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PA has come a long way, long way from where they started in the optics game, that's for sure. This is going to be the only other American-made pistol mailbox outside of the Trijicon, right? Also, TBH, I feel Primary Arms deserves enormous respect for going from selling rebranded budget Chinesium optics to making innovative optics right here in the U.S. of A. Feels like many companies usually go the opposite route unfortunately. 
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I like it, would buy - already have one of theirs that work and looks great ETA their whole video presentation at this link, brilliant functionality Video here |
Attached File Failed To Load Title And if you're not sure who that guy is (who made the Facebook post). Attached File  Cheap vs Expensive Red Dots: What's the Difference? |
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Quoted: Ugh the price, definitely made in America. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/113559/IMG_3459_jpeg-3428111.JPG Attached File Oh well. Lots of people say they'll pay more for an innovative product that's made (and fully sourced) in America. Here's their chance 
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At that price point there’s no way they’re going to move very many units. That’s ACRO P2 pricing. Actually even more if you look around. Can’t see how that many people are going to choose PA’s first US made pistol dot ever over other brands that are more proven at that price point. |
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Quoted: PA has come a long way, long way from where they started in the optics game, that's for sure. This is going to be the only other American-made pistol mailbox outside of the Trijicon, right? Also, TBH, I feel Primary Arms deserves enormous respect for going from selling rebranded budget Chinesium optics to making innovative optics right here in the U.S. of A. Feels like many companies usually go the opposite route unfortunately. By mailbox, I'm going to assume you mean enclosed. There is another, the SIG Romeo-X enclosed just came out a few months ago. As far as I can tell the Romeo-X is the only USA made RMSC pattern optic on the market. It does not appear this new PA HTX-1 will come with an RMSC plate. The Romeo-X is also available in the DPP pattern. I don't think the price on this is out of line. The MSRP of a Trijicon SRO is $822, and the RMR is $779 to $835 depending on model, discounting the special mount options. A better comparison might be the enclosed model Trijicon RCR with an MSRP of $1019. The MSRP of the SIG Romeo-X enclosed compact (RMSC) was $630 to $650, and for the DPP was $690 to $720 depending on the reticle. So the PA HTX-1 having an MSRP of $700 to $750 depending on the reticle is right in the ballpark of the other current USA made options, and is considerably less than the Trijicon RCR. Real world price is likely to be very close to what we see from the SIG Romeo-X enclosed near or under $500. I don't see that big of a deal with open emitters, but I don't see any problem with closed ones either. I'm certainly glad to see another USA made option out there, and I hope it turns out to be a good one. I am certainly interested in buying one. |
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Quoted: Ugh the price, definitely made in America. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/113559/IMG_3459_jpeg-3428111.JPG Damn. |
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Quoted: I don't think the price on this is out of line. The MSRP of a Trijicon SRO is $822, and the RMR is $779 to $835 depending on model, discounting the special mount options. A better comparison might be the enclosed model Trijicon RCR with an MSRP of $1019. The MSRP of the SIG Romeo-X enclosed compact (RMSC) was $630 to $650, and for the DPP was $690 to $720 depending on the reticle. So the PA HTX-1 having an MSRP of $700 to $750 depending on the reticle is right in the ballpark of the other current USA made options, and is considerably less than the Trijicon RCR. Real world price is likely to be very close to what we see from the SIG Romeo-X enclosed near or under $500. I don't necessarily disagree, and think many were expecting "budget" pricing from PA, when this is a really feature rich optic. It's got to perform though. |
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Quoted: I don't necessarily disagree, and think many were expecting "budget" pricing from PA, when this is a really feature rich optic. It's got to perform though. It always throws me for a loop in threads like this because I come from more of a riflescope background. A $400-$500 scope is lower end, and you are looking at north of $2000 for a truly good riflescope. Then to see people balking at what is likely to be $500 for a USA made premium red dot, it's so strange. I really wish I could get a Leupold Mark 5 for $500. 
