User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
|
Posted: 10/13/2021 6:51:59 PM EDT
History of the M1911A1 with SF as I remember it.
I am sure @combat_diver can provide more details he was there too in the beginning.  Post 911 History of M1911A1 in use with U.S. Special Forces |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/13/2021 11:24:03 PM EDT
[#1]
I started my SF career in 5th SFGA with the M1911A1 on teams in 84’. After we turned them in for M9s a few were retained for 18Bs to train on (along with other older US weapons back to M1903A4s). My team took two of those to Haiti in 95’, which I carried one daily.
Back in October 03’, I had just returned back to 5th from 1/10th in Germany. The Group was already deployed in Iraq. I was asked by Steve Holland (my sniper instructor from 94’) to hand carry another 250 ea M1911A1s forward. He had just pulled these guns out of depot. The vacuum packed bags had dates on them from 91’, when Arsenal rebuilt and packed away. Most of these where Remington Rands but with some Colts. Another friend I know was a civilian gunsmith with them at the time remembers some in new never issued original Kraft boxes. So, I took those guns to Iraq and the got distributed out. I used a Safariland 6400 as you mentioned and Wilson 47D 8 and 10 rd mags. I also took my Gordon Davis Liberty and shoulder rig, both leather holsters. Carried the 1911 in Iraq in 03,04,05 and 08’. Crimson Trace laser grips were a common issue item by Group for them. Will continue, Thanks for the video brother. CD |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/13/2021 11:27:25 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I started my SF career in 5th SFGA with the M1911A1 on teams in 84’. After we turned them in for M9s a few were retained for 18Bs to train on (along with other older US weapons back to M1903A4s). My team took two of those to Haiti in 95’, which I carried one daily. Back in October 03’, I had just returned back to 5th from 1/10th in Germany. The Group was already deployed in Iraq. I was asked by Steve Holland (my sniper instructor from 94’) to hand carry another 250 ea M1911A1s forward. He had just pulled these guns out of depot. The vacuum packed bags had dates on them from 91’, when Arsenal rebuilt and packed away. Most of these where Remington Rands but with some Colts. Another friend I know was a civilian gunsmith with them at the time remembers some in new never issued original Kraft boxes. So, I took those guns to Iraq and the got distributed out. I used a Safariland 6400 as you mentioned and Wilson 47D 8 and 10 rd mags. I also took my Gordon Davis Liberty and shoulder rig, both leather holsters. Carried the 1911 in Iraq in 03,04,05 and 08’. Crimson Trace laser grips were a common issue item by Group for them. Will continue CD Any pictures? |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/14/2021 12:24:50 AM EDT
[#3]
Dec 03'
 Attached File Attached FileReference on my web belt, just put two 8 rd mags in a double stack M9 pouch. I carried 105 rds of .45 compared to 106 rds of 9mm in the same space if running a M9.  Attached File04'  Attached File Attached FileCD |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/14/2021 12:34:34 AM EDT
[#4]
Afghanistan 14'. Was there as a SOCOM contractor. Had both G19 or M1911A1.
 Attached File Attached FileShop had 6 1911's on books, these would later get turned back into Crane in 17'  Attached FileLast 1911s that I saw in Astan were Kimbers, turned in beginning of this year. I'll have to dig for my Afghan pics for 1911s. CD |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/14/2021 1:11:06 AM EDT
[#5]
Very cool, thank you both for sharing
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/14/2021 7:38:56 AM EDT
[#6]
Badass
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/14/2021 10:31:10 AM EDT
[#7]
Man, I love CD posts. (And Stukas87 too, your videos are pretty cool.
 )Amazing to see those pistols still in service so many years after their introduction. If they could talk, the stories they could tell! |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/14/2021 10:38:18 AM EDT
[#8]
Great video, Stukas. Thank you for posting putting it out and to CD for the complimentary info. I am a big fan of the 1911 and was happy to see them (in very small numbers) kicking around Group as late as 2019. I only remember one making it to Afghanistan as the vast majority guys chose Glock (as you pointed out) and a few opted for the (then) new Sig.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/14/2021 10:48:54 AM EDT
[#9]
Thank You.
I think had SF gone with more modern ones like the Marines did, then maybe they would have lasted longer But the Marines did adopt the G19 in 2016 The G19 was a SF initiative first, now almost every SOCOM unit uses it. So in the end, SF wins the pistol wars! |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/14/2021 12:25:54 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Thank You. I think had SF gone with more modern ones like the Marines did, then maybe they would have lasted longer But the Marines did adopt the G19 in 2016 The G19 was a SF initiative first, now almost every SOCOM unit uses it. So in the end, SF wins the pistol wars! SEALs replaced their Mk25s (226) with the G19 also. Haven't seen what AFSOC carries lately. CD |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/14/2021 1:32:09 PM EDT
[#11]
Great video.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/14/2021 1:43:40 PM EDT
[#12]
Great video.
