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Posted: 5/27/2023 8:59:00 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: He's saying when guys like Jerry Miculek and Rob Leatham say they've fired over 1 million rounds it's really 500,000 because they're liars. No, you're saying that. I never did. You are not them and they're not narcissists, that's a fact. I have never seen them talk down like you do, crap on things others like unlike you that you don't (G45 and G19X threads to ring a bell), etc. In fact, I know a ton of professional shooters who don't mock someone just because someone likes something that you do not. They also don't treat random people over the internet and in person, as below them and untrained or has never shot or carried a gun either. So yes, I subtract and add when the BS flags go up. YMMV. |
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Posted: 5/27/2023 9:02:23 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Deflection, nice. Fallacy again, nice deflect projection game you have there. Proof that your ego is the one doing the talking. There has not been one Glock that I have had that hasn't had at least one malfunction in over tens of thousands of rounds, shoot enough and the unbeatable will come knocking: physics. Or bad luck, a bad round of ammunition. Something. |
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Posted: 5/27/2023 9:25:21 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: He's saying when guys like Jerry Miculek and Rob Leatham say they've fired over 1 million rounds it's really 500,000 because they're liars. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: That is really not hard to believe. I cracked off 500ish today of 9mm, 5.56, and .308 not counting several mags of 22lr. I shook around sometimes more or less than Bradd each year. If the shooter in question is displaying Miculek skills, that's different. In person, at the range, there are a lot of tells if someone actually shoots commonly or not. I shoot about twice a month on average. If I interact with someone for a few minutes, I usually have a pretty good handle on how much they shoot. You don't get that level of info on the internet. It's 90% blowhards bullshitting. So it's pretty safe to assume people are full of shit. 99.9% of people you run across are no Jerry Miculek. My local area has about a million people. There's less than 500 skilled shooters of all types, who go the the range regularly. Probably less than 200. It's always the same 50 faces or so that I'm consistently seeing at all the ranges and competitions. |
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Posted: 5/27/2023 9:30:58 AM EDT
[#4]
One of my most carried pistols has had a handful of various malfunctions over the years in close to 10,000 rounds it's fired. Gen 3 Glock 19. I'm a range master and I qualify 5 departments a year. I see all brands of handguns fired for practice and qualification. It's rare but I see malfunctions in duty pistols every year. I have one observation in the tens of thousands of rounds of all calibers I've fired or seen fired. I can not recall one malfunction with the 357 SIG caliber. It's been out issued caliber since it was released. We were issued a Sig 226 and 2 different Glock 31s over the years. I maintain all of our handguns. Rotate duty ammo every 6 months, new magazine springs every 2 years, new recoil springs at 1,500 rounds. I believe it's the bottleneck shape of the SIG round that helps it feed.
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Posted: 5/27/2023 10:27:14 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: One of my most carried pistols has had a handful of various malfunctions over the years in close to 10,000 rounds it's fired. Gen 3 Glock 19. I'm a range master and I qualify 5 departments a year. I see all brands of handguns fired for practice and qualification. It's rare but I see malfunctions in duty pistols every year. I have one observation in the tens of thousands of rounds of all calibers I've fired or seen fired. I can not recall one malfunction with the 357 SIG caliber. It's been out issued caliber since it was released. We were issued a Sig 226 and 2 different Glock 31s over the years. I maintain all of our handguns. Rotate duty ammo every 6 months, new magazine springs every 2 years, new recoil springs at 1,500 rounds. I believe it's the bottleneck shape of the SIG round that helps it feed. Would you be able to recall what ammo had less user problems and what ammo was the worst by any chance? |
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Posted: 5/27/2023 3:23:06 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Things that didn't happen and round count subtractions for $500, Alex. A serious shooter going 10K+ across all guns in a year is completely believable. I’m a mediocre, non-competitive shooter and I’m well past 3K rounds for this year. I shoot so weather between 5K and 7.5K rouges total a year. A fair amount of those rounds are Rimfire. Like I said, Im just an average guy shooter. I don’t carry a firearm professionally. I don’t shoot competitively. Im not an instructor. I completely believe guys who compete or shoot in a professional capacity shoot a lot more than me. |
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Posted: 5/27/2023 3:36:13 PM EDT
[#7]
I think people who don’t understand firearms look at malfunctions as black magic. I think the “trust” in a gun friends on the factors behind any malfunctions.
