@Bandit117

Odd how the OP disappeared.

lol  OK.   I don't recall it being sold as a "CZ factory blem".   It was sold as a Rifle Gear  blem, under their "own" definition of blem.  

That would be all good and dandy if you had bought straight from  CZ,  which you didn't.  The shop you bought from has a crystal clear definition of a "blem".  You bought from that shop and should have to follow the rules and definitions of the shop you bought from.  What CZ does or doesn't do, has nothing to do with the issue from understanding.  


Where's that update you promised us?  

That isn't correct. CZ does determine which units get shipped marked as blemished.  And riflegear does have,  at least as of today, fairly accurate text about the blemished models they sell that communicates this pretty clearly.

I think OP is going to get an education.

I think OP is to embarrassed to tell us what happened. Might have to rate this troll.....

The bill of sale does not list 3 mags, just the gun.

To me, the OP has the gun and the money, I morally consider this theft.

Two weeks?

I think you are probably right but still hope this isn’t how it went down.

The seller posted in here, when it’s all said and done maybe they can fill us in since the OP went silent.

lol you think they'd come back after all the shit that was talked about them? It would be mighty risky for them.

Not saying you’re wrong....

@Bandit117

So...ready to tell us the rest of the story yet?

He hasn't posted since 11/20. He's not going to come back and give us an update.

I am not going to make a decision quite yet but I do think that when a thread like this is started that the final result should be shared. If not it looks bad.

Sounds like OP's dog got shot....

We would like closure on this as well. I did personally have a conversation with the OP a few weeks ago and apologized for the situation and how things transpired with people in customer service. Someone from accounting then attempted contact a couple times to offer a mutually agreeable resolution and we have been awaiting a return call.

I called on Friday, no one got back to me. There was only one call made.

You realize you can't buy anything from direct from CZ as a non FFL right? This pistol has the lambda prefix, indicating its a CZ factory blem. Also says so on the case with a label that the factory put on it. Anymore clarifications that you need? Or are you really that special?

Anything from your credit card company?

Thanks. I'll have her call you back again today.

Yes. I have been in contact with American Express. American express informed me that RG didnt bother to participate in the investigation. RG made no reply and sent nothing in rebuttal to the inquiries that Amex made, and Amex did make them. although RG has claimed in our phone conversations that they were never notified of anything but clearly they got word of the chargeback. Amex has it laid out very in their merchant guides, rules and regulations, and the amex guy pointed them out to me, that failing to respond to a dispute inquiry in the 60 day window will result in the dispute being found in favor of the customer, sort of like default judgement. It's like amex dispute 101.

American Express has recommended, in fact they practically insisted, that because the matter is closed on their end, I should not pay RG anything at all after the fact, since they knew that not responding by Oct 22 (60 days) would result in a default judgement, both in the merchant agreement and in the specific communications Amex sent. They said that although I am free to do as I please, for RG to try collect after Amex decided the dispute in my favor after RG didn't respond to AMEX would jeopardize the integrity of the dispute process. It seems like Amex want's to put some teeth in its dispute process, to give merchant's incentive to participate in this process. Amex was also pretty unhappy to hear that a merchant was even trying to collect after they lost the dispute by not participating in it.  

I did speak to shark with RG and he did apologize and said the employee who called and threatened me was reprimanded, although he didn't say who they were or what the consequences for their actions were, and he said they have changed their process to make sure this doesn't happen again. There was some evasion when I asked why they didn't respond to amex, he said they must not have got the notice or it somehow fell though the cracks. I am not sure I entirely believe this, I think they were afraid of getting called on the carpet to justify their conduct to amex if they responded, so its very possible that, like having a cop knocking on the door, they elected to just turn off the lights, pretend no one is home and wait for them to leave . I also asked why he outed his company here, when I never once mentioned them by name and he said he was just mad and didn't read the whole thing. I said that I would at least be open to hearing an offer, even though I have absolutely no obligation to do so. They had someone call me not long before thanksgiving, I called back a few days ago and have heard nothing since. This whole thing is just grating.

Well, thanks for coming back and posting the update.

I guess you can't really force the merchant to return your calls.

So you get a free pistol out of this mess?

So are you rolling around with a free gun, or what?

Odd how that was omitted, huh?  If he wasn't rolling around with a freebie, I doubt he would be working out an offer with RG (since AMEX found in 'his favor').  

Come on OP, do the right thing here.  Take the moral high ground before it takes you.  Pick up the phone and get this done today and then get on with life.

Exactly.

Guy has a gun that he didn’t pay for which was originally offered fir sale at a very reasonable price.

Seller is out the product and the money.

What happened may be legal, but it certainly isn’t right.

You guys are acting like the seller shares none of the blame.  

This should cost them something just for the ATF threat.  I'd have a hard time letting that go.

