I have a Smith and Wesson 442 in satin nickel which Ive owned since the mid 90s.  I love it and will never sell it.

I have an opportunity to buy a Smith and Wesson 340 PD for $500 and I’m wondering if it would offer any advantages over my older 442?   I’ve read a lot about shooting 357 magnum out of it and I will not be doing this.    My older 442 will only shoot 38 special, I’m thinking I could at least upgrade to carrying 38 special +P in this new gun.

Does anyone own both or have experience with either or both? Thanks

I'd just stick with your current gun. I don't think the 340PD offers much over a 442. It's a tad bit lighter and handles more powerful ammo sure. But that's a recipe to be more painful to shoot also.

S&W gives a 38SPL +P rating to the 442, so you can carry with +P loads now.

If you're not going to shoot 357 Magnum in it then it offers very little if any benefit.  A slight weight reduction of 2.9 oz but you give up just a little bit of performance with 38 Special +P as you will loose a little velocity due to gas blow by in the longer 357 Magnum chamber.  In most cases its only 25-50fps but there is a minor loss.  Seems like a lot of money to spend for 2.9 oz of weight savings and a minor performance loss.

When I was looking for a snubby I borrowed a friends 340PD and it only took one cylinder of 357 Magnum to make me decide that a 442 Moonclip was the snubby for me.

Wife carries a 442 a lot when she's not carrying her shield and I carry a 340PD on occasion.

Both are good little guys outfitted with CT grips and actually the 340PD carries more easily due to the weight.

I don't understand all the fuss about 357 in the 340PD I don't think it is all that bad. Just keep in mind it is a carry piece and not an extended range session pistol.Heck if ya miss the bad guy he'll probably go to the hospital burn unit

It works extremely well in the role,but so does a 442,in true ARFCOM style buy it so you'll have both

I have both, and for ME the 340PD was worth it. That's an excellent price, and I'd be interested if you aren't. That's as cheap as I ever saw them back when they first came out, and they've only gone up since then.

The weight savings of the Airlite (340) over the Airweight (442) can be significant depending on your carry mode. For my use as an ankle carry backup, it's quite noticeable during some of my activities.

The sights are typically nicer than on the Airweights as the Airlites use pinned front sights that both come in various higher visibility options, and they can be switched out relatively easily as well. If you prefer the darker colors for concealment, the blackened and Ti 340PD is also more corrosion resistant than the blued steel cylinder and barrel of the 442.

The Magnum chambering is a bonus. You don't ever have to use it, but it's there if you ever want or need it. I don't carry Magnums for my normal loads, but it's nice to have the option. I've used it as an ultralight pocket carry while hiking in the mountains for protection against the spectrum of potential threats from snakes to bears to the two-legged variety - it handles snakeshot to heavy solids with equal aplomb. I've never truly felt threatened by or scared of any critters while hiking, but I believe in being prepared and this lets me be at very little weight penalty.

I would strongly recommend the Apex trigger kit if you get it. My 340PD had the worst S&W factory trigger I'd ever had the displeasure of using. It was 15+ lbs and not particularly smooth. Proper polishing and springs have dropped it to smooth and under 9 lbs, and absolutely reliable. My first group with the Apex parts was a 5-shot offhand group at 25 yards that was 4" including a called flyer, and under 2" in two doubles for the remaining four shots. I most likely would not have hit the target paper with the factory trigger at that range. I've installed a dozen or so of the kits, and all have realized markedly improved handling with it.

Now you should be honest with yourself about your tolerance to recoil. Physics tells you that you're going to get hit harder by the Airlite than the Airweight using a given load, and I can confirm that from extensive experience. When people who've asked me for help selecting a firearm and they've focused on a small revolver, I run them through numerous ones: long barreled steel, short barreled steel, Airweight, and Airlite. Very few show any continued interest in the Airlite after shooting it (even in .38). A couple exceptions have chosen smaller calibers (.22 and .32) as the weight was a more important feature to them.

I’ll echo what jowga said. IF you never intend to shoot .357 then stick with the 442. But that’s a great price.  My 340PD is light. I added the Apex springs and it made a huge difference. I also have CT Grips and an XS Sight. The light weight, with the option to use heavier loads, plus the peripherals, and lack of snag points,  makes it one of my preferred carry guns.

