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Posted: 12/5/2019 9:59:50 PM EDT
[#1]
I have the Keltec, very happy with it.
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Posted: 12/5/2019 10:15:09 PM EDT
[#2]
I had one of the Automags years ago. It was a USDA GRADE A JAMMOMATIC. I tried literally everything in the book to get it to run reliably. Very methodical process of replacing springs, polishing mated surfaces, feed ramp. NOTHING WORKED. I got so frustrated with it, I used a buddy of mine's band saw and cut it into four pieces. Damn shame as I really liked the feel and handling of the gun.
No experience with the Kel-Tec. If the Rock Island guns runs RELIABLY, I'd consider buying one on the basis of how the various RIA guns I have shot in the past have performed. |
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Posted: 12/5/2019 10:25:52 PM EDT
[#3]
Rats! I really like the lines and SS of the AMT. I wished auto mag made one like the 44 in 22WMR
ive got my eye on the Keltec. Maybe |
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Posted: 12/5/2019 10:53:21 PM EDT
[#4]
I had a 6” AMT 30 years ago and was good to go, never jammed. I currently have 2 PMR30. 30rds of awesomeness. Buy one you will love it. And even though they say 40gr or heavier bullets both of mine love the CCI 35gr A22 which slings the brass and creates a big muzzle flash.
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Posted: 12/5/2019 10:56:26 PM EDT
[#5]
Had the Automag II 6". Beautiful gun that had been a grail of mine since I was a kid.
Thing couldn't fire a single magazine without jamming. Sold it. |
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Posted: 12/5/2019 10:57:13 PM EDT
[#6]
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Posted: 12/5/2019 11:14:06 PM EDT
[#7]
Rock Island is very reliable. Great feel in your hand. Sold the PMR-30 and kept the RIA.
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Posted: 12/6/2019 6:59:49 AM EDT
[#8]
the thing with the KelTec that concerns me is the polymer mags. I have a Mountain Eagle 22LR that I bought new and five polymer 15 round magazines. all but one of the magazines now has chipped and broken feed lips that won't feed reliably. And I can't get more mags. the KT mags look very similar to those mags. I realize polymer technology has improved, but i would prefer metal mags, or at least metal feedlips like on Lancer AR mags
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Posted: 12/6/2019 7:25:16 PM EDT
[#9]
My Automag II jams a lot. Tried different ammo, finaly found some that work. I think CCI, the ones with the pointy polymer tip work good. Others with a blunt tip miss the chamber just enough to not go in. i think it is because it is a rimmed cartridge and kinda long, when the next round is stripped off the magazine the tip of it can move around a lot.
One problem with 22mag in a short barrel is half the powder burns after the bullet leaves the barrel. Big fireball and loud. If you look at Ballisticsbytheinch site, it shows that you lose a lot of velocity/energy when barrel lengths get into pistol range. |
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Posted: 12/6/2019 10:05:03 PM EDT
[#10]
Maybe I should just get the Ruger long barreled LCR model...
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Posted: 12/6/2019 10:27:17 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryThe internal dimensions of the Grendel mag are the same as those of the Kel-Tec - George Kellgren knows a good idea when he has one. |
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Posted: 12/7/2019 1:13:13 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: @sample doesn't shoot his Grendel much - says it's too easy to go through a box of ammo that way. The internal dimensions of the Grendel mag are the same as those of the Kel-Tec - George Kellgren knows a good idea when he has one. I was lucky when I bought that one... It came with 8 magazines.... And an R31 carbine. I shoot the stuffin out of it too. 