While they’re both wrong, the OP wins by a significant margin in my eyes.

Have to disagree with you and reccomend you get those eyes checked out.

The side that wants to get the ATF involved is always wrong.

Oh look, Riflegear's other account!

Meanwhile, they’re out product unwillingly with zero money.

There’s a word for that.

They should have either:

a. shared the recording of OP inquiring by phone about the gun, and being told it only came with one mag, with AMEX.
or
b.  sent the OP the two missing mags.

There's three words for that, smart business practices.

Is that called they didn't follow the agreement w/ the credit card companies and lost because they didn't show up?

How did I miss this thread until today, read all 5 pages.
Sounds a lot like the guy in CA that ordered mags then tried to cancel with the law flip flop and the vendor threatened to call LEO (or was it ATF).

Believe it or not, I bought a Beretta CX4 from Botach with "extra mags you'll get later" and I got everything. Took a while for the mags but they came, no calls, disputes or ATF.

c. Should have responded to AMEX's communications.
and
d. Not tried to shadily collect money after they had lost the dispute.

All of the Karens whining about the OP getting something for "free" (I can't speak for the OP, but I can assure you that my time and aggravation dealing with unscrupulous businesses is certainly not "free") need to stop being so upset that somebody other than them got what they perceive to be a good deal.

If you think that’s why most of us seem upset about the situation it says a lot more about you than you know.

Also, let's remember that RG also apparently told OP that a straight-up return was impossible.

Which is pretty common for blemished items and firearms in general.

Because returns on firearms are so common.

They could has said

Dealer cost on 2 mags is $$ and shipping is $, how about we split it.
If I was OP I would have agreed to that but like OP, 10% off list is BS.

There just isn't much markup in this stuff. It still comes down to a he said she said.

How it should have gone down in a perfect reasonable world.
Buyer inspects gun at FFL realized it is short mags
Holds off on transfer until contact is made with seller
Seller tries to remedy situation
Unable to remedy seller sends call tag for firearm
Buyer is refunded upon return of firearm


ETA

This is another reason I always try communicate through some format that leaves me evidence like email, messenger, text etc

Returns on firearms happen regularly, for a number of common reasons.  lol  

OTOH, perhaps it was wiser to threaten to call in the ATF.  

That worked out well.

So the dealer would be out shipping both ways? How is that much different than selling two mags for half price?

Regularly by the dealer that sold them? I disagree especially after the transfer has taken place. I sold guns for almost 10 years and never encountered anywhere where guns were regularly returned to the seller.

Here's a quick search
Cabela's does not accept returns of any firearms. Please contact the manufacturer directly for assistance.

Buds
1.  Firearms - It is solely the customers responsibility to thoroughly inspect the firearm(s) at the FFL prior to accepting the transfer.  If there is a noticeable defect of any kind to the firearm, or associated case/contents, please simply refuse the transfer and we will arrange to have the firearm returned to us, at our expense, and issue the customer a full refund or replacement firearm if available.  If the customer accepts the transfer from the FFL, we can then only refer the customer to the manufacturer for warranty consideration.

Grabagun
Once you accept the transfer, the gun is considered used and must be returned directly to the manufacturer for warranty repair or replacement.

and for the grand finale here's Riflegears policy very clearly listed on their website

Returns - No returns will be accepted for firearms after transfer from the dealer to the buyer - this applies both to firearms purchased at a RifleGear retail store or transferred to another FFL dealer. Firearms cannot be returned unless found to be defective or damaged upon inspection at the dealer.  Please inspect your firearm thoroughly and refuse to proceed with the paperwork or transfer if you are not satisfied with the condition of the firearm.   After the firearm is transferred into your possession, any warranty issue will have to be addressed through the firearm manufacturer.


Bad deals happen and it's their property so it costs them to get it back as you can't force those charges on the customer or receiving dealer. Either way the important step is communication with the seller BEFORE the gun is transferred to the buyer. It is pretty well known common practice that by completing the transfer you are agreeing to the product. There are always going to be exceptions.

They didn't even bother to respond to the dispute, unwillingly? No, I'd say more like apathetic.

Well, published policy is tough to dispute.

That said, apparently AmEx didn't see it that way.

Much like there are at least two sides to every story both the buyer and seller had agreements with Amex and that's a whole other rodeo.

I can't disagree.

The claim by the OP that we didn't even respond to the chargeback is simply not true. I have seen the folder on the chargeback. We have the initial notice of the chargeback, our response and all supplied paperwork, and their reply to our dispute. I am not sure whey  AMEX would even discuss this level of detail to either side. Like someone else said, we are both customers of AMEX. Personally I do not want to continue to fight this in public, but I also do not want to let blatantly false statements about our company go unanswered.