357 magnums out of my 340sc is torture. But still a nice gun and can actually get decent sights on it.

APEX trigger kit??? Can they be DIY?  Or do I need to send it in?  My 442 trigger is horrible.

Also wondering how .38 Specials shoot in the 340PD vs the 442 since the 442 is slightly heavier.

ETA: Just ordered the APEX kit new from Ebay.  Amazon didn't list it???  Anyway, install doesn't look too difficult.

If its the Duty/Carry spring kit its easy. Apex has a tutorial if you have never worked on a S&W before. I put the spring kit in my 438. It has a much lighter and smoother trigger pull than from the factory.

The Apex kit is easy to install, there are plenty of videos on-line including Apex's webpage for the J frame. Be sure you use a gunsmith's screwdriver so you don't bugger up the screws, do not pry the side plate off- use a nylon hammer or the butt of a screwdriver to tap and check the internal pieces for any areas that may need to be polished while you have it apart.  It's also a great time to install a plug or at least grind the nub off the safety so that it can't engage.  You don't need a rebound slide tool but it does make life a little bit easier.

The J frame 3-series definitely feels lighter in the hand than the 4/6 series, you wouldn't think it would be that noticeable but it is.  It's even more so when shooting it.  I have described shooting .357s in my 3" 360PD as feeling like someone smacked you across the web of the hand with a hammer handle.  I like shooting heavy loads in most handguns but the Scandium J frames are another story.  Even the +P .38s are noticeably harder recoiling than in my old 642- not bad, but you're probably not going to want to shoot a box of fifty.  I bought mine for a hiking gun so that I could carry 158gr .357s and it's great for that role, but if I were going to carry it every day I'd carry Speer 135gr Short Barrel .38s, like I do in my 642; easier and faster to put five rounds on target with the .38s.  They are definitely the proverbial carry a lot, shoot a little guns.

$500 is a great price for that gun and if you like snub nose Smiths I'd definitely grab it for that price.

As noted, there are numerous online tutorials on installing the trigger kit. Check the ones on Apex' site first of course, and those may be sufficient.

I'll repeat what others have said as it's important: use properly sized hollow ground screwdrivers for the sideplate screws as they are easily boogered, and use proper technique so you don't slip. Do NOT pry on the side plate - tap the opposite side or the grip frame with a non-metallic object (nylon handle of a screwdriver works) to jar the sideplate off.

As for internals, it may look imposing at first, but as it's a DAO trigger there are fewer parts to worry about. Think about taking some cell phone pictures before you disassemble so you can see exactly how YOUR gun was assembled so know how to get back there.

The rebound slide tool does make it easier, especially if you're new at it. It's probably the hardest step, and someone experienced at it makes it look easy. But it can be done with a small flathead screwdriver, so the special tool is not required - just be sure to wear safety glasses (always when working with springs) and try not to launch it if you don't pop it in correctly.

You can get major improvements just by installing the main (hammer) spring and the rebound (trigger return) springs - no polishing. But if you choose to polish - again, check online for tutorials. First step for me is the hammer strut - I polish to remove the sharp edges on the corners as that is where the main spring drags against under use, and a primary source of grittiness. Just cleaning that up should make a noticeable difference. Then smoothing out the sides of the rebound slide where it interfaces with the frame can provide a good improvements - however, MIM was used on this part by the time the 340 came out and I've never been able to get it as smooth as the earlier machined billet rebound slides - plus it is often smoother from the factory than the machined slides so provides decent service from the get-go, so will work ok if you decide to leave it alone. Finally, trigger and hammer interfaces can be polished, but the fitting is more critical there and your gains may not be as much. Won't go into detail here, but follow tutorials if you choose to touch those surfaces.

As for the firing pin itself - I wish Randy sold the mainspring and rebound spring by themselves in a kit for less. The firing pin appears to me to be fixing the issue of (as I've read) certain releases from S&W that had shortened firing pins to meet requirements such as CA's drop tests. Many of the guns I've measured have full-sized dimensioned firing pins and don't IMO benefit markedly from inclusion of the Apex firing pin. Where the Apex pin deviates noticeably is in the tapering of the pin itself - it focuses the impact on a smaller area of the primer, I imagine to ensure detonation of even stubborn primers due to slightly reduced impact force from the reduced power mainspring, but I've not experienced failures even when using the factory pin. So in some guns I've chosen not to use his pin, although I've only had one instance where his pin caused an issue (which is when I first considered not using it). It was in my .32 Magnum Airlite, and I got pierced primers with magnum loads using it, and never got them with the factory firing pin (that had same engagement length but larger impact diameter). I swapped it back to the factory pin and had zero issues since.