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Posted: 12/7/2019 1:47:48 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Maybe I should just get the Ruger long barreled LCR model... https://www.ruger.com/productImages/5437/detail/1.jpg http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/22mag.html The only niche where it shines is the NAA Mini's, and the 10oz Scandium J Frame (7 shots and tolerable recoil). |
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Posted: 12/7/2019 3:22:42 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Honestly .22 magnum...kinda sucks out of pistol barrels: http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/22mag.html The only niche where it shines is the NAA Mini's, and the 10oz Scandium J Frame (7 shots and tolerable recoil). Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Maybe I should just get the Ruger long barreled LCR model... https://www.ruger.com/productImages/5437/detail/1.jpg http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/22mag.html The only niche where it shines is the NAA Mini's, and the 10oz Scandium J Frame (7 shots and tolerable recoil).  Attached File Attached FileWhere a 22mag handgun is nice, is it's equivalent to a 22lr rifle, with better bullets and IMO more reliable ammo (I've never had a misfire in 22mag) Obviously, it's gonna be louder. |
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Posted: 12/7/2019 4:38:47 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If you put the charts side by side, so does a 357mag. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Maybe I should just get the Ruger long barreled LCR model... https://www.ruger.com/productImages/5437/detail/1.jpg http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/22mag.html The only niche where it shines is the NAA Mini's, and the 10oz Scandium J Frame (7 shots and tolerable recoil). Going 3" barrel, 40gr vs 125gr (the two standard weights for their respective calibers) 3" .22 Mag 40gr = 1050-1160fps / 98-120 ftlbs 3" .357 125gr = 1255-1270fps / 440 ftlbs Further, the .357's projectiles are actually optimized for those velocities. From a 3" barrel, the .22 Mag 40gr is only marginally faster then the 40gr CCI Velocitor .22lr: http://ballisticsbytheinch.com/22.html Which really gets back to - when is .22 Mag a good pistol caliber? And to me thats basically the NAA Mini's and the 351PD 10oz 7 shot J frame. Once you go for a larger / heavier pistol, other calibers make more sense. 5.7x28 and some of the new, lightweight high velocity 9mm's offer low recoil, high velocity performance far above .22 mag of comparable barrel lengths. Or conversely, just a longer barrel .22lr Auto; CCI Velocitor does 1180fps from a 5.5" Ruger MK for example. |
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Posted: 12/7/2019 6:21:25 AM EDT
[#16]
I have a PMR-30 and a RIA 1911-22mag.
The Kel-Tec is a pretty good pistol. The RIA is junk. |
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Posted: 12/7/2019 6:50:12 AM EDT
[#17]
Here are the velocities of .22 mag from the PMR-30:
https://gunblast.com/KelTec-PMR30-2.htm Are here's a good look at cost per round of various loads: https://www.sgammo.com/catalog/rimfire-ammunition/22-magnum-ammo Basically you're getting 9x19 prices, for pretty modest performance. I'd say a G34 would be a better option for high velocity pistol; $0.30 a shot 9BPLE 115gr is doing 1325-1350fps from a G34, while the 50gr Liberty is doing around 2200fps. |
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Posted: 12/7/2019 10:04:34 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
While I agree that both .22 mag and .357 mag gain a tremendous amount of velocity via rifle length barrel, thats really where the similarity ends. Going 3" barrel, 40gr vs 125gr (the two standard weights for their respective calibers) 3" .22 Mag 40gr = 1050-1160fps / 98-120 ftlbs 3" .357 125gr = 1255-1270fps / 440 ftlbs Further, the .357's projectiles are actually optimized for those velocities. From a 3" barrel, the .22 Mag 40gr is only marginally faster then the 40gr CCI Velocitor .22lr: http://ballisticsbytheinch.com/22.html Which really gets back to - when is .22 Mag a good pistol caliber? And to me thats basically the NAA Mini's and the 351PD 10oz 7 shot J frame. Once you go for a larger / heavier pistol, other calibers make more sense. 5.7x28 and some of the new, lightweight high velocity 9mm's offer low recoil, high velocity performance far above .22 mag of comparable barrel lengths. Or conversely, just a longer barrel .22lr Auto; CCI Velocitor does 1180fps from a 5.5" Ruger MK for example. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Maybe I should just get the Ruger long barreled LCR model... https://www.ruger.com/productImages/5437/detail/1.jpg http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/22mag.html The only niche where it shines is the NAA Mini's, and the 10oz Scandium J Frame (7 shots and tolerable recoil). Going 3" barrel, 40gr vs 125gr (the two standard weights for their respective calibers) 3" .22 Mag 40gr = 1050-1160fps / 98-120 ftlbs 3" .357 125gr = 1255-1270fps / 440 ftlbs Further, the .357's projectiles are actually optimized for those velocities. From a 3" barrel, the .22 Mag 40gr is only marginally faster then the 40gr CCI Velocitor .22lr: http://ballisticsbytheinch.com/22.html Which really gets back to - when is .22 Mag a good pistol caliber? And to me thats basically the NAA Mini's and the 351PD 10oz 7 shot J frame. Once you go for a larger / heavier pistol, other calibers make more sense. 5.7x28 and some of the new, lightweight high velocity 9mm's offer low recoil, high velocity performance far above .22 mag of comparable barrel lengths. Or conversely, just a longer barrel .22lr Auto; CCI Velocitor does 1180fps from a 5.5" Ruger MK for example. Too Loud Too much Velocity loss. And that is something rarely said about a 357mag(except in snubbys) But it mirrors the 22mag almost exactly in those 2 things. For me I like pistols in 22lr and revolvers in 22mag. 22mag is just too big to fit in a pistol size I want. |
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Posted: 12/7/2019 10:17:59 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Maybe I should just get the Ruger long barreled LCR model... https://www.ruger.com/productImages/5437/detail/1.jpg I wish it held more than 6 thou. 7 or 8 would have been nice. 30gr ammo performs pretty well in shorter barrels |
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Posted: 12/7/2019 12:30:04 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Honestly .22 magnum...kinda sucks out of pistol barrels:
http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/22mag.html The only niche where it shines is the NAA Mini's, and the 10oz Scandium J Frame (7 shots and tolerable recoil).  .22 Magnum is Pretty Good .22 WMR is a better .22 LR - out of a small pistol, in FMJ, it will reliably penetrate @ least 12" of gel, & do so w/ a larger energy budget than .22 LR, or do so out of a shorter bbl than .22 LR. It's in the .32 ACP class - too little energy to both penetrate & expand out of a pistol, but enough to reliably penetrate 12" in gel w/ FMJ. .380 ACP is the better load than either, but if your mother in law can't handle .380 ACP recoil, there's not a lot of places to go. .22 WMR can be a better round for the elderly than .22 LR - on either end.
Out of 16" bbl, in a PCC, the light bullets in .22 WMR clear 2100 fps, which allows it to punch well above its weight. |
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Posted: 12/7/2019 4:22:39 PM EDT
[#21]
thanks, and the more I look at it, the longer barrel I want.
Maybe I want a semi-auto rifle instead. What would be neat is an AR-Pistol type thing with a 9" barrel and a brace. does such a thing exist ? |
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Posted: 12/7/2019 5:11:32 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
thanks, and the more I look at it, the longer barrel I want. Maybe I want a semi-auto rifle instead. What would be neat is an AR-Pistol type thing with a 9" barrel and a brace. does such a thing exist ? Ive always wondered why they dont make a 22mag conversion. |
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Posted: 12/7/2019 5:25:43 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: i think the Keltec Rifle is your closest option
Ive always wondered why they dont make a 22mag conversion. https://www.keltecweapons.com/firearms/rifles/cmr30/ 
The bbl is 7" longer than you want, OP, and there's no brace for it yet, but the stock collapses. Should give you velocity out over 2300 fps. |
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Posted: 12/7/2019 5:40:38 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The .22 WMR Kel-Tec CMR-30 rifle? https://www.keltecweapons.com/firearms/rifles/cmr30/ https://s3.amazonaws.com/build-keltec/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/CMR-30-Right_DSC3010.jpg The bbl is 7" longer than you want, OP, and there's no brace for it yet, but the stock collapses. Should give you velocity out over 2300 fps. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: i think the Keltec Rifle is your closest option