Glad to see you have a channel, I've read a lot of your articles. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/14/2021 2:43:56 PM EDT
[#13]
Thanks guys. It's great to see those old warhorses at work a century after they were first introduced. I sometimes wonder what happened to the RR I had in VN (non-SF, just RA.) I'd like to think it's somewhere still putting rounds down range for the good guys, but I'm afraid it was probably left behind.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/14/2021 3:00:24 PM EDT
[#14]
I Appreciate all the feedback!
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/14/2021 3:38:00 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I Appreciate all the feedback! I’ve got some other Astan 1911 pics like yours that I need to find CD |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/14/2021 4:58:16 PM EDT
[#16]
Great video. I started using the 1911A1 platform in 1980. We were using updated fixed sights around early 1983. Before that we used adjustable sights since most of ours 1911a1s started life as National Match pistols with adjustable sights. All our weapons had hard slides.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/14/2021 7:33:41 PM EDT
[#17]
Thanks for sharing
 S/F
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/14/2021 7:34:48 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Last 1911s that I saw in Astan were Kimbers, turned in beginning of this year. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/14/2021 7:51:53 PM EDT
[#19]
Mine was a Remington Rand - SN 2287389
Well worn and a good pistol, work in a tanker’s shoulder holster under kit. I hope it’s gone to a good home. 18Z50 |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/14/2021 8:05:05 PM EDT
[#20]
Very cool thread, thanks for the info and pics and look forward to more!!
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/14/2021 8:44:03 PM EDT
[#21]
Very good information! Thank you for sharing!
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/15/2021 4:15:37 AM EDT
[#22]
Other 1911's in Astan
Gov't M1911A1s with sights changed  Attached File Attached FileKimber  Attached FileCD |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/15/2021 4:21:26 PM EDT
[#23]
 Attached FileI wasn't serving in SF during this time, however I was active in the the Stan/Iraq, Syria, Yemen and Africa. My two favorite weapons Remington Rand, and G23. We used Surefire 1911a1 mounts and various Surefire weapons lights. I never warmed up to the G22, I had a G35 with a Doctor Optic. I used the 1911 mostly as a back up when I used a long arm. Did a lot of work without an M4 or 416. Then I carried a Glock for more fire power. Regards |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/15/2021 4:45:36 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/37487/IMG_2662_jpg-2131213.JPG I wasn't serving in SF during this time, however I was active in the the Stan/Iraq, Syria, Yemen and Africa. My two favorite weapons Remington Rand, and G23. We used Surefire 1911a1 mounts and various Surefire weapons lights. I never warmed up to the G22, I had a G35 with a Doctor Optic. I used the 1911 mostly as a back up when I used a long arm. Did a lot of work without an M4 or 416. Then I carried the Glocks for more fire power. Regards Delta? |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/15/2021 7:53:22 PM EDT
[#25]
The video was pretty cool to watch and hear about old being new again.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/16/2021 1:50:22 PM EDT
[#26]
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/16/2021 2:12:57 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote History |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/16/2021 8:14:20 PM EDT
[#28]
Very nice video. Thanks for putting the time in to do what you are doing, and thank you for what you did.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/16/2021 10:36:22 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Very nice video. Thanks for putting the time in to do what you are doing, and thank you for what you did. Glad you liked it |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/17/2021 12:43:06 AM EDT
[#30]
I've said for very long time. Only 3 things wrong with the M1911A1 for the Army.