As to Apex' spring weights versus other companies' - I've tried several others, including Wilson and Wolff multiweight kits, and none of their weights have worked out as smoothly or lightly as the Apex ones, all while consistently providing reliable performance with zero light strikes on about a dozen J-frames I've done. Randy had come up with a magic spring weight that I'm happy with and so will pay the extra price for even if I don't always use his firing pin (again, my only failure has been in an Airlite .32 Magnum while shooting magnums of one particular brand, so I've not really been concerned with it in the .38-chambered models). A gunsmith friend who previously wound his own springs for his S&W trigger jobs tried one of my Apexed revolvers and has since gone over to using them as it's cheaper for him to do that than invest his time in making his own spring and he feels it gives him equivalent results.

So a shortened version of the firing pin discussion - IF you choose to run magnum loads in your 340 AND you've installed the Apex firing pin, I'd recommend inspecting the primers of fired cartridges closely to see if there is any cause for concern. If not, continue on. If there is, compare FP lengths between that one and the factory one, and if the same, I'd replace the factory pin and just confirm it functions properly. Just something to be aware of.

Full disclosure - I've not bought an Apex kit recently. I bought a stack years ago and have put them in most of my and my friends' J-frames. After the one concern with the firing pin mentioned above, I wrote Randy at Apex to inform him of it. He may have altered his design to address it, or I may have had the one exception ever as the 332 Airlite is not that popular of a gun.

Love both of my 340 PD's. .357 is a handfull but manageable for me. I also have several 442's that have their place.

However, the weight difference for pocket carry was enough to choose the 340 over the 442.

If I only had the 442 it would not be a problem to pocket carry but given the choice...

On the 340's I filled out the grips with some sports tape which helped my hands quite a bit.

The revolver is light, accurate and with the Mika pocket holster, always there.

What ammo are you loading out for carry in those things?  I'm still playing with quite a few diff types to see what recoil is manageable.  I am thinking Fed HST .38 right now.  I wont be carrying .357 in this gun (340pd)

Speer Gold Dot Short Barrel Ammunition 38 Special +P 135 Grain Jacketed Hollow Point

Hits where I aim, clean, performs well according to people who do actual testing and in my informal testing, never had an issue with various Speer GDHP loads in multiple calibers.  In the woods I sometimes load 158gr SWC or SWCHP and when paddling, depending on where I'm going, I'll put a CCI shot round as the first cartridge in rotation.  I still need to order some of the CCI Big4 to try that.

Speer Gold Dot.  357 Mag 125 gr. GDHP #23920.

Shoots point of aim at 15 yds with Dave Lauck custom sights.

i love my 340PD. Had various 442/642 and always came back to it. Just carries so perfectly. Nice to have the option for magnums too.

$500 for a lightweight 357/38?  I would be all over that..........love my 340PD, I pulled the safety lock added a plug, lightened the trigger with new springs, and got rid of the goofy hammer.......replaced it with the 638 shrouded hammer and absolutely love it........did the work at home and with a friend, we are no gunsmiths and was fairly easy to do with youtube.

I bought a 442 Pro for $339 it is sitting at the dealer waiting to be picked up. I plan to install the Apex trigger and send the cylinder out to be cut for 9MM.
I sold my Sig 938 arthritis is causing me trouble squeezing anything so working a slide was painful. I worrried that if I had to use the Sig in a self defense situation and had a jam I'd be hard pressed to clear it quickly.

Carried my 340PD all weekend in my front jeans pocket, felt good having it readily available!

Yep.

Well I've been switching between the 340PD and a Colt Dick Special I had shrouded.  I just can't get past hiw much I love carrying the 340PD.  The Colt is great and conceals well but the weight factor of the 340PD on my hip all day is simply edc bliss.