Bad primers/garbage ammo isn’t the fault of any gun. I’ve shot so e cheap ass pistol ammo where I’d see a bad primer that wouldn’t fire ir grossly underpowered ammo that wouldn’t cycle. This was particularly something I noticed when shooting “remanufactured” ammo. If a gun has issues with cheap ass ammo, then if switched to quality ammo reliability returns , that’s not the guns fault. Crappy mags snd worn out springs are the other major cause of issues I’ve. seen. I track my round counts snd replace recoil/internal springs at proper intervals. My mags are labeled, snd bags that have problems get stomped and trashed. |
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Posted: 5/27/2023 3:39:59 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No, you're saying that. I never did. You are not them and they're not narcissists, that's a fact. I have never seen them talk down like you do, crap on things others like unlike you that you don't (G45 and G19X threads to ring a bell), etc. In fact, I know a ton of professional shooters who don't mock someone just because someone likes something that you do not. They also don't treat random people over the internet and in person, as below them and untrained or has never shot or carried a gun either. So yes, I subtract and add when the BS flags go up. YMMV.  Attached File |
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Posted: 5/27/2023 3:45:27 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A serious shooter going 10K+ across all guns in a year is completely believable. I’m a mediocre, non-competitive shooter and I’m well past 3K rounds for this year. I shoot so weather between 5K and 7.5K rouges total a year. A fair amount of those rounds are Rimfire. Like I said, Im just an average guy shooter. I don’t carry a firearm professionally. I don’t shoot competitively. Im not an instructor. I completely believe guys who compete or shoot in a professional capacity shoot a lot more than me. lol, well it's a free country, believe what you want. It still doesn't change what I had said though. I've seen even the serious have bad days, it happens. To have an ego and talks down to people liking what he doesn't, and then saying what he likes is impervious, is a fishing tale that raises the BS flag. YMMV |
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Posted: 5/27/2023 3:46:13 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryThat's not tech and it doesn't take away from what I had said, so there's that. |
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Posted: 5/27/2023 4:18:12 PM EDT
[#11]
Somebody needs to break out the ARF play therapy doll. FFS.
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Posted: 5/27/2023 5:20:12 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: lol, well it's a free country, believe what you want. It still doesn't change what I had said though. I've seen even the serious have bad days, it happens. To have an ego and talks down to people liking what he doesn't, and then saying what he likes is impervious, is a fishing tale that raises the BS flag. YMMV Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: A serious shooter going 10K+ across all guns in a year is completely believable. I’m a mediocre, non-competitive shooter and I’m well past 3K rounds for this year. I shoot so weather between 5K and 7.5K rouges total a year. A fair amount of those rounds are Rimfire. Like I said, Im just an average guy shooter. I don’t carry a firearm professionally. I don’t shoot competitively. Im not an instructor. I completely believe guys who compete or shoot in a professional capacity shoot a lot more than me. lol, well it's a free country, believe what you want. It still doesn't change what I had said though. I've seen even the serious have bad days, it happens. To have an ego and talks down to people liking what he doesn't, and then saying what he likes is impervious, is a fishing tale that raises the BS flag. YMMV What are you not believing? That someone can shoot 10K or more rounds a year? Of that handguns can go 10K rounds without a malfunction? I can believe both. In the latter case I would assume the pistol was properly maintained, which would include things like cleaning. lubrication and replacing recoil springs, and always shot using quality ammo. Sooner or later Murphy catches up to you, and something is going to go wrong. But I can see a 10K run without an issue as being plausible. It's not really the user's skill that determines malfunctions, it's really the mechanical operation of the handgun and the ammo. You can obtain a LOT of reliability with a decent quality pistol that is properly maintained, with replace wear items appropriately and shooting quality ammo. I have a couple of training pistols that I've had for years, are almost always at the range with me and I've never had a malfunction that I can remember with any of them. If I ever have a malfunction that I can't trace to a shitty mag or bad ammo, I'll be surprised. I don't shoot as much as @Bradd_D, and my record keeping could be better, but I'm certain some of the longer use pistols have many thousands of rounds without a malfunction. |