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Quoted: It always throws me for a loop in threads like this because I come from more of a riflescope background. A $400-$500 scope is lower end, and you are looking at north of $2000 for a truly good riflescope. Then to see people balking at what is likely to be $500 for a USA made premium red dot, it's so strange. I really wish I could get a Leupold Mark 5 for $500. Odd that you see it that way. The best pistol optics are $600-$700. Several of us have $3,000 rifle scopes who wouldn’t spend PA’s $700 asking price for their optic. Also, none of us have a clue if it’s “premium” or not. Just because it’s US made doesn’t make it good or proven. That comes with time. Hence why they have an uphill battle to fight. Other optics in that price have been around for a long time and ARE proven to be premium optics. |
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Quoted: Odd that you see it that way. The best pistol optics are $600-$700. Several of us have $3,000 rifle scopes who wouldn’t spend PA’s $700 asking price for their optic. Also, none of us have a clue if it’s “premium” or not. Just because it’s US made doesn’t make it good or proven. That comes with time. Hence why they have an uphill battle to fight. Other optics in that price have been around for a long time and ARE proven to be premium optics. It's more of a proportionate thing. A decent low cost red dot could be a Holosun in the $350 range, and I've seen people argue a Trijicon RMR is way too much at $550. It's not even twice the price. Compare that to rifle scopes, The difference between an Arken at $350 to a Nightforce at $2400 is almost 7:1. When it comes to optics, $200 is not worth considering in my mind, and while you are 100% correct this new PA red dot is unproven, I think it's odd for people to automatically discount it based on cost, which really isn't that high at all in the optics world. |
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Quoted: PA has come a long way, long way from where they started in the optics game, that's for sure. This is going to be the only other American-made pistol mailbox outside of the Trijicon, right? Also, TBH, I feel Primary Arms deserves enormous respect for going from selling rebranded budget Chinesium optics to making innovative optics right here in the U.S. of A. Feels like many companies usually go the opposite route unfortunately. My very first rifle was an MSAR E4 (  ) and my very first optic was from PA. They were maybe the only game in town making affordable optics in 2010. They deserve a ton of credit for introducing affordable optics into the mainstream civilian shooting community and all the smaller companies that followed afterwards. Even if they are/were Chinese made.I'm happy they went all US for this optic and will definitely purchase one later in the year when I pick up an RXM. |
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Quoted: It's more of a proportionate thing. A decent low cost red dot could be a Holosun in the $350 range, and I've seen people argue a Trijicon RMR is way too much at $550. It's not even twice the price. Compare that to rifle scopes, The difference between an Arken at $350 to a Nightforce at $2400 is almost 7:1. When it comes to optics, $200 is not worth considering in my mind, and while you are 100% correct this new PA red dot is unproven, I think it's odd for people to automatically discount it based on cost, which really isn't that high at all in the optics world. First, I like PA and have a bunch of their stuff. I also own rmr's, holosun's and P2's. I think people are balking at the price because you can get a trijicon rmr cheaper, RCR is only $100-$150 more and acro p2's at the same price and often cheaper during sales. If they want to get these out there and have regular folks use these, they need to drop that price way down. The normal, everyday joe is going to buy a holosun because it's 40% less. They don't care if its chinesium, they just want an optic on their pistol. If I was going to spend $600-$700 on a new enclosed pistol optic, why would I choose this over an rcr, p2 or even the new COA? Ill probably buy one to try it out if the price drops and I hope it does sell well and its awesome seeing PA come out with new American made stuff, but I just don't see someone choosing this above the more proven optics out there at the price point. |
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Quoted: First, I like PA and have a bunch of their stuff. I also own rmr's, holosun's and P2's. I think people are balking at the price because you can get a trijicon rmr cheaper, RCR is only $100-$150 more and acro p2's at the same price and often cheaper during sales. If they want to get these out there and have regular folks use these, they need to drop that price way down. The normal, everyday joe is going to buy a holosun because it's 40% less. They don't care if its chinesium, they just want an optic on their pistol. If I was going to spend $600-$700 on a new enclosed pistol optic, why would I choose this over an rcr, p2 or even the new COA? Ill probably buy one to try it out if the price drops and I hope it does sell well and its awesome seeing PA come out with new American made stuff, but I just don't see someone choosing this above the more proven optics out there at the price point. I agree that PA has an uphill battle on their hands; any newcomer shooting for the king will. But I think the value proposition is there relative to other enclosed optics. Cheaper than RCR. Doesn't require new iron sights. Doesn't require mounting plates. More feature rich. It will likely be a $2-500 cheaper than an RCR when all is said and done (depending on your aftermarket selections). Cost is heavily in favor of the HTX when considering the whole package. It really just comes down to convincing people its performance is on par or better than the RCR. Hopefully PA has invested in plenty of R&D and influencer marketing to make this a reality. (No comparison to ACRO here since the ACRO is junk) |
