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Quoted: Chinese made optics are able to take advantage of cheap labor and access to raw materials not subject to pesky environmental regulations and bureaucracy. Sadly most Americans either don't realize it or willingly ignore those facts to get the cheaper price. I wish more people would think about the real cost, not just the USD cost sometimes. There is also a perception that this is very expensive. While it might be when compared to some other red dots, everyone keeps talking about the RMR, the two main competitors are the Trijicon RCR, and the Sig Romeo-X enclosed, both are brand new, unproven enclosed red dots made in the USA. The Acro P-2 is also a competitor, although made in Sweden. This also brand new made in the USA enclosed red dot from Primary arms is dead center in price between Trijicon and Sig, and is very close in price to the Acro. I don't think the Trijicon RCR is flying off store shelves. I think PA is positioned perfectly for the product they seem to be bringing to the table. |
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@Marsh1 I respect you chiming in. For the record I have had nothing but positive experiences with PSA optics. I am surprised PA flew a new product at such a price point under the Primary Arms banner. For twenty years PA has become synonymous with Asian produced low cost consumer grade optics. It will take a major shift in perception of the PA brand to believe this is a quality domestically produced product to justify the price point. PA would have been better off launching it under a new brand name Additionally the American consumer has become used to inflated pricing of optics, particularly from companies like PA. When I saw the $700 MSRP, the first thing I thought was, "What will the Daily Deal price be?" It is analogous to Volkswagen marketing a luxury vehicle at Bugatti prices under the VW nameplate. One reason consumers are willing to pay higher prices for brands like Trijicon and Aimpoint is because of their agency approval and use. Those companies are able to achieve economies of scale due to their government funded contracts. I think PA has a steep hill to climb to become domestically accepted for widespread military or law enforcement use. It is a chicken or the egg proposition. The only logic I can see behind this product launch is a good, better, best model. By offering a "best" model a high price point, a "good" model may be sold at a higher overall profit margin. |
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Quoted: @Marsh1 I respect you chiming in. For the record I have had nothing but positive experiences with PSA optics. I am surprised PA flew a new product at such a price point under the Primary Arms banner. For twenty years PA has become synonymous with Asian produced low cost consumer grade optics. It will take a major shift in perception of the PA brand to believe this is a quality domestically produced product to justify the price point. PA would have been better off launching it under a new brand name Additionally the American consumer has become used to inflated pricing of optics, particularly from companies like PA. When I saw the $700 MSRP, the first thing I thought was, "What will the Daily Deal price be?" It is analogous to Volkswagen marketing a luxury vehicle at Bugatti prices under the VW nameplate. One reason consumers are willing to pay higher prices for brands like Trijicon and Aimpoint is because of their agency approval and use. Those companies are able to achieve economies of scale due to their government funded contracts. I think PA has a steep hill to climb to become domestically accepted for widespread military or law enforcement use. It is a chicken or the egg proposition. The only logic I can see behind this product launch is a good, better, best model. By offering a "best" model a high price point, a "good" model may be sold at a higher overall profit margin. Maybe it's just my reading comprehension, but I think you are conflating Palmetto State armory and Primary Arms. |
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Quoted: Nope. Though I did use them as an example of a retailer known to discount optics well below MSRP as to encourage impulse buying. Quoted: Quoted: Maybe it's just my reading comprehension, but I think you are conflating Palmetto State armory and Primary Arms. Nope. Though I did use them as an example of a retailer known to discount optics well below MSRP as to encourage impulse buying. PSA is also known to have ridiculously inflated MSRPs and to pass quality control on to their customers. Nothing I would expect from Primary Arms. |
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If you start comparing apples to apples...... 509ACSS $450 made in chyna HTX1 $750 made in America Not counting the other advantages the HTX1 should have, it's $300 extra (list price) to be made here. For normal people, they might want one really good optic and won't replace it for years. This isn't priced that awfully. Quoted: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/551633/1000026128_png-3428177.JPG  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dOobX-2RW5IAnd if you're not sure who that guy is (who made the Facebook post). https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/551633/1000026130_png-3428183.JPG https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7C9JWIjP6U |
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Quoted: If you start comparing apples to apples...... 509ACSS $450 made in chyna HTX1 $750 made in America Not counting the other advantages the HTX1 should have, it's $300 extra (list price) to be made here. For normal people, they might want one really good optic and won't replace it for years. This isn't priced that awfully. Only time will tell if that’s actually what it is. Manufacturer testing is nothing. We’ll see how good the optics are when hundreds or thousands of them start to make their way onto guns in the real world. Which as everyone has said is the problem. How many will want to pay that kind of money for an unproven optic when other proven optics that have literally been used by SF and various military units around the world and proven to be truly battle ready optics exist for that price point. I’m not saying they won’t turn out to be good. I have zero idea. And maybe in 6 months or a year people put them in that S tier with the other top optics. But until then, I believe they have an uphill battle at that price point. |