Ive always wondered why they dont make a 22mag conversion. https://www.keltecweapons.com/firearms/rifles/cmr30/ https://s3.amazonaws.com/build-keltec/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/CMR-30-Right_DSC3010.jpg The bbl is 7" longer than you want, OP, and there's no brace for it yet, but the stock collapses. Should give you velocity out over 2300 fps. Hell of alot more useful than the shockwave shotgun. |
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Posted: 12/7/2019 6:16:46 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NMkp2m6ZuIc
.22 WMR is a better .22 LR - out of a small pistol, in FMJ, it will reliably penetrate @ least 12" of gel, & do so w/ a larger energy budget than .22 LR, or do so out of a shorter bbl than .22 LR. It's in the .32 ACP class - too little energy to both penetrate & expand out of a pistol, but enough to reliably penetrate 12" in gel w/ FMJ. .380 ACP is the better load than either, but if your mother in law can't handle .380 ACP recoil, there's not a lot of places to go. .22 WMR can be a better round for the elderly than .22 LR - on either end. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: Honestly .22 magnum...kinda sucks out of pistol barrels:
http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/22mag.html The only niche where it shines is the NAA Mini's, and the 10oz Scandium J Frame (7 shots and tolerable recoil). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NMkp2m6ZuIc
.22 WMR is a better .22 LR - out of a small pistol, in FMJ, it will reliably penetrate @ least 12" of gel, & do so w/ a larger energy budget than .22 LR, or do so out of a shorter bbl than .22 LR. It's in the .32 ACP class - too little energy to both penetrate & expand out of a pistol, but enough to reliably penetrate 12" in gel w/ FMJ. .380 ACP is the better load than either, but if your mother in law can't handle .380 ACP recoil, there's not a lot of places to go. .22 WMR can be a better round for the elderly than .22 LR - on either end. My point is that once you go to a larger, heavier handgun, .22 Mag stops making much sense vs either .22LR CCI Stingers/Velocitors, or on the higher end, 5.7x28 and 9x19. Ultimately what we really need is a ".27 Magnum" based on the .27 nail gun blank used for the .17 WSM: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.17_Winchester_Super_Magnum .17 WSM shown on the far right: .22 Magnum = 24k psi SAAMI .27 Magnum / .17 WSM = 33k psi SAAMI Loaded with 45-60gr projectiles and pistol powders, a '.27 Magnum' would actually deliver on the hopes of a low recoil, high velocity rimfire handgun. |
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Posted: 12/7/2019 7:52:30 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm with you on that, which is why I mentioned that .22 Mag only makes sense out of small handguns (NAA Mini's, SW 351PD, Ruger LCR, Derringer) For small, light, low recoil guns, that is a good niche for .22 mag. My point is that once you go to a larger, heavier handgun, .22 Mag stops making much sense vs either .22LR CCI Stingers/Velocitors, or on the higher end, 5.7x28 and 9x19. Ultimately what we really need is a ".27 Magnum" based on the .27 nail gun blank used for the .17 WSM: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.17_Winchester_Super_Magnum .17 WSM shown on the far right: https://www.outdoorlife.com/g00/3_c-5eee.wcblwwztqnm.kwu_/c-5UWZMXPMCA09x24pbbx78ax3ax2fx2feee.wcblwwztqnm.kwux2fzmaqhmzx2fbQb1YIHYrJAi75XO9zT0rHrx78h48x3dx2f9230f9878x2fizk-ivotmznqap-izk0-x78zwl-jwvvqmz.a1.iuihwviea.kwux2fx78cjtqkx2fCQYNVX3S2ZOSVWDRW34E0RSMRI.rx78ox3fq98k.uizsx3dquiom_$/$/$/$/$/$/$ .22 Magnum = 24k psi SAAMI .27 Magnum / .17 WSM = 33k psi SAAMI Loaded with 45-60gr projectiles and pistol powders, a '.27 Magnum' would actually deliver on the hopes of a low recoil, high velocity rimfire handgun. She couldn't rack the Kel-Tec, so I put her in the long bbl Ruger SR-22, that she can run, and stoke it w/ 40 grn LRN. I'd be interesting in seeing a .17 WSM pistol, maybe by Bond Arms, that gives a long enough bbl to clear 2100 fps out of a concealable bbl. |