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Quoted: I agree that PA has an uphill battle on their hands; any newcomer shooting for the king will. But I think the value proposition is there relative to other enclosed optics. Cheaper than RCR. Doesn't require new iron sights. Doesn't require mounting plates. More feature rich. It will likely be a $2-500 cheaper than an RCR when all is said and done (depending on your aftermarket selections). Cost is heavily in favor of the HTX when considering the whole package. It really just comes down to convincing people its performance is on par or better than the RCR. Hopefully PA has invested in plenty of R&D and influencer marketing to make this a reality. (No comparison to ACRO here since the ACRO is junk) Unless something changes in the future even the PA guy in their industry forum thread said the optic won't get into the $500 dollar range because it's not just American assembled, it's American made! It does require plates, unless I'm missing something? Attached File Two screws for plate to slide. Four screws to the optic, two front, and one into each side. Ameriglo suppressor sights are usually around $50-$60 if someone wants to add which isnt even that big of a deal. If I had to guess off the top off my head, I probably have around 5000rds on my oldest p2 without a single issue, which is nothing compared to alot of them. I think they are far from junk. I don't know dude, we will just have to see how they hold up but I just don't see the value. |
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Quoted: Unless something changes in the future even the PA guy in their industry forum thread said the optic won't get into the $500 dollar range because it's not just American assembled, it's American made! It does require plates, unless I'm missing something? https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/310007/1000007451_jpg-3428215_jpeg-3428763.JPG Two screws for plate to slide. Four screws to the optic, two front, and one into each side. Ameriglo suppressor sights are usually around $50-$60 if someone wants to add which isnt even that big of a deal. If I had to guess off the top off my head, I probably have around 5000rds on my oldest p2 without a single issue, which is nothing compared to alot of them. I think they are far from junk. I don't know dude, we will just have to see how they hold up but I just don't see the value. Yeah, it does include plates. Poor phrasing on my part. I should have said, "It doesn't need aftermarket plates like CHP or FCD." Definitely won't get into $500 range. Agreed. It will likely sell for MSRP, but that's still cheaper than an RCR. Combine no purchase of sights or plates and you're still saving a few hundo. But yeah, needs to perform. I hope it does. Really want to see an American optic succeed. |
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Quoted: Yeah, it does include plates. Poor phrasing on my part. I should have said, "It doesn't need aftermarket plates like CHP or FCD." Definitely won't get into $500 range. Agreed. It will likely sell for MSRP, but that's still cheaper than an RCR. Combine no purchase of sights or plates and you're still saving a few hundo. But yeah, needs to perform. I hope it does. Really want to see an American optic succeed. Quoted: Yeah, it does include plates. Poor phrasing on my part. I should have said, "It doesn't need aftermarket plates like CHP or FCD." Definitely won't get into $500 range. Agreed. It will likely sell for MSRP, but that's still cheaper than an RCR. Combine no purchase of sights or plates and you're still saving a few hundo. But yeah, needs to perform. I hope it does. Really want to see an American optic succeed. Ok, yeah, I didn't know if there was a model being released that somehow didn't use plates and I missed it. I still haven't seen what the plates are made of yet though. Plates are the weak part in that type of mounting. It doesn't matter if the optic clamps to a plate securely, if a plate comes off, the optics coming off as well, no matter how strong the clamp is. Quoted:Really want to see an American optic succeed We all do, I hope. Its going to take awhile for it to be really tested though. I'm assuming they sent a bunch off and there will be a ton of reviews on them popping up shortly, but with everything, you have to take all that with a grain of salt. I like to see other peoples options, but I really need to use it myself to get a true option of it. I just won't do it at that price range yet. |