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Posted: 5/27/2023 5:26:14 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What are you not believing? That someone can shoot 10K or more rounds a year? Of that handguns can go 10K rounds without a malfunction? I can believe both. In the latter case I would assume the pistol was properly maintained, which would include things like cleaning. lubrication and replacing recoil springs, and always shot using quality ammo. Sooner or later Murphy catches up to you, and something is going to go wrong. But I can see a 10K run without an issue as being plausible. It's not really the user's skill that determines malfunctions, it's really the mechanical operation of the handgun and the ammo. You can obtain a LOT of reliability with a decent quality pistol that is properly maintained, with replace wear items appropriately and shooting quality ammo. I have a couple of training pistols that I've had for years, are almost always at the range with me and I've never had a malfunction that I can remember with any of them. If I ever have a malfunction that I can't trace to a shitty mag or bad ammo, I'll be surprised. I don't shoot as much as @Bradd_D, and my record keeping could be better, but I'm certain some of the longer use pistols have many thousands of rounds without a malfunction. CSB, I'll guess we'll have to continue agreeing to disagree here then. I also heard about the guys at cola that have sworn the same things, having malfunctions to the contrary. Believe what you want, I'll do the same and not. Such is life. |
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Posted: 5/27/2023 5:30:01 PM EDT
[#14]
If my EDC has a malfunction, it will only happen once. It will be relegated to the gun safe forever.
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Posted: 5/27/2023 6:02:25 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If my EDC has a malfunction, it will only happen once. It will be relegated to the gun safe forever. If it was a bad primer in the round you'd safe it forever? Or what if it was a bad magazine? |
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Posted: 5/27/2023 6:06:29 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: CSB, I'll guess we'll have to continue agreeing to disagree here then. I also heard about the guys at cola that have sworn the same things, having malfunctions to the contrary. Believe what you want, I'll do the same and not. Such is life. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: What are you not believing? That someone can shoot 10K or more rounds a year? Of that handguns can go 10K rounds without a malfunction? I can believe both. In the latter case I would assume the pistol was properly maintained, which would include things like cleaning. lubrication and replacing recoil springs, and always shot using quality ammo. Sooner or later Murphy catches up to you, and something is going to go wrong. But I can see a 10K run without an issue as being plausible. It's not really the user's skill that determines malfunctions, it's really the mechanical operation of the handgun and the ammo. You can obtain a LOT of reliability with a decent quality pistol that is properly maintained, with replace wear items appropriately and shooting quality ammo. I have a couple of training pistols that I've had for years, are almost always at the range with me and I've never had a malfunction that I can remember with any of them. If I ever have a malfunction that I can't trace to a shitty mag or bad ammo, I'll be surprised. I don't shoot as much as @Bradd_D, and my record keeping could be better, but I'm certain some of the longer use pistols have many thousands of rounds without a malfunction. CSB, I'll guess we'll have to continue agreeing to disagree here then. I also heard about the guys at cola that have sworn the same things, having malfunctions to the contrary. Believe what you want, I'll do the same and not. Such is life. You're basing your opinion on what you've heard or read. Information that's secondhand, thirdhand, 87-hand, who knows. Others, like myself, are posting based actual, first hand experience. So apparently all of us are participating in some grand conspiracy to portray our firearms as far more reliable than they actually are? |
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Posted: 5/27/2023 6:17:46 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If it was a bad primer in the round you'd safe it forever? Or what if it was a bad magazine? Yes, I might. Because when the SHTF, I have to have confidence in it. But it doesn't mean I would not take it to the range. If it performs well, it *MIGHT* get a second chance. |
