.net/south_african_refere/357-magnum-south-africa/ I’m not affiliated with this site: https://collectibleammunition.com/product/9mm-blitz-action-trauma-geco-9mm-para/ My collection is nowhere as extensive, but in the past (ca. 1970s Super-Vel) the ideas of “light & fast” vs “slow & heavy” with ever popular “energy dump” has driven gimmick bullets. Interestingly, the Europeans (French & Germans in particular) have focused on light & fast 60-100gr 9mm ammo citing over-penetration concerns vs terrorists, farm animals, etc. These were once all the range: https://www.gunbroker.com/item/1164593474 |
Who was the member here that was pushing these projectiles to ~2k fps  https://www.ar15.com/forums/Armory/The-quest-for-600-ft-lbs-9mm/42-547833/ |
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Originally Posted By stiglitz_actual: Who was the member here that was pushing these projectiles to ~2k fps https://www.ar15.com/forums/Armory/The-quest-for-600-ft-lbs-9mm/42-547833/ Wow! That thread mentioned one of the things I was interested in, lighter magazines. |
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Originally Posted By stiglitz_actual: Who was the member here that was pushing these projectiles to ~2k fps https://www.ar15.com/forums/Armory/The-quest-for-600-ft-lbs-9mm/42-547833/ Me
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All of the sooperlightfastfrangible pistol bullet designs are an attempt to get rifle terminal ballistics out of a pistol cartridge. Bottom line: You can't. Physics doesn't work that way, no matter how much stealth nanite-infused handwavium technology is invoked. The good news is that bullet effectiveness with pistol cartridges comes down to really only 2 things: 1) the ability of the shooter to hit CNS or heart/aorta, which requires knowlege of 3 dimensional anatomy plus lots of practice, and 2) adequate penetration to reach the CNS or heart/aorta Exotic ammo is expensive. Practice ammo is cheap. Spend the money on becoming a better shooter. |
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Originally Posted By PigBat: All of the sooperlightfastfrangible pistol bullet designs are an attempt to get rifle terminal ballistics out of a pistol cartridge. Bottom line: You can't. Physics doesn't work that way, no matter how much stealth nanite-infused handwavium technology is invoked. The good news is that bullet effectiveness with pistol cartridges comes down to really only 2 things: 1) the ability of the shooter to hit CNS or heart/aorta, which requires knowlege of 3 dimensional anatomy plus lots of practice, and 2) adequate penetration to reach the CNS or heart/aorta Exotic ammo is expensive. Practice ammo is cheap. Spend the money on becoming a better shooter. Well, that’s no fun. Easier to believe problems can be solved by hardware than hard work. |
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Originally Posted By gont: Agreed. I have not seen a negative review, only negative opinions. Same. No video ive seen say their performance sucks during their testing, but quite a few fall back on the lack of real world documentation and acceptance by the fbi and other law enforcement. After I severely hurt my back I started carying these simply because of the lesser weight and it really was the difference between me being able to carry or not. Be aware that some pistols have issues with these. Both my p365 and my 365xl had a few failure to feeds. Glock 43x and Hellcat had no issues. So get ready to spend some money running a couple hundred through yout pisto before carrying them. |
Doesn't mean that much to me to mean that much to you.
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I carried the 90gr +P 9mm. Between impressive gel tests and impressive meat target tests, I'm convinced these rounds will have excellent terminal performance. I remember an article where a pig was shot with this bullet design (can't remember the caliber, but it was an Underwood Xtreme Defender) and it did what it said on the tin. I've also never had issues with bullet setback or feeding. Recoil isn't anything special with the 90gr. It's an extremely high quality round from a good company. Literally the only reason I stopped carrying it is because I can't find it at any of my local stores and online orders kill you on shipping. If they were easier to find, I'd either carry the Xtreme Defender 90gr +P or an Underwood-manufactured traditional hollow point. |
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It sounds like the Op is prioritizing light weight over all other variables. I also notice a magazine filled with light weight cartridges (Blazer aluminum 115 FMJ) vs any regular brass cased ammo and it can be very noticeable. Personally I agree that the HV, light-weight solid bullets are a "gimmick" and I would need some really solid real world results to change my mind. One of the biggest concerns (for me) for any unusual, "gimmick", using very light weight bullets is that they will operate your gun differently than standard practice ammo. It may not cycle the slide, recoil will feel different, or the weird bullet profile may jam on the feed ramp. I would insist on LOTS of function/reliability testing with any non-standard ammo and the fact that this stuff is usually extra expensive makes it much harder. |
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At handgun velocities, the only thing that causes tissue destruction is the projectile going through it. So, bullets that expand, will cause permanent damage directly related to the diameter of the expanded bullet, no more, no less. You need rifle velocities to cause damage into the stretched tissue. Handgun ammo isn't fast enough. Regarding the flutes, they are not spinning fast enough to blow out tissue to the point of destruction. Gel is different. It will do it in gel, because gel is much denser to simulate a combination of tissue and bone, and that extra density causes the gel to rupture rather than stretch and return to is non elastic state as actual living tissue would. No matter what pistol bullet you use, it will only crush and rupture the tissue it directly contacts, so in real live targets, you're going to get the diameter of the bullet and nothing more. I'll stick with well known, highly expansive hollow points. If I didn't want a hollow point, I'd simply use the much cheaper FMJ. |
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Originally Posted By Redman556: At handgun velocities, the only thing that causes tissue destruction is the projectile going through it. So, bullets that expand, will cause permanent damage directly related to the diameter of the expanded bullet, no more, no less. You need rifle velocities to cause damage into the stretched tissue. Handgun ammo isn't fast enough. Regarding the flutes, they are not spinning fast enough to blow out tissue to the point of destruction. Gel is different. It will do it in gel, because gel is much denser to simulate a combination of tissue and bone, and that extra density causes the gel to rupture rather than stretch and return to is non elastic state as actual living tissue would. No matter what pistol bullet you use, it will only crush and rupture the tissue it directly contacts, so in real live targets, you're going to get the diameter of the bullet and nothing more. I'll stick with well known, highly expansive hollow points. If I didn't want a hollow point, I'd simply use the much cheaper FMJ. Agree 100%. I will add that some bullet shapes like wad cutters, SWC, etc. will "cut" and damage flesh more than a typical round FMJ. Some of these weird shaped all-copper projectiles may cut a little better than round FMJ. But not much better than FMJ, certainly nothing like a good (or even bad) JHP. Again, if all the OP is prioritizing is the overall weight of the load, it may be better to just have less, but more effective, cartridges in the gun. |
| Unless you live in place where expanding ammunition is prohibited...Gold Dot and HST (or Winchester Ranger/PDX1 or Hornady Critical Duty) are just as effective, probably more widely available on store shelves, and just as effective... |