Also I think I shoot the 340 better than the Colt.  I'm  considering putting some after market sights on her but don't much feel like sending the gun out to do that.  I really like your sights @Unkydon.

Thanks,

Dave Lauck did a good job.

The turnaround was not that bad and because I had two 340 PD's the wait was not that big of a deal.

The model you're actually looking for is the M&P 340CT (NO LOCK MODEL)

Best J-Frame ever made IMO. I dumped my PD for it and have never looked back.

The 340PD is available no-lock.

Both of my 340PD'S are no lock.

340PD no lock

No lock here.



I'll have to consider sending in my gun.  I should have gone to Spring Training this year and seen if they could fit me in.  

Eta:  @Unkydon Did you have to file your sites down/adjust them after you got the gun back?

No. You tell him what load you want to carry and he sets it up to shoot the point of impact you decide using that ammo.

So if you want a point of impact of 1/2" high at 21 feet that is what he gives you.

Wow, sounds like he knows customer service.  Thanks for the info.  I'll definitely have to consider this route.

I enjoyed working with him.

The no lock feature wasn't the basis for dumping my PD for the 340CT. My PD was no lock as well. Great gun, just not as good as the 340CT.

Factory night sights, slightly heavier cylinder (stainless not titanium), CT's best J-Frame grips (arguably the single most functional improvement to any snub nose revolver) and a noticeably better trigger. Plus it's not (to me) that butt ugly two tone color scheme.

I'm of the complete opposite opinion.  If you are going light weight you may as well go as light as possible.  I hate night sights, I prefer to align the top of the sights for aiming(or even better would be plain rears and a gold bead front sight).  Finally, I use the Hip Grip, T Grip, wrap combo so CT is useless.

On a side note I do like the two tone looks as well.

Different mindset for different folks.

Great discussion guys. My deal on the 340PD feel through, but I think I found a good deal on a used M&P340, so that’s going to be it. I will then sell my old 442.

Yup, different mindset, different folks. I get that.

I'll explain my reasoning,

Lots of guys who own J-Frames are old school in their thinking. They like the plain Jane Detective Specials and the simple utility they provide. I, on the other hand, view defensive guns similarly across the board in that I seek the best possible feature set that will provide every single advantage possible and that extends to J-Frames as well.

I view my J-Frames as kind of an "Oh shit" guns. They are the least fun to shoot at the range of all of my handguns but excel in terms of easy carry and handiness in situations where a full sized semiauto just isn't super practical. J-Frames have a role but they involve sacrifices. Snappy recoil. Typically small grips. Generally the worst sight picture of almost any handgun short of a Derringer. Limited capacity.

I find that the M&P 340CT addresses all of these compromises better than any other J-Frame, including the PD.

1) Because snub nosed revolvers tend to be snappy shooters, the modest but additional weight of a stainless cylinder v. a titanium cylinder aids in recoil mitigation to some degree. It in no way inhibits it's ease of carry, but when actually shooting the gun, makes for a little less snappiness, a little quicker "back on target" functionality after the 1st shot. The slight added weight in this case is actually useful and noticeable.

2) As for night sights. Not sure what to say about this other than what's plainly obvious. Half of your life is at night. Lots of scenarios where light is not abundant or even present. To have illumination (tritium) to simply be able to see your front and rear sights just doesn't strike me, under any circumstance, as a negative. Quite the opposite. I have night sights on almost every handgun that I own and I see no reason why a J-Frame should be an exception to that. Particularly since mounting a light isn't an option.

3) The CT grips. These seem to be somewhat controversial to some, particularly when discussing them in regards to J-Frames, which strikes me as odd, as the J-Frame is the one platform that actually benefits the most from these grips. The J-Frame's inherent limitations are not only weak sight pictures, but their generally accepted use cases are either as a BUG or a flat out CCW compromise in a number of ways in exchange for ease of carry. In a defensive situation when a J-Frame is your only option, one will generally find themselves point shooting far more than one will be carefully aligning the front and rear sights. Speed on target and ultimately accuracy are flat out deciding factors in these cases.