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Posted: 5/27/2023 6:21:17 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You're basing your opinion on what you've heard or read. Information that's secondhand, thirdhand, 87-hand, who knows. Others, like myself, are posting based actual, first hand experience. So apparently all of us are participating in some grand conspiracy to portray our firearms as far more reliable than they actually are? No, I am basing my opinion based on a bunch of factors, most drawing from hands on. So yes, I am one of those actual posting actual, first hand, experience that proves that the narrative you're all pushing for, doesn't exist. The only thing that is readily apparent is your ego's being tied into your arguments. I can live with agreeing to disagree, you cannot though and want to drag this out more than it should be. It speaks volumes. I've been around this place long enough to know the hypocrisy among some of you. If it's a popular gun, then it's the ammo and not the gun but if it's a gun people like to disparage then it's the gun and not the ammo despite probably being the same ammo type and brand. Brand so an so never jams, everything else does. lol, right. I've also been around enough to know that professionals do not ever talk down, because that is not how you mentor and their reputation as a distinguished shooters speaks for itself. Talk to the ones long enough who now instruct and have hundreds of classes taught behind them with rather impressive resumes, and you get to hear all kinds of things. However you believe what you want, I'll continue to believe or not believe what I want to. No conspiracy about it, just ego's tied to narcissisms. I'm okay with someone disagreeing but you are not, food for thought. |
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Posted: 5/27/2023 9:35:45 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That's not tech and it doesn't take away from what I had said, so there's that. You make it incredibly hard to have a tech discussion. Sure there is a lot of stuff I do not believe some say on here. Usually the ones who are lying everyone is thinking “yup that is total BS” and you do not even have to call them on it. Someone saying they shoot around 10K a year is not hard to believe at all. Do some critical thinking and it can add up fast. Figure a serious shooter will take 300-500 pistol rounds to the range alone, 4 mags for an AR that is 120, and if you count up the 22lr that 10K could start looking very easy to hit and pass. Back to why it is hard to have a tech discussion with you… everyone is playing chess and you are playing checkers wondering why when you jump my bishop proclaiming me to king your checker I react with a gif telling you to stop it and get some help. Relax we all know who the BSer’s are they are super easy to spot you just need to hone you BS a meter more. |
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Posted: 5/27/2023 9:38:05 PM EDT
[#20]
Yes. First round I ever fired (tried to anyways) through it. Primer was dead as a door nail.
None since then…over 15k rnds. |
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Posted: 5/27/2023 9:50:33 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You make it incredibly hard to have a tech discussion. Sure there is a lot of stuff I do not believe some say on here. Usually the ones who are lying everyone is thinking “yup that is total BS” and you do not even have to call them on it. Someone saying they shoot around 10K a year is not hard to believe at all. Do some critical thinking and it can add up fast. Figure a serious shooter will take 300-500 pistol rounds to the range alone, 4 mags for an AR that is 120, and if you count up the 22lr that 10K could start looking very easy to hit and pass. Back to why it is hard to have a tech discussion with you… everyone is playing chess and you are playing checkers wondering why when you jump my bishop proclaiming me to king your checker I react with a gif telling you to stop it and get some help. Relax we all know who the BSer’s are they are super easy to spot you just need to hone you BS a meter more. When you attack the person and not their message, then it's really no reason to continue because they cannot articulate a mature response to either agree to disagree and move on, or have their own issues to contend with so your long winded post about me and not this discussion sums it up pretty well that this is getting personal to you. I am not going to back down on my position, you can either deal with this like an adult and stop derailing this thread any further, or have the decency to realize that I am not going to back down from this childish game of "ya-uh and not uh" game of back and forth. I suggest chilling out and let people have their opinions, and getting over your personal issue with me. Plus I am not the only one who's called BS, yet the attention is on me. Let that marinate for a bit here. Anyway status quo still does not change, relax, and let it go at agreeing to disagree. Because I don't care that you disagree, that's your right just as mine to disagree with you and I am fine with this. |
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Posted: 5/27/2023 10:14:41 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You need to breathe and sit down. When you attack the person and not their message, then it's really no reason to continue because they cannot articulate a mature response to either agree to disagree and move on, or have their own issues to contend with so your long winded post about me and not this discussion sums it up pretty well that this is getting personal to you. I am not going to back down on my position, you can either deal with this like an adult and stop derailing this thread any further, or have the decency to realize that I am not going to back down from this childish game of "ya-uh and not uh" game of back and forth. I suggest chilling out and let people have their opinions, and getting over your personal issue with me. Plus I am not the only one who's called BS, yet the attention is on me. Let that marinate for a bit here. Anyway status quo still does not change, relax, and let it go at agreeing to disagree. Because I don't care that you disagree, that's your right just as mine to disagree with you and I am fine with this. Projecting much? I rest my case just do not get another thread locked. |