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Quoted: Yeah, it does include plates. Poor phrasing on my part. I should have said, "It doesn't need aftermarket plates like CHP or FCD." Quoted: Quoted: Unless something changes in the future even the PA guy in their industry forum thread said the optic won't get into the $500 dollar range because it's not just American assembled, it's American made! It does require plates, unless I'm missing something? https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/310007/1000007451_jpg-3428215_jpeg-3428763.JPG Two screws for plate to slide. Four screws to the optic, two front, and one into each side. Ameriglo suppressor sights are usually around $50-$60 if someone wants to add which isnt even that big of a deal. If I had to guess off the top off my head, I probably have around 5000rds on my oldest p2 without a single issue, which is nothing compared to alot of them. I think they are far from junk. I don't know dude, we will just have to see how they hold up but I just don't see the value. Yeah, it does include plates. Poor phrasing on my part. I should have said, "It doesn't need aftermarket plates like CHP or FCD." I actually kind of think you were right the first time, in that these aren’t really plates like other optics use. They’re more like a modular part of the sight itself - the bottom “floor” of the optic housing, if you will. The optic can’t be used without the bottom installed, and modular design allows you to secure the bottom of the optic to the slide before you finish assembling the optic. A pretty neat concept to allow the optic to sit as low as it does. |
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These will compete directly with Trijicon and Aimpoint, those buying Chinese will continue to do so, despite claims that the reason is actually the features, because there is no actual way to get the prices on American made goods down to slave labor produced Chinese goods. I think the biggest issue they will have is branding, but PA has also sown a lot of goodwill with customers who I think will be willing to try these out because they know they'll be taken care of if there are issues. I will buy one of these for a top dot on a .308 AR with MPVO. I'll need to see how they play with different sight heights before I commit to one on my DW Specialist. |
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Quoted: When I get to a point where I am considering enclosed emitter dots this one will be on my short list. I’d like to say that I’m shocked and dismayed with the number of comments that are critical of the introductory price for an American made optic with the options, features, and advancements that this optic appears to provide. But mostly just dismayed. Most Americans don't have a ton of disposable income for things like this. |
| Interesting but that that price point I don’t see it replacing my Aimpoints or Holosuns. Made in America is great but if that means a significant bump in cost, it really isn’t worth it. Especially when you consider that Aimpoint and even Holosun are proven optics. |
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Quoted: Most Americans don't have a ton of disposable income for things like this. I think a lot of times it’s a matter of priorities and discipline. Many people who think an optic like this is too expensive will head to the store on Black Friday to buy their fourth or fifth (or fifteenth) pistol for $500-$600, rather than skipping one and saving up to buy the Glock / COA combo the next year because they’re got to have the new pistol that was just released or want to try another brand that everyone is talking about on YT. |
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Quoted: I think a lot of times it’s a matter of priorities and discipline. Many people who think an optic like this is too expensive will head to the store on Black Friday to buy their fourth or fifth (or fifteenth) pistol for $500-$600, rather than skipping one and saving up to buy the Glock / COA combo the next year because they’re got to have the new pistol that was just released or want to try another brand that everyone is talking about on YT. I’m guilty of this. |
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Quoted: Most Americans don't have a ton of disposable income for things like this. Fair enough; there are plenty of other options on the market that will cater to just about any price point in this day and age. My post was more directed at the premise that an American-made (not just assembled) option with the features that this optic appears to provide should cost the same or less than an imported one. That simply isn’t reality. If one values where the manufacturing of their product is done, this is an option among select few others. If your priority is cost first, the good news is you still have options - you’re just not going to get both at this point in time. |
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Quoted: Interesting but that that price point I don’t see it replacing my Aimpoints or Holosuns. Made in America is great but if that means a significant bump in cost, it really isn’t worth it. Especially when you consider that Aimpoint and even Holosun are proven optics. And this just supports what I said in the post above. This new product won’t necessarily replace any of the Trijicon, Aimpoint, Holosun, or Vortex products that I already have, but I will take it into consideration on any future needs that I might have if/when I decide a closed emitter optic is what I’m after. You have the same options as a consumer to decide what is appropriate for your situation and circumstances. |
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If it ends up being a solid & proven winning optic, the fanboys will jump all over these. Then the arfcom standard protocols will take place: = The pricing cost complaints will subside ..... and the fanboys will be trashing-on everyone that complains about the price, and slap the "poors" label on the complainers ("go someplace else and be poor").  |
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