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Quoted: I like american made and low mounted. But 6 screws to mount the optic? Defeating the the unofficial industry standard RMR footprint, while keeping it low, and making it enclosed will always cost something. 6 screws is it. From the looks of it you could probably get away with using 3 if it was important to you
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Why do you think it will sell for MSRP? I haven't seen that on other optics. SIG Romeo-X enclosed compact MSRP was $650, and I bought it right off the SIG website for $499. Trijicon RMR MSRP is $779, and they are $550 at my local store. They are under $500 on Optics Planet (first place I checked). Trijicon RCR has an MSRP of a whopping $1019, but is listed on Optics Planet (first place I checked) for $774. The MSRP of this HTX-1 is similar, but less than an RMR. I see no reason why it wouldn't be selling in the $500's range. Doing the math the SIG is 23% below MSRP, RMR 29% below MSRP, and RCR 24% below MSRP. So all three very close to 25% less. If that trend follows the HTX-1 should be $525 to $575 street price. |
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Quoted: Why do you think it will sell for MSRP? I haven't seen that on other optics. SIG Romeo-X enclosed compact MSRP was $650, and I bought it right off the SIG website for $499. Trijicon RMR MSRP is $779, and they are $550 at my local store. They are under $500 on Optics Planet (first place I checked). The MSRP of this HTX-1 is similar, but less than an RMR. I see no reason why it wouldn't be selling in the $500's range. I didn't say it will sell for msrp. Listing for $650-$700 as stated above. I said the PA rep stated that they won't get to $500 in my post above, but it was actually Marshall Lerner the CEO of Primary Arms that said that. He said you can buy a co-branded holosun if you want to be around the $500 mark. |
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Quoted: So the regular dot version is listed at $650 for the special pre-purchase that wont come out for months. Give it till summer when they actually come out, there's no way that price doesn't come down after the pre-release. Maybe not $550, but I would be really shocked if they didn't put a $599 price tag on it. Yeah, it will probably settle around the $600 mark like I said in my first post this morning. But I'll choose a p2 or spend a little more and get an rcr if I needed another optic at that price. That is until the price drops a couple hundred or its turns out to be the bees knees and I must have it. |
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Quoted: Yeah, it will probably settle around the $600 mark like I said in my first post this morning. But I'll choose a p2 or spend a little more and get an rcr if I needed another optic at that price. That is until the price drops a couple hundred or its turns out to be the bees knees and I must have it. I think the price is unlikely to drop a couple hundred on the regular, but just like the ACRO and RCR, there will be sales and the secondary market. I like how they accomplished everything I was looking for (enclosed, standard battery, RMR footprint) without appearing as a tumor on my pistol. Now, we just wait to see how it behaves our in the wild. |
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This is a good option if it has better reliability than the ACRO. The RCR mounting system may be strong but it’s a turnoff mechanically speaking. The COA is a proprietary slide. The holosun is CHYNA Seems like a win. I’d consider it on my G19 if my SCS MOS takes a dump. |
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Quoted: PA has come a long way, long way from where they started in the optics game, that's for sure. This is going to be the only other American-made pistol mailbox outside of the Trijicon, right? Also, TBH, I feel Primary Arms deserves enormous respect for going from selling rebranded budget Chinesium optics to making innovative optics right here in the U.S. of A. Feels like many companies usually go the opposite route unfortunately. We hate on other companies because of this and that and bitch about where it comes from. Here's a chance to see, in 2025, what a completely fresh SKU could look like made in the USA. Maybe $700 is what it costs to do it right. Again I hope it's a smash hit. |
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Quoted: By mailbox, I'm going to assume you mean enclosed. There is another, the SIG Romeo-X enclosed just came out a few months ago. As far as I can tell the Romeo-X is the only USA made RMSC pattern optic on the market. It does not appear this new PA HTX-1 will come with an RMSC plate. The Romeo-X is also available in the DPP pattern. Good catch, I'd forgotten about that. However, are the Sig sights actually "made in U.S.A.", or just "assembled in the U.S.A."? I imagine for many potential buyers, they will be hesitant to spend this kind of money unless the optic unequivocally claims the former. |
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Quoted: Good catch, I'd forgotten about that. However, are the Sig sights actually "made in U.S.A.", or just "assembled in the U.S.A."? I imagine for many potential buyers, they will be hesitant to spend this kind of money unless the optic unequivocally claims the former. It is as made in the USA as can reasonably be expected. All machined, built, assembled here. |