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Posted: 5/27/2023 11:19:48 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Projecting much? I rest my case just do not get another thread locked. Are you doing what you accuse? Looks sure like it. If it gets locked then you have yourself to blame for it for taking it this far off the rails. |
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Posted: 5/28/2023 12:40:08 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yes, I might. Because when the SHTF, I have to have confidence in it. But it doesn't mean I would not take it to the range. If it performs well, it *MIGHT* get a second chance. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: If it was a bad primer in the round you'd safe it forever? Or what if it was a bad magazine? Yes, I might. Because when the SHTF, I have to have confidence in it. But it doesn't mean I would not take it to the range. If it performs well, it *MIGHT* get a second chance. How about a broken spring or extractor. You wouldn't just replace the part? |
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Posted: 5/28/2023 12:50:31 AM EDT
[#25]
I have been shooting my Glock 43 every month (some months multiple matches) for 4+ years in Glock GSSF matches and have never had a malfunction.
This is in addition to regular range use. Not one malfunction. |
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Posted: 5/28/2023 10:18:05 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Projecting much? I rest my case just do not get another thread locked. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: You need to breathe and sit down. When you attack the person and not their message, then it's really no reason to continue because they cannot articulate a mature response to either agree to disagree and move on, or have their own issues to contend with so your long winded post about me and not this discussion sums it up pretty well that this is getting personal to you. I am not going to back down on my position, you can either deal with this like an adult and stop derailing this thread any further, or have the decency to realize that I am not going to back down from this childish game of "ya-uh and not uh" game of back and forth. I suggest chilling out and let people have their opinions, and getting over your personal issue with me. Plus I am not the only one who's called BS, yet the attention is on me. Let that marinate for a bit here. Anyway status quo still does not change, relax, and let it go at agreeing to disagree. Because I don't care that you disagree, that's your right just as mine to disagree with you and I am fine with this. Projecting much? I rest my case just do not get another thread locked. Going forward, I’m just ignoring the Arizona Rifleman. He’s not here to have a technical discussion, he’s here to validate his opinion snd feelings. I gave him the benefit of the doubt early in the thread, tried to explain the difference from opinion vs. observable fact, snd after the quadruple-down it’s clear any attempt at discussion is pointless. |
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Posted: 5/28/2023 1:39:21 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Going forward, I’m just ignoring the Arizona Rifleman. He’s not here to have a technical discussion, he’s here to validate his opinion snd feelings. I gave him the benefit of the doubt early in the thread, tried to explain the difference from opinion vs. observable fact, snd after the quadruple-down it’s clear any attempt at discussion is pointless. Projecting the same then? You're not trying to have one either and you're here to validate your own narrative and ego which is emotional. meanwhile, no feelings here, just pure logic. And you did no such thing, you tried to force your will instead of having a meaningful discussion and being the adult to learn when there's a time to just agree to disagree and move along. I have been trying to teach you this and you still want to be emotional to protect your safe space. Anyway, I went shooting this morning to maintain my strengths and to work on my weaknesses without worrying about an internet squabble. Have you done the same? |
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Posted: 5/28/2023 1:43:54 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I have been shooting my Glock 43 every month (some months multiple matches) for 4+ years in Glock GSSF matches and have never had a malfunction. This is in addition to regular range use. Not one malfunction. That's impressive. Gun well lubed, all factory part? At GSSF do they all have a representative armorer from Glock there who inspects each pistol and swaps out parts if needed? I've never done one, and would like to go one day. I just do the monthly steel challenges here. |
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Posted: 5/28/2023 2:02:35 PM EDT
[#29]
Nope. G4 Glock 19 "Summer Special". 124 gr. +P HST or Gold Dots, never an issue.