1. Sights too small 2. Army hadn't bought any new ones since 1945 3. Army doesn't teach how to shoot a handgun effectively (excluding SF) CD |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/17/2021 10:59:28 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I've said for very long time. Only 3 things wrong with the M1911A1 for the Army. 1. Sights too small 2. Army hadn't bought any new ones since 1945 3. Army doesn't teach how to shoot a handgun effectively (excluding SF) CD Army does a miserable job with handgun...practically dismal Rifle training game pretty weak too Just last month ran into a soldier at a 2gun match.. I knew he was a soldier due to his horrible stance Shooting the rifle: His feet were parallel and he was bent way forward at the waste "to fight recoil" Of course. bending forward, shoulders out past hips puts all the strain on our lower back Feet parallel dismal... one would stand feet like that in a fist fight, you'd get pushed over so in fact not a stable stance at all I ask where he learned to shoot like that...He said in the SF Q-course! |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/17/2021 12:32:39 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Army does a miserable job with handgun...practically dismal Rifle training game pretty weak too Just last month ran into a soldier at a 2gun match.. I knew he was a soldier due to his horrible stance Shooting the rifle: His feet were parallel and he was bent way forward at the waste "to fight recoil" Of course. bending forward, shoulders out past hips puts all the strain on our lower back Feet parallel dismal... one would stand feet like that in a fist fight, you'd get pushed over so in fact not a stable stance at all I ask where he learned to shoot like that...He said in the SF Q-course! Should have rephrased that as SFARTAETC CD |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/18/2021 10:55:24 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Army does a miserable job with handgun...practically dismal Rifle training game pretty weak too Just last month ran into a soldier at a 2gun match.. I knew he was a soldier due to his horrible stance Shooting the rifle: His feet were parallel and he was bent way forward at the waste "to fight recoil" Of course. bending forward, shoulders out past hips puts all the strain on our lower back Feet parallel dismal... one would stand feet like that in a fist fight, you'd get pushed over so in fact not a stable stance at all I ask where he learned to shoot like that...He said in the SF Q-course! Miserable is a compliment. Before deployment I spent a lot of time teaching my platoon. ( being medics about 75% of my guys had the M9 as the sole armament they carried )Pistol shooting. Unfortunately very little time or resources allocated to this. The best investment the military could have made in pistol use was not replacing the M9 but send each pistol assigned trooper to something like gunsite or thunder ranch. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/19/2021 8:00:04 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Miserable is a compliment. Before deployment I spent a lot of time teaching my platoon. ( being medics about 75% of my guys had the M9 as the sole armament they carried )Pistol shooting. Unfortunately very little time or resources allocated to this. The best investment the military could have made in pistol use was not replacing the M9 but send each pistol assigned trooper to something like gunsite or thunder ranch. You are not wrong |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/19/2021 9:25:07 PM EDT
[#35]
What a great thread.
I'm still a 1911 guy. Just shoot them better than everything I have ever owned. Always good to read, view and learn from you guys who served. My skills are always improving from just listening and learning here. IMHO I feel I'll never run out of things to learn in this community. Appreciate it so very much is the best I can say, and I feel it's not enough. God bless and thanks for your service. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/19/2021 11:16:08 PM EDT
[#36]
Awesome thread
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/20/2021 1:10:34 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Dec 03' Reference on my web belt, just put two 8 rd mags in a double stack M9 pouch. I carried 105 rds of .45 compared to 106 rds of 9mm in the same space if running a M9. CD That sounds heavy |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/20/2021 1:12:28 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Man, I love CD posts. (And Stukas87 too, your videos are pretty cool. )I wish I could get a notification when he posts. I would stalk him for this gold 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/20/2021 1:25:44 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I started my SF career in 5th SFGA with the M1911A1 on teams in 84’. After we turned them in for M9s a few were retained for 18Bs to train on (along with other older US weapons back to M1903A4s). My team took two of those to Haiti in 95’, which I carried one daily. Back in October 03’, I had just returned back to 5th from 1/10th in Germany. The Group was already deployed in Iraq. I was asked by Steve Holland (my sniper instructor from 94’) to hand carry another 250 ea M1911A1s forward. He had just pulled these guns out of depot. The vacuum packed bags had dates on them from 91’, when Arsenal rebuilt and packed away. Most of these where Remington Rands but with some Colts. Another friend I know was a civilian gunsmith with them at the time remembers some in new never issued original Kraft boxes. So, I took those guns to Iraq and the got distributed out. I used a Safariland 6400 as you mentioned and Wilson 47D 8 and 10 rd mags. I also took my Gordon Davis Liberty and shoulder rig, both leather holsters. Carried the 1911 in Iraq in 03,04,05 and 08’. Crimson Trace laser grips were a common issue item by Group for them. Will continue, Thanks for the video brother. CD I remember being at Crimson Trace and our law enforcement and military manager asked us to make sure they were squared away. Same for the m9 laser grips. one of you guys made a special request for dual laser style grips........ like we made for the SEALS... which was an IR laser on the left side and regular laser on the right side. that was our most requested item. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/20/2021 2:33:16 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I remember being at Crimson Trace and our law enforcement and military manager asked us to make sure they were squared away. You never sent me my free batteries 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/20/2021 2:41:26 AM EDT
[#41]
Great post gentlemen.... thank you for your service.