The CT grips that come with the M&P 340CT's are outstanding. They have added cushion for the web of your hand, where these little guns tend to take their toll the heaviest. The grips, though still small, are generally far more comfortable and ergonomically designed then almost any stock snub nosed revolver grips, barring exchanging them all together for full sized grips. Additionally, the rapid deployment of the laser allows extreme accuracy with zero need to align the front and rear sights. Shit, I can put lead on target shooting from my hip. Speed and accuracy win gun fights. No two ways about that. Given the capacity limitations of these small revolvers (5-6 rounds at best), I am of the belief that I had better make damn sure those few rounds end up EXACTLY where they're intended to go. And do so under extreme duress. The laser is in no way a substitute for practicing and proficiency using irons alone. They serve as an enormous advantage in the categories of accuracy and speed under difficult circumstances, and when I have 1/3 the number of rounds at my disposal that I'd have with my semi autos, those 5-6 rounds are even more precious to me. The laser assures that those few rounds will end up precisely where they are intended.

I can shoot accurately, with a very small, very light gun, with a very short barrel and generally weak sight picture, from any position. On my back. From my hip. From pretty much any disadvantageous firing position one could imagine and do so with extreme speed and accuracy. J-Frames light weight, short barrels and sight pictures provide advantages only in respect to ease of carry. When these guns are deployed, however, those advantages turn in to disadvantages in respect to accuracy. The CT grips are nothing short of a game changer when viewed in a variety of defensive shooting scenarios and provide zero disadvantages. They are simply one more, highly effective option that increases the likelihood of a survivable outcome, and that's the ultimate goal.

So if some prefer a traditional, bare bones snub nose, that's great. I on the other hand don't carry guns for traditional sentimentality. I carry to defend my life. With that said, every single advantage I can provide myself is an advantage worth having. The slight added weight, the ability to actually see my front and rear sight in darkness if needed, a grip that does a better job of filling my hand and mitigating recoil and the ability to accurately shoot from any position in a high stress situation while working with extremely limited capacity are all reasons I prefer the modernization of these classic revolvers. The 340CT has done absolutely everything to provide me with that.

Any gun is better than no gun and at close to $1K new, I get why many don't care to spend that kind of money on a little wheel gun. With that said, I've yet to hear a single compelling argument as to why the features mentioned above are a waste of time or money.

While I definitely get what you are saying and would never try to dissuade anyone from your style of carry, in my experience the CT grips TO ME, feel as though they are really only useful for the first shot.  After that I'm trying to "chase/find the lazer" having only used them on a 1911 and XD I have a rather limited experience.  As for night sights, if I can't make out the target and only can make out my sights in the dark I feel it is poor target identification and the shot should not be taken.  Although I can see how someone would like them if they are more comfortable with a three dot style sighting system.  Also in my HIGHLY UNSCIENTIFIC experience I can "cylinder dump"/get back on target at roughly 15-20 feet about the same as my 640 or Colt Detective Special as with my 340PD and don't see much advantage/disadvantage to the titanium cylinder.  On a side note I purchased my 340pd for about 725 new plus transfer and ffl fees.  At this point I think we are debating more so training on your self defense weapon however rather than the gun it self.

All that being said, I can definitely see your side of the coin and if people feel more comfortable with the 340M&P set up I would definitely encourage them to take that route.  You make very valid and well thought out points, and to be honest I was torn between the 340M&P and 340PD until I finally found a 340PD for the "low" price I mentioned above.

Eta:  grammar/spelling

Whatever you choose, you need to shoot it regularly and practice with each hand.

Lately my weekly 340PD ammo consumption is about 100 - 150 rds of 38 special along with 5 - 10 rounds of 357.

I admit that may be excessive but I enjoy it and the 340PD is holding up just fine.

Where can a 442 be bought for 339? I am looking for one for my wife.   Also what is no lock?

I have and carry a 360.
Love it and would never sell it.
I also carry the Gold Dot Short Barrel rounds in .357 and .38+P

Dave N

Found myself a good used M&P 340, get it in 10 days. Thanks everyone, great comments!

I got one of the first 442 Pros when Smith offered them in 10/11'  Ordered straight from Smith on the military discount from Afghanistan.  Have since painted the front site white/orange and later added a set of CT laser grips.  Its my EDC whenever I'm home.  I cast a 125gr Lead TC and load it to replicate my carry ammo's point of aim/impact.  I do shoot +P out of mine and don't think I need the .357 blast/recoil and added expense of the 340.



CD