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Posted: 5/28/2023 5:40:13 PM EDT
[#30]
I have two carry pistols: G26 and G42.
My G26 is a Gen3 I bought back in 2000. It has over 6,200 rounds through it. It has never malfunctioned in any way. It is my primary carry pistol and the only one that I feel completely comfortable trusting my life to. The G42 has had FTFs; not many, but it has had them. Most of these malfunctions were when it was new and like a good number of other early G42s, it did get sent back to Glock for work to correct these issues. I have about 2,400 rounds through it. I consider it reliable enough considering that I live a very low threat lifestyle, in a very low threat operating environment. But none-the-less, I only carry it when I run or ride my bike, or for very, very low risk environments such as family weddings or funerals. Its magazines all have the MagGuts conversion for 7 round capacity. I do not really like the .380Auto cartridge as a self-defense cartridge, but the G42 is a good deep concealment gun and also makes a very good companion to my G26 as it uses the same manual of arms, has the same sights, trigger, uses the same armorer's tool, uses the same cleaning jags, etc... For all these reasons, it makes sense to keep it as a backup, especially for when I travel. |
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Posted: 5/29/2023 1:46:13 AM EDT
[#31]
I did have a fail to feed one time on my XD9. Thought it was a dead round, let it sit for 10 secs, racked the slide, nothing in the chamber but a couple rounds in the magazine. Dropped the mag and checked the barrel for obstructions- was ok. Popped in another magazine and continued with no problems. Reloaded the suspect magazine and no problems. I've fired hundreds since and no more problems.
It could have been me limp-wristing the quick draw or a weak round not fully cycling the slide. I'm not a pro shooter, just do 50 rounds twice a month. If social security would pay extra for ammo, I'd shoot more often. |
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Posted: 6/2/2023 1:51:27 PM EDT
[#32]
I've had malfunctions when I tried some Hornady Critical Defense ammo years ago and stopped using it, every other ammo has been perfect. Honestly, I've never shot my actual carry gun enough to break a part, I put 5-600rds through it and call it good for carry use and then only shoot a mag or two a year through it.
I have an identical gun I practice with that'll hopefully show when things start wearing out. But the way things have been going the last few years I haven't been shooting enough to wear anything out  .
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Posted: 6/2/2023 3:12:07 PM EDT
[#33]
My duty gun (M&P 9) has had exactly 0 malfunctions in somewhere between 12k and 15k rounds. Steady diet of quality FMJ with some duty ammunition thrown in once a year all on the issued magazines. Mag springs and recoil spring get replaced every couple years or so. I keep it clean but use very minimal lubrication.
I'm of the opinion a quality striker fired 9mm handgun should have almost no issues outside of PM items like springs. Things like broken strikers or extractors should be very rare and at high round counts. |
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Posted: 6/3/2023 2:18:52 PM EDT
[#34]
I’ve been carrying a smith and Wesson csx for about a year now and am about 750ish rounds in on it and i have not experienced a single stoppage in that time
As far as how much people shoot, about 4 months ago I started building a range at my house and holy shit I’ve been shooting a lot. I figured it up while talking to a guy at work and I’ve shot at a minimum, 2500 rounds of 9mm since then. The bulk of that being put through my cz ts2 and about 500 of what’s through my csx. |
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