???? |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/20/2021 2:46:57 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I remember being at Crimson Trace and our law enforcement and military manager asked us to make sure they were squared away. Same for the m9 laser grips. one of you guys made a special request for dual laser style grips........ like we made for the SEALS... which was an IR laser on the left side and regular laser on the right side. that was our most requested item. Interesting, never saw the dual lasers. I got issued both CTC grips for the 1911 and M9. Like them enough that I have a set on my 1911, G19 and Smith 442 at home. CD |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/20/2021 7:20:44 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I remember being at Crimson Trace and our law enforcement and military manager asked us to make sure they were squared away. Same for the m9 laser grips. one of you guys made a special request for dual laser style grips........ like we made for the SEALS... which was an IR laser on the left side and regular laser on the right side. that was our most requested item. @Jozsi Can you buy the dual laser grips? I need them. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/20/2021 11:23:01 AM EDT
[#44]
It's only for LEO/MIL, you have to call in and submit an agency request but individual LEO and MIL can order it also.
https://soldiersystems.net/2010/10/21/crimson-trace-dual-laser-system-for-sig/ We made some for the m9 but it's no longer shown and also for the 1911 and glock. The Sig and Glock are the only ones left. We also strangely made one for the Hi power also, I think it was for another unit that wanted it.  Attached File |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/21/2021 11:24:57 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I've said for very long time. Only 3 things wrong with the M1911A1 for the Army. 1. Sights too small 2. Army hadn't bought any new ones since 1945 3. Army doesn't teach how to shoot a handgun effectively (excluding SF) CD Paul Poole had no issue teaching us to be tack drivers at 25 & 50 yards with them at OG SOT. I had no issues with them in the 5th Army combat pistol matches. However, they are small - especially by modern standards. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/21/2021 11:34:03 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Army does a miserable job with handgun...practically dismal Rifle training game pretty weak too Just last month ran into a soldier at a 2gun match.. I knew he was a soldier due to his horrible stance Shooting the rifle: His feet were parallel and he was bent way forward at the waste "to fight recoil" Of course. bending forward, shoulders out past hips puts all the strain on our lower back Feet parallel dismal... one would stand feet like that in a fist fight, you'd get pushed over so in fact not a stable stance at all I ask where he learned to shoot like that...He said in the SF Q-course! Pre- body armor and in competition this seems strange. But traditional rifle shooting positions (especially standing) exposes a body armor equipped shooter to fatal hits. New technique is also to 'drive' the target which probably accounts for his non-competition stance. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/21/2021 11:03:18 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: By standing square to the target his body armor plates are square to incoming fire. Pre- body armor and in competition this seems strange. But traditional rifle shooting positions (especially standing) exposes a body armor equipped shooter to fatal hits. New technique is also to 'drive' the target which probably accounts for his non-competition stance. Plates to front is complete myth It assumes a single enemy squaring off with you with no movement. Unless it's a duel at 20 paces with pistols. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/21/2021 11:22:46 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Plates to front is complete myth It assumes a single enemy squaring off with you with no movement. Unless it's a duel at 20 paces with pistols. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: By standing square to the target his body armor plates are square to incoming fire. Pre- body armor and in competition this seems strange. But traditional rifle shooting positions (especially standing) exposes a body armor equipped shooter to fatal hits. New technique is also to 'drive' the target which probably accounts for his non-competition stance. Plates to front is complete myth It assumes a single enemy squaring off with you with no movement. Unless it's a duel at 20 paces with pistols. I'm going to go with ODA_564 on this. It very possible that the SFARTAETC/SFAUC/SOT/ Mott Lake grads in this thread may have a wee bit more knowledge, both in theory and and in practical application than the average Arfcom RKI. 18Z50...Nous Defions |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/22/2021 1:12:02 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm going to go with ODA_564 on this. It very possible that the SFARTAETC/SFAUC/SOT/ Mott Lake grads in this thread may have a wee bit more knowledge, both in theory and and in practical application than the average Arfcom RKI. 18Z50...Nous Defions Il trust my 9 tours of experience and the fact that I also worked as a SFARTAETC Instructor Plates to front sounds good in theory..meaningless in real life. There is a reason SFARTAETC made drastic changes to CQB in late 2006 after B2/3 saw lots of CQB..the MottLake stuff didnt work ..since most of it was based on theory by guys who never actually fuaght CQB. Unfortunately all those lesson learned have been lost as guy retire. And many units going back to "by the book" 1993 HR drivel If your CQB tactics rely on 4 man stacks and plates too the front, you are gonna take casualties. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/22/2021 1:50:43 AM EDT
[#50]
Sometimes we are just going to agree to disagree amongst yourselves.
CD |
|
|
Win a FREE Membership!
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.
Attached File