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Posted: 12/7/2019 10:44:33 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Oh, I'd think my MIL well-armed if she was packing a .22 TCM or FN 5.7 - but I'm not going to drop that kind of coin on her. That's where the Kel-Tec PMR-30 shines - a low recoil, high capacity service pistol for folks who can't handle the recoil of a 9x19mm and can't afford a 5.7x28mm pistol. She couldn't rack the Kel-Tec, so I put her in the long bbl Ruger SR-22, that she can run, and stoke it w/ 40 grn LRN. I'd be interesting in seeing a .17 WSM pistol, maybe by Bond Arms, that gives a long enough bbl to clear 2100 fps out of a concealable bbl. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: I'm with you on that, which is why I mentioned that .22 Mag only makes sense out of small handguns (NAA Mini's, SW 351PD, Ruger LCR, Derringer) For small, light, low recoil guns, that is a good niche for .22 mag. My point is that once you go to a larger, heavier handgun, .22 Mag stops making much sense vs either .22LR CCI Stingers/Velocitors, or on the higher end, 5.7x28 and 9x19. Ultimately what we really need is a ".27 Magnum" based on the .27 nail gun blank used for the .17 WSM: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.17_Winchester_Super_Magnum .17 WSM shown on the far right: https://www.outdoorlife.com/g00/3_c-5eee.wcblwwztqnm.kwu_/c-5UWZMXPMCA09x24pbbx78ax3ax2fx2feee.wcblwwztqnm.kwux2fzmaqhmzx2fbQb1YIHYrJAi75XO9zT0rHrx78h48x3dx2f9230f9878x2fizk-ivotmznqap-izk0-x78zwl-jwvvqmz.a1.iuihwviea.kwux2fx78cjtqkx2fCQYNVX3S2ZOSVWDRW34E0RSMRI.rx78ox3fq98k.uizsx3dquiom_$/$/$/$/$/$/$ .22 Magnum = 24k psi SAAMI .27 Magnum / .17 WSM = 33k psi SAAMI Loaded with 45-60gr projectiles and pistol powders, a '.27 Magnum' would actually deliver on the hopes of a low recoil, high velocity rimfire handgun. She couldn't rack the Kel-Tec, so I put her in the long bbl Ruger SR-22, that she can run, and stoke it w/ 40 grn LRN. I'd be interesting in seeing a .17 WSM pistol, maybe by Bond Arms, that gives a long enough bbl to clear 2100 fps out of a concealable bbl. The pistol that really needs to be made is a .22 TCM polymer single stack w/ 4" barrel. 
Lightweight, low recoil, but with solid terminal performance. It would be the perfect CCW pistol for recoil sensitive shooters. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7UZWRsUXZWc |
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Posted: 12/8/2019 2:40:09 PM EDT
[#28]
when it comes to 22 mag pistols, there is only one... PMR-30
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Posted: 12/8/2019 6:30:00 PM EDT
[#29]
I like the price, weight, 1911 feel, and quality of the RIA XT22M...The Kel-Tec is decent for the price, however, the mag
capacity is listed as 30 rounds but it often can only fit 20 to 25 rounds to run reliably from what many have lamented... It is really nice to have a pistol that can fire .22 Mag with good capacity and have a companion rifle or carbine that can fire the same .22 Mag cartridge that is accurate, low recoil, and cheap to shoot... Good luck. Video link below: RIA XT22M |
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Posted: 12/9/2019 12:27:24 AM EDT
[#30]
For the same cost as the RIA .22 Mag, you can get the .22 TCM 1911 w/ 9mm conversion barrel:
https://www.budsgunshop.com/product_info.php/products_id/35225 You get much higher velocity, better reliability, and the ability to also shoot 9x19 with a simple barrel change. .22 TCM is only 0.29 per round vs 0.17-0.22 for .22 magnum, so really there's no reason to go .22 mag unless you are already invested in .22 mag. https://www.bulkcheapammo.com/handgun-ammo/22-tcm |
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Posted: 12/9/2019 8:18:48 PM EDT
[#31]
I'm not invested in 22 Mag at all. I have a Heritage RR with 22mag cylinder and two boxes of ammo.
since it goes 22TCM to 9mm, do barrels exist to take a 9mm to 22TCM? like a G19 barrel? |
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Posted: 12/9/2019 8:34:05 PM EDT
[#32]
Yes. 9x19mm guns convert to the .22 TCM 9R.
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Posted: 12/11/2019 10:05:25 PM EDT
[#33]
New PMR30 owner here. I have only fired 100 rounds out of it and as long as the mags were carefully loaded it functioned fine (mags were only loaded to 25 rounds). I rushed through loading one mag and had two failures to feed. But overall it shot great and was literally a blast to shoot!
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Posted: 12/14/2019 4:02:34 PM EDT
[#34]
You need to get the Nest loader. It's way easier than any other, including the new Maglula.
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Posted: 5/17/2020 12:20:45 AM EDT
[#35]
Anyone have the RIA XT22mag?... Looking for feedback
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Posted: 5/17/2020 12:45:43 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DOG556: Anyone have the RIA XT22mag?... Looking for feedback We have the top railed version at work. Looks solid & well-machined, decent trigger. It's got the now standard floating bbl w/ straight blowback bolt. Just got the CMR-30, so a PMR-30 is in my future. I now have my magazine in .22 WMR to collect - and an excuse for .22 WMR revolvers...
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