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Quoted: It is as made in the USA as can reasonably be expected. All machined, built, assembled here. I just double-checked, looks like the Sig offerings are all listed and marked as "assembled in U.S.A.", while the Trijicons are marked "made in U.S.A.". Just how much more "American-made" that might make the Trijicon vs. the Sig though, I can't say. Related segue: the Vortex Razor AMG 6x-24x was, IIRCC, initially 100% American-made, but Vortex ran into issues with it's reticle supply, so had to start importing those from Germany. The scopes where subsequently labeled "Made In USA With German Reticle". So, if someone is truly making 99% of an optic in America, with just one foreign component used (since it can't be sourced domestically), there is precedent to label it exactly as such. |
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Quoted: I just double-checked, looks like the Sig offerings are all listed and marked as "assembled in U.S.A.", while the Trijicons are marked "made in U.S.A.". Just how much more "American-made" that might make the Trijicon vs. the Sig though, I can't say. Related segue: the Vortex Razor AMG 6x-24x was, IIRCC, initially 100% American-made, but Vortex ran into issues with it's reticle supply, so had to start importing those from Germany. The scopes where subsequently labeled "Made In USA With German Reticle". So, if someone is truly making 99% of an optic in America, with just one foreign component used (since it can't be sourced domestically), there is precedent to label it exactly as such. Watch the videos of them making them. The SIG Romeo-X is as made in the USA as you could ever reasonably expect. That applies to all their red dots as far as I know. As much of the hard parts like the main body as possible are made by Sig in the USA, Oregon I think. Individual electronic components are outsourced, but even then I'm pretty sure Sig is building their own circuit boards in the same plant. I have no idea where the glass is from. I don't see how someone could expect a product to be more made in the USA than this. |
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Been a busy few days but I will monitor this thread for any follow up. I should add that the first optics we sold was almost 20 years ago. We had no website at the time I was just posting on this forum. The work on this started over 3 years ago. We had specific requirements that we set out to meet. Prototypes have been in people's hands for close to two years. Many were tested with the intent of finding any failure points. Yes we found them and did many revisions to get to where we are today. Our worldwide dealer network has evaluated them and placed orders. We consider our own .com in this and they put up their first batch for March delivery yesterday and the ACSS version has already sold out. I have not checked today but we probably have more ordered than we can produce until the 4th quarter. All dealers get allocation so you will see pre orders or availability off and on throughout the year. This is something I posted in another thread where someone was asking about the mounting interface. From our head of engineering who designed handguns before coming to PA. He understands the stress on the optic. "On MOS interface it uses the front and back of the slot just like the MOS plate itself for in line recoil and the central rib for any lateral Gs. On RMR it uses either the forward bosses for type A or threaded bosses for type B. Our screws are made in the US with cold rolled steel alloy. Grade 10.5. They are not a point of failure. The carriage then has two m3 threaded bosses for inline recoil and the lateral fins for horizontal. In our well over 100,000 rounds of testing we have never had a screw fail on any interface. Additionally, we did weeks of accelerometer testing on dozens of pistols slides and the better part of a year designing a recoil tester to simulate the 8000g forces (it sees that force twice starting and stopping). Every unit goes through 8000g impact testing on our test rig before being inspected." Thanks!!! Marshall |
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When I get to a point where I am considering enclosed emitter dots this one will be on my short list. I’d like to say that I’m shocked and dismayed with the number of comments that are critical of the introductory price for an American made optic with the options, features, and advancements that this optic appears to provide. But mostly just dismayed. |
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Quoted: When I get to a point where I am considering enclosed emitter dots this one will be on my short list. I'd like to say that I'm shocked and dismayed with the number of comments that are critical of the introductory price for an American made optic with the options, features, and advancements that this optic appears to provide. But mostly just dismayed. Chinese made optics are able to take advantage of cheap labor and access to raw materials not subject to pesky environmental regulations and bureaucracy. Sadly most Americans either don't realize it or willingly ignore those facts to get the